B4u-act

[earlycuyler]

And the disease model can be seen here.

Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting. and the treatment to. Worth a read. I feel it backs my assertion that they are irreparably broken humans that need to be removed from society.

 

[catzmeow]

And the disease model can be seen here.

Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting. and the treatment to. Worth a read. I feel it backs my assertion that they are irreparably broken humans that need to be removed from society.

We don't have a system of care for that anymore.

 

[yidnar]

Of course it is abnormal to be attracted to a child.

I agree.

Is is a mental illness to be attracted sexually to children?

No one has argued it isn't.

is evil a mental illness ??? it seems some people will not admit that evil exist .that the perp was not at fault because of his social and economic background, making the criminal the victim .

 

[catzmeow]

I wish we had a cure for terminal stupidity.

 

[Intense]

So can a serial killer (no pun intended). It doesn't change the element of mental illness.

I see what you're getting at and I suppose you are correct. I guess under my definition a person with a Mental illness must be medicated to live a "normal" life, but your point is taken......

I find myself at odds here with some.

I believe homosexuality is a choice, and I believe pedophilia is a choice. I have no idea why anyone would choose either, but people choose to do a lot of things I don't understand.

I know it's easier to believe people who target children can't help themselves, but I don't buy it, I think the truth is there are some monsters in the world who choose to be monsters.

What's next , suggesting rape is a mental illness?

The funny thing about addictions and Vises, is the probability of them taking over our lives. You lose control, and you risk becoming a slave to the desire. Your life is no longer your own. There are conditions that need to be met, no matter the cost. Remove Ethics, Value, Morality from your life, and it is anything goes. No matter who you are, no matter the addiction or vice, either you control it, or it controls you. Be it food, alcohol, drugs, deviant behavior, without purpose in your life, you are toast.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Homosexuality also appears likely to be a genetic abnormality and probably falls into the category of sexual fetish. However, it doesn't involve victimizing children, so most of us are too busy with our own lives to worry what other people do with their sex organs.

Your fascination with the subject is duly noted.

Now, could we talk about pedophilia, versus your fascination with the gays?

Is the cutting remark necessary?

Can we not have a conversation like adults without it getting personal?

I gave my opinion, and defended it.

I apologize if that in some way offended you.

Is it really this hard to stick to the stated topic of the thread as per the OP?

Seriously, if you want to talk about homosexuality as mental illness, start a thread. Most of us are here to talk about the subject of this thread, which is not "the gays".

And Lord forbid that someone uses a comparison based upon history......

 

[Intense]

Paraphilias

The clinical significance criteria were revised to clarify that, for Pedophilia, Voyeurism, Exhibitionism, and Frotteurism, if the person has acted on these urges, or the urges or sexual fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty, then by definition there is clinical significance. For Sexual Sadism, if the person has acted on these urges with a non-consenting person, or the urges, sexual fantasies, or behaviors cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty, then the clinical significance criterion is met. For the remaining Paraphilias, the clinical significance criterion is met if the behavior, sexual urges, or fantasies cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. Of course, to qualify for the specific diagnosis, the particular pattern of paraphilic arousal must also be present.
Summary of Text Changes from DSM-IV to DSM-IV-TR | psychiatry.org

 

[Scorpion]

Homosexuality fails to meet the criteria of a mental illness.

By your definition, so does the attraction to minors.

The attraction hurts no one, it is acting on that attraction that causes harm.

But you have stipulated that to you, the ATTRACTION is a mental illness, one I agree with.

So again I pose the question:

If it is possible to have a mental illness that causes a person to be attracted to a minor...is it equally possible for the attraction to the same sex to also be caused by a mental illness?​

No, it doesn't.

An attraction to children is harmful to the pedophile whether he acts on it or not.

The attraction is harmful to the child who was used in the commission of kiddie porn to stave off (in the pedophiles mind) the need to have physical contact with children.
Just because there is no physical contact does not mean a child is not harmed.

 

[catzmeow]

The funny thing about addictions and Vises, is the probability of them taking over our lives. You lose control, and you risk becoming a slave to the desire. Your life is no longer your own. There are conditions that need to be met, no matter the cost. Remove Ethics, Value, Morality from your life, and it is anything goes. No matter who you are, no matter the addiction or vice, either you control it, or it controls you. Be it food, alcohol, drugs, deviant behavior, without purpose in your life, you are toast.

People aren't pedophiles because the lack ethics, values, or morality. They're pedophiles because they are born that way. Ethics, values, etc. can only help them avoid acting on those innate impulses.

I strongly suspect that you didn't make a decision to be attracted to women. You just were. That's what it's like to be a pedophile, except the object of your attraction is forever forbidden to you, because it's a crime (and this should never change).

It's a brain malfunction.

 

[catzmeow]

Is the cutting remark necessary?

Can we not have a conversation like adults without it getting personal?

I gave my opinion, and defended it.

I apologize if that in some way offended you.

Is it really this hard to stick to the stated topic of the thread as per the OP?

Seriously, if you want to talk about homosexuality as mental illness, start a thread. Most of us are here to talk about the subject of this thread, which is not "the gays".

And Lord forbid that someone uses a comparison based upon history......

Is it a legitimate concern of yours that children will be deemed fair game for sex offenders because men are now legally allowed to bugger each other at will?

IF so, that's a fallacy known as slippery slope.

 

[Amelia]

The funny thing about addictions and Vises, is the probability of them taking over our lives. You lose control, and you risk becoming a slave to the desire. Your life is no longer your own. There are conditions that need to be met, no matter the cost. Remove Ethics, Value, Morality from your life, and it is anything goes. No matter who you are, no matter the addiction or vice, either you control it, or it controls you. Be it food, alcohol, drugs, deviant behavior, without purpose in your life, you are toast.

People aren't pedophiles because the lack ethics, values, or morality. They're pedophiles because they are born that way. Ethics, values, etc. can only help them avoid acting on those innate impulses.

I strongly suspect that you didn't make a decision to be attracted to women. You just were. That's what it's like to be a pedophile, except the object of your attraction is forever forbidden to you, because it's a crime (and this should never change).

It's a brain malfunction.

Do you believe all are born that way? I would guess "nurture" had a lot to do with it. When the victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves ....

 

[catzmeow]

The funny thing about addictions and Vises, is the probability of them taking over our lives. You lose control, and you risk becoming a slave to the desire. Your life is no longer your own. There are conditions that need to be met, no matter the cost. Remove Ethics, Value, Morality from your life, and it is anything goes. No matter who you are, no matter the addiction or vice, either you control it, or it controls you. Be it food, alcohol, drugs, deviant behavior, without purpose in your life, you are toast.

People aren't pedophiles because the lack ethics, values, or morality. They're pedophiles because they are born that way. Ethics, values, etc. can only help them avoid acting on those innate impulses.

I strongly suspect that you didn't make a decision to be attracted to women. You just were. That's what it's like to be a pedophile, except the object of your attraction is forever forbidden to you, because it's a crime (and this should never change).

It's a brain malfunction.

Do you believe all are born that way? I would guess "nurture" had a lot to do with it. When the victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves ....

You can guess that, but research has not substantiated this idea.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2082860

The hard part of this issue is that researchers have studied incarcerated child molesters, some of whom are pedophiles, and some who aren't (they were opportunistic criminals). Incarcerated child molesters were molested at only a slightly higher rate than non-molesters report (as a precentage of the population). So, while there may be a correlation, it probably isn't the causal factor. Other possible theories include childhood trauma, brain injury, and mental illness.

I tend to think it's an issue of brain wiring, just like a lot of paraphilias are, including homosexuality.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/09/pedophiles-born-that-way/#.UOzLs2_AeO4

http://www.science20.com/ptsd_navig...vidence_encouraging_brain_network_perspective

 

[AmyNation]

People aren't pedophiles because the lack ethics, values, or morality. They're pedophiles because they are born that way. Ethics, values, etc. can only help them avoid acting on those innate impulses.

I strongly suspect that you didn't make a decision to be attracted to women. You just were. That's what it's like to be a pedophile, except the object of your attraction is forever forbidden to you, because it's a crime (and this should never change).

It's a brain malfunction.

Do you believe all are born that way? I would guess "nurture" had a lot to do with it. When the victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves ....

You can guess that, but research has not substantiated this idea. Most pedophiles were not victims.

Ive seen studies before that claim that half of all pedophiles were sexually abused as children.

 

[cereal_killer]

The funny thing about addictions and Vises, is the probability of them taking over our lives. You lose control, and you risk becoming a slave to the desire. Your life is no longer your own. There are conditions that need to be met, no matter the cost. Remove Ethics, Value, Morality from your life, and it is anything goes. No matter who you are, no matter the addiction or vice, either you control it, or it controls you. Be it food, alcohol, drugs, deviant behavior, without purpose in your life, you are toast.

People aren't pedophiles because the lack ethics, values, or morality. They're pedophiles because they are born that way. Ethics, values, etc. can only help them avoid acting on those innate impulses.

I strongly suspect that you didn't make a decision to be attracted to women. You just were. That's what it's like to be a pedophile, except the object of your attraction is forever forbidden to you, because it's a crime (and this should never change).

It's a brain malfunction.

Do you believe all are born that way? I would guess "nurture" had a lot to do with it. When the victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves ....

There are exceptions to every rule.

 

[catzmeow]

Do you believe all are born that way? I would guess "nurture" had a lot to do with it. When the victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves ....

You can guess that, but research has not substantiated this idea. Most pedophiles were not victims.

Ive seen studies before that claim that half of all pedophiles were sexually abused as children.

Feel free to post a link to a study that makes this claim.

 

[earlycuyler]

People aren't pedophiles because the lack ethics, values, or morality. They're pedophiles because they are born that way. Ethics, values, etc. can only help them avoid acting on those innate impulses.

I strongly suspect that you didn't make a decision to be attracted to women. You just were. That's what it's like to be a pedophile, except the object of your attraction is forever forbidden to you, because it's a crime (and this should never change).

It's a brain malfunction.

Do you believe all are born that way? I would guess "nurture" had a lot to do with it. When the victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves ....

You can guess that, but research has not substantiated this idea.

Does sexual abuse in childhood cause pedophil... [Arch Sex Behav. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI

The hard part of this issue is that researchers have studied incarcerated child molesters, some of whom are pedophiles, and some who aren't (they were opportunistic criminals). Incarcerated child molesters were molested at only a slightly higher rate than non-molesters report (as a precentage of the population). So, while there may be a correlation, it probably isn't the causal factor. Other possible theories include childhood trauma, brain injury, and mental illness.

I tend to think it's an issue of brain wiring, just like a lot of paraphilias are, including homosexuality.

Pedophiles: born that way? : Gene Expression

Review - Pedophilia: Neuropsychological Evidence Encouraging A Brain Network Perspective

One thing though, and reserch be damned, and that is that no one knows they offended until they do it.

 

[catzmeow]

Do you believe all are born that way? I would guess "nurture" had a lot to do with it. When the victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves ....

You can guess that, but research has not substantiated this idea.

Does sexual abuse in childhood cause pedophil... [Arch Sex Behav. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI

The hard part of this issue is that researchers have studied incarcerated child molesters, some of whom are pedophiles, and some who aren't (they were opportunistic criminals). Incarcerated child molesters were molested at only a slightly higher rate than non-molesters report (as a precentage of the population). So, while there may be a correlation, it probably isn't the causal factor. Other possible theories include childhood trauma, brain injury, and mental illness.

I tend to think it's an issue of brain wiring, just like a lot of paraphilias are, including homosexuality.

Pedophiles: born that way? : Gene Expression

Review - Pedophilia: Neuropsychological Evidence Encouraging A Brain Network Perspective

One thing though, and reserch be damned, and that is that no one knows they offended until they do it.

That's the difference between a child molester and a pedophile. Not all, or even most, pedophiles commit sex offenses against children. Pedophilia is the attraction to children, child molesting is the criminal act. They are not one and the same.

Is pedophilia a product of nature or nurture? - thestar.com

http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/predator.htm

Understand...I am primarily concerned with preventing victimization of children. So, the goal should be to understand, through research, why this behavior occurs, so we can prevent it.

 

[AmyNation]

You can guess that, but research has not substantiated this idea. Most pedophiles were not victims.

Ive seen studies before that claim that half of all pedophiles were sexually abused as children.

Feel free to post a link to a study that makes this claim.

Study: Most female child molesters were victims of sexual abuse | UGA Today

BJRPYSCH | Mobile

Police Chief Magazine - View Article

 

[catzmeow]

Ive seen studies before that claim that half of all pedophiles were sexually abused as children.

Feel free to post a link to a study that makes this claim.

Study: Most female child molesters were victims of sexual abuse | UGA Today

BJRPYSCH | Mobile

Police Chief Magazine - View Article

child molester =/= pedophile. How many times do I have to explain the difference. Not all child molesters are pedophiles, most pedophiles aren't child molesters. Secondly, female child molesters represent less than 10% of all child molesters and findings with females can't be generalized to males, because they aren't the same.

Police Chief magazine article isn't a study. It's an opinion piece written by two cops.\

From the second link you posted:

Abstract

Background There is widespread belief in a ‘cycle’ of child sexual abuse, but little empirical evidence for this belief.
Aims To identify perpetrators of such abuse who had been victims of paedophilia and/or incest, in order to: ascertain whether subjects who had been victims become perpetrators of such abuse; compare characteristics of those who had and had not been victims; and review psychodynamic ideas thought to underlie the behaviour of perpetrators.
Method Retrospective clinical case note review of 843 subjects attending a specialist forensic psychotherapy centre.
Results Among 747 males the risk of being a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences. The overall rate of having been a victim was 35% for perpetrators and 11% for non-perpetrators. Of the 96 females, 43% had been victims but only one was a perpetrator. A high percentage of male subjects abused in childhood by a female relative became perpetrators. Having been a victim was a strong predictor of becoming a perpetrator, as was an index of parental loss in childhood.
Conclusions The data support the notion of a victim-to-victimiser cycle in a minority of male perpetrators but not among the female victims studied. Sexual abuse by a female in childhood may be a risk factor for a cycle of abuse in males.

The minority =/= 50%. I don't think you understood the articles you posted and how these articles correlate to pedophilia. These studies were of child molesters, not pedophiles. Again, there is a difference. Second, they don't support your contentions. I added bold/underline to the relevant sections of the abstract of the 2nd study you posted. Even in this study, only 35% of molesters were victimized, which means 65% weren't (almost twice as many as the amount who were victims).

 

[SFC Ollie]

So you can molest a child, but not be a pedophile? Really?