Assault weapons ban

[The Rabbi]

Your reasoning is that we should not have laws because criminals will not obey them, LOL.

Punish violent criminals = problem solved.

Liberals have defanged the criminal justice system.

And yet the US has more people in prison per capita than any other country, and is one of only a handful of countries to use the death penality.

What would be your model - Iran? Saudi Arabia?

It is irrelevant how many people are in jail.

 

[Snookie]

It is sorta amazing how the so called constitutional folks find reasons and quotations from over two hundred years ago to justify in their minds activities in the modern world. Shame they don't all have muskets too.

With that in mind...
Expalin to us why the 4th amendment should cover you cell phone conversations.

I dont care. I don't have a cell phone.

 

[Snookie]

Punish violent criminals = problem solved.

Liberals have defanged the criminal justice system.

And yet the US has more people in prison per capita than any other country, and is one of only a handful of countries to use the death penality.

What would be your model - Iran? Saudi Arabia?

It is irrelevant how many people are in jail.

It is to some people. Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

 

[Underhill]

Your reasoning is that we should not have laws because criminals will not obey them, LOL.

Punish violent criminals = problem solved.

Liberals have defanged the criminal justice system.

Seriously? Almost every law on the books has mandatory sentences far harsher than at anytime in US history.

Try and think about this for a minute.

We've had 7 robberies in my very rural area (2 counties with under 20k people in each) in the last 2 years. All were from gun shops or people with large collections. In each case between 50 and 200 guns were stolen. All the guns were legal prior to being stolen.

How do people think these criminals get their guns? Aside from organized crime, it's not some illegal importer bringing in Uzi's. They are generally stolen guns.

So all this talk about criminals following gun laws is nonsense. It's not about criminals, like it or not. It's about legal guns that end up in the hands of criminals. Making certain guns illegal means less of those guns stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals.

That is what these laws are about.

I am not anti gun and I'm not in favor of banning assault rifles (although I think 30 round clips are unnecessary). But I get sick of all the rhetoric. If there is going to be a discussion then it would be nice to have one based in reality.

 

[M14 Shooter]

....It's about legal guns that end up in the hands of criminals. Making certain guns illegal means less of those guns stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals.
That is what these laws are about.

Of all of the ideas we've heard from the White House and the Dems in Congress since the Newtown shooting, which will stop criminals from stealing guns from the law abiding and then using them for crime?
Be sure to describe how said laws will do this.

 

[Snookie]

....It's about legal guns that end up in the hands of criminals. Making certain guns illegal means less of those guns stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals.
That is what these laws are about.

Of all of the ideas we've heard from the White House and the Dems in Congress since the Newtown shooting, which will stop criminals from stealing guns from the law abiding and then using them for crime?
Be sure to describe how said laws will do this.

Dancing with the straw man.

 

[Underhill]

....It's about legal guns that end up in the hands of criminals. Making certain guns illegal means less of those guns stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals.
That is what these laws are about.

Of all of the ideas we've heard from the White House and the Dems in Congress since the Newtown shooting, which will stop criminals from stealing guns from the law abiding and then using them for crime?
Be sure to describe how said laws will do this.

As snookie so aptly pointed out, that is not what I said.

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

 

[M14 Shooter]

....It's about legal guns that end up in the hands of criminals. Making certain guns illegal means less of those guns stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals.
That is what these laws are about.

Of all of the ideas we've heard from the White House and the Dems in Congress since the Newtown shooting, which will stop criminals from stealing guns from the law abiding and then using them for crime?
Be sure to describe how said laws will do this.

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

But here -will- be AKs in homes and gun shops. - lots and lots and lots of them - as the existing guns will never be taken away.

And further, if someone cannot buy a particular sort of gun, he is likely to buy a gun of some other kind -- and thus, the number of guns availabe in homes and gun shops will not change.

So... how does your idea hold any merit?

 

[Underhill]

Of all of the ideas we've heard from the White House and the Dems in Congress since the Newtown shooting, which will stop criminals from stealing guns from the law abiding and then using them for crime?
Be sure to describe how said laws will do this.

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

But here -will- be AKs in homes and gun shops. - lots and lots and lots of them - as the existing guns will never be taken away.

And further, if someone cannot buy a particular sort of gun, he is likely to buy a gun of some other kind -- and thus, the number of guns availabe in homes and gun shops will not change.

So... how does your idea hold any merit?

Did I say it did?

In point of fact I said I am against trying to ban assault rifles for the very reason you laid out.

But I am sick of hearing this crap about "Liberals think the criminals are going to obey the new laws!"

No, they really don't. And it's not completely absurd. Over time (decades) it could have an impact. But it's just not worth the headache. Better to focus on measures that might actually make a difference.

For example, we need to get rid of the regulations that essentially deball federal agencies and don't allow them to enforce current laws.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

But here -will- be AKs in homes and gun shops. - lots and lots and lots of them - as the existing guns will never be taken away.

And further, if someone cannot buy a particular sort of gun, he is likely to buy a gun of some other kind -- and thus, the number of guns availabe in homes and gun shops will not change.

So... how does your idea hold any merit?

Did I say it did?

In point of fact I said I am against trying to ban assault rifles for the very reason you laid out.

But I am sick of hearing this crap about "Liberals think the criminals are going to obey the new laws!"

The gun control laws they propose only work if the criminals obey them.

 

[The Rabbi]

And yet the US has more people in prison per capita than any other country, and is one of only a handful of countries to use the death penality.

What would be your model - Iran? Saudi Arabia?

It is irrelevant how many people are in jail.

It is to some people. Just because you say so doesn't make it so.

No, it actually is irrelevant, regardless of what people think. If we need tough laws for real crimes then it doesn't matter how many people are already in jail.

 

[The Rabbi]

....It's about legal guns that end up in the hands of criminals. Making certain guns illegal means less of those guns stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals.
That is what these laws are about.

Of all of the ideas we've heard from the White House and the Dems in Congress since the Newtown shooting, which will stop criminals from stealing guns from the law abiding and then using them for crime?
Be sure to describe how said laws will do this.

As snookie so aptly pointed out, that is not what I said.

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

Except no one, almost no one, is proposing to outlaw guns already in existence. And if they did, criminals and many others would continue to own and acquire them.
There are plenty of full auto guns out there illegally, despite their being effectively banned 80 years ago.
So stopping production now of AR's etc would do nothing about the 30M or so already in circulation. Stopping sales of hi cap mags will do nothing because there are about a gazillion hi cap mags in circulation. Actually it will do something: it will drive up prices, making them attractive targets for theft.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Of all of the ideas we've heard from the White House and the Dems in Congress since the Newtown shooting, which will stop criminals from stealing guns from the law abiding and then using them for crime?
Be sure to describe how said laws will do this.

As snookie so aptly pointed out, that is not what I said.

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

Except no one, almost no one, is proposing to outlaw guns already in existence. And if they did, criminals and many others would continue to own and acquire them.
There are plenty of full auto guns out there illegally, despite their being effectively banned 80 years ago.
So stopping production now of AR's etc would do nothing about the 30M or so already in circulation. Stopping sales of hi cap mags will do nothing because there are about a gazillion hi cap mags in circulation. Actually it will do something: it will drive up prices, making them attractive targets for theft.

I will also add, creating new gun control laws will not stop new gun crimes. Doing something for the sake of doing something does not work. Let's do something that will work. Like get rid of gun free zones.

 

[Snookie]

Of all of the ideas we've heard from the White House and the Dems in Congress since the Newtown shooting, which will stop criminals from stealing guns from the law abiding and then using them for crime?
Be sure to describe how said laws will do this.

As snookie so aptly pointed out, that is not what I said.

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

Except no one, almost no one, is proposing to outlaw guns already in existence. And if they did, criminals and many others would continue to own and acquire them.
There are plenty of full auto guns out there illegally, despite their being effectively banned 80 years ago.
So stopping production now of AR's etc would do nothing about the 30M or so already in circulation. Stopping sales of hi cap mags will do nothing because there are about a gazillion hi cap mags in circulation. Actually it will do something: it will drive up prices, making them attractive targets for theft.

People should not own expensive cars. They might get stolen. lol.

 

[M14 Shooter]

As snookie so aptly pointed out, that is not what I said.

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

Except no one, almost no one, is proposing to outlaw guns already in existence. And if they did, criminals and many others would continue to own and acquire them.
There are plenty of full auto guns out there illegally, despite their being effectively banned 80 years ago.
So stopping production now of AR's etc would do nothing about the 30M or so already in circulation. Stopping sales of hi cap mags will do nothing because there are about a gazillion hi cap mags in circulation. Actually it will do something: it will drive up prices, making them attractive targets for theft.

I will also add, creating new gun control laws will not stop new gun crimes.

Case in point, none of the proposed ideas for new legislation would have stopped the Newtown shooting had it been in place at the time, and none will stop another, should it be put in place.

But then, gun control doesnt have anything to do with public safety, so no one should be surprised about that.

 

[The Rabbi]

As snookie so aptly pointed out, that is not what I said.

I said, taking away a gun or gun type from legal owners means those guns will not fall into the hands of thieves when they rob you.

If there are no AK's in the home or gun shop, then there are no AK's to steal from said home or gun shop. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

Except no one, almost no one, is proposing to outlaw guns already in existence. And if they did, criminals and many others would continue to own and acquire them.
There are plenty of full auto guns out there illegally, despite their being effectively banned 80 years ago.
So stopping production now of AR's etc would do nothing about the 30M or so already in circulation. Stopping sales of hi cap mags will do nothing because there are about a gazillion hi cap mags in circulation. Actually it will do something: it will drive up prices, making them attractive targets for theft.

People should not own expensive cars. They might get stolen. lol.

Actually everyone should own expensive cars. And the gov't should tax rich people to subsidize expensive cars for poor people.
Right?

 

[varelse]

Yeah and 65% of them involve alcohol. But it's all about hating guns so......

Alcoholics should be denied guns.

It's already illegal for them to buy them.
Next.

[citation needed]

 

[blackhawk]

Suppose this new assault weapon ban is passed and put into law what then? It does nothing to deal with the weapons already out there. What about weapons coming across the border? Our border is weakly secured at best now you have a ban here and that will only increase the flow across border anyone who traffics in guns will know business will be on the upswing unless there is a major push for tight border security which I highly doubt we will have a bigger problem coming across the border than we already do.

 

[Saigon]

Suppose this new assault weapon ban is passed and put into law what then? It does nothing to deal with the weapons already out there. What about weapons coming across the border? Our border is weakly secured at best now you have a ban here and that will only increase the flow across border anyone who traffics in guns will know business will be on the upswing unless there is a major push for tight border security which I highly doubt we will have a bigger problem coming across the border than we already do.

Agreed.

A lot more needs to be done to get guns out of the hands of gang members and so forth. I assume if assault weapons are illegal, they can also be confiscated & seized, so that might make a difference over time, but it would need a big push by police to do so.

 

[varelse]

That assumes they know where the illegal weapons are- that is, that they are aware of stockpiles and supply lines held by criminal organizations and persons- in which case, they should be raiding them already, as they're already illegally owned/acquired/transported