Ask the Evangelical!

[5stringJeff]

Actually in the show, the actor playing the devil used the quote from the Bible but being nterested in what Jesus actually said , it got me thinking.

Huh... interesting. Who would the devil forgive? No one, IMO.

 

[dilloduck]

Huh... interesting. Who would the devil forgive? No one, IMO.

I'm talking about Biblical context here-- still seems that Jesus would be all for forgiving the crimes or sins committed out of ingorance.

 

[5stringJeff]

I'm talking about Biblical context here-- still seems that Jesus would be all for forgiving the crimes or sins committed out of ingorance.

Not necessarily. The book of Romans, chapters 1-3, discuss the guilt of all mankind, both those ignorant of God's law and those aware of it. Our guilt does not stem from our knowledge (or lack thereof) of God and His precepts; it stems from our sinful nature and sinful acts. The holiness of God demands that sin is punished - but the mercy of God provides that punishment in His Son. It is left for us only to believe.

 

[dilloduck]

Not necessarily. The book of Romans, chapters 1-3, discuss the guilt of all mankind, both those ignorant of God's law and those aware of it. Our guilt does not stem from our knowledge (or lack thereof) of God and His precepts; it stems from our sinful nature and sinful acts. The holiness of God demands that sin is punished - but the mercy of God provides that punishment in His Son. It is left for us only to believe.

Sounds like Jesus asked God to ease up on the ignorant to me.

 

[5stringJeff]

Sounds like Jesus asked God to ease up on the ignorant to me.

Strictly speaking, Jesus was talking about the soldiers who were crucifying Him.

 

[dilloduck]

Strictly speaking, Jesus was talking about the soldiers who were crucifying Him.

Well they didnt believe Jesus was they "way" yet Jesus told God to forgive them.

 

[freeandfun1]

Well they didnt believe Jesus was they "way" yet Jesus told God to forgive them.

The point was that they didn't know they were killing the Messiah. They didn't know that they were killing their own way to salvation. They didn't know they were FULFILLING the prophecies of the Old Testament. They were ignorant of this as Christ as the Messiah had not yet been introduced to the masses.

In essense, Christ once again was showing that HE is the way. That through Him we are able to obtain Grace. He was showing us that by praying to God and asking God to forgive them at His request.

 

[Nienna]

If you're saying the old testament is invalid or anachronistic, I will tend to agree.

But I want to finish reading it for both the historical perspective, and to substantiate my arguments.


A

The Old Testament was written to point out sin, to show that all people sin, even the great ones, like King David. This sets the stage for the Christ. The OT shows us that we have a need for salvation, then the NT shows us how to receive this salvation. That's the link between the two, and why the OT isn't completely irrelevent.

 

[Nienna]

I may be crazy for doing this, but here goes...

I believe in the creation as stated in the Bible. I was taught evolution in school, but after examining scientific evidence, I came to the conclusion that the Bible has it correct. Now, if anyone wants to ask questions about this point of view, I will do my best to answer. Just be patient with me; I'm not a scientist, just a mom!

 

[dilloduck]

The point was that they didn't know they were killing the Messiah. They didn't know that they were killing their own way to salvation. They didn't know they were FULFILLING the prophecies of the Old Testament. They were ignorant of this as Christ as the Messiah had not yet been introduced to the masses.

In essense, Christ once again was showing that HE is the way. That through Him we are able to obtain Grace. He was showing us that by praying to God and asking God to forgive them at His request.

no offense but how do you know this ? and Christ had not yet been introduced into the masses? and why didn't Jesus just forgive these dudes himself instead of telling his father to do it?

 

[Said1]

no offense but how do you know this ? and Christ had not yet been introduced into the masses? and why didn't Jesus just forgive these dudes himself instead of telling his father to do it?

That's who he's talking to when he says it, free isn't guessing.

 

[dilloduck]

That's who he's talking to when he says it, free isn't guessing.

No--the angry crowd is who is referring to. He is talking to his father.

 

[Said1]

No--the angry crowd is who is referring to. He is talking to his father.

Isn't that what I just said?

 

[dilloduck]

Isn't that what I just said?

ok let me try again-----Jesus is telling God to forgive the angry crowd because they didn't know what they were doing. It would appear that Jesus had asked God to give the ignorant some slack in this case----why?

 

[Said1]

ok let me try again-----Jesus is telling God to forgive the angry crowd because they didn't know what they were doing. It would appear that Jesus had asked God to give the ignorant some slack in this case----why?

To me it sounds more like he's asking him not to judge them, the way you wouldn't laugh at someone's bad typos because of horrible vision. I guess you could interpret that as cutting them slack, but to me it's a little different, in a way it's like saying they still have a chance to accept God ect, ect.

 

[dilloduck]

To me it sounds more like he's asking him not to judge them, the way you wouldn't laugh at someone's bad typos because of horrible vision. I guess you could interpret that as cutting them slack, but to me it's a little different, in a way it's like saying they still have a chance to accept God ect, ect.

That's cool----it just affirms my belief that Jesus intended us all to be more forgiving than we are and that we are "judged" according to how we "judge" others. What's the stuff about Jesus being "presented to the masses " tho ?

 

[freeandfun1]

no offense but how do you know this ? and Christ had not yet been introduced into the masses? and why didn't Jesus just forgive these dudes himself instead of telling his father to do it?

I know it because I have been reading the NT from front to back. I am currently just finishing up with Romans.

Christ is the vessel, but real forgiveness comes from God Himself.

 

[freeandfun1]

That's cool----it just affirms my belief that Jesus intended us all to be more forgiving than we are and that we are "judged" according to how we "judge" others. What's the stuff about Jesus being "presented to the masses " tho ?

The Apostles had not yet preached about salvation through Christ. That is what it means. Since Christ had not yet died on the cross, God's plan had not been completed. It wasn't until after Christ died and rose again that the Apostles began delivering the message of salvation through Christ.

Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

We are judged according to God's judgement. No more, no less. He has the final say - period.

 

[dilloduck]

I know it because I have been reading the NT from front to back. I am currently just finishing up with Romans.

Christ is the vessel, but real forgiveness comes from God Himself.

I've read it too several times but have never seen any other reference to this statement by Jesus. I would think that an actual statement made by Jesus himself would carry some pretty heavy weight in relationship to other "inspired" writings.-----presented to the masses?

 

[freeandfun1]

I've read it too several times but have never seen any other reference to this statement by Jesus. I would think that an actual statement made by Jesus himself would carry some pretty heavy weight in relationship to other "inspired" writings.-----presented to the masses?

Never seen what statement?