Ask the Evangelical!

[dilloduck]

Never seen what statement?

jesus' statement

 

[freeandfun1]

Luke 23:33-36

33 And when they came to the place which is called The Skull [Latin: Calvary; Hebrew Golgotha], there they crucified Him, and [along with] the criminals, one on the right and one on the left.

34 And Jesus prayed, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And they divided His garments and distributed them by casting lots for them. [Pslams 22:18.]

35 Now the people stood by [calmly and leisurely] watching; but the rulers scoffed and sneered (turned up their noses) at Him, saying, He rescued others [from death]; let Him now rescue Himself, if He is the Chrsit (the Messiah) fo God, His Chosen One!

36 The soldiers also ridiculed and made sport of Him, coming up and offering Him vinegar (a sour wine mixed with water) [Psalms 69:21.]

37 And saying, If you are the King of the Jews, save (rescue) Yourself [from death].

The references to Psalms are references to Prophecies which must be carried out to fulfill God's plan. Chirt was asking God to forgive the soldiers and the others because since the prophecies had not been carried out completely, it was truly unknown/unprovable that He was the TRUE Messiah.

Throughout the Gospels, Jesus makes reference to things being done as they must be to fulfill the prophecies. This was nothing different. The soldiers had to to cast lots for his clothes, offer Him vinegar, etc., Judas had to take the silver he was given for turning Christ in and the high-Priests had to use it to by a potters field as that is what was prophetized. There are many events that had to be done to PROVE that Christ wast the Messiah. So He was asking God to forgive them as they were just carrying out what HAD to be done to PROVE he is The Messiah.

 

[dilloduck]

Luke 23:33-36

33 And when they came to the place which is called The Skull [Latin: Calvary; Hebrew Golgotha], there they crucified Him, and [along with] the criminals, one on the right and one on the left.

34 And Jesus prayed, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And they divided His garments and distributed them by casting lots for them. [Pslams 22:18.]

35 Now the people stood by [calmly and leisurely] watching; but the rulers scoffed and sneered (turned up their noses) at Him, saying, He rescued others [from death]; let Him now rescue Himself, if He is the Chrsit (the Messiah) fo God, His Chosen One!

36 The soldiers also ridiculed and made sport of Him, coming up and offering Him vinegar (a sour wine mixed with water) [Psalms 69:21.]

37 And saying, If you are the King of the Jews, save (rescue) Yourself [from death].

The references to Psalms are references to Prophecies which must be carried out to fulfill God's plan. Chirt was asking God to forgive the soldiers and the others because since the prophecies had not been carried out completely, it was truly unknown/unprovable that He was the TRUE Messiah.

Throughout the Gospels, Jesus makes reference to things being done as they must be to fulfill the prophecies. This was nothing different. The soldiers had to to cast lots for his clothes, offer Him vinegar, etc., Judas had to take the silver he was given for turning Christ in and the high-Priests had to use it to by a potters field as that is what was prophetized. There are many events that had to be done to PROVE that Christ wast the Messiah. So He was asking God to forgive them as they were just carrying out what HAD to be done to PROVE he is The Messiah.

Wouldn't God know this already?

 

[freeandfun1]

Wouldn't God know this already?

You know Dillo, now you are just being an ass. Go argue with yourself. If you don't want to understand the purpose of the Bible, then I am not going to waste my time trying to teach it to you.

The Bible was written for MAN not for God. And again, as I indicated before, this once again was showing that salvation is available through Christ.

You claim you have read the NT. I doubt it. As if you did, you would know that Christ is the one that pleads our cases before God.

Romans 8:33-34

33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect [whjen it is ] God Who justifies [that is, Who puts us in right relation to Himself? Who shall come forward and accuse or impeach those whom God has chosen? Will God, Who acquits us?]

34 Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died or rather Who was raised from dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?

Romans 8:34 is just one reference to Christ interceding for us during our judgement.

 

[dilloduck]

You know Dillo, now you are just being an ass. Go argue with yourself. If you don't want to understand the purpose of the Bible, then I am not going to waste my time trying to teach it to you.

Honest questions Free--no offense intended at all--why can't you help those who ask questions instead of turning them away as if they are stupid ?

 

[freeandfun1]

Honest questions Free--no offense intended at all--why can't you help those who ask questions instead of turning them away as if they are stupid ?

Because you're not putting any thought into anything before you post your next question. It is as if you have a plan to frustrate. You know what your next question will be and you don't care what is written to try and teach. You don't think beyond your nose. I know you are smarter than that, so I can only surmise then that your intentions are not sincere.

BTW: Re-read the post above your last, as I had edited it while you were replying.

 

[Bonnie]

That's cool----it just affirms my belief that Jesus intended us all to be more forgiving than we are and that we are "judged" according to how we "judge" others. What's the stuff about Jesus being "presented to the masses " tho ?

I think so too. Judge the sin not the sinner.

 

[manu1959]

The point was that they didn't know they were killing the Messiah. They didn't know that they were killing their own way to salvation. They didn't know they were FULFILLING the prophecies of the Old Testament. They were ignorant of this as Christ as the Messiah had not yet been introduced to the masses.

In essense, Christ once again was showing that HE is the way. That through Him we are able to obtain Grace. He was showing us that by praying to God and asking God to forgive them at His request.

now wait just a minute....christ had to die on the cross for our sins....and without these solidiers he could not have done so....it would seem to me that christ, saying what he did would demonstrrate that christ was unaware of gods plan for him....

 

[Nienna]

now wait just a minute....christ had to die on the cross for our sins....and without these solidiers he could not have done so....it would seem to me that christ, saying what he did would demonstrrate that christ was unaware of gods plan for him....

How so? Just wondering which words make you think He was unaware.

 

[Nienna]

no offense but how do you know this ? and Christ had not yet been introduced into the masses? and why didn't Jesus just forgive these dudes himself instead of telling his father to do it?

Jesus did forgive them; God is the only one capable of pardoning sin. Jesus and the Father are one. When Jesus asked forgiveness for the crucifiers out loud, he was simply giving another example of how a godly person is to live his life, by forgiving even those who hurt you. He was demonstrating the lengths to which God will go to reconcile His children to Him.

 

[manu1959]

How so? Just wondering which words make you think He was unaware.

if christ was aware that it was gods plan for him to die on the cross for our sins....then he would not have asked god to forgive the solidiers and would not have asked god why he was being forsaken.....

so.....it would follow the christ was unaware of gods plan...

 

[manu1959]

i have a question for you all.......

at my bible studies for dummies class i asked......

where are christ's writtings?

they all just stared at me.

 

[Nienna]

if christ was aware that it was gods plan for him to die on the cross for our sins....then he would not have asked god to forgive the solidiers and would not have asked god why he was being forsaken.....

so.....it would follow the christ was unaware of gods plan...

Christ told the disciples many times what the plan was before he got anywhere close to the situation. He told them that he would have to die, and then he would rise again on the third day. Since he laid out the plan to them, it would appear that he knew about it.

See above post for why Jesus asked God's forgiveness.

The definition of sin is a separation, a turning away from God, leaving God's will and following our own opposite desires. The sin of all mankind was laid upon Jesus as he died. Thus, he felt separated or "forsaken" as he was dying. It makes me cry... pure agony of the soul.

 

[manu1959]

Christ told the disciples many times what the plan was before he got anywhere close to the situation. He told them that he would have to die, and then he would rise again on the third day. Since he laid out the plan to them, it would appear that he knew about it.

See above post for why Jesus asked God's forgiveness.

The definition of sin is a separation, a turning away from God, leaving God's will and following our own opposite desires. The sin of all mankind was laid upon Jesus as he died. Thus, he felt separated or "forsaken" as he was dying. It makes me cry... pure agony of the soul.

fair enough.....wording always seemd odd to me though....bible writtings are second third hand accounts written years after so i guess that explains it as well

 

[freeandfun1]

if christ was aware that it was gods plan for him to die on the cross for our sins....then he would not have asked god to forgive the solidiers and would not have asked god why he was being forsaken.....

so.....it would follow the christ was unaware of gods plan...

No it wouldn't. I demonstrates that even Christ, when in the flesh, has the same feelings and thoughts as humans (those in the flesh). He knew God had not forsaken Him, yet He asked about it. He was tempted by Satan, yet He withstood the temptations. Christ was human, yet He was not.

 

[Nienna]

i have a question for you all.......

at my bible studies for dummies class i asked......

where are christ's writtings?

they all just stared at me.

Christ didn't lock himself in a room to write wise words. He preached and taught and healed and loved. And died for us and rose again. He was busy living the perfect life. Others were capable of the menial task of writing it all down.

 

[manu1959]

Not at all true. The Gospels are first hand accounts written by the Apostles that were present. Where do you get thatthey were second or third hand accounts written years later?

i am well aware who wrote the gospels and when they were written...i did not use the term gospel in my statement

 

[dilloduck]

Because you're not putting any thought into anything before you post your next question. It is as if you have a plan to frustrate. You know what your next question will be and you don't care what is written to try and teach. You don't think beyond your nose. I know you are smarter than that, so I can only surmise then that your intentions are not sincere.

BTW: Re-read the post above your last, as I had edited it while you were replying.

This statement attributed to Jesus raised some serious questions for me so I posed it in the "ask the Evangelical" thread. Challenge my sincerity if you wish. Let some one else who has an answer reply and save yourself from the frustation of not being able to answer me. Are you above trying to explain your belief to others ? Even an " I'm not sure right now" would have been a better reply than casting aspersion on my motives.

 

[freeandfun1]

This statement attributed to Jesus raised some serious questions for me so I posed it in the "ask the Evangelical" thread. Challenge my sincerity if you wish. Let some one else who has an answer reply and save yourself from the frustation of not being able to answer me. Are you above trying to explain your belief to others ? Even an " I'm not sure right now" would have been a better reply than casting aspersion on my motives.

Dillo, be honest. I spent 10 minutes preparing the first reply and you replied to it in less than 30 seconds. That lends to me believing you didn't read my reply with any intent of understanding it.

I have answered you, you just are not trying to understand. Why should I say, "I'm not sure right now" when I am sure and when I wrote a thought out reply? Can't you see why I have my misgivings? I answer you, yet you claim I haven't.

 

[dilloduck]

Dillo, be honest. I spent 10 minutes preparing the first reply and you replied to it in less than 30 seconds. That lends to me believing you didn't read my reply with any intent of understanding it.

I have answered you, you just are not trying to understand. Why should I say, "I'm not sure right now" when I am sure and when I wrote a thought out reply? Can't you see why I have my misgivings? I answer you, yet you claim I haven't.

Please quit accusing me of having some big hidden agenda here--I appreciate the time you spent trying to answer me the first time but it just didn't quite answer my question so I tried to make my question more precise.
You mean if I don't "get it" the first time that means I'm just a stubborn ass who's trying to just mess with your head ? That's a pretty big leap in logic.