Ask the Evangelical!

[5stringJeff]

This may have been asked already, but i haven't been around lately, and did not feel like reading all six billion questions, but here are mine.

1) Do evangelicals believe that the world is going to end soon?

2) If so, what are the direct circumstances that would cause this to happen?

1. While the Bible doesn't give a date, many evangelicals do believe that the end of the world (i.e. Christ's return) will happen soon, perhaps in the next 10-100 years. Then again, many do not. The Bible does say that no one but God knows the exact date, but there are signs which we can use to determine whether the time is near.

2. The direct circumstance would be the return of Christ. The preceding events would be things like the ones found here in Matthew 24.

 

[CivilLiberty]

This blog post and this essay (which I've linked to before) should be able to define the difference for you. As far as percentages, I would have to Google some stats for you.

I have read these links you posted earlier, and I think I do have a good grasp of the differences. Though I haven't found good/reliable stats on percentage breakdowns.

Of course, I haven't focused *that* hard on it, and will when I get to the chapter on analyzing America's religious demographics.


My only personal interactions with fundamentalists have been characterized by a certain hatred and anger that makes me wonder if they aren't following the anti-christ.

A

 

[dilloduck]

Perhaps you just evoke that response in folks.

 

[CivilLiberty]

Perhaps you just evoke that response in folks.

No, mostly them demanding that I "be saved" and "have faith" and harassing me in a most angry tone as I walked down the street.

In some of the incidents I wasn't involved personally. In one case they were attacking my parents.

In another, they were attacking an artist friend of mine.

Then there are these people:

http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/shepard_monument.html
http://www.angloisrael.com/


Just as the right likes to hold up tree hugging PETA kooks, the left points to that jackass Fred Phelps, and those like him, for "proof" that religion has gone awry.

I'm trying to get an idea of moderate/mainstream values, and where the "fringe" sets in. My hope is to find "harmony in moderation". Or something.


A

 

[5stringJeff]

No, mostly them demanding that I "be saved" and "have faith" and harassing me in a most angry tone as I walked down the street.

In some of the incidents I wasn't involved personally. In one case they were attacking my parents.

In another, they were attacking an artist friend of mine.

Then there are these people:

http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/shepard_monument.html
http://www.angloisrael.com/


Just as the right likes to hold up tree hugging PETA kooks, the left points to that jackass Fred Phelps, and those like him, for "proof" that religion has gone awry.

I'm trying to get an idea of moderate/mainstream values, and where the "fringe" sets in. My hope is to find "harmony in moderation". Or something.


A

I won't go to the link... I went there once and was extremely depressed that a church, claiming to represent Christ, would be so filled with hatred. You will not find any support of the God-Hates-Fags movement in the evangelical church - and not much even in fundamentalist circles.

 

[Hobbit]

Angry fundamentalists irritate me because it's why my non-Christian friends are so hostile towards religion. My policy is to "keep it real." I just act like a real person and a friend towards them. I admit my wrongdoings and don't act high and mighty at them. When I think they'll be accepting, I start mentioning God, and I do it in a way in which I ask lots of questions. Usually, I don't have to go to this step, though. By the time I'd start asking them, they actually approach me. Here's where the system is broken.

Many churches, most notably fundamentalists, use this system to "welcome" new believers.

Believe - First, they have to believe what you believe. Progress can't be made before this.

Behave - Once they start believing, they then have to behave a certain way and follow the church's rules.

Belong - After you behave correctly, you can become an official part of the church group.

Befriend - After you belong to the group, the people will start allowing themselves to be associated with you and allow you around their kids.

This system doesn't make it easy and certainly isn't that attractive. Here's how my church works.

Befriend - We go out and make non-Christian friends right and left. We always try to have more Christian friends, though, so we don't slide. I have friends that are very hostile towards Christianity, but they like me as a person, so they're tolerant, if not accepting, of my views.

Belong - We bring our friends to church functions. If they've been once, they belong and we treat them as such. We even let them be in charge of things. A Buddhist student in his first year in Chi Alpha (campus Christian group) got to be in charge of the money on the spring break ski trip.

Behave - It's a bit reversed. All of us behave a certain way to set an example. Eventually, our non-Christian friends will begin behaving this way, even if it's only at church functions.

Believe - After being with us long enough, many will realize that there's something wonderful that we have, but that they don't. That's when we explain salvation.

Not everyone goes through all four steps, but we befriend them anyway.

 

[CivilLiberty]

I won't go to the link... I went there once and was extremely depressed that a church, claiming to represent Christ, would be so filled with hatred. You will not find any support of the God-Hates-Fags movement in the evangelical church - and not much even in fundamentalist circles.

I'm glad to hear that.

They are a noisy bunch though, and they, and those like them, tarnish the entire Christian religion.

And yet, Christians seem to be silent on the issue. It would be good for some Christian groups to denounce these hate mongers in a very public, and vocal way.


A

 

[Shattered]

I'm glad to hear that.

They are a noisy bunch though, and they, and those like them, tarnish the entire Christian religion.

And yet, Christians seem to be silent on the issue. It would be good for some Christian groups to denounce these hate mongers in a very public, and vocal way.


A

I wasn't under the impression that *true* Christians "denounced" anyone. Ever.

 

[Bonnie]

I'm glad to hear that.

They are a noisy bunch though, and they, and those like them, tarnish the entire Christian religion.

And yet, Christians seem to be silent on the issue. It would be good for some Christian groups to denounce these hate mongers in a very public, and vocal way.


A

Yet lets be thankful it's always very small groups of people. Christianity denounces hate like that on a daily basis in a very vocal, and difinitive way, just read the bible.

 

[CivilLiberty]

Angry fundamentalists irritate me because it's why my non-Christian friends are so hostile towards religion.

Indeed - I think this is the "core motivator" of the secularist movement.

It is unfortunate.

I consider myself Unitarian/Buddhist/Secular. However, through my girlfriend who attends her Methodist church (and is a Sunday school teacher and in the choir), I see an important aspect of church society: the sense of community. A "social grouping" that I do consider to be a valuable, positive impact on society at large.

Science, being a search for truth, is constantly nibbling away at the more superstitious aspects of the bible. Secularists are interested in these truths rather than the adhering to the "unprovable" or the fanciful.

Where does this leave Christ? Can the teachings of Christ have a place in secularism?

Perhaps. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the bible, removing the supernatural, and leaving only the teachings of Christ. Jefferson was also Unitarian.

I haven't gotten to the new testament yet, and am still muddling through the old testament. Later this year, when I'm done with my study, I'll be able to comment more.

Andy

 

[CivilLiberty]

Yet lets be thankful it's always very small groups of people. Christianity denounces hate like that on a daily basis in a very vocal, and difinitive way, just read the bible.

I am reading the bible right now, Bonnie. The NIV. I'm still in the old testament. There's alot of "hate" and "intolerance" in the old testament. I'm thinking I may stop and jump to, and focus on, the new testament. But I do want a strong understanding of the old testament.



A

 

[Bonnie]

I have read these links you posted earlier, and I think I do have a good grasp of the differences. Though I haven't found good/reliable stats on percentage breakdowns.

Of course, I haven't focused *that* hard on it, and will when I get to the chapter on analyzing America's religious demographics.


My only personal interactions with fundamentalists have been characterized by a certain hatred and anger that makes me wonder if they aren't following the anti-christ.

A

You know I keep hearing form the non-believers about these horror stories of Christians spewing hate on street corners and demanding conversion and I can honestly say throughout my entire life I have never once even met a religious person that came minutely close to that, and for a good portion of life I have been in the company of very religious people, be it in politics, churches, rallies, marches, etc. IM not saying they don't exist, but I find it hard to believe they are everywhere and in vast numbers. I can't help but wonder if in some way these depictions are just convenient arguments or excuses to not believe? I have also been in the company of some very horrid people who practiced Satan worship and truly they are the ones I would fear more than some religious zealot.

All the religious people I have known or met in my life were very peaceful, quiet, happy, centered people, who would love to see more conversion, but not because they hate non religious, but simply because they HOPE for everyone to have the same happiness they do. When you are happy you want that for other people, you don't hate and you don't judge.

 

[Bonnie]

I am reading the bible right now, Bonnie. The NIV. I'm still in the old testament. There's alot of "hate" and "intolerance" in the old testament. I'm thinking I may stop and jump to, and focus on, the new testament. But I do want a strong understanding of the old testament.



A

The new testament is most certainly the book that contains Christs words, and most of them are very simple messages of hope, love, and peace. I think that might be a better place to be for you. The Old testament is mostly books of others not related to the apostles or Christ. Which is why the ten commandments were essentially encapsulated into one which you already know.

 

[5stringJeff]

I wasn't under the impression that *true* Christians "denounced" anyone. Ever.

I think Andy meant that Christians should denounce the doctrine - which many evangelicals do, though it's usually in church, and not on the evening news.

 

[5stringJeff]

Indeed - I think this is the "core motivator" of the secularist movement.

It is unfortunate.

I consider myself Unitarian/Buddhist/Secular. However, through my girlfriend who attends her Methodist church (and is a Sunday school teacher and in the choir), I see an important aspect of church society: the sense of community. A "social grouping" that I do consider to be a valuable, positive impact on society at large.

Science, being a search for truth, is constantly nibbling away at the more superstitious aspects of the bible. Secularists are interested in these truths rather than the adhering to the "unprovable" or the fanciful.

Where does this leave Christ? Can the teachings of Christ have a place in secularism?

Perhaps. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the bible, removing the supernatural, and leaving only the teachings of Christ. Jefferson was also Unitarian.

I haven't gotten to the new testament yet, and am still muddling through the old testament. Later this year, when I'm done with my study, I'll be able to comment more.

Andy

The problem with that is that many of Christ's teachings were supernatural/spiritual. Yeah, there are a lot of moral edicts that Christ taught (the Golden rule, turning the other cheek, etc.), but He also taught things like, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through Me;" "Unless a man is born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven;" "You will see the Son of Man [referring to Himself] coming in the clouds of heaven," etc.

I'm not sure where you are in the OT. I would suggest that you alternate, perhaps reading an OT book, then an NT book. What is the purpose of your study, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[5stringJeff]

The new testament is most certainly the book that contains Christs words, and most of them are very simple messages of hope, love, and peace. I think that might be a better place to be for you. The Old testament is mostly books of others not related to the apostles or Christ. Which is why the ten commandments were essentially encapsulated into one which you already know.

While Christ may not be a central character in the OT, there's lots of great stuff in there. Hidden in the Chronicles, for instance, are stories of faith, victory, and mercy; the Psalms are full of man's praises to God; the prophetic books contain lots of prophecies about Christ. Don't shortchange yourself by never reading the OT.

 

[Bonnie]

While Christ may not be a central character in the OT, there's lots of great stuff in there. Hidden in the Chronicles, for instance, are stories of faith, victory, and mercy; the Psalms are full of man's praises to God; the prophetic books contain lots of prophecies about Christ. Don't shortchange yourself by never reading the OT.

I agree with you and have read some of, but I think for Andy right now it may be a little too fire and brimstone. The OT does contain many inspiring passages.

 

[CivilLiberty]

I think Andy meant that Christians should denounce the doctrine - which many evangelicals do, though it's usually in church, and not on the evening news.

Yes, that is what I meant.


Andy

 

[CivilLiberty]

You know I keep hearing form the non-believers about these horror stories of Christians spewing hate on street corners and demanding conversion and I can honestly say throughout my entire life I have never once even met a religious person that came minutely close to that,

They're on the street corners here in Hollywood *all the time*.

I also remember them when I was in High school and College - those folks were in my (everyone's) face, demanding we "have faith".

My parents hosted a booth at some new-age spiritual conference, and a trio of rabid fundamentalist xtians ATTACKED my parents. The incident was so unwarranted and traumatizing, my father came down with a severe illness that put him in the hospital.

Bonnie, since you're a Christian, it's unlikely you'll be a "target" of fundamentalist hatred. As a non-Christian, I'll tell you those people are everywhere.

A

 

[CivilLiberty]

The new testament is most certainly the book that contains Christs words, and most of them are very simple messages of hope, love, and peace. I think that might be a better place to be for you. The Old testament is mostly books of others not related to the apostles or Christ. Which is why the ten commandments were essentially encapsulated into one which you already know.

If you're saying the old testament is invalid or anachronistic, I will tend to agree.

But I want to finish reading it for both the historical perspective, and to substantiate my arguments.


A