Ask a Buddhist

[Newby]

There's a reason I'm a Buddhist and you are not. The Buddha's teachings make complete sense to me. They totally baffle you. Christ's message makes you happy. Enjoy.

It has nothing to do with religion one way or the other. I could just never relate to calling my father's passing fortunate under such circumstances, that would be a totally foreign concept to me. I can see where some may see it that way if they felt that the person who passed would no longer suffer, but I could never see it as being fortunate, that's all.

Suicide is a tragedy. Tragedy can turn into fortune. There waa NOTHING in the Catholic teachings that I was raised in that prepared me to deal with my father's suicide. My father's death was a turning point in my life. One year later I went to my first ten day silent meditation retreat.

Buddhism had the answers I was seeking.

I wasn't critisizing or questioning your experiences with your father's suicide, Sky. I was simply saying that I cannot relate to your feelings or your outlook on it, that's all. Good things can come from bad experiences all the time, and it's great whenever that happens, I guess I just never looked at the bad things as fortunate before, even though they may have resulted in something positive happening. In my outlook, the good things could have just as easily happened without the bad, so I don't give meaning to something bad happening. Our backgrounds and expereinces are obviously very different, so we see things in different ways. We all do what we must in order to survive, make sense of things and get by.

 

[Sky Dancer]

But you accept that life is suffering and that those who believe it is not are delusional.

I call that blind faith. The very fact that you can call someone delusional simply because they do not accept your "truth" or as you say "Noble Truth" and that you can still claim you take nothing on blind faith demonstrates a schism between your beliefs and your actions.

I never mentioned meditation did I. And i do not think Buddhists have the patent on any type of meditation.

I haven't called you or anyone else delusional. This isn't blind faith. I've tested the Four Noble Truths and from my experience they work.

So does meditation. I never said Buddhists had the patent on meditation. Buddhist mediation has been around for 2500 years.

I came into this path for the meditation. It was many years before I took refuge vows and called myself a Buddhist.

You can think whatever you like Skull Pilot. We all have freedom of thought and speech.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So suffering is one of your universal truths?

Tell me then do you believe that a person who feels he has never suffered in his life to be delusional? Or have you been deluded that life is suffering?

That particular Buddhist "truth" is as much crap as the Catholic "truth" of original sin.

Yes. A person who thinks he hasn't suffered is delusional. There is the suffering of birth, the suffering of aging, the suffering of aickness and finally the suffering of death.

There is the suffering of not getting what you want and of getting what you don't want.

There is the suffering of change, you get what you want but it ultimately doesn't last.

So I was suffering when I was being born even if I have no memory of the experience?

Tell me if I have no memory of an experience and choose not to call it suffering, who the fuck is Buddha to tell me I'm wrong?

And I do not believe aging is suffering. There is a grace and wisdom that comes with experience and maturity. The aging process nor indeed life itself is not defined by fleeting temporary states of discomfort as you would have us believe.

And death need not entail suffering.

Do you really believe that you not getting your selfish wants filled is suffering? You can want and wish all you want and then sit an whine that you are suffering because those things never magically appeared or you can go out and get them yourself. You suffer because you choose to suffer. There is no other reason.

You will notice that you certainly did say that someone who thinks he does not suffer is delusional.

You may have edited that part out but I have it right here. Care to refute that?

 

[editec]

We disagree.

We do?

About what?

The meaning of the word hypocrite?

The meaning of the word dogma?

You either live life as you say you will or you justify why you mislead yourself.

Not sure what that means.

That type of intellectual dishonesty is hypocrisy.

No, intellectual dishonesty is not hypocracy either.

Intellectual dishonesty is a different KIND of lie.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yes. A person who thinks he hasn't suffered is delusional. There is the suffering of birth, the suffering of aging, the suffering of aickness and finally the suffering of death.

There is the suffering of not getting what you want and of getting what you don't want.

There is the suffering of change, you get what you want but it ultimately doesn't last.

So I was suffering when I was being born even if I have no memory of the experience?

Tell me if I have no memory of an experience and choose not to call it suffering, who the fuck is Buddha to tell me I'm wrong?

And I do not believe aging is suffering. There is a grace and wisdom that comes with experience and maturity. The aging process nor indeed life itself is not defined by fleeting temporary states of discomfort as you would have us believe.

And death need not entail suffering.

Do you really believe that you not getting your selfish wants filled is suffering? You can want and wish all you want and then sit an whine that you are suffering because those things never magically appeared or you can go out and get them yourself. You suffer because you choose to suffer. There is no other reason.

You will notice that you certainly did say that someone who thinks he does not suffer is delusional.

You may have edited that part out but I have it right here. What does Buddhism teach about lying?

I edited it the post for a reason. We talk alot about delusion in Buddhism and I was sure you would misunderstand that if I kept it in my post. If you want to call me a liar for editing my post, have at it.

It's your mind.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So I was suffering when I was being born even if I have no memory of the experience?

Tell me if I have no memory of an experience and choose not to call it suffering, who the fuck is Buddha to tell me I'm wrong?

And I do not believe aging is suffering. There is a grace and wisdom that comes with experience and maturity. The aging process nor indeed life itself is not defined by fleeting temporary states of discomfort as you would have us believe.

And death need not entail suffering.

Do you really believe that you not getting your selfish wants filled is suffering? You can want and wish all you want and then sit an whine that you are suffering because those things never magically appeared or you can go out and get them yourself. You suffer because you choose to suffer. There is no other reason.

You will notice that you certainly did say that someone who thinks he does not suffer is delusional.

You may have edited that part out but I have it right here. What does Buddhism teach about lying?

I edited it out for a reason. If you want to call me a liar for editing my post have at it.

So because you erased it negates the fact that you did indeed express your blind belief that people who do not believe in the "truth" of suffering are delusional?

This is the bullshit i am talking about.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You will notice that you certainly did say that someone who thinks he does not suffer is delusional.

You may have edited that part out but I have it right here. What does Buddhism teach about lying?

I edited it out for a reason. If you want to call me a liar for editing my post have at it.

So because you erased it negates the fact that you did indeed express your blind belief that people who do not believe in the "truth" of suffering are delusional?

This is the bullshit i am talking about.

I erased it because I knew you wouldn't understand it. Calm down.

There are many Buddhist teachings about delusion. If you had a sincere interest in learning I would talk more about them. You seem to have all the answers already and are not open to Buddhism. That's fine with me. Enjoy your atheism. Be at peace.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I edited it out for a reason. If you want to call me a liar for editing my post have at it.

So because you erased it negates the fact that you did indeed express your blind belief that people who do not believe in the "truth" of suffering are delusional?

This is the bullshit i am talking about.

I erased it because I knew you wouldn't understand it. Calm down.

There are many Buddhist teachings about delusion. If you had a sincere interest in learning I would talk more about that. You seem to have all the answers already and are not open to Buddhism. That's fine with me. Enjoy your atheism. Be at peace.

Ah yes the intellectual superiority of the "enlightened"

Bullshit. You either believe that crap or you don't. So which is it?

Are people who deny the so called truth of suffering delusional or not? Or do you just hold yourself above those who do not join the flock and blindly follow your so called noble truths?

 

[Sky Dancer]

So because you erased it negates the fact that you did indeed express your blind belief that people who do not believe in the "truth" of suffering are delusional?

This is the bullshit i am talking about.

I erased it because I knew you wouldn't understand it. Calm down.

There are many Buddhist teachings about delusion. If you had a sincere interest in learning I would talk more about that. You seem to have all the answers already and are not open to Buddhism. That's fine with me. Enjoy your atheism. Be at peace.

Ah yes the intellectual superiority of the "enlightened"

Bullshit. You either believe that crap or you don't. So which is it?

Are people who deny the so called truth of suffering delusional or not? Or do you just hold yourself above those who do not join the flock and blindly follow your so called noble truths?

Skull Pilot--

What is it you want out of this conversation? It seems to be going nowhere.

 

[Hister]

Hister

That statement about karma being something that goes with you into the next life came from a Buddhist teaching I attended. We aren't told we have to believe anything as gospel.
We are offered teachings and enjoined to try them out and see what fits. It's not as though someone makes up the answers. The answers from the teachers generally come from years of study and experience in meditation.

We talk about karma alot and we ask many questions about it. The teachings are presented as a dialogue and we debate various points.

So in other words, karma is a made up concept. Got it. It's because I've always felt that rebirth is a very likely possibility, but my study of Buddhism so far isn't much different than other religions, i.e. everything is basically just made up.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I erased it because I knew you wouldn't understand it. Calm down.

There are many Buddhist teachings about delusion. If you had a sincere interest in learning I would talk more about that. You seem to have all the answers already and are not open to Buddhism. That's fine with me. Enjoy your atheism. Be at peace.

Ah yes the intellectual superiority of the "enlightened"

Bullshit. You either believe that crap or you don't. So which is it?

Are people who deny the so called truth of suffering delusional or not? Or do you just hold yourself above those who do not join the flock and blindly follow your so called noble truths?

Skull Pilot--

What is it you want out of this conversation? It seems to be going nowhere.

Sorry for not bleating.

Religion, or philosophies based on this type of bullshit dogma and blind faith are all the same as are their sheep.

You hold conflicting views and have no congruency between thoughts and actions and the sheep of all religions constantly try to rationalize their blind faith and acceptance of the word of another as "truth" by retreating into the teachings of others rather than taking a hard look at why their thoughts and actions are out of sync.

How does the rational mind resolve this?

That question does have an answer but in this discussion it is probably rhetorical.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hister

That statement about karma being something that goes with you into the next life came from a Buddhist teaching I attended. We aren't told we have to believe anything as gospel.
We are offered teachings and enjoined to try them out and see what fits. It's not as though someone makes up the answers. The answers from the teachers generally come from years of study and experience in meditation.

We talk about karma alot and we ask many questions about it. The teachings are presented as a dialogue and we debate various points.

So in other words, karma is a made up concept. Got it. It's because I've always felt that rebirth is a very likely possibility, but my study of Buddhism so far isn't much different than other religions, i.e. everything is basically just made up.

What do you mean by everything is 'made up'?

Karma is considered a natural law. The law of cause and effect. Action/reaction.

 

[Hister]

Hister

That statement about karma being something that goes with you into the next life came from a Buddhist teaching I attended. We aren't told we have to believe anything as gospel.
We are offered teachings and enjoined to try them out and see what fits. It's not as though someone makes up the answers. The answers from the teachers generally come from years of study and experience in meditation.

We talk about karma alot and we ask many questions about it. The teachings are presented as a dialogue and we debate various points.

So in other words, karma is a made up concept. Got it. It's because I've always felt that rebirth is a very likely possibility, but my study of Buddhism so far isn't much different than other religions, i.e. everything is basically just made up.

What do you mean by everything is 'made up'?

Karma is considered a natural law. The law of cause and effect. Action/reaction.

What I'm asking is where did they get this "natural law"? Is it an observed fact? Is it something that someone made up out of thin air? Just decided one day, hey howz about if we...

 

[Sky Dancer]

So in other words, karma is a made up concept. Got it. It's because I've always felt that rebirth is a very likely possibility, but my study of Buddhism so far isn't much different than other religions, i.e. everything is basically just made up.

What do you mean by everything is 'made up'?

Karma is considered a natural law. The law of cause and effect. Action/reaction.

What I'm asking is where did they get this "natural law"? Is it an observed fact? Is it something that someone made up out of thin air? Just decided one day, hey howz about if we...

It can be observed in nature, that is why it is called a natural law. Actions have consequences. If you plant an acorn, you will get an oak tree. You won't get an oak by planting apple seeds. The law of actions having consequences didn't come out of the air. We can live our lives and observe it all around us.

Most religions have some version of karma, they just might call it something else.

 

[Madeline]

Hister, do you have any questions about Buddism? That is, after all, the purpose of this thread. If you just wanna berate people with beliefs, start your own damned thread.

 

[Hister]

What do you mean by everything is 'made up'?

Karma is considered a natural law. The law of cause and effect. Action/reaction.

What I'm asking is where did they get this "natural law"? Is it an observed fact? Is it something that someone made up out of thin air? Just decided one day, hey howz about if we...

It can be observed in nature, that is why it is called a natural law. Actions have consequences. If you plant an acorn, you will get an oak tree. You won't get an oak by planting apple seeds. The law of actions having consequences didn't come out of the air. We can live our lives and observe it all around us.

Most religions have some version of karma, they just might call it something else.

So you're saying reborn karma is an observed thing? Dunno 'bout that. By whom? i've never observed that, and don't know anyone who has.

Madeline, it's July, time to change your pad.

 

[mystic]

Hi Sky Dancer! Thank you for giving this oppourtunity. I haven't had a chance to speak with many buddhists.

I've never heard of that book. It might interest you to know that Buddhism discusses rebirth but rarely reincarnation.

They're different. Reincarantion is the idea that a real self, a personality reincarnates again.

Rebirth is the consciousness, and karma goes with you. Not your 'self' as a personality.

Buddhism pokes holes in the idea of an inherently existing 'self'.

Can you elaborate on this? I always thought the hindu and buddhist conception of reincarnation were similar? I believe in reincarnation simply because it makes sense to me. That substantial growth takes a lot more then one lifetime to achieve.
How would you consider the personality self to be different from the consciousness and that you retain one but not the other? Could we compare it to the conscious and the unconscious mind? I'm confused by this because I think I identify with my consciousness as being part of my self. That it is in fact part of my personality. But maybe that's because I listen to it too much.

Second question (probably not as confusing..lol): How do you meditate? On a word, a chant, an image? Or are you in fact, just emptying the mind? Which I find extremely hard to do. Seems much easier to at least give the mind one thing to focus on.

 

[eots]

I just thought it would be fun for me to stay on a topic that I actually know something about. I've been attending Buddhist retreats since the early 1980's.

Any questions about Buddhism? If I don't know the answer I'll tell you I don't.

DOES YOURE BUDDA APPEAR ON TOAST AND STAINS AND SUCH LIKE JESUS DOES?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPo411ysueM]YouTube - Face of Jesus appears in toast[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMKhLBE1zSw&feature=related]YouTube - Jesus appears on ashtray after party in Australia[/ame]

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hi Sky Dancer! Thank you for giving this oppourtunity. I haven't had a chance to speak with many buddhists.

I've never heard of that book. It might interest you to know that Buddhism discusses rebirth but rarely reincarnation.

They're different. Reincarantion is the idea that a real self, a personality reincarnates again.

Rebirth is the consciousness, and karma goes with you. Not your 'self' as a personality.

Buddhism pokes holes in the idea of an inherently existing 'self'.

Can you elaborate on this? I always thought the hindu and buddhist conception of reincarnation were similar? I believe in reincarnation simply because it makes sense to me. That substantial growth takes a lot more then one lifetime to achieve.
How would you consider the personality self to be different from the consciousness and that you retain one but not the other? Could we compare it to the conscious and the unconscious mind? I'm confused by this because I think I identify with my consciousness as being part of my self. That it is in fact part of my personality. But maybe that's because I listen to it too much.

Second question (probably not as confusing..lol): How do you meditate? On a word, a chant, an image? Or are you in fact, just emptying the mind? Which I find extremely hard to do. Seems much easier to at least give the mind one thing to focus on.

Hi Mystic,

There are many ways to meditate. The first one I encountered uses mindfulness of the breath as a place to come home to. In the beginning, as you have noticed it helps to give the mind one thing to focus on.

Then it's possible to open up the field of the senses further, to include body sensations, sounds, sights, smells, and thought itself, (or rather mindfulness of thinking). I have some experience with using mantra and visualization too. There are also mediations that are subject contemplations such as "what is the difference between love and attachment?" That's the kind of meditation where we engage the thinking mind, and we give it something to do, such as contemplating the subjecy. We always follow contemplation with resting or relaxing the mind.

There are thoughts, and there is awareness or a knowing of thoughts. We might call this awareness consciousness. At the same time, there is awareness of hearing, awareness of seeing, awareness of sensing we call this consciousness too. Most of the time we are walking around living our lives we are seeing, hearing, thinking etc but we are acting automatically. We aren't taking the time to become self-knowing. That's the function of medtation.

As we slow down and meditate, we become aware of a continuity of awareness moment to moment. We experience awareness as free. Sensations, come and go, thoughts come and go, but awareness doesn't go anywhere. It's always present, we just have to train to recognize it.

Once we open to this spaciouis quality of awareness itself, we rest in that. So we are no longer aware of some thing, we are just open and aware moment to moment.

Most of us have to train many lifetimes. Whatever meditation practice happens in this life as we train, it is that practice that goes with us into the next life.

I hope I haven't confused you further.

sky

 

[Hister]

So sky, what about reborn karma, who's observed that? Empirical evidence?