Ask a Buddhist

[Hister]

If a crocodile has a hold on your leg and is dragging you out to the deep part of the water to drown you then eat you, can you shoot it? Or can you only try to shoo it away?

 

[Sky Dancer]

If a crocodile has a hold on your leg and is dragging you out to the deep part of the water to drown you then eat you, can you shoot it? Or can you only try to shoo it away?

You can shoot it.

There would be karma accumulated for killing it. It's hard to get through life without killing. That's the nature of suffering.

These are the kinds of questions Buddhists ask our teachers. We debate these topics a lot. It's never a black and white answer.

Usually, the question concerns motivation.

There is what an ordinary person might do and what a bodhisattva might do and what a buddha would do.

 

[Hister]

If a crocodile has a hold on your leg and is dragging you out to the deep part of the water to drown you then eat you, can you shoot it? Or can you only try to shoo it away?

You can shoot it.

Actually, I've been reading "There's more to dying than death, a buddhist perspective" by lama hookham. Aside from the overtly religious-sect aspect of buddhism which I dislike (a lot of seemingly pointless rituals and stuff), it has some glaring holes with respect to re-incarnation, which I've always been interested in. But then again, I'm not finished the book, lol.

 

[Sky Dancer]

If a crocodile has a hold on your leg and is dragging you out to the deep part of the water to drown you then eat you, can you shoot it? Or can you only try to shoo it away?

You can shoot it.

Actually, I've been reading "There's more to dying than death, a buddhist perspective" by lama hookham. Aside from the overtly religious-sect aspect of buddhism which I dislike (a lot of seemingly pointless rituals and stuff), it has some glaring holes with respect to re-incarnation, which I've always been interested in. But then again, I'm not finished the book, lol.

I've never heard of that book. It might interest you to know that Buddhism discusses rebirth but rarely reincarnation.

They're different. Reincarantion is the idea that a real self, a personality reincarnates again.

Rebirth is the consciousness, and karma goes with you. Not your 'self' as a personality.

Buddhism pokes holes in the idea of an inherently existing 'self'.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I take a vow with the intention not to kill and I try to live as harmlessly as possible.

Intentions and roads to hell come to mind.

It's just more religious rationalizing not the acknowledgment of any "truth"

It's the truth of suffering.

So suffering is one of your universal truths?

Tell me then do you believe that a person who feels he has never suffered in his life to be delusional? Or have you been deluded that life is suffering?

That particular Buddhist "truth" is as much crap as the Catholic "truth" of original sin.

 

[editec]

The you willingly utter a vow you know you will not fulfill.

That is not acknowledging any truth. At least be intellectually honest and say that you try to live causing as little harm as possible.

I would have no issue with that, but the whole vow not to kill is bullshit plain and simple. The fact that you can justify willingly making that vow while knowing the "truth" that you will break that vow by merely living your life is an example of the religious dogma you so deny exists in Buddhism.

I take a vow with the intention not to kill and I try to live as harmlessly as possible.

Intentions and roads to hell come to mind.

It's just more religious rationalizing not the acknowledgment of any "truth"

Skull, taking a vow to TRY to do something that you know you cannot live up to isn't hypocracy.

Hypocracy is saying (or promising) one thing and knowing full that you don't believewhat you are saying (or promising) and having no intention whatever of even trying living up to it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I take a vow with the intention not to kill and I try to live as harmlessly as possible.

Intentions and roads to hell come to mind.

It's just more religious rationalizing not the acknowledgment of any "truth"

Skull, taking a vow to TRY to do something that you know you cannot live up to isn't hypocracy.

Hypocracy is saying (or promising) one thing and knowing full that you don't believewhat you are saying (or promising) and having no intention whatever of even trying living up to it.

That is not what she said.

She said Buddhists take a vow not to kill.

Then she qualified that remark by saying killing is unavoidable. A religion that requires a vow not to kill but then acknowledges the utter impossibility of keeping that vow is an example of dogmatic hypocrisy. Those who participate in said unfulfillable vow are also guilty of a measure of that hypocrisy.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Intentions and roads to hell come to mind.

It's just more religious rationalizing not the acknowledgment of any "truth"

It's the truth of suffering.

So suffering is one of your universal truths?

Tell me then do you believe that a person who feels he has never suffered in his life to be delusional? Or have you been deluded that life is suffering?

That particular Buddhist "truth" is as much crap as the Catholic "truth" of original sin.

The truth of suffering. There is the suffering of birth, the suffering of aging, the suffering of aickness and finally the suffering of death.

There is the suffering of not getting what you want and of getting what you don't want.

There is the suffering of change, you get what you want but it ultimately doesn't last.

All samsaric existence is essentiallly unsatisfactory.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's the truth of suffering.

So suffering is one of your universal truths?

Tell me then do you believe that a person who feels he has never suffered in his life to be delusional? Or have you been deluded that life is suffering?

That particular Buddhist "truth" is as much crap as the Catholic "truth" of original sin.

Yes. A person who thinks he hasn't suffered is delusional. There is the suffering of birth, the suffering of aging, the suffering of aickness and finally the suffering of death.

There is the suffering of not getting what you want and of getting what you don't want.

There is the suffering of change, you get what you want but it ultimately doesn't last.

So I was suffering when I was being born even if I have no memory of the experience?

Tell me if I have no memory of an experience and choose not to call it suffering, who the fuck is Buddha to tell me I'm wrong?

And I do not believe aging is suffering. There is a grace and wisdom that comes with experience and maturity. The aging process nor indeed life itself is not defined by fleeting temporary states of discomfort as you would have us believe.

And death need not entail suffering.

Do you really believe that you not getting your selfish wants filled is suffering? You can want and wish all you want and then sit an whine that you are suffering because those things never magically appeared or you can go out and get them yourself. You suffer because you choose to suffer. There is no other reason.

 

[Hister]

Who decided that karma goes with you when you die? Did someone just make that up?

 

[Newby]

So suffering is one of your universal truths?

Tell me then do you believe that a person who feels he has never suffered in his life to be delusional? Or have you been deluded that life is suffering?

That particular Buddhist "truth" is as much crap as the Catholic "truth" of original sin.

Yes. A person who thinks he hasn't suffered is delusional. There is the suffering of birth, the suffering of aging, the suffering of aickness and finally the suffering of death.

There is the suffering of not getting what you want and of getting what you don't want.

There is the suffering of change, you get what you want but it ultimately doesn't last.

So I was suffering when I was being born even if I have no memory of the experience?

Tell me if I have no memory of an experience and choose not to call it suffering, who the fuck is Buddha to tell me I'm wrong?

And I do not believe aging is suffering. There is a grace and wisdom that comes with experience and maturity. The aging process nor indeed life itself is not defined by fleeting temporary states of discomfort as you would have us believe.

And death need not entail suffering.

Do you really believe that you not getting your selfish wants filled is suffering? You can want and wish all you want and then sit an whine that you are suffering because those things never magically appeared or you can go out and get them yourself. You suffer because you choose to suffer. There is no other reason.

I agree, Skull, it's all about your state of mind. You can choose to be miserable over something or you can chose not too. I find it easier to look at everything I have been blessed with and be thankful that I have what I have whenever I'm feeling as though life is making me suffer. I'd rather be optimistic than dwell on whatever is not going right at the moment. If I did that, every moment would be a cause for being miserable, and who wants to live like that?

 

[editec]

Intentions and roads to hell come to mind.

It's just more religious rationalizing not the acknowledgment of any "truth"

Skull, taking a vow to TRY to do something that you know you cannot live up to isn't hypocracy.

Hypocracy is saying (or promising) one thing and knowing full that you don't believewhat you are saying (or promising) and having no intention whatever of even trying living up to it.

That is not what she said.

Spare us your literalist obtusity.

She said Buddhists take a vow not to kill.

Then she qualified that remark by saying killing is unavoidable.

Which does NOT make her a hypocrite, it merely makes her someone who didn't think she needed to explain the bleedin OBVIOUS to us.

A religion that requires a vow not to kill but then acknowledges the utter impossibility of keeping that vow is an example of dogmatic hypocrisy.

No it's not.

If a man's reach cannot exceed his grasp, then what's a heaven for?​

Ever hear that adage before?

What do you think it means?

Those who participate in said unfulfillable vow are also guilty of a measure of that hypocrisy.

That's an absurd misreading of the spirit of the word, champ.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Yes. A person who thinks he hasn't suffered is delusional. There is the suffering of birth, the suffering of aging, the suffering of aickness and finally the suffering of death.

There is the suffering of not getting what you want and of getting what you don't want.

There is the suffering of change, you get what you want but it ultimately doesn't last.

So I was suffering when I was being born even if I have no memory of the experience?

Tell me if I have no memory of an experience and choose not to call it suffering, who the fuck is Buddha to tell me I'm wrong?

And I do not believe aging is suffering. There is a grace and wisdom that comes with experience and maturity. The aging process nor indeed life itself is not defined by fleeting temporary states of discomfort as you would have us believe.

And death need not entail suffering.

Do you really believe that you not getting your selfish wants filled is suffering? You can want and wish all you want and then sit an whine that you are suffering because those things never magically appeared or you can go out and get them yourself. You suffer because you choose to suffer. There is no other reason.

I agree, Skull, it's all about your state of mind. You can choose to be miserable over something or you can chose not too. I find it easier to look at everything I have been blessed with and be thankful that I have what I have whenever I'm feeling as though life is making me suffer. I'd rather be optimistic than dwell on whatever is not going right at the moment. If I did that, every moment would be a cause for being miserable, and who wants to live like that?

That's why it is so great that there are so many paths of spiritual practice to choose from.

My father committed suicide in 1981. It was excrutiatingly painful. I was open to the teachings that life is suffering, that was the truth of my experience. It was the truth of my fathers experience.

I feel very fortunate now that I had that experience because it opened my heart and mind to my path of spiritual practice.

 

[Newby]

So I was suffering when I was being born even if I have no memory of the experience?

Tell me if I have no memory of an experience and choose not to call it suffering, who the fuck is Buddha to tell me I'm wrong?

And I do not believe aging is suffering. There is a grace and wisdom that comes with experience and maturity. The aging process nor indeed life itself is not defined by fleeting temporary states of discomfort as you would have us believe.

And death need not entail suffering.

Do you really believe that you not getting your selfish wants filled is suffering? You can want and wish all you want and then sit an whine that you are suffering because those things never magically appeared or you can go out and get them yourself. You suffer because you choose to suffer. There is no other reason.

I agree, Skull, it's all about your state of mind. You can choose to be miserable over something or you can chose not too. I find it easier to look at everything I have been blessed with and be thankful that I have what I have whenever I'm feeling as though life is making me suffer. I'd rather be optimistic than dwell on whatever is not going right at the moment. If I did that, every moment would be a cause for being miserable, and who wants to live like that?

That's why it is so great that there are so many paths of spiritual practice to choose from.

My father committed suicide in 1981. It was excrutiating;y painful. I was completely open to the teachings that life is suffering.

I feel very fortunate now that I had that experience because it opened my heart and mind.

Not everyone is so fortunate to have such a painful experience early in life.

You would call dealing with your father comitting suicide a 'fortunate experience'?

 

[Sky Dancer]

I agree, Skull, it's all about your state of mind. You can choose to be miserable over something or you can chose not too. I find it easier to look at everything I have been blessed with and be thankful that I have what I have whenever I'm feeling as though life is making me suffer. I'd rather be optimistic than dwell on whatever is not going right at the moment. If I did that, every moment would be a cause for being miserable, and who wants to live like that?

That's why it is so great that there are so many paths of spiritual practice to choose from.

My father committed suicide in 1981. It was excrutiating;y painful. I was completely open to the teachings that life is suffering.

I feel very fortunate now that I had that experience because it opened my heart and mind.

Not everyone is so fortunate to have such a painful experience early in life.

You would call dealing with your father comitting suicide a 'fortunate experience'?

I do now because I really had to grow and change. That pain caused me to take up the path of meditation.

 

[editec]

I agree, Skull, it's all about your state of mind. You can choose to be miserable over something or you can chose not too. I find it easier to look at everything I have been blessed with and be thankful that I have what I have whenever I'm feeling as though life is making me suffer. I'd rather be optimistic than dwell on whatever is not going right at the moment. If I did that, every moment would be a cause for being miserable, and who wants to live like that?

That's why it is so great that there are so many paths of spiritual practice to choose from.

My father committed suicide in 1981. It was excrutiating;y painful. I was completely open to the teachings that life is suffering.

I feel very fortunate now that I had that experience because it opened my heart and mind.

Not everyone is so fortunate to have such a painful experience early in life.

You would call dealing with your father comitting suicide a 'fortunate experience'?

Sometimes, that which OTHER PEOPLE don't survive makes us stronger, too.

 

[Newby]

That's why it is so great that there are so many paths of spiritual practice to choose from.

My father committed suicide in 1981. It was excrutiating;y painful. I was completely open to the teachings that life is suffering.

I feel very fortunate now that I had that experience because it opened my heart and mind.

Not everyone is so fortunate to have such a painful experience early in life.

You would call dealing with your father comitting suicide a 'fortunate experience'?

I do now because I really had to grow and change. That pain caused me to take up the path of meditation.

One would hope that you might not have needed that path had your father not done what he did, or you would have found it eventually regardless of your father's circumstances.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That's why it is so great that there are so many paths of spiritual practice to choose from.

My father committed suicide in 1981. It was excrutiating;y painful. I was completely open to the teachings that life is suffering.

I feel very fortunate now that I had that experience because it opened my heart and mind.

Not everyone is so fortunate to have such a painful experience early in life.

You would call dealing with your father comitting suicide a 'fortunate experience'?

I do now because I really had to grow and change. That pain caused me to take up the path of meditation.

Spoken like a true seeker Sky Dancer.

 

[Newby]

That's why it is so great that there are so many paths of spiritual practice to choose from.

My father committed suicide in 1981. It was excrutiating;y painful. I was completely open to the teachings that life is suffering.

I feel very fortunate now that I had that experience because it opened my heart and mind.

Not everyone is so fortunate to have such a painful experience early in life.

You would call dealing with your father comitting suicide a 'fortunate experience'?

Sometimes, that which OTHER PEOPLE don't survive makes us stronger, too.

I can agree with that, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'fortunate' though.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You would call dealing with your father comitting suicide a 'fortunate experience'?

Sometimes, that which OTHER PEOPLE don't survive makes us stronger, too.

I can agree with that, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'fortunate' though.

I consider it most fortunate. I consider it a gift from my father and a way that I was able to honor him in death. My father helped me understand that life is suffering. His dying woke me up.

I wouldn't have found my way to Buddhism if everything in my life was hunky dory.