Are you in favor of Obama's new Amnesty/Voter register program?

[Flopper]

You seem to be operating from the premise that the United States owes the right to be here to anyone that wants it. How about if these people work to build THEIR country into some place that is safe and decent to raise their children in? Mexico has natural resources similar to those in the U.S and has been a sovereign nation for almost as long. The United States didn't just form by "luck". It took hard work, effort and people that were willing to do the things that make this a great nation rather than run away looking for the easy way.

No, I don't believe illegal immigrants had the right to come here, but the fact is they are here and we need to deal with it. We can't deport millions of people. We have spent many billions trying to seal the boarders and they still come. We need to crack down on the hiring of illegals, deport those that are engaging in criminal activity, and assimilate the remainder.

The path to citizenship provides a means of documenting those that are here. Documenting these people assists law enforcement and tax collections. Undocumented immigrants often are force to live in the shadows where they are easily drawn into criminal activity.

We have laws right now to crack down on the hiring of illegal aliens and our government refuses to enforce them and what good does it do to deport criminal aliens if we don't bother to secure the border? There is no need to assimilate the remainder of aliens because if we start enforcing our employment laws and quit allowing people to overwhelm of social programs in the guise of "the children", then they will pack up and go home. We do not allow car thieves to keep the stolen cars. We don't allow bank robbers to keep the money. We shouldn't allow border jumpers a place at the front of the line. If immigration to the U.S. is difficult then perhaps these people can put some effort into turning their nation into a decent place to raise their families.

Currently it is very difficult for employers to check the citizenship of employees.
In order to make it much harder for illegal immigrants to find work Congress needs to do two things: first, we must accept that there is a need for a national ID card that is based on biometrics and cannot be copied; second, we must change the fines that businesses have to pay when they hire illegal immigrants so that the penalties will deter even the biggest of businesses from hiring illegal immigrants. To accomplish this goal we cannot pass legislation that simply increases the fine; instead, we must make the fine dependent on the financial wherewithal of individual businesses. Simply put, a business should have to pay a fine equal to one percent of last year’s earnings for each illegal immigrant it hires. Under this system, every business would have a tremendous incentive to make absolutely sure they are not hiring illegal immigrants. If an individual landscaper hires an illegal immigrant they will have to pay a fine of thousands of dollars. If Wall mart hirers an illegal immigrant their fine will be in the millions of dollars. Either way, each business will know that if they hire someone without a government ID they will run the risk of paying a harsh penalty.

 

[Flopper]

I'm still waiting for the explanation as to why we can't secure the border until AFTER we grant amnesty.. unless of course the answer is we need as many more illegals as we can get prior to the granting of amnesty?

Make no mistake, once amnesty is announced, they'll flood across the border like we've never seen before.

Securing the boarders has nothing to do with amnesty. Securing the boarders addresses the problem of illegal immigration. Amnesty addresses the problem of undocumented aliens living here.

 

[Vel]

No, I don't believe illegal immigrants had the right to come here, but the fact is they are here and we need to deal with it. We can't deport millions of people. We have spent many billions trying to seal the boarders and they still come. We need to crack down on the hiring of illegals, deport those that are engaging in criminal activity, and assimilate the remainder.

The path to citizenship provides a means of documenting those that are here. Documenting these people assists law enforcement and tax collections. Undocumented immigrants often are force to live in the shadows where they are easily drawn into criminal activity.

We have laws right now to crack down on the hiring of illegal aliens and our government refuses to enforce them and what good does it do to deport criminal aliens if we don't bother to secure the border? There is no need to assimilate the remainder of aliens because if we start enforcing our employment laws and quit allowing people to overwhelm of social programs in the guise of "the children", then they will pack up and go home. We do not allow car thieves to keep the stolen cars. We don't allow bank robbers to keep the money. We shouldn't allow border jumpers a place at the front of the line. If immigration to the U.S. is difficult then perhaps these people can put some effort into turning their nation into a decent place to raise their families.

Currently it is very difficult for employers to check the citizenship of employees.
In order to make it much harder for illegal immigrants to find work Congress needs to do two things: first, we must accept that there is a need for a national ID card that is based on biometrics and cannot be copied; second, we must change the fines that businesses have to pay when they hire illegal immigrants so that the penalties will deter even the biggest of businesses from hiring illegal immigrants. To accomplish this goal we cannot pass legislation that simply increases the fine; instead, we must make the fine dependent on the financial wherewithal of individual businesses. Simply put, a business should have to pay a fine equal to one percent of last year’s earnings for each illegal immigrant it hires. Under this system, every business would have a tremendous incentive to make absolutely sure they are not hiring illegal immigrants. If an individual landscaper hires an illegal immigrant they will have to pay a fine of thousands of dollars. If Wall mart hirers an illegal immigrant their fine will be in the millions of dollars. Either way, each business will know that if they hire someone without a government ID they will run the risk of paying a harsh penalty.

Or how about this.. let's just bust a few business that we know are hiring illegal aliens. I'd bet that other businesses would get the hint. Let's have our federal government NOT suing our states for trying to figure out who is who. Let's try that. Let's try letting Social Security mail out no match letters to businesses so that they have an idea who on their staff is legal and who is working under fraudulent papers. Let's ENFORCE the current laws.

 

[Foxfyre]

U.S. Senator Barack Obama voted against every single one of immigration reform proposals that would have helped including a comprehensive guest worker program. He has voted in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens, has voted in giving illegals various assistance including in-state tuition, educational benefits, welfare and healthcare services, and subsidized housing. He did vote to make it easier for employers to verify legal status, but would not support coming down hard on employes who intentionally hire illegals.

President Obama has devoted exactly 38 words of his State of the Union Address to illegal immigration. Prior to this week he has proposed no legislation to address any of the problems. He has been extremely slow and ineffective in doing anything to reduce the number of illegals entering the country.

He's going to have to do a hell of a lot now to convince me he gives a damn about it. I do think he would grant citizenship to 20 million illegals now and encourage many more to come and become illegal today if he could though.

Edit to add poll numbers:
According to a recent Quinnipac University poll, 66% of Americans want strict enforcement of existing immigration laws. They want the current laws enforced before any new legislation is introduced. Only about 30% think illegal immigrants should be offered a path to citizenship. Just more evidence as how far out of touch with the people the President is.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Yet chances are no matter what the people want, this gang of thugs in Washington probably will pass an amnesty bill.

 

[Flopper]

1. Secure the Border. 2. Punish business the violates the law: managers and owners to jail, companies sold to competitors. 3. Amnesty, registration, and path to citizenship.

These provisions must be passed in an omnibus bill. Any senator or Congress person who opposes it must be driven from office. The welfare of the country outweighs partisanship. Acts of nativism must be outlawed as well.

Here is what I want:
Step 1: Secure the border: With a fence and virtual technology.
Step 2: Secure the ports! These are massive danger areas! Ever here the joke, how do you smuggle a WMD into the country, hide it in a case of marijuana. This is a scary truth.
Step 3: Set up eVerify and make it mandatory for all hires, including consumers hiring contractors or maids. Make STINGING FINES if disobeyed.
Step 4: Require an identification card. The virtual tamper proof ones that the Democrats want.
Step 5: Set up strict punishments for employers and even individual HR people who hire illegals. Even have criminal charges as a punishment. Do the same for landlords.
Step 6: Rework the immigration laws to end Anchor Babies.
Step 7: Step up guess worker programs for some industries like agriculture
Step 8: End Sancturary Cities. Set guidelines, if these cities fail to meet these guidelines then they lose all federal funds.
Step 9: Give Amnesty to some. Deport some, but allow them to apply for citizenship from their home country. Some disqualify for good and not ever allowed back.

Here is the criteria:
Requirements for Amnesty:
(1) Speak English
(2) Graduated Highschool
(3) Was never on food stamps, unemployment, social security, section 8 or welfare
(4) Was never a terrorist or connected to terrorism or any terrorist organization
(5) Was never in a gang
(6) Have no criminal record, nor spent time in jail
(7) Not an alcoholic or drug addict.
(8) Have never been part of a separatist movement including but not limited to Brown Berretta, La Raza, La Nation of Atlzan etc.
(9) Never declared bankruptcy
(10) Do not owe enormous debt, including medical bills
(11) Have Health insurance
(12) Have a college education, skilled job (like construction) or is a business owner (like a landscaping business).
(13) Must have a working knowledge of US history.
(14) Military Service is an enormous plus and can wipe out some of the disqualifiers

Automatic disqualifiers if you fail 3,4,5,6 & 8!
If you fail the requirements then you must go back to your home country, apply and wait in line like everyone else.

Step 10: Arrest and deport illegals when they are found. Traffic stops, checking into hospitals, regular arrests, etc.

I agree with most of what you want except for “anchor babies”. Most of this is in the bill.

Under criteria:
1. is in the bill.
2. H.S. graduation is not in the bill and don’t think it should be.
3. is not in the bill. I’m no sure about this. Most illegal immigrants pay into social security even thou, they won’t receive benefits.
4. is covered in the bill only under criminal background check.
5. is not in the bill. It would be very hard to enforce and would probably be unconstitutional
6. is in the bill
7. Don’t think it’s in the bill. It would be pretty hard to enforce this.
8. ?
9. I don’t think bankruptcy should be criteria.
10. ?
11. No. If they could afford health insurance, they would be sneaking across the boarder to find work
12. No. If they had college education, there is a good chance they could legally immigrate or get a work permit.
13. Yes, civics is in the bill. Not sure about American history.
14. Good idea.

I think it you included all the above, you would exclude almost everyone.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We have laws right now to crack down on the hiring of illegal aliens and our government refuses to enforce them and what good does it do to deport criminal aliens if we don't bother to secure the border? There is no need to assimilate the remainder of aliens because if we start enforcing our employment laws and quit allowing people to overwhelm of social programs in the guise of "the children", then they will pack up and go home. We do not allow car thieves to keep the stolen cars. We don't allow bank robbers to keep the money. We shouldn't allow border jumpers a place at the front of the line. If immigration to the U.S. is difficult then perhaps these people can put some effort into turning their nation into a decent place to raise their families.

Currently it is very difficult for employers to check the citizenship of employees.
In order to make it much harder for illegal immigrants to find work Congress needs to do two things: first, we must accept that there is a need for a national ID card that is based on biometrics and cannot be copied; second, we must change the fines that businesses have to pay when they hire illegal immigrants so that the penalties will deter even the biggest of businesses from hiring illegal immigrants. To accomplish this goal we cannot pass legislation that simply increases the fine; instead, we must make the fine dependent on the financial wherewithal of individual businesses. Simply put, a business should have to pay a fine equal to one percent of last year’s earnings for each illegal immigrant it hires. Under this system, every business would have a tremendous incentive to make absolutely sure they are not hiring illegal immigrants. If an individual landscaper hires an illegal immigrant they will have to pay a fine of thousands of dollars. If Wall mart hirers an illegal immigrant their fine will be in the millions of dollars. Either way, each business will know that if they hire someone without a government ID they will run the risk of paying a harsh penalty.

Or how about this.. let's just bust a few business that we know are hiring illegal aliens. I'd bet that other businesses would get the hint. Let's have our federal government NOT suing our states for trying to figure out who is who. Let's try that. Let's try letting Social Security mail out no match letters to businesses so that they have an idea who on their staff is legal and who is working under fraudulent papers. Let's ENFORCE the current laws.

I fully support this.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

1. Secure the Border. 2. Punish business the violates the law: managers and owners to jail, companies sold to competitors. 3. Amnesty, registration, and path to citizenship.

These provisions must be passed in an omnibus bill. Any senator or Congress person who opposes it must be driven from office. The welfare of the country outweighs partisanship. Acts of nativism must be outlawed as well.

A classic statist argument.

 

[Zoom-boing]

We can't deport millions of people.

Why not?

 

[JakeStarkey]

U.S. Senator Barack Obama voted against every single one of immigration reform proposals that would have helped including a comprehensive guest worker program. He has voted in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens, has voted in giving illegals various assistance including in-state tuition, educational benefits, welfare and healthcare services, and subsidized housing. He did vote to make it easier for employers to verify legal status, but would not support coming down hard on employes who intentionally hire illegals.

President Obama has devoted exactly 38 words of his State of the Union Address to illegal immigration. Prior to this week he has proposed no legislation to address any of the problems. He has been extremely slow and ineffective in doing anything to reduce the number of illegals entering the country.

He's going to have to do a hell of a lot now to convince me he gives a damn about it. I do think he would grant citizenship to 20 million illegals now and encourage many more to come and become illegal today if he could though.

Edit to add poll numbers:
According to a recent Quinnipac University poll, 66% of Americans want strict enforcement of existing immigration laws. They want the current laws enforced before any new legislation is introduced. Only about 30% think illegal immigrants should be offered a path to citizenship. Just more evidence as how far out of touch with the people the President is.

Well, let's look at the actual question: "Do you think immigration reform should primarily move in the direction of integrating illegal immigrants into American society or in the direction of stricter enforcement of laws against illegal immigration?"

Foxfyre is engaged in selective interpretation of the meaning of the polls. She needs to do better in the future.

 

[JakeStarkey]

1. Secure the Border. 2. Punish business the violates the law: managers and owners to jail, companies sold to competitors. 3. Amnesty, registration, and path to citizenship.

These provisions must be passed in an omnibus bill. Any senator or Congress person who opposes it must be driven from office. The welfare of the country outweighs partisanship. Acts of nativism must be outlawed as well.

A classic statist argument.

Thanks, because it is the only feasible answer, QWB. Your choices will never be enacted. But tell us about them, please.

 

[Foxfyre]

1. Secure the Border. 2. Punish business the violates the law: managers and owners to jail, companies sold to competitors. 3. Amnesty, registration, and path to citizenship.

These provisions must be passed in an omnibus bill. Any senator or Congress person who opposes it must be driven from office. The welfare of the country outweighs partisanship. Acts of nativism must be outlawed as well.

A classic statist argument.

No, its a statement from somebody who doesn't have a clue what an omnibus bill is or what it is for.

But the fact is, the law already says that the border should be secure and nobody should be in this country illegally. The law already says that it is illegal to hire illegal aliens. How about we enforce the laws that are already on the books? If we have no stomach to enforce the laws we already have, how is passing additional laws going to help? What makes anybody think our fearless leaders will have the stomach to enforce new laws?

Amnesty has already been tried and has proved to be like putting a giant flashing neon sign over America saying 'YA'LL COME! And in smaller print: If you keep your head down for just a little while, they'll let you stay. Every single time. And meanwhile you'll get lots and lots of free goodies.

If we are going to pass any new law, lets make it a temporary amnesty--say 60 to 90 days--giving all illegals opportunity to get their affairs in order and get out of the country where they can apply to come back legally. Include in that provision that anybody still here illegally after that 60 or 90 days will be subject to criminal prosecution and will be barred for life from entering the USA legally. They won't be welcome on a guest worker program. They won't be allowed to apply for citizenship. They won't be eligible for a green card. They won't be granted a VISA to come visit. They'll be on every no fly list.

 

[Intense]

This will be the death to this country!!!! Come on liberals tell me why this is good!!!

Same lies every time it comes around.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre puts her foot in her mouth, again. Look the def up, girl. On second thought, you will get lost on the long bus. Here I will help you, because my mother told me to always help a woman in distress. adj "Having many purposes or treating with numerous things at the same time; including many things."

The flaw in FF's argument is simple: the illegals ARE home. They are not going anywhere. A roundup will never happen, because the American people will never support police state behavior. An omnibus bill, as I have described, is the only way to get a majority.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Operation Wetback seemed to have worked halfway decent.


Handbook of Texas Online - OPERATION WETBACK


And I believe the majority of todays Americans won't give a damn about something that "looks" like a Police state. We are smart enough to know the difference.

 

[Vel]

Foxfyre puts her foot in her mouth, again. Look the def up, girl. On second thought, you will get lost on the long bus. Here I will help you, because my mother told me to always help a woman in distress. adj "Having many purposes or treating with numerous things at the same time; including many things."

The flaw in FF's argument is simple: the illegals ARE home. They are not going anywhere. A roundup will never happen, because the American people will never support police state behavior. An omnibus bill, as I have described, is the only way to get a majority.

A majority to do what? As has been stated, we already have laws on the books against hiring illegal aliens. If we choose to enforce our laws, we already have the means so what is it exactly that we need a majority on?

 

[SFC Ollie]

But if we enforce the law then, well the Democrats can't count on all those future voters.

And what would the world ever think of us, to actually enforce our own laws?

Why they might think we actually have a pair, or something.

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfyre puts her foot in her mouth, again. Look the def up, girl. On second thought, you will get lost on the long bus. Here I will help you, because my mother told me to always help a woman in distress. adj "Having many purposes or treating with numerous things at the same time; including many things."

The flaw in FF's argument is simple: the illegals ARE home. They are not going anywhere. A roundup will never happen, because the American people will never support police state behavior. An omnibus bill, as I have described, is the only way to get a majority.

A majority to do what? As has been stated, we already have laws on the books against hiring illegal aliens. If we choose to enforce our laws, we already have the means so what is it exactly that we need a majority on?

We have the majority as well as the laws already on the books. According to that recent Quinnipac poll, two thirds of Americans now want us to enforce the laws already on the books before doing anything about immigration reform. Fewer than 30% of Americans polled want the government to grant amnesty to illegals.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Operation Wetback seemed to have worked halfway decent.


Handbook of Texas Online - OPERATION WETBACK


And I believe the majority of todays Americans won't give a damn about something that "looks" like a Police state. We are smart enough to know the difference.

You believe wrongly, Ollie, because you believe most Americans believe like you. The actual figures, as pointed out, were far fewer than those touted, and 1954 is not today. Heck, in 1954, boys like Emmett Till could be kidnapped, tortured, murdered, and the men bragging about doing it walked free. Today they would go to the execution table like a pig for the chopping block. Nope, won't happen.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre puts her foot in her mouth, again. Look the def up, girl. On second thought, you will get lost on the long bus. Here I will help you, because my mother told me to always help a woman in distress. adj "Having many purposes or treating with numerous things at the same time; including many things."

The flaw in FF's argument is simple: the illegals ARE home. They are not going anywhere. A roundup will never happen, because the American people will never support police state behavior. An omnibus bill, as I have described, is the only way to get a majority.

A majority to do what? As has been stated, we already have laws on the books against hiring illegal aliens. If we choose to enforce our laws, we already have the means so what is it exactly that we need a majority on?

We have the majority as well as the laws already on the books. According to that recent Quinnipac poll, two thirds of Americans now want us to enforce the laws already on the books before doing anything about immigration reform. Fewer than 30% of Americans polled want the government to grant amnesty to illegals.

Foxfyre is deliberately misinterpreting the poll, so I suggest you all go look at it yourself.

Go ahead and postthe link, FF.