Are you in favor of Obama's new Amnesty/Voter register program?

[Charles_Main]

Or how about this.. let's just bust a few business that we know are hiring illegal aliens. I'd bet that other businesses would get the hint. Let's have our federal government NOT suing our states for trying to figure out who is who. Let's try that. Let's try letting Social Security mail out no match letters to businesses so that they have an idea who on their staff is legal and who is working under fraudulent papers. Let's ENFORCE the current laws.

Unfortunately, illegal alien is not tattooed on their forehead. All a business can do is ask for a social security card or another form of id which can usually be forged very easily. Most migrant workers don't have much in the way of identification. I agree we should bust business that hire illegals, but let's first give them a way to determine who is legal.

This is true. During the Carter Administration and again in the Reagan Administration, the government tried to enforce the law against hiring illegals. We had to obtain three positive forms of ID, one of which needed to be a verification of the person's home addresss, i.e. a utility bill or something. It was a royal pain too, especially when I needed an instructor or lifeguard at the last minute, had somebody qualified ready to step in, and they didn't have enough ID with them. So I, just like everybody else in such circumstances, cheated and let the new hire bring in the necessary documentation later. And after awhile everybody got more and more lax until nobody was bothering any more.

But then the government wasn't really enforcing the policy either so we could be as lax as we wanted and it didn't matter.

But when we were enforcing the policy, a new booming cottage industry producing phony IDs sprang up immediately. That wasn't so much a problem in our small north central Kansas community--I had 70 to 80 employees on the payroll at all times and only got stung once--but was more so a problem in some of the larger Kansas cities and very much a problem elsewhere.

Nowadays, here in Albuquerque, all the illegals are using multiple and usually phony social security numbers, phony addresses, phony references, and multiple aliases. And a lot of employers are hiring them quite unintentionally, but that problem really is minimal. The worse problem are those employers who are hiring them on purpose and actually prefer hiring them because illegals don't dare formally complain about much of anything.

A national ID card wouldn't be foolproof any more than our money has foiled all the counterfeiters. I would prefer encrypted drivers' licenses or other photo ID furnished by the State, with social security numbers verified if not actually printed on the those documents, before the ID could be issued.

Got tickled at Ollie not being able to use his Federal ID card though. I needed ID to pick up a narcotic prescription for a family member and the pharmacy wouldn't take my passport as positive ID.

yep most of them are using stolen or Fake identities and yet they are just innocent people looking for work. Not Criminals.

LOL

 

[Vel]

I've seen several people on the board claim that most Americans are in favor of a "path to citizenship" for illegal aliens. If that's really the case, then why should we look at some mammoth comprehensive immigration bill? Why not just put the path to citizenship on the table for a straight up or down vote? If it's good legislation then it should be able to stand alone, shouldn't it?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I've seen several people on the board claim that most Americans are in favor of a "path to citizenship" for illegal aliens. If that's really the case, then why should we look at some mammoth comprehensive immigration bill? Why not just put the path to citizenship on the table for a straight up or down vote? If it's good legislation then it should be able to stand alone, shouldn't it?

That makes sense to me, as long as it is coupled to business accountability and border security. It has to be consensus on the whole package and future of America.

 

[Vel]

I've seen several people on the board claim that most Americans are in favor of a "path to citizenship" for illegal aliens. If that's really the case, then why should we look at some mammoth comprehensive immigration bill? Why not just put the path to citizenship on the table for a straight up or down vote? If it's good legislation then it should be able to stand alone, shouldn't it?

That makes sense to me, as long as it is coupled to business accountability and border security. It has to be consensus on the whole package and future of America.

If you couple it with business accountability and border security then it becomes a comprehensive immigration bill. We already have laws for business accountablilty and border security that we can enforce. The question is what to do about the current illegals. Do you think the path to citizenship can't stand on it's own?

 

[SFC Ollie]

I've seen several people on the board claim that most Americans are in favor of a "path to citizenship" for illegal aliens. If that's really the case, then why should we look at some mammoth comprehensive immigration bill? Why not just put the path to citizenship on the table for a straight up or down vote? If it's good legislation then it should be able to stand alone, shouldn't it?

That makes sense to me, as long as it is coupled to business accountability and border security. It has to be consensus on the whole package and future of America.

If you couple it with business accountability and border security then it becomes a comprehensive immigration bill. We already have laws for business accountablilty and border security that we can enforce. The question is what to do about the current illegals. Do you think the path to citizenship can't stand on it's own?

Not with me it can't. I am against amnesty. They want to be citizens go home and apply through channels. Period.

 

[ConHog]

I've seen several people on the board claim that most Americans are in favor of a "path to citizenship" for illegal aliens. If that's really the case, then why should we look at some mammoth comprehensive immigration bill? Why not just put the path to citizenship on the table for a straight up or down vote? If it's good legislation then it should be able to stand alone, shouldn't it?

That makes sense to me, as long as it is coupled to business accountability and border security. It has to be consensus on the whole package and future of America.

And shutting down the border, we can't just have a continuous flow.

 

[Againsheila]

So, Sgt. Low Class Ollie would have children born in the richest country in the world sent back to one of the world's poorest? I depise illegals, but children are innocent and as such should never be forced to risk starvation, disease, and god knows what else in that shit hole country called Mexico because of their scumbag parents recklessness.

Fine, anyone that has or uses a child in the commission of a crime is not qualified to be a parent. Terminate their rights and give the kids up to a loving American family.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I've seen several people on the board claim that most Americans are in favor of a "path to citizenship" for illegal aliens. If that's really the case, then why should we look at some mammoth comprehensive immigration bill? Why not just put the path to citizenship on the table for a straight up or down vote? If it's good legislation then it should be able to stand alone, shouldn't it?

That makes sense to me, as long as it is coupled to business accountability and border security. It has to be consensus on the whole package and future of America.

And shutting down the border, we can't just have a continuous flow.

Fully makes sense.

 

[Charles_Main]

I've seen several people on the board claim that most Americans are in favor of a "path to citizenship" for illegal aliens. If that's really the case, then why should we look at some mammoth comprehensive immigration bill? Why not just put the path to citizenship on the table for a straight up or down vote? If it's good legislation then it should be able to stand alone, shouldn't it?

That makes sense to me, as long as it is coupled to business accountability and border security. It has to be consensus on the whole package and future of America.

There is one problem with this argument. we already have a path to citizenship in this country, but the Mexican illegals didn't get the memo. Because it does not involve jumping our border illegally and stealing someones identity to stay here.

 

[JakeStarkey]

As we did in Texas, Charles. Of course, my ancestors six times back were first among the illegal Dixiebacks.

 

[Vel]

That makes sense to me, as long as it is coupled to business accountability and border security. It has to be consensus on the whole package and future of America.

And shutting down the border, we can't just have a continuous flow.

Fully makes sense.

Ok. So we know we have workplace enforcement laws already and here's the link to the legislation passed to secure our border.

Bush Signs U.S.- Mexico Border Fence Bill - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

So now that we have two parts of the immigration debate already settled, don't you think we should have a bill that only addresses the illegal immigration population already here? Because if legalizing 11 - 20 million border jumpers is a good idea, then shouldn't the legislation that does it be able to stand alone?

 

[Againsheila]

And shutting down the border, we can't just have a continuous flow.

Fully makes sense.

Ok. So we know we have workplace enforcement laws already and here's the link to the legislation passed to secure our border.

Bush Signs U.S.- Mexico Border Fence Bill - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

So now that we have two parts of the immigration debate already settled, don't you think we should have a bill that only addresses the illegal immigration population already here? Because if legalizing 11 - 20 million border jumpers is a good idea, then shouldn't the legislation that does it be able to stand alone?

If we give amnesty to people who stole into our country, stole our jobs, kept our wages artificially low, stole our identities, our ss numbers, etc, why not give amnesty to all burglars? All car thieves? All bank robbers? After all, they just want a better life too!

Where does the amnesty stop?

Again we've had amnesty several times in the past and the only result was a higher rate of illegals crossing the border, why does anyone believe another amnesty will be different?

 

[Vel]

Fully makes sense.

Ok. So we know we have workplace enforcement laws already and here's the link to the legislation passed to secure our border.

Bush Signs U.S.- Mexico Border Fence Bill - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

So now that we have two parts of the immigration debate already settled, don't you think we should have a bill that only addresses the illegal immigration population already here? Because if legalizing 11 - 20 million border jumpers is a good idea, then shouldn't the legislation that does it be able to stand alone?

If we give amnesty to people who stole into our country, stole our jobs, kept our wages artificially low, stole our identities, our ss numbers, etc, why not give amnesty to all burglars? All car thieves? All bank robbers? After all, they just want a better life too!

Where does the amnesty stop?

Again we've had amnesty several times in the past and the only result was a higher rate of illegals crossing the border, why does anyone believe another amnesty will be different?

You miss the point of my post. IF legalizing all the illegals was a good idea then it wouldn't have to be tied to border security in order to make it happen. As Jon Kyl pointed out, our security is being held hostage to the amnesty agenda. Politicians know that there is no way that they could get amnesty passed without hooking it to our national security.

 

[Flopper]

I've seen several people on the board claim that most Americans are in favor of a "path to citizenship" for illegal aliens. If that's really the case, then why should we look at some mammoth comprehensive immigration bill? Why not just put the path to citizenship on the table for a straight up or down vote? If it's good legislation then it should be able to stand alone, shouldn't it?

That makes sense to me, as long as it is coupled to business accountability and border security. It has to be consensus on the whole package and future of America.

There is one problem with this argument. we already have a path to citizenship in this country, but the Mexican illegals didn't get the memo. Because it does not involve jumping our border illegally and stealing someones identity to stay here.

Wrong. If you are unskilled or even if you have a trade, you can not legally immigrate to the US unless you have immediate family living in the US legally. For about 99% of all Mexicans, there is no way they can legally immigrate to the US.

 

[Flopper]

Ok. So we know we have workplace enforcement laws already and here's the link to the legislation passed to secure our border.

Bush Signs U.S.- Mexico Border Fence Bill - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

So now that we have two parts of the immigration debate already settled, don't you think we should have a bill that only addresses the illegal immigration population already here? Because if legalizing 11 - 20 million border jumpers is a good idea, then shouldn't the legislation that does it be able to stand alone?

If we give amnesty to people who stole into our country, stole our jobs, kept our wages artificially low, stole our identities, our ss numbers, etc, why not give amnesty to all burglars? All car thieves? All bank robbers? After all, they just want a better life too!

Where does the amnesty stop?

Again we've had amnesty several times in the past and the only result was a higher rate of illegals crossing the border, why does anyone believe another amnesty will be different?

You miss the point of my post. IF legalizing all the illegals was a good idea then it wouldn't have to be tied to border security in order to make it happen. As Jon Kyl pointed out, our security is being held hostage to the amnesty agenda. Politicians know that there is no way that they could get amnesty passed without hooking it to our national security.

Path to Citizenship is in the bill in order to get wider support. In a NY Times Poll, 62% of Americans say illegal immigrants that have been here 2 yrs should be able to apply for legal status.

I think the national id card is more important than speeding billions more to secure the boarders but beefing up boarder security is needed to get more support for the bill.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/25/us/25poll.html

 

[Flopper]

Ok. So we know we have workplace enforcement laws already and here's the link to the legislation passed to secure our border.

Bush Signs U.S.- Mexico Border Fence Bill - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

So now that we have two parts of the immigration debate already settled, don't you think we should have a bill that only addresses the illegal immigration population already here? Because if legalizing 11 - 20 million border jumpers is a good idea, then shouldn't the legislation that does it be able to stand alone?

If we give amnesty to people who stole into our country, stole our jobs, kept our wages artificially low, stole our identities, our ss numbers, etc, why not give amnesty to all burglars? All car thieves? All bank robbers? After all, they just want a better life too!

Where does the amnesty stop?

Again we've had amnesty several times in the past and the only result was a higher rate of illegals crossing the border, why does anyone believe another amnesty will be different?

You miss the point of my post. IF legalizing all the illegals was a good idea then it wouldn't have to be tied to border security in order to make it happen. As Jon Kyl pointed out, our security is being held hostage to the amnesty agenda. Politicians know that there is no way that they could get amnesty passed without hooking it to our national security.

Path to Citizenship is in the bill in order to get wider support. In a NY Times Poll, 62% of Americans say illegal immigrants that have been here 2 yrs should be able to apply for legal status.

I think the national id card is more important than speeding billions more to secure the boarders but beefing up boarder security is needed to get more support for the bill.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/25/us/25poll.html

 

[Foxfyre]

Path to Citizenship is in the bill in order to get wider support. In a NY Times Poll, 62% of Americans say illegal immigrants that have been here 2 yrs should be able to apply for legal status.

I think the national id card is more important than speeding billions more to secure the boarders but beefing up boarder security is needed to get more support for the bill.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/25/us/25poll.html

It makes no sense to me to provide a path to citizenship to people who have broken our laws just because they are here. It makes even less sense to reward people who have broken our laws just because they have broken them a lot longer than some other folks. Using that logic, the guy who commits manslaughter gets the death penalty while the serial killer gets probation, or if you're going to rob banks, if you rob enough of them they'll just give you the money.

I have helped teach classes for legal immigrants to prepare them for citizenship. I have sat in on their swearing in ceremony. It is a wonderful thing, and there usually isn't a dry eye in the house, most particularly among the immigrants. But they all did it the legal way - applied, waited, and waited, and waited, and waited until finally their number came up. And then they jumped through all the hoops required because they so much wanted to be Americans and part of the American culture.

And now our fearless leaders and Americans who have forgotten what a privilege and blessing American citizenship is want to just give 12 to 20+ illegals citizenship because they crowded to the front of the line and weren't willing to follow the law to get here. And that 12 to 20+ will probably double or triple in no time because currently we allow immigrants to bring in their families too. And all those who applied legally and are waiting will continue to wait much much longer.

And they wonder why we can't secure our borders.

 

[Flopper]

Path to Citizenship is in the bill in order to get wider support. In a NY Times Poll, 62% of Americans say illegal immigrants that have been here 2 yrs should be able to apply for legal status.

I think the national id card is more important than speeding billions more to secure the boarders but beefing up boarder security is needed to get more support for the bill.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/25/us/25poll.html

It makes no sense to me to provide a path to citizenship to people who have broken our laws just because they are here. It makes even less sense to reward people who have broken our laws just because they have broken them a lot longer than some other folks. Using that logic, the guy who commits manslaughter gets the death penalty while the serial killer gets probation, or if you're going to rob banks, if you rob enough of them they'll just give you the money.

I have helped teach classes for legal immigrants to prepare them for citizenship. I have sat in on their swearing in ceremony. It is a wonderful thing, and there usually isn't a dry eye in the house, most particularly among the immigrants. But they all did it the legal way - applied, waited, and waited, and waited, and waited until finally their number came up. And then they jumped through all the hoops required because they so much wanted to be Americans and part of the American culture.

And now our fearless leaders and Americans who have forgotten what a privilege and blessing American citizenship is want to just give 12 to 20+ illegals citizenship because they crowded to the front of the line and weren't willing to follow the law to get here. And that 12 to 20+ will probably double or triple in no time because currently we allow immigrants to bring in their families too. And all those who applied legally and are waiting will continue to wait much much longer.

And they wonder why we can't secure our borders.

We have a closed door policy with respect to legal immigration from Mexico. There is no waiting line for legal immigration for Mexicans unless they have immediate family legally in the US.

I think you are missing something. The first step in the Path to Citizenship is to admit you broke the law and pay fines and back taxes. Today the only punishment for most illegals is returning them to their country of origin and we have to pay for it.

For many illegal aliens it would be easier and cheaper to return to their homeland and legally immigrate than use the Path to Citizenship.

 

[Meister]

This will be the death to this country!!!! Come on liberals tell me why this is good!!!

You have to pass it before we all can see how it works.

 

[Foxfyre]

Flopper, unless the law has recently been changed, there is no closed door for legal immigration from Mexico. My one time housekeeper, who has become a personal friend and now works for just about everybody in the local family, has had her green card for a couple of years now, is running her own little housekeeping service, and making a very good living doing so. She has been studying English--speaks it pretty well but still has some difficulty with reading and writing it but is getting there--I've been helping tutor on that and the U.S. Constitution--but she, her three kids, and sister will be taking their citizenship test within the next six months.

Her mother, from Mexico, comes to visit intermittently. Illegally of course, but I'll admit I look the other way on that because "Mama" is just here to visit her kids and then goes home. She isn't milking the US system for anything.

These are very good people who have done it the legal way. They want charity for nothing but only want the chance to taste a bit of the American dream. And they want to be Americans with all that means. They are exactly the kind of folks we want to be Americans.