Are you in favor of Obama's new Amnesty/Voter register program?

[JakeStarkey]

1 & 2, yes. 3 is an insult to every legal immigrant in this great nation,not to mention the millions of people who were denied entry to this country and didn't come here anyway.

That is one view that many accept. However, many more disagree with it, and they have the votes. This is not about morality, it is about political possibility.

 

[Yurt]

1 & 2, yes. 3 is an insult to every legal immigrant in this great nation,not to mention the millions of people who were denied entry to this country and didn't come here anyway.

That is one view that many accept. However, many more disagree with it, and they have the votes. This is not about morality, it is about political possibility.

i want a link that the majority favor amnesty...

i've yet to see that anywhere

 

[JakeStarkey]

1 & 2, yes. 3 is an insult to every legal immigrant in this great nation,not to mention the millions of people who were denied entry to this country and didn't come here anyway.

That is one view that many accept. However, many more disagree with it, and they have the votes. This is not about morality, it is about political possibility.

i want a link that the majority favor amnesty...

i've yet to see that anywhere

Your problem, sonny. But you can go read and study, which clearly reveals that you are in the minority. http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1421/where-the-public-stands-on-immigration-reform You don't have the votes, you will never have the votes, to block this.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So, Sgt. Low Class Ollie would have children born in the richest country in the world sent back to one of the world's poorest? I depise illegals, but children are innocent and as such should never be forced to risk starvation, disease, and god knows what else in that shit hole country called Mexico because of their scumbag parents recklessness.

Sergeant First Class to you asswipe, I earned it.

Now I am intelligent enough to know and understand that we cannot take the citizenship away. but we can prevent it from being given in the future. And why should i care about Mexican children whose parents are breaking our laws? Contrary to popular belief Mexico is not a complete shithole, in fact do some research, their unemployment for 2010 is 5.6%.
Mexico Unemployment rate - Economy


Fuck em, ship their asses back. And any other country too.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Well, SFC Ollie, I honor your service, and I have told you that before. Yes, as part of securing the border, holding business accountable, and immigration reform, grandfather all anchor babies alive today and born until the day an amendment changes that.

 

[Vel]

The Path to Citizenship is a small but important part of the immigration reform bill. Lindsey Grahmn(R) was the original author. It is a long and difficult process that few will follow. The process includes:
· Residency as of Dec 2009.
· Admission of guilt, payment of fees, fines, and back taxes.
· A criminal background check
· Upon filing the necessary papers, the person becomes a documented resident.
· For 8 years they must live in the US, file a tax return, pay taxes and maintain a clean criminal record.
· They can only leave the country during the eight years for short periods of time.
· They must attain a level of proficiency in English and complete a course in Civics
· At the end of the 8 years they can make application for citizenship. The entire process will probably take 10 years.

This is the way the bill was a month or so ago. It may have changed.

If this is what you mean by amnesty, yes I support it.

Most authorities on immigration seem to agree that immigration reform must have 4 components:
1. Eliminate the jobs available to illegals. This is why the vast majority of illegals come here. They don’t come here to have babies, get on the welfare roles, or perpetrate crimes. They come here to find work.
2. Provide better boarder security.
3. Prosecute those that engage in criminal acts, imprison, and deport them.
4. Provide a path to citizenship for those that prove worthy.

Why do you think it fair to allow those that are here illegally to stay at all? Why should they get to enjoy the benefits offered here when those that try to do the right thing and apply to enter legally must wait in their native lands? How can you possibly think that is fair?

Fair?? Many of these people came to this country as children. They didn't ask to come here. They were brought by their parents. Wives followed husbands because they had no choice. For years farmers recruited Mexicans promising jobs and legal status even arranging for them to cross the border. Mexico promoted illegal immigration to the US. Immigration laws have been randomly and selective enforced for years. If you are an unskilled or semi-skilled worker without immediate family living legally in the US, your chance of ever being able to legally immigrate to the US is just about zero. If you are deported, you will never be accepted as a legal immigrant. That means if the breadwinner of the family is deported he has to sneak back into the US to support his family.

Is any of this fair?

I'm not saying what illegals have done is right, but what we have done is not right either. Many of these people have risked their lives to get here and have endured hardships that we only see in the movies. Most of us did nothing to earn our citizenship. We were just lucky enough to be born here.

You seem to be operating from the premise that the United States owes the right to be here to anyone that wants it. How about if these people work to build THEIR country into some place that is safe and decent to raise their children in? Mexico has natural resources similar to those in the U.S and has been a sovereign nation for almost as long. The United States didn't just form by "luck". It took hard work, effort and people that were willing to do the things that make this a great nation rather than run away looking for the easy way.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Vel6377, many Americans feel like you do, but most don't. You don't have the votes, and the majority will not be swayed by your version of American exceptionalism. Be part of the process, because your current position will box you out of decision making.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Vel6377, many Americans feel like you do, but most don't. You don't have the votes, and the majority will not be swayed by your version of American exceptionalism. Be part of the process, because your current position will box you out of decision making.

I wonder just what the people think. We know what Washington thinks and that doesn't actually mean the people.

 

[SFC Ollie]

That was easier than I thought it would be.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform had Zogby international conduct a post-election poll and the results show that Americans are against an immigration plan that includes amnesty. The poll revealed that actual voters from the recent election favor tougher enforcement and that amnesty for illegal aliens would "further harm the interests of struggling American workers."

According to the poll's results, only 32 percent of Barack Obama voters said that his stance on amnesty factored into their decision. Sixty-seven percent said that it was not a factor or they voted for Obama in spite of his support for amnesty.

Poll Reveals NO Mandate for Amnesty | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels

 

[Vel]

Vel6377, many Americans feel like you do, but most don't. You don't have the votes, and the majority will not be swayed by your version of American exceptionalism. Be part of the process, because your current position will box you out of decision making.

It's your Democrats that don't have the votes to shove this down the American people' throats right now. When the Republicans tried to push this crap off onto the people in 2005. they were shown the door. Politicians of all stripes need to be on notice that the American people are not going to sit back and continue to allow them to give the nation away in order to cement their own political power. Most American citizens can look at what the great state of California has been reduced to and are horrified at the thought of that spreading. Most Americans are smart enough to realize that while immigrants of years past were coming here in order to work and make their own way, the new wave of illegals are coming here to take advantage of the generous social programs this country placed as a safety net for OUR citizens. Free health care through the ER's, WIC, SSI "for the children". Food stamps "for the children". Rent subsidies "for the children" and so on. Our state education systems are over taxed by those that live three families to a house that's paying one property tax payment.
Pity didn't build this nation but if we're not careful it will destroy it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That was easier than I thought it would be.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform had Zogby international conduct a post-election poll and the results show that Americans are against an immigration plan that includes amnesty. The poll revealed that actual voters from the recent election favor tougher enforcement and that amnesty for illegal aliens would "further harm the interests of struggling American workers."

According to the poll's results, only 32 percent of Barack Obama voters said that his stance on amnesty factored into their decision. Sixty-seven percent said that it was not a factor or they voted for Obama in spite of his support for amnesty.

Poll Reveals NO Mandate for Amnesty | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels

The poll I posted contradicts that, so I guess somewhere in the middle. Maybe 50 50. If so, then let the educational awareness wars begin! Since America is becoming younger and darker and more global, I suspect that amnesty will happen.

 

[Flopper]

Why do you think it fair to allow those that are here illegally to stay at all? Why should they get to enjoy the benefits offered here when those that try to do the right thing and apply to enter legally must wait in their native lands? How can you possibly think that is fair?

Fair?? Many of these people came to this country as children. They didn't ask to come here. They were brought by their parents. Wives followed husbands because they had no choice. For years farmers recruited Mexicans promising jobs and legal status even arranging for them to cross the border. Mexico promoted illegal immigration to the US. Immigration laws have been randomly and selective enforced for years. If you are an unskilled or semi-skilled worker without immediate family living legally in the US, your chance of ever being able to legally immigrate to the US is just about zero. If you are deported, you will never be accepted as a legal immigrant. That means if the breadwinner of the family is deported he has to sneak back into the US to support his family.

Is any of this fair?

I'm not saying what illegals have done is right, but what we have done is not right either. Many of these people have risked their lives to get here and have endured hardships that we only see in the movies. Most of us did nothing to earn our citizenship. We were just lucky enough to be born here.

You seem to be operating from the premise that the United States owes the right to be here to anyone that wants it. How about if these people work to build THEIR country into some place that is safe and decent to raise their children in? Mexico has natural resources similar to those in the U.S and has been a sovereign nation for almost as long. The United States didn't just form by "luck". It took hard work, effort and people that were willing to do the things that make this a great nation rather than run away looking for the easy way.

No, I don't believe illegal immigrants had the right to come here, but the fact is they are here and we need to deal with it. We can't deport millions of people. We have spent many billions trying to seal the boarders and they still come. We need to crack down on the hiring of illegals, deport those that are engaging in criminal activity, and assimilate the remainder.

The path to citizenship provides a means of documenting those that are here. Documenting these people assists law enforcement and tax collections. Undocumented immigrants often are force to live in the shadows where they are easily drawn into criminal activity.

 

[Vel]

Fair?? Many of these people came to this country as children. They didn't ask to come here. They were brought by their parents. Wives followed husbands because they had no choice. For years farmers recruited Mexicans promising jobs and legal status even arranging for them to cross the border. Mexico promoted illegal immigration to the US. Immigration laws have been randomly and selective enforced for years. If you are an unskilled or semi-skilled worker without immediate family living legally in the US, your chance of ever being able to legally immigrate to the US is just about zero. If you are deported, you will never be accepted as a legal immigrant. That means if the breadwinner of the family is deported he has to sneak back into the US to support his family.

Is any of this fair?

I'm not saying what illegals have done is right, but what we have done is not right either. Many of these people have risked their lives to get here and have endured hardships that we only see in the movies. Most of us did nothing to earn our citizenship. We were just lucky enough to be born here.

You seem to be operating from the premise that the United States owes the right to be here to anyone that wants it. How about if these people work to build THEIR country into some place that is safe and decent to raise their children in? Mexico has natural resources similar to those in the U.S and has been a sovereign nation for almost as long. The United States didn't just form by "luck". It took hard work, effort and people that were willing to do the things that make this a great nation rather than run away looking for the easy way.

No, I don't believe illegal immigrants had the right to come here, but the fact is they are here and we need to deal with it. We can't deport millions of people. We have spent many billions trying to seal the boarders and they still come. We need to crack down on the hiring of illegals, deport those that are engaging in criminal activity, and assimilate the remainder.

The path to citizenship provides a means of documenting those that are here. Documenting these people assists law enforcement and tax collections. Undocumented immigrants often are force to live in the shadows where they are easily drawn into criminal activity.

We have laws right now to crack down on the hiring of illegal aliens and our government refuses to enforce them and what good does it do to deport criminal aliens if we don't bother to secure the border? There is no need to assimilate the remainder of aliens because if we start enforcing our employment laws and quit allowing people to overwhelm of social programs in the guise of "the children", then they will pack up and go home. We do not allow car thieves to keep the stolen cars. We don't allow bank robbers to keep the money. We shouldn't allow border jumpers a place at the front of the line. If immigration to the U.S. is difficult then perhaps these people can put some effort into turning their nation into a decent place to raise their families.

 

[GHook93]

1. Secure the Border. 2. Punish business the violates the law: managers and owners to jail, companies sold to competitors. 3. Amnesty, registration, and path to citizenship.

These provisions must be passed in an omnibus bill. Any senator or Congress person who opposes it must be driven from office. The welfare of the country outweighs partisanship. Acts of nativism must be outlawed as well.

Here is what I want:
Step 1: Secure the border: With a fence and virtual technology.
Step 2: Secure the ports! These are massive danger areas! Ever here the joke, how do you smuggle a WMD into the country, hide it in a case of marijuana. This is a scary truth.
Step 3: Set up eVerify and make it mandatory for all hires, including consumers hiring contractors or maids. Make STINGING FINES if disobeyed.
Step 4: Require an identification card. The virtual tamper proof ones that the Democrats want.
Step 5: Set up strict punishments for employers and even individual HR people who hire illegals. Even have criminal charges as a punishment. Do the same for landlords.
Step 6: Rework the immigration laws to end Anchor Babies.
Step 7: Step up guess worker programs for some industries like agriculture
Step 8: End Sancturary Cities. Set guidelines, if these cities fail to meet these guidelines then they lose all federal funds.
Step 9: Give Amnesty to some. Deport some, but allow them to apply for citizenship from their home country. Some disqualify for good and not ever allowed back.

Here is the criteria:
Requirements for Amnesty:
(1) Speak English
(2) Graduated Highschool
(3) Was never on food stamps, unemployment, social security, section 8 or welfare
(4) Was never a terrorist or connected to terrorism or any terrorist organization
(5) Was never in a gang
(6) Have no criminal record, nor spent time in jail
(7) Not an alcoholic or drug addict.
(8) Have never been part of a separatist movement including but not limited to Brown Berretta, La Raza, La Nation of Atlzan etc.
(9) Never declared bankruptcy
(10) Do not owe enormous debt, including medical bills
(11) Have Health insurance
(12) Have a college education, skilled job (like construction) or is a business owner (like a landscaping business).
(13) Must have a working knowledge of US history.
(14) Military Service is an enormous plus and can wipe out some of the disqualifiers

Automatic disqualifiers if you fail 3,4,5,6 & 8!
If you fail the requirements then you must go back to your home country, apply and wait in line like everyone else.

Step 10: Arrest and deport illegals when they are found. Traffic stops, checking into hospitals, regular arrests, etc.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Step 1: Secure the border: With a fence and virtual technology. (Yes, doable)
Step 2: Secure the ports! These are massive danger areas! Ever here the joke, how do you smuggle a WMD into the country, hide it in a case of marijuana. This is a scary truth. (Yes, doable)
Step 3: Set up eVerify and make it mandatory for all hires, including consumers hiring contractors or maids. Make STINGING FINES if disobeyed. (Yes, doable)
Step 4: Require an identification card. The virtual tamper proof ones that the Democrats want. (Yes, doable)
Step 5: Set up strict punishments for employers and even individual HR people who hire illegals. Even have criminal charges as a punishment. Do the same for landlords. (Yes, doable)
Step 6: Rework the immigration laws to end Anchor Babies. (Not without an amendment, not without grandfathering: unworkable otherwise)
Step 7: Step up guess worker programs for some industries like agriculture (Yes, doable)
Step 8: End Sancturary Cities. Set guidelines, if these cities fail to meet these guidelines then they lose all federal funds. (Yes, doable)
Step 9: Give Amnesty to some. Deport some, but allow them to apply for citizenship from their home country. Some disqualify for good and not ever allowed back. (No, undoable)

BUT, this gives us a position to start.

 

[GHook93]

Step 1: Secure the border: With a fence and virtual technology. (Yes, doable)
Step 2: Secure the ports! These are massive danger areas! Ever here the joke, how do you smuggle a WMD into the country, hide it in a case of marijuana. This is a scary truth. (Yes, doable)
Step 3: Set up eVerify and make it mandatory for all hires, including consumers hiring contractors or maids. Make STINGING FINES if disobeyed. (Yes, doable)
Step 4: Require an identification card. The virtual tamper proof ones that the Democrats want. (Yes, doable)
Step 5: Set up strict punishments for employers and even individual HR people who hire illegals. Even have criminal charges as a punishment. Do the same for landlords. (Yes, doable)
Step 6: Rework the immigration laws to end Anchor Babies. (Not without an amendment, not without grandfathering: unworkable otherwise)
Step 7: Step up guess worker programs for some industries like agriculture (Yes, doable)
Step 8: End Sancturary Cities. Set guidelines, if these cities fail to meet these guidelines then they lose all federal funds. (Yes, doable)
Step 9: Give Amnesty to some. Deport some, but allow them to apply for citizenship from their home country. Some disqualify for good and not ever allowed back. (No, undoable)

BUT, this gives us a position to start.

Wow you agree with 8 of my 10 points. You feeling OK!

Would have at least make disqualifiers to amnesty: Criminal Record, Doesn't Speak English, never part of a separatist organization, never part of a gang, never part of cirminal sindication, never linked to terrorism, didn't graduate highschool, not a drug addict or alcoholic and never fraudulently (sign you must be a US citizen) obtained entitlements (section 8, food stamps, welfare, etc.). I think these are more than reasonable!

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am fine. Centrist does not mean lefty is all. Some of the right here still does not get that.

I don't think that a HS graduation can be required legally but I am not a lawyer. Amnesty given here to those who meet your requirements above: no shipping home. Why? We can't make that happen. Why? The anchor baby citizens now outnumber the far right wing that wants the aliens rounded up and shipped.

What we could do is secure the borders, etc., hold business severely accountable, and the aliens will either slip completely into the background (taken care of by their relatives, most of whom are citizens) and eventually the last one will die of old age. Problem solved.

 

[Flopper]

Vel6377, many Americans feel like you do, but most don't. You don't have the votes, and the majority will not be swayed by your version of American exceptionalism. Be part of the process, because your current position will box you out of decision making.

It's your Democrats that don't have the votes to shove this down the American people' throats right now. When the Republicans tried to push this crap off onto the people in 2005. they were shown the door. Politicians of all stripes need to be on notice that the American people are not going to sit back and continue to allow them to give the nation away in order to cement their own political power. Most American citizens can look at what the great state of California has been reduced to and are horrified at the thought of that spreading. Most Americans are smart enough to realize that while immigrants of years past were coming here in order to work and make their own way, the new wave of illegals are coming here to take advantage of the generous social programs this country placed as a safety net for OUR citizens. Free health care through the ER's, WIC, SSI "for the children". Food stamps "for the children". Rent subsidies "for the children" and so on. Our state education systems are over taxed by those that live three families to a house that's paying one property tax payment.
Pity didn't build this nation but if we're not careful it will destroy it.

No, they don't come here to live on welfare, Medicaid, and have babies. There is no creditable evidence to support this. They come here to find jobs. When they don't find work, they end up on food stamps and welfare. Deny them jobs and you will see a big drop in the number crossing the boarder. Our high unemployment has markedly reduced the number of illegals crossing the boarder. Recession slows illegal border crossings | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Mexico News

Your statements highlight the real reason for the Conservative's strong opposition to immigration reform. When immigrants from Mexico become citizens they tend to vote Democratic. This is pure politics.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'm still waiting for the explanation as to why we can't secure the border until AFTER we grant amnesty.. unless of course the answer is we need as many more illegals as we can get prior to the granting of amnesty?

Make no mistake, once amnesty is announced, they'll flood across the border like we've never seen before.

 

[Vel]

Vel6377, many Americans feel like you do, but most don't. You don't have the votes, and the majority will not be swayed by your version of American exceptionalism. Be part of the process, because your current position will box you out of decision making.

It's your Democrats that don't have the votes to shove this down the American people' throats right now. When the Republicans tried to push this crap off onto the people in 2005. they were shown the door. Politicians of all stripes need to be on notice that the American people are not going to sit back and continue to allow them to give the nation away in order to cement their own political power. Most American citizens can look at what the great state of California has been reduced to and are horrified at the thought of that spreading. Most Americans are smart enough to realize that while immigrants of years past were coming here in order to work and make their own way, the new wave of illegals are coming here to take advantage of the generous social programs this country placed as a safety net for OUR citizens. Free health care through the ER's, WIC, SSI "for the children". Food stamps "for the children". Rent subsidies "for the children" and so on. Our state education systems are over taxed by those that live three families to a house that's paying one property tax payment.
Pity didn't build this nation but if we're not careful it will destroy it.

No, they don't come here to live on welfare, Medicaid, and have babies. There is no creditable evidence to support this. They come here to find jobs. When they don't find work, they end up on food stamps and welfare. Deny them jobs and you will see a big drop in the number crossing the boarder. Our high unemployment has markedly reduced the number of illegals crossing the boarder. Recession slows illegal border crossings | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Mexico News

Your statements highlight the real reason for the Conservative's strong opposition to immigration reform. When immigrants from Mexico become citizens they tend to vote Democratic. This is pure politics.

If they don't find a job and don't find "food stamps and welfare", then perhaps they'll go home. You are also conveniently ignoring the fact that we already HAVE laws against hiring illegal aliens that our government REFUSES to enforce. What good does a new law do if we can't make them enforce the old laws? The "we have to get tough on employers" line is a red herring thrown out to distract people's eyes from the amnesty they want to offer.