Are we getting stupider? Why or why not? Evidence?

[paravani]

What IS intelligence, really?

Is it merely cognitive intelligence, as measured by tests of mathematical and spatial skills, verbal comprehension, grammar, and logic?

I scored 2320/2400 on the GRE, the test for graduate school -- is that the only measure of intelligence? If so, I'm brilliant!

But what if I told you that I'm broke and have been homeless? Now how smart do you think I am?

I think, before we go further in this debate, maybe we should talk about what "intelligence" means to each of us, and see if we can't agree on some objective measures of it.

-- Paravani

I don't think we are getting dumber....just more gullible and lazy.

We tend to embrace ideas that we already believe in and ignore ideas that don't jibe with that. That leads to linear thinking and absolutism.....and it's just not the political conflicts of left vs. right. It's religion vs. science, it's one religion vs. another, it's more and more prevalent in all aspects of our society.

It's easy to be married to an ideology and think that the "other side" is evil. It takes much more effort to consider the "other side's" point of view and sometimes even come to the conclusion that everything isn't black and white and perhaps actually change your mind on individual issues, going against the grain of "your side" in certain things.

 

[Avatar4321]

We? No. I'm not getting stupider. you might, but I am not.

That's only because it's actually not possible for someone to be dumber than you are. Stephanie would be the only dumber person than you. So I guess technically you still could.

That explains why you need to resort to pathetic attacks to further your position and I can argue my issues on their merits.

 

[Some Guy]

We need a huge, giant, enormous Convetional World War that kills of 20% of the worlds population. After the war is over, we need to have a Pandemic that will kill off another 20% of the population. When the Pandemic is brought under control, we need to get a One World Government in place and pass laws that force sterilizations and abortions plus the destruction of "Undesirables" just in case they decide to reproduce.

Once we get that all in place, then we can start the process of selective education. Every person, at the age of 6 years old will be tested. The top 10% will be placed into special schools that will teach these children and give them the best education. The next 50% will be given a good education, but geared towards more technical type of stuff. The next 15% will be educated, but not to long since these will be our soldiers. The next 10% will be unskilled laborers and farmers. The bottom 15% will be used for different kinds of test like what a certain type of chemical does to the eyes or what causes cancer.

We definitely need to get rid of all religion. And let's not forget the guns as well.

Oh, I forgot, when a person becomes useless and can't work any longer, they are sent to a special place where they can die gracefully and be turned into Soylent Green to feed the masses.

Totally!

 

[paravani]

... Your post describes exactly what is most likely to occur if we don't come up with other solutions to our problem of decreasing average intelligence.

Stupid people, after all, are MUCH more likely to think that a civilization-ending war is a good idea.

So, do you have any better ideas than that one?

-- Paravani

We need a huge, giant, enormous Convetional World War that kills of 20% of the worlds population. After the war is over, we need to have a Pandemic that will kill off another 20% of the population. When the Pandemic is brought under control, we need to get a One World Government in place and pass laws that force sterilizations and abortions plus the destruction of "Undesirables" just in case they decide to reproduce.

Once we get that all in place, then we can start the process of selective education. Every person, at the age of 6 years old will be tested. The top 10% will be placed into special schools that will teach these children and give them the best education. The next 50% will be given a good education, but geared towards more technical type of stuff. The next 15% will be educated, but not to long since these will be our soldiers. The next 10% will be unskilled laborers and farmers. The bottom 15% will be used for different kinds of test like what a certain type of chemical does to the eyes or what causes cancer.

We definitely need to get rid of all religion. And let's not forget the guns as well.

Oh, I forgot, when a person becomes useless and can't work any longer, they are sent to a special place where they can die gracefully and be turned into Soylent Green to feed the masses.

 

[OKTexas]

Just look at the posters here who, despite having had years of access to the truth, still insist that Obama is "a Kenyan Muslin socailist facist".

I think nutrition of pregnant women and children have a LOT to do with it. (And it is Red Staters that birth those babies when they are still teens). Ban junk food and expand WIC to have a national Wheels on Meals type program delivering 3 nutritious meals to pregnant women and children 16 and under daily. The future national IQ (and teeth) depend on sugar free meals.

Regards from Rosie

Yep, those "Wheels on Meals" programs will save the hell out of the country. Not only can people not be trusted to run their lives, but now ass holes like you think they need to be spoon fed. Are you a union school teacher? People need to be taught self reliance and personal responsibility, not that they are too stupid to make their own decisions and have everything provided their entire lives. It's people like you that are destroying this country.
Teaching dependency creates more poverty not less.

 

[paravani]

Do you have any ideas how to encourage stupid people to quit having so many kids?

And how would you define stupidity or intelligence?

Really... I appreciate any and all contributions to the topic!

-- Paravani

Just look at the posters here who, despite having had years of access to the truth, still insist that Obama is "a Kenyan Muslin socailist facist".

I think nutrition of pregnant women and children have a LOT to do with it. (And it is Red Staters that birth those babies when they are still teens). Ban junk food and expand WIC to have a national Wheels on Meals type program delivering 3 nutritious meals to pregnant women and children 16 and under daily. The future national IQ (and teeth) depend on sugar free meals.

Regards from Rosie

Yep, those "Wheels on Meals" programs will save the hell out of the country. Not only can people not be trusted to run their lives, but now ass holes like you think they need to be spoon fed. Are you a union school teacher? People need to be taught self reliance and personal responsibility, not that they are too stupid to make their own decisions and have everything provided their entire lives. It's people like you that are destroying this country.
Teaching dependency creates more poverty not less.

 

[Misty]

I disagree 1000%. We have more access to knowledge than ever before.
There are dumb people but sometimes dumb people actually have smart children.

I think we are getting smarter. But liberals are getting lazier.

 

[Foxfyre]

... Your post describes exactly what is most likely to occur if we don't come up with other solutions to our problem of decreasing average intelligence.

Stupid people, after all, are MUCH more likely to think that a civilization-ending war is a good idea.

So, do you have any better ideas than that one?

-- Paravani

We need a huge, giant, enormous Convetional World War that kills of 20% of the worlds population. After the war is over, we need to have a Pandemic that will kill off another 20% of the population. When the Pandemic is brought under control, we need to get a One World Government in place and pass laws that force sterilizations and abortions plus the destruction of "Undesirables" just in case they decide to reproduce.

Once we get that all in place, then we can start the process of selective education. Every person, at the age of 6 years old will be tested. The top 10% will be placed into special schools that will teach these children and give them the best education. The next 50% will be given a good education, but geared towards more technical type of stuff. The next 15% will be educated, but not to long since these will be our soldiers. The next 10% will be unskilled laborers and farmers. The bottom 15% will be used for different kinds of test like what a certain type of chemical does to the eyes or what causes cancer.

We definitely need to get rid of all religion. And let's not forget the guns as well.

Oh, I forgot, when a person becomes useless and can't work any longer, they are sent to a special place where they can die gracefully and be turned into Soylent Green to feed the masses.

You did pick up on that he was totally teasing, Paravani?

But seriously what is intelligence? I.Q. does help in certain technical applications and comprehension, but as Forrest Gump would say, "Stupid is as stupid does." I have known some people with Mensa level IQ's who were so lacking in common sense that most people though they were probably mentally challenged. And then you have the "Idiot Savant" incapable of comprehending most common day things but absolutely brilliant and gifted in one particular ability or skill.

One of my avocations is doing/teaching conflict resolution in business and in institutions and part of that is understanding why people are naturally the way they are; i.e. understanding the particular temperament/intelligence they are born with. Those born with I.Q.'s substantially below normal are going to be limited in what they are capable of learning and understanding, but they don't have to be stupid. And assuming that most of us are born with I.Q. somewhere within the normal range, we are all still limited in various ways and gifted in various ways.

Each one of us has at least somethng that comes effortless to us. It comes to us so naturally and is so easy to understand and to do for us, it is difficult to understand why it is so difficult for somebody else. It might be a personality trait or ability to make people laugh or inspire them to respond, to feel loved or cared for, or to learn. Or it might be an ability for administrative organization and implementation or doing chemistry or math or music or art or whatever. Those gifts we are born with are our own special intelligence, and those who are inspired or encouraged to use them are among the world's happiest and brightest people.

 

[Misty]

Do you have any ideas how to encourage stupid people to quit having so many kids?

And how would you define stupidity or intelligence?

Really... I appreciate any and all contributions to the topic!

-- Paravani

People have the right to have as many kids as they want.

 

[Misty]

This isn't a political topic either. Put this in the proper forum.

 

[sakinago]

Hi, folks!

It's my personal belief that we as a nation are getting stupider by the day.

I don't mean that we make bad choices -- I mean that literally, our average intelligence is dropping with every new generation.

Stupid parents are having more babies than smart parents, and our well-developed civilization makes it easy for even the very stupid to survive and breed another generation.

Well, of course that's the case -- civilization is supposed to make it easy to survive. That's its whole reason for being!

... But civilizations fall; and one of the reasons they fall is that their populations eventually become too stupid to maintain them. In fact, every civilization before this one has fallen, and many of them lasted much longer than this one has.

Our world population has ballooned to 7 BILLION people. That's so many people that if you counted ten of them every second, it would take you almost 222 YEARS to count them all! That large a population places a huge strain on the environment and resources of our planet, and if we don't get a whole lot smarter very fast, our civilization will collapse under the weight of all those billions.

It's time to put our collective heads together and come up with solutions that will work.

So, first of all -- do you agree or not that people are becoming stupider? And what, if any, evidence can you present to support your opinion?

Secondly, if you DO agree that people are becoming stupider, what solutions can you propose to reverse that trend? What do you see as the root causes, and how would you propose to address those causes?

Thanks in advance to all who participate on the thread!

-- Paravani

Didnt they make a movie called idiocracy or something trying to make this same point. This honestly sounds like a a ugenix theory where stupid parents are going to have stupid babies. Which if thats the case I would have to disagree, Its way too broad a statement to say stupid people have more babies then smart people, and those stupid peoples babies are going to be stupid. I think the issue just lies in values, and how parents raise their children. Instead of nature Id say its more nurture. Dont get me wrong one thing I have noticed since my college days is that there are people who just are not as smart as others. When I was younger I use to think most intelligence was based on how hard you tried in school, but I no longer think that is the case.

For the first question I would say no, we have not gotten stupider; if you compare the ammount of students attending college compared to 40 years ago you could say that we have gotten smarter. Concerning our test grades as a country, again that issue can be addressed by values. Pretty much in any "rough" area that you visit is going to have a lower value on education than a "nicer" area. What I mean by that is something like graduating high school in a rough area is a big novation, as opposed to a nicer area where graduating high school is a bench mark, but for a large majority in those areas is a given. Not saying that is the case in every "rough" or "nice" area, but that is how it tends to go.That being said, college 40 years ago was a lot more competitive to get into, now there are plenty of schools who will accept pretty much anyone. College has now become a given, a bachelors degree is just about as useless now, as a GED was 20 years ago (this statement is a bit of a hyperbole). But thats the direction our education is moving. And dont get me started on how many useless degrees colleges are giving out, its almost at a criminal level. I know was friends with 4 hopeful future playwrights, I never said anything to them about it because I didnt want to shit on their dreams. But yea as you can imagine, they have degrees they cant to sh*t with and spent 90,000 to get it.

As for how to change it, charter schools. School based on performance of the teachers, and how well they teach their students.

Oh and one more thought, we are definitely more reliant on technology then we have been in the past. Take for example me, I am good at large math problems and did a lot better than I thought I would in calculus, but when it comes to basic arithmetic, I am pretty close to a mental retard. Im just so use to solving 68/7 using a calculator. Reliance on technology I dont think is a bad thing, its just how we are as a species evolving. Especially when you consider that we are doubling our information every 5 years or something, yea were gonna need technology to keep up with all of our information.

 

[auditor0007]

Hi, folks!

It's my personal belief that we as a nation are getting stupider by the day.

I don't mean that we make bad choices -- I mean that literally, our average intelligence is dropping with every new generation.

Stupid parents are having more babies than smart parents, and our well-developed civilization makes it easy for even the very stupid to survive and breed another generation.

Well, of course that's the case -- civilization is supposed to make it easy to survive. That's its whole reason for being!

... But civilizations fall; and one of the reasons they fall is that their populations eventually become too stupid to maintain them. In fact, every civilization before this one has fallen, and many of them lasted much longer than this one has.

Our world population has ballooned to 7 BILLION people. That's so many people that if you counted ten of them every second, it would take you almost 222 YEARS to count them all! That large a population places a huge strain on the environment and resources of our planet, and if we don't get a whole lot smarter very fast, our civilization will collapse under the weight of all those billions.

It's time to put our collective heads together and come up with solutions that will work.

So, first of all -- do you agree or not that people are becoming stupider? And what, if any, evidence can you present to support your opinion?

Secondly, if you DO agree that people are becoming stupider, what solutions can you propose to reverse that trend? What do you see as the root causes, and how would you propose to address those causes?

Thanks in advance to all who participate on the thread!

-- Paravani

I think America is becoming less educated, despite the fact that more people have college degrees. Beyond just smarts, there is a bigger problem. Because we have advanced so much technologically, it is really hard to find people who understand how most things work. Fields have become so specialized that even intelligent people are limited in what they actually know and understand. Someone who is a brain surgeon would be lost if his/her equipment failed. They use tools that are very advanced, but if one of those tools broke, they could not fix it themselves. Thirty years ago, a lot of people could fix their own car if something went wrong. Today, the cars are so complex that only someone specifically trained can work on your car.

While technological advancement doesn't make us dumber, I think it makes it easier for people to not want to try to understand as many things as they should.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Stop paying for peoples kids who can't afford them.

How will that increase intelligence levels?

Stupid people who work at Subway won't have 4 or 5 kids.

To the point and true!

 

[High_Gravity]

Do you have any ideas how to encourage stupid people to quit having so many kids?

And how would you define stupidity or intelligence?

Really... I appreciate any and all contributions to the topic!

-- Paravani

People have the right to have as many kids as they want.

Why is that?

 

[paravani]

This isn't a political topic either. Put this in the proper forum.

It is our policies as a nation and as a civilization that have created the problem of decreasing average intelligence.

Only by developing new policies -- which is, after all, the business of politics -- can we address this problem.

-- Paravani

 

[RDD_1210]

We? No. I'm not getting stupider. you might, but I am not.

That's only because it's actually not possible for someone to be dumber than you are. Stephanie would be the only dumber person than you. So I guess technically you still could.

That explains why you need to resort to pathetic attacks to further your position and I can argue my issues on their merits.

LOL. Holy shit thanks for the laugh. Was that you arguing on merit when you bailed out on the thread where I asked you to list one policy/position of Romneys that you didn't agree with. Not a peep from you.

"Arguing on merit" he says......Hahahhahah!

 

[RDD_1210]

I disagree 1000%. We have more access to knowledge than ever before.
There are dumb people but sometimes dumb people actually have smart children.

I think we are getting smarter. But liberals are getting lazier.

Speaking of lazy, how much laziness does it take to generalize almost 50% of the population in one broad statement? That's either lazy or dumb, or both. Your pick.

 

[paravani]

People have the right to have as many kids as they want.

Not in China, they don't. In China, it's one kid per family, unless you have special dispensation from the government (which for some reason all the politicos seem to have and the regular folks don't).

-- Paravani

 

[Misty]

Do you have any ideas how to encourage stupid people to quit having so many kids?

And how would you define stupidity or intelligence?

Really... I appreciate any and all contributions to the topic!

-- Paravani

People have the right to have as many kids as they want.

Why is that?

I think her op is condescending. If women can choose to have abortions they can also choose to have large families.

I get the whole welfare ride thing but these supposed "dumb" people already have access to free birth control and free abortions. So obviously that isn't working.

If you give them less welfare money I agree with that we feed kids breakfast lunch and dinner at school anyway.

These people aren't dumb they are lazy.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

I disagree 1000%. We have more access to knowledge than ever before.
There are dumb people but sometimes dumb people actually have smart children.

I think we are getting smarter. But liberals are getting lazier.

I hafta agree with my girl.. Libruls are very lazy and are the main support of the Public school system which has dumbed down our kids tremendously. My 6 year old doesn;t attend a public school.. I won't allow her to be indoctrinated and place last in math and science.