Are We Better Off...?

[Old Rocks]

Nine months ago, we were on the verge of the Second Great Republican Depression. Bush was forced to take the initial steps to stop the slide into the abyss, but President Obama has since done the neccessary steps to start us onto the path of recovery.

Things are getting worse at a much slower speed for the working man. And the economic indicators are looking as if by next summer, they may actually be getting better.

In the meantime, the programs for re-training of our work force are starting to show results. Many younger men in my trade are training for work on the wind mills, and in solar installation. The money is good, and the demand high.

Could President Obama done better these last nine months? Possibly. Could he have done worse? Very easily. All he had to do was follow the example of the last administration.

Given that the great party of NO, the Rushpublican party, has done all in their power to see this President fail, regardless of the consequences to the nation and it's citizens, I really think that we will see consequences for those actions at the polls in 2010.

 

[AllieBaba]

I work for the state. Our wages are frozen, so I didn't get my yearly raise. We now have to take furloughs, so my wages will go down. My insurance was switched from Blue Cross/Blue Shield to an HMO. Welfare applicants have increased by 20 percent.

But so long as the elitist crap bags are doing better by snapping up the cheap cars and getting fat off the people they've screwed over, everything's good.

Ah hah, so you are one of those government drones you constantly whine about.

And I work for a private capitalistic company. Based in Russia. And much of the steel, armor plate, that we roll goes to Isreal. While our workforce has been reduced by more than half, and most have seen short work weeks, we are still hanging on. They have not changed our benefits a bit, actually increased them, for we fossils, last year.

So you work for a government agency in the US, and I work for a Russian company in the US, and I have fared better than you. Interesting world.

Well it's to be expected.

 

[AllieBaba]

Nine months ago, we were on the verge of the Second Great Republican Depression. Bush was forced to take the initial steps to stop the slide into the abyss, but President Obama has since done the neccessary steps to start us onto the path of recovery.

Things are getting worse at a much slower speed for the working man. And the economic indicators are looking as if by next summer, they may actually be getting better.

In the meantime, the programs for re-training of our work force are starting to show results. Many younger men in my trade are training for work on the wind mills, and in solar installation. The money is good, and the demand high.

Could President Obama done better these last nine months? Possibly. Could he have done worse? Very easily. All he had to do was follow the example of the last administration.

Given that the great party of NO, the Rushpublican party, has done all in their power to see this President fail, regardless of the consequences to the nation and it's citizens, I really think that we will see consequences for those actions at the polls in 2010.

Riiiggghtt. Apparently self-delusion knows no boundaries. If Obama succeeds, it's because he's Obama. If he fails, it's because of Bush. Got it.

 

[rightwinger]

Nine months ago, we were on the verge of the Second Great Republican Depression. Bush was forced to take the initial steps to stop the slide into the abyss, but President Obama has since done the neccessary steps to start us onto the path of recovery.

Things are getting worse at a much slower speed for the working man. And the economic indicators are looking as if by next summer, they may actually be getting better.

In the meantime, the programs for re-training of our work force are starting to show results. Many younger men in my trade are training for work on the wind mills, and in solar installation. The money is good, and the demand high.

Could President Obama done better these last nine months? Possibly. Could he have done worse? Very easily. All he had to do was follow the example of the last administration.

Given that the great party of NO, the Rushpublican party, has done all in their power to see this President fail, regardless of the consequences to the nation and it's citizens, I really think that we will see consequences for those actions at the polls in 2010.

This is the greatest fear of those who hitched their ride to the "economy will fail" bandwagon.

No matter which way you spin it, the economy is getting better. We were on the brink of disaster last fall and winter and the public turned to the Government to do something about it. I notice nobody turned to private industry to reverse the damage.

Bush, to his credit, instituted some stop gap measures including TARP which were overwhelmingly opposed by his party. Obama also borrowed money to prop up a collapsing economy.

The party of gloom and doom predicted this would lead to a complete economic collapse. They refused to do anything to help, anticipating that an economic collapse would lead to an Obama defeat in the elections.

Looks like they were wrong...what do they do now?

 

[Care4all]

IS AMERICA BETTER OFF THAN WE WERE 9 MONTHS AGO?

I believe than when a new administration moves into the White House, that even if your party comes up short there is still a majority of hope that the country will move forward in a positive way.

I'll admit that I felt reservations with the Democratic Party controlling the House ,Senate and White House but I resolved to take a wait and see attitude and hope for the best.

I feel substantially let down on the economy, employment issue, government waste, bipartisanship, foreign affairs,.. ..the list goes on.

So, what's the general feeling out there?

My 401k is better than it was when we had the stock market crash last year...but stil down about 35%....

Our health insurance cost has gone up with less benefits....

Our home has lost even more value.. worth about 10% less this year than last year, so we are down about 30% in total since we bought it in 2006....

heating oil is a much better price than last year at this time....

my Property taxes went up $400 bucks, THE LORD KNOWS WHY since my value has gone down PLUS we were finally eligible for the Home Stead exemption and got that credit...the mil rate went up i suppose.... which is just utter bullcrap, my house IS WORTH 30% less!???

we are worse off over all...and i expect it to get even worse before it begins to get better and I seriously doubt that matthew and I will ever recoup from this recession/depression/stock market and credit market crash that happened in 2008...

 

[The Rabbi]

Nine months ago, we were on the verge of the Second Great Republican Depression. Bush was forced to take the initial steps to stop the slide into the abyss, but President Obama has since done the neccessary steps to start us onto the path of recovery.

Things are getting worse at a much slower speed for the working man. And the economic indicators are looking as if by next summer, they may actually be getting better.

In the meantime, the programs for re-training of our work force are starting to show results. Many younger men in my trade are training for work on the wind mills, and in solar installation. The money is good, and the demand high.

Could President Obama done better these last nine months? Possibly. Could he have done worse? Very easily. All he had to do was follow the example of the last administration.

Given that the great party of NO, the Rushpublican party, has done all in their power to see this President fail, regardless of the consequences to the nation and it's citizens, I really think that we will see consequences for those actions at the polls in 2010.

This is the greatest fear of those who hitched their ride to the "economy will fail" bandwagon.

No matter which way you spin it, the economy is getting better. We were on the brink of disaster last fall and winter and the public turned to the Government to do something about it. I notice nobody turned to private industry to reverse the damage.

Bush, to his credit, instituted some stop gap measures including TARP which were overwhelmingly opposed by his party. Obama also borrowed money to prop up a collapsing economy.

The party of gloom and doom predicted this would lead to a complete economic collapse. They refused to do anything to help, anticipating that an economic collapse would lead to an Obama defeat in the elections.

Looks like they were wrong...what do they do now?

Have any proof for that statement?

 

[AllieBaba]

Better than what?

 

[rightwinger]

Nine months ago, we were on the verge of the Second Great Republican Depression. Bush was forced to take the initial steps to stop the slide into the abyss, but President Obama has since done the neccessary steps to start us onto the path of recovery.

Things are getting worse at a much slower speed for the working man. And the economic indicators are looking as if by next summer, they may actually be getting better.

In the meantime, the programs for re-training of our work force are starting to show results. Many younger men in my trade are training for work on the wind mills, and in solar installation. The money is good, and the demand high.

Could President Obama done better these last nine months? Possibly. Could he have done worse? Very easily. All he had to do was follow the example of the last administration.

Given that the great party of NO, the Rushpublican party, has done all in their power to see this President fail, regardless of the consequences to the nation and it's citizens, I really think that we will see consequences for those actions at the polls in 2010.

This is the greatest fear of those who hitched their ride to the "economy will fail" bandwagon.

No matter which way you spin it, the economy is getting better. We were on the brink of disaster last fall and winter and the public turned to the Government to do something about it. I notice nobody turned to private industry to reverse the damage.

Bush, to his credit, instituted some stop gap measures including TARP which were overwhelmingly opposed by his party. Obama also borrowed money to prop up a collapsing economy.

The party of gloom and doom predicted this would lead to a complete economic collapse. They refused to do anything to help, anticipating that an economic collapse would lead to an Obama defeat in the elections.

Looks like they were wrong...what do they do now?

Have any proof for that statement?[/QUOTE]

Their votes

 

[The Rabbi]

This is the greatest fear of those who hitched their ride to the "economy will fail" bandwagon.

No matter which way you spin it, the economy is getting better. We were on the brink of disaster last fall and winter and the public turned to the Government to do something about it. I notice nobody turned to private industry to reverse the damage.

Bush, to his credit, instituted some stop gap measures including TARP which were overwhelmingly opposed by his party. Obama also borrowed money to prop up a collapsing economy.

The party of gloom and doom predicted this would lead to a complete economic collapse. They refused to do anything to help, anticipating that an economic collapse would lead to an Obama defeat in the elections.

Looks like they were wrong...what do they do now?

Have any proof for that statement?[/QUOTE]

Their votes

Huh?
Their votes predicted that passage of the Obama plan would lead to complete economic collapse??
WTF??

 

[MaggieMae]

I think it's probably the lowest form of a copout to throw the word racist or racism out there, when it's completely inappropriate. It's subhuman actually.

I don't think any of these rich, candy ass lawyers gives two craps about the debt they are piling on this nation and future kids, and I see difficult times ahead. Hell, these are some of the worst times I've ever seen in my life. I feel like I have a second job trying to find friends work. I know friends who have lost homes. I know many struggling. The middle class is under attack, and all because Obama couldn't cut spending and reduce taxation to spur jobs and the economy. It was government and the rich first, and here we are today. We needed this government cut in half yesterday and actually REFORMED. I won't see it in my lifetime, don't think the American people have the courage for the government they should have. Instead, they are getting the government they deserve, an oppressive thief.

It took a decade to reach this point, yet it's all Obama's fault in nine months. That's where your logic totally fails.

Read the article from THE WEEK I previously posted, and learn something.

 

[MaggieMae]

We are starting to regain some of that lost wealth from the previous administration

I swear to God, he said that.

Go ask the American people if they are seeing this new found wealth.

You expect miracles overnight. Thinking grownups understand that this is a terrible recession and that there is no quick fix. After all this time, however, I still await with bated breath for one of you, ANYONE, to post an alternative solution--a quick fix. But all you can do is whine and bitch about that which you can't do a fucking thing about except wait until the crisis has passed.

 

[MaggieMae]

There was bound to be some kind of recovery.
But with the stimulus having only spent about 10% of what was allocated you can't attribute it to the stimulus. House prices are rising in part because the gov't is subsidizing loans to people who can't afford to pay for them. Sound familiar? How did we get here to begin with?But unemployment continues to rise. We have lost many jobs since January, and are about to lose more as GM closes Saturn. Employers are looking at a bunch of new taxes and mandates courtesy of team Obama and saying we're gonna wait and see before hiring anyone.
The only bright spots are overseas. Those countries eschewed an Obama type bail out and are seeing their economies recover nicely, without the burden of enormous gov't deficits. Any US company doing a lot of business overseas will be doing well, especially since they get paid in Euros and then translate those earnings into weaker dollars.

A home for everyone, that's how. Begun with some semblance of regulation under Clinton, the Bush administration took home ownership for minorities one step further in 2003 by promoting no down payment, easing of qualifications, low interest rates, and partnership with independent mortgage companies (i.e., Countrywide) which screwed the entire housing market.

TARP money (loans, not free money) kept the major financial institutions at least enough intact so that the entire flow of credit didn't get washed away on a global basis, money and credit that private enterprises need to keep their doors open. If GM and Chrysler had been allowed to go bellyup, so would the tens of thousands of supporting businesses.

You can following the stimulus money, almost daily, here:
Eye on the Stimulus - ProPublica

I get tired of explaining the reasons WHY things were done they way they were. Why don't YOU explain how YOU would have done things any differently taking into consideration the speed with which the economy began to crash.

I meant that to say "skewed" but I've decided "screwed" is actually better.

 

[MaggieMae]

Glad to oblige, Rav.

Oh, also, the company my son worked for shut down, so he's been unemployed all summer.

On the up side, the schools are THROWING money at students. So if you're so inclined, this is a REALLY good time to head back to school. It won't last forever. This is from my son, who just started trade school and was amazed at how much he received, and how easy it was.

Good for him. Would you have preferred there was no help available for him to learn a trade and find a job?

 

[MaggieMae]

Nine months ago, we were on the verge of the Second Great Republican Depression. Bush was forced to take the initial steps to stop the slide into the abyss, but President Obama has since done the neccessary steps to start us onto the path of recovery.

Things are getting worse at a much slower speed for the working man. And the economic indicators are looking as if by next summer, they may actually be getting better.

In the meantime, the programs for re-training of our work force are starting to show results. Many younger men in my trade are training for work on the wind mills, and in solar installation. The money is good, and the demand high.

Could President Obama done better these last nine months? Possibly. Could he have done worse? Very easily. All he had to do was follow the example of the last administration.

Given that the great party of NO, the Rushpublican party, has done all in their power to see this President fail, regardless of the consequences to the nation and it's citizens, I really think that we will see consequences for those actions at the polls in 2010.

Riiiggghtt. Apparently self-delusion knows no boundaries. If Obama succeeds, it's because he's Obama. If he fails, it's because of Bush. Got it.

In large part, yes. Tell me how Bush's massive tax cuts touted to improve the economy forever kept the economy stable? They didn't. Nothing trickled down except the fancy words, which people believed so they got in debt up to their eyeballs trying to live the promised American Dream of having it all but not having to pay for it.

 

[The Rabbi]

There was bound to be some kind of recovery.
But with the stimulus having only spent about 10% of what was allocated you can't attribute it to the stimulus. House prices are rising in part because the gov't is subsidizing loans to people who can't afford to pay for them. Sound familiar? How did we get here to begin with?But unemployment continues to rise. We have lost many jobs since January, and are about to lose more as GM closes Saturn. Employers are looking at a bunch of new taxes and mandates courtesy of team Obama and saying we're gonna wait and see before hiring anyone.
The only bright spots are overseas. Those countries eschewed an Obama type bail out and are seeing their economies recover nicely, without the burden of enormous gov't deficits. Any US company doing a lot of business overseas will be doing well, especially since they get paid in Euros and then translate those earnings into weaker dollars.

A home for everyone, that's how. Begun with some semblance of regulation under Clinton, the Bush administration took home ownership for minorities one step further in 2003 by promoting no down payment, easing of qualifications, low interest rates, and partnership with independent mortgage companies (i.e., Countrywide) which screwed the entire housing market.

TARP money (loans, not bailouts) kept the major financial institutions at least enough intact so that the entire flow of credit didn't get washed away on a global basis, money and credit that private enterprises need to keep their doors open. If GM and Chrysler had been allowed to go bellyup, so would the tens of thousands of supporting businesses.

You can following the stimulus money, almost daily, here:
Eye on the Stimulus - ProPublica

I get tired of explaining the reasons WHY things were done they way they were. Why don't YOU explain how YOU would have done things any differently taking into consideration the speed with which the economy began to crash.

Those programs were pushed by Rep Barney Frank sometimes over the objections of Republicans in Congress. So blaming Bush for this is getting old.
GM did go belly up, as did Chrysler. Or don't you read the papers.
The only blame I can assign to Bush was naming Bernanke Fed Secretary. He held rates too low and ignited this speculative bubble.
What would I have done? I would have stabilized the banking system (banks had ceased lending to each other), and then sat back and watched the individual banks fail and arranged for orderly sales of their assets. I would have cut taxes, esp for businesses and I would have made the Bush tax cuts permanent. It would have been far cheaper and resulted in a quicker more sustainable recovery.
As it is, we have decided that some banks are too big to fail and created moral hazard all over the place. GM is still a mess. A real bankruptcy would have cleaned out their problems.

 

[MaggieMae]

There was bound to be some kind of recovery.
But with the stimulus having only spent about 10% of what was allocated you can't attribute it to the stimulus. House prices are rising in part because the gov't is subsidizing loans to people who can't afford to pay for them. Sound familiar? How did we get here to begin with?But unemployment continues to rise. We have lost many jobs since January, and are about to lose more as GM closes Saturn. Employers are looking at a bunch of new taxes and mandates courtesy of team Obama and saying we're gonna wait and see before hiring anyone.
The only bright spots are overseas. Those countries eschewed an Obama type bail out and are seeing their economies recover nicely, without the burden of enormous gov't deficits. Any US company doing a lot of business overseas will be doing well, especially since they get paid in Euros and then translate those earnings into weaker dollars.

A home for everyone, that's how. Begun with some semblance of regulation under Clinton, the Bush administration took home ownership for minorities one step further in 2003 by promoting no down payment, easing of qualifications, low interest rates, and partnership with independent mortgage companies (i.e., Countrywide) which screwed the entire housing market.

TARP money (loans, not bailouts) kept the major financial institutions at least enough intact so that the entire flow of credit didn't get washed away on a global basis, money and credit that private enterprises need to keep their doors open. If GM and Chrysler had been allowed to go bellyup, so would the tens of thousands of supporting businesses.

You can following the stimulus money, almost daily, here:
Eye on the Stimulus - ProPublica

I get tired of explaining the reasons WHY things were done they way they were. Why don't YOU explain how YOU would have done things any differently taking into consideration the speed with which the economy began to crash.

Those programs were pushed by Rep Barney Frank sometimes over the objections of Republicans in Congress. So blaming Bush for this is getting old.
GM did go belly up, as did Chrysler. Or don't you read the papers.
The only blame I can assign to Bush was naming Bernanke Fed Secretary. He held rates too low and ignited this speculative bubble.
What would I have done? I would have stabilized the banking system (banks had ceased lending to each other), and then sat back and watched the individual banks fail and arranged for orderly sales of their assets. I would have cut taxes, esp for businesses and I would have made the Bush tax cuts permanent. It would have been far cheaper and resulted in a quicker more sustainable recovery.
As it is, we have decided that some banks are too big to fail and created moral hazard all over the place. GM is still a mess. A real bankruptcy would have cleaned out their problems.

And how long would that have taken? Months? Years? We weren't looking at that much time. Bear-Stearns and Lehman Brothers went under within 24 hours, and thereafter the dominos began falling like...well...dominos.

As for blaming Barney Franks for the housing mess, that also is only half the story. I don't think the link to this works, because it's been taken down from the whitehouse.gov website (new president and all). But here is what the Bush administration put out a rallying cry for. Yes, the BA indeed needs to be blamed for the housing crisis.

Expanding Home Ownership
Issues

"This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."

- President George W. Bush, December 16, 2003

Increasing Homeownership

The US homeownership rate reached a record 69.2 percent in the second quarter of 2004. The number of homeowners in the United States reached 73.4 million, the most ever. And for the first time, the majority of minority Americans own their own homes.

The President set a goal to increase the number of minority homeowners by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade. Through his homeownership challenge, the President called on the private sector to help in this effort. More than two dozen companies and organizations have made commitments to increase minority homeownership - including pledges to provide more than $1.1 trillion in mortgage purchases for minority homebuyers this decade.

President Bush signed the $200 million-per-year American Dream Downpayment Act which will help approximately 40,000 families each year with their downpayment and closing costs.

The Administration proposed the Zero-Downpayment Initiative to allow the Federal Housing Administration to insure mortgages for first-time homebuyers without a downpayment. Projections indicate this could generate over 150,000 new homeowners in the first year alone.

President Bush proposed a new Single Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit to increase the supply of affordable homes.

The President has proposed to more than double funding for the Self-Help Homeownership Opportunity Program (SHOP), where government and non-profit organizations work closely together to increase homeownership opportunities.

The President proposed $2.7 billion in USDA home loan guarantees to support rural homeownership and $1.1 billion in direct loans for low-income borrowers unable to secure a mortgage through a conventional lender. These loans are expected to provide 42,800 homeownership opportunities to rural families across America.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

A home for everyone, that's how. Begun with some semblance of regulation under Clinton, the Bush administration took home ownership for minorities one step further in 2003 by promoting no down payment, easing of qualifications, low interest rates, and partnership with independent mortgage companies (i.e., Countrywide) which screwed the entire housing market.

At the BEGGING AND PLEADING of Wall Street and lenders when they realized bundling and selling mortgages (any mortgages) was a gold mine... This is where regulations should have stepped in, so no, the government is not solely responsible with "a home for everyone" stance. It wasn't about getting as many people into homes as possible... It was about easy $$$ financed with OUR 401K's.

 

[The Rabbi]

And how long would that have taken? Months? Years? We weren't looking at that much time. Bear-Stearns and Lehman Brothers went under within 24 hours, and thereafter the dominos began falling like...well...dominos.

As for blaming Barney Franks for the housing mess, that also is only half the story. I don't think the link to this works, because it's been taken down from the whitehouse.gov website (new president and all). But here is what the Bush administration put out a rallying cry for. Yes, the BA indeed needs to be blamed for the housing crisis.

.

Expanding housing has been the goal of every administration since WW2.
As for how long it would have taken, announcing it wouldn't have taken long at all. Shoring up the banking system could have taken as little as 48 hours. A strong pro business program would have had an effect the moment it was announced.
The Keynsian stimulus model is a proven failure, as demonstrated this AM in the WSJ.

 

[AllieBaba]

There was bound to be some kind of recovery.
But with the stimulus having only spent about 10% of what was allocated you can't attribute it to the stimulus. House prices are rising in part because the gov't is subsidizing loans to people who can't afford to pay for them. Sound familiar? How did we get here to begin with?But unemployment continues to rise. We have lost many jobs since January, and are about to lose more as GM closes Saturn. Employers are looking at a bunch of new taxes and mandates courtesy of team Obama and saying we're gonna wait and see before hiring anyone.
The only bright spots are overseas. Those countries eschewed an Obama type bail out and are seeing their economies recover nicely, without the burden of enormous gov't deficits. Any US company doing a lot of business overseas will be doing well, especially since they get paid in Euros and then translate those earnings into weaker dollars.

A home for everyone, that's how. Begun with some semblance of regulation under Clinton, the Bush administration took home ownership for minorities one step further in 2003 by promoting no down payment, easing of qualifications, low interest rates, and partnership with independent mortgage companies (i.e., Countrywide) which screwed the entire housing market.

TARP money (loans, not free money) kept the major financial institutions at least enough intact so that the entire flow of credit didn't get washed away on a global basis, money and credit that private enterprises need to keep their doors open. If GM and Chrysler had been allowed to go bellyup, so would the tens of thousands of supporting businesses.

You can following the stimulus money, almost daily, here:
Eye on the Stimulus - ProPublica

I get tired of explaining the reasons WHY things were done they way they were. Why don't YOU explain how YOU would have done things any differently taking into consideration the speed with which the economy began to crash.

I meant that to say "skewed" but I've decided "screwed" is actually better.

Actually Bush REPEATEDLY went to Congress begging them to regulate the crap "a home for everyone" b.s.

And repeatedly the Dem Congress told him he was fear mongering and there was nothing to worry about, and sent him packing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There was bound to be some kind of recovery.
But with the stimulus having only spent about 10% of what was allocated you can't attribute it to the stimulus. House prices are rising in part because the gov't is subsidizing loans to people who can't afford to pay for them. Sound familiar? How did we get here to begin with?But unemployment continues to rise. We have lost many jobs since January, and are about to lose more as GM closes Saturn. Employers are looking at a bunch of new taxes and mandates courtesy of team Obama and saying we're gonna wait and see before hiring anyone.
The only bright spots are overseas. Those countries eschewed an Obama type bail out and are seeing their economies recover nicely, without the burden of enormous gov't deficits. Any US company doing a lot of business overseas will be doing well, especially since they get paid in Euros and then translate those earnings into weaker dollars.

A home for everyone, that's how. Begun with some semblance of regulation under Clinton, the Bush administration took home ownership for minorities one step further in 2003 by promoting no down payment, easing of qualifications, low interest rates, and partnership with independent mortgage companies (i.e., Countrywide) which screwed the entire housing market.

TARP money (loans, not free money) kept the major financial institutions at least enough intact so that the entire flow of credit didn't get washed away on a global basis, money and credit that private enterprises need to keep their doors open. If GM and Chrysler had been allowed to go bellyup, so would the tens of thousands of supporting businesses.

You can following the stimulus money, almost daily, here:
Eye on the Stimulus - ProPublica

I get tired of explaining the reasons WHY things were done they way they were. Why don't YOU explain how YOU would have done things any differently taking into consideration the speed with which the economy began to crash.

I meant that to say "skewed" but I've decided "screwed" is actually better.

Actually Bush REPEATEDLY went to Congress begging them to regulate the crap "a home for everyone" b.s.

And repeatedly the Dem Congress told him he was fear mongering and there was nothing to worry about, and sent him packing.

Nope, he didn't. You haven't produced the evidence to support your contention because it does not exists. Let's move on here.