Are There Any Moderates Here?

[Divine Wind]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Why would being raised in the South and doing a hitch in the Marine Corps make you liberal?

I was raised an Army brat, primarily in Southern states and Colorado, and also served in the Marine Corps yet I'm moderate conservative. Mostly libertarian although I disagree with their stance on international relations and national defense.

I was trying to say that, by nature, I am left-leaning. But perhaps because of the environment I've lived in for most of my life, I'm a moderate liberal rather than left on all the issues or even a regressive leftist. Since I've always been surrounded by those that oppose my core ideology, I've had to try and see things from their point of view (which is a healthy thing) and, by doing that, I agree with, or at least understand, a lot of things on the Conservative side of the fence.

To be sure, being in the South and being in the military are things that influence most people to be Conservative or Conservative-leaning.

Being able to see both sides of an issue, regardless of one's personal preferences, is part of being a "moderate". Obviously the LWLs and RWNJs can only see their own point of view.

You say left-leaning, I say right-leaning, but it's more complicated than that. A favorite personal political maxim is "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. I don't give a shit what you do, just don't do it in my yard or make me pay for it". The RWNJ's call me a fucking lib and the LWLs call me a fucking con. You can make your own call on it.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't know about you guys, but I know damn well that (as of this moment on the poll) 47.8% of the people here are not "no political affiliation".

What a crock of shit.

It's a tenth that, maybe, at most.


.

 

[Flopper]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Why would being raised in the South and doing a hitch in the Marine Corps make you liberal?

I was raised an Army brat, primarily in Southern states and Colorado, and also served in the Marine Corps yet I'm moderate conservative. Mostly libertarian although I disagree with their stance on international relations and national defense.

I was trying to say that, by nature, I am left-leaning. But perhaps because of the environment I've lived in for most of my life, I'm a moderate liberal rather than left on all the issues or even a regressive leftist. Since I've always been surrounded by those that oppose my core ideology, I've had to try and see things from their point of view (which is a healthy thing) and, by doing that, I agree with, or at least understand, a lot of things on the Conservative side of the fence.

To be sure, being in the South and being in the military are things that influence most people to be Conservative or Conservative-leaning.

Being able to see both sides of an issue, regardless of one's personal preferences, is part of being a "moderate". Obviously the LWLs and RWNJs can only see their own point of view.

You say left-leaning, I say right-leaning, but it's more complicated than that. A favorite personal political maxim is "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. I don't give a shit what you do, just don't do it in my yard or make me pay for it". The RWNJ's call me a fucking lib and the LWLs call me a fucking con. You can make your own call on it.

You raise a good point. You can be a liberal on one issue and conservative on another. In fact, when you leave the the fantasy of political blogs, and bulletin boards and talk to people who spend 99% of their time earning a living, taking care their family, and their home, you'll find they have varied views on most of the hot button issues. They also have conflicting opinions. They may agree with rigid enforcement of immigration laws and also believe we should not have mass deportation and should have a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. They may want strong boarders but no wall, and they may hate big government but are strong supporters of aid to education, or housing for the homeless, freedom of speech but less bias in the news.

As much as it may seem when reading this board, we are not all cut from the same mold. We may support our party to the hilt, but deep down we still have differing beliefs from what ever ideology we claim.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

If You've Heard of Someone, Don't Listen to Him.

Politics is a spitball fight at a prep school. It is a specious spectrum. Be a political atheist; don't follow any of these ignorant and self-serving gurus.

 

[Boss]

The Trumpsters are kind of a different animal. I wasn't here for previous elections, so maybe it's nothing new, but with the Trumpsters, it's more about adulating the POTUS than about any particular policy. Giggle at a Trump joke, make a stray comment about one of his doofy alternate facts and BOOM. You are a fuckin' libtard and anti-American to boot. They're a special breed of winger.

I'm on the proverbial outside looking in. I didn't vote for Trump. I was a Cruz supporter in the primaries and I was glad Hillary didn't win, but I had numerous problems with Trump on policy and still do. He is the most liberal republican of my lifetime.

The thing that I don't think the left is getting here, and maybe they never will, is that Trump's supporters are dishing out exactly the kind of thing the left has dished out to the right for the past 20 years. You're getting at taste of your own medicine and you don't like it.

You're right, his most avid supporters will stand behind him no matter what he does. He totally eviscerated Jeb Bush in the primaries over his "compassionate" position toward the children of illegals.... crucified the man in the debates... called him every name in the book while insisting on a hard line in applying the law. Now that he has won, his position is pretty much EXACTLY the Jeb Bush position on this issue. Does this matter to his fan base? Not a bit! They don't care.

He has flip-flopped on all kinds of things.... supports more family leave... increasing the minimum wage... infrastructure stimulus... global warming... ethanol subsidies... nationalized child care... single payer healthcare... do his fans care? Nadda! He is their Rock Star Obama and he can do no wrong. If you try and have a rational conversation with them, you're an idiot and moron who isn't worthy to even speak your opinion.

What the left doesn't seem to realize is, THEY created this monster. It was their failure to moderate, to come together, to work with the other side in any kind of meaningful way on ANY issue, that paved the way for a new kind of Republican.... and it's one you can't handle.

 

[Markle]

It is impossible to LOGICALLY defend being a liberal on social issues and at the same time being a Conservative regarding government and its role. It is impossible to provide the benefits demanded by Progressives WITHOUT the government stealing the money from taxpayers. It cannot be done!

And yet it is done, but perhaps I should have better explained "social issues" such as education and healthcare...those things are no more stealing from taxpayers than the military is in my opinion, the government is here to aid and assist all of us, but not support us...that goes for everything from making sure the poorest have food every night to low interest loans for huge corporations to expand and grow the economy.

Stealing taxpayer money to subsidize others is Socialism, plain and simple. The redistribution of wealth. is contrary to our core values.

 

[Markle]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Personally, I think there is a significant difference between a moderate and an independent.

I consider myself an independent, meaning my views can be just as strong as those of any winger - the differences are (a) they don't fall conveniently and obediently in line with those of a "side", and (b) my views often conflict with those of wingers from both sides of the same issue. In other words, a perspective that is independent from both ends.

So to me, "wingers" from both ends essentially represent one side: Wingers! The flavor (left or right) is, for the most part, irrelevant.

A moderate/centrist, to me, will tend to have fewer passionate views. That doesn't make their views any less important, though.
.

Independent = Moderate Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

No core values. At least none that can make sense.

Wrong.

Instead of generalities, bring up any issue and I'll be as clear and specific on it as you are.

The only difference is that I have no interest in "playing" for one "side".
.

A position on a particular subject is not a core value. You either believe in personal responsibility or you do not. You either believe in the government owning and running businesses or you do not. Plain and simple.

 

[yiostheoy]

I myself lean right but mostly vote split ticket.

Thank you for asking.

Good question.

Did I vote for Hillary or Donald ??

For neither.

 

[Mac1958]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Personally, I think there is a significant difference between a moderate and an independent.

I consider myself an independent, meaning my views can be just as strong as those of any winger - the differences are (a) they don't fall conveniently and obediently in line with those of a "side", and (b) my views often conflict with those of wingers from both sides of the same issue. In other words, a perspective that is independent from both ends.

So to me, "wingers" from both ends essentially represent one side: Wingers! The flavor (left or right) is, for the most part, irrelevant.

A moderate/centrist, to me, will tend to have fewer passionate views. That doesn't make their views any less important, though.
.

Independent = Moderate Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

No core values. At least none that can make sense.

Wrong.

Instead of generalities, bring up any issue and I'll be as clear and specific on it as you are.

The only difference is that I have no interest in "playing" for one "side".
.

A position on a particular subject is not a core value. You either believe in personal responsibility or you do not. You either believe in the government owning and running businesses or you do not. Plain and simple.

It's when people fall into simplistic, binary thought patterns that they become impossible to communicate with.

It's these people who want to control the definitions of terms like "personal responsibility", "freedom" and "liberty".

Ultimately they do little more than hamper constructive communication and progress.
.

 

[Doc1]

You don't have the correct category for me, I am two ticks to the Right of Center. I detest Schumer and McConnell equally.

 

[Vastator]

I'm a conservative who on occasion agrees with some liberal posters on certain issues. Mostly those regarding free will, and victimless crimes.

 

[yiostheoy]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

The arguments themselves tend to be polarized, but this is because the issues are polarizing.

To wit:

- Abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution.

- Roe v. Wade is law albeit bad law.

- States have rights as well.

- Church and State are separated by the 1st Amendment.

- Many evangelists (vocal Protestants) deny the 1st Amendment.

- Everyone has a right to self defense.

- Firearms are the very best self defense.

- Anti gun groups infest the far left.

- the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to firearms ownership in the home, however the States are granted the right to regulate them in public possession per Scalia in Heller.

- Scalia died.

- Gorsuch will most likely become a swing voter like Kennedy (his mentor) and Roberts.

- ACA provides insurance to the poor.

- GOP hates ACA primarily because of the way BHO forced it down their throats without their concurrence.

- the Preamble to the Constitution mentions "the common welfare".

- the far right denies the common welfare of the people of the Nation.

These and many other issues are polarizing.

 

[yiostheoy]

You don't have the correct category for me, I am two ticks to the Right of Center. I detest Schumer and McConnell equally.

I think Schumer will be valuable in protecting Social Security, Medicare, and ACA.

I think McConnell will be valuable in protecting 2A.

They are both useful.

 

[Flopper]

The Trumpsters are kind of a different animal. I wasn't here for previous elections, so maybe it's nothing new, but with the Trumpsters, it's more about adulating the POTUS than about any particular policy. Giggle at a Trump joke, make a stray comment about one of his doofy alternate facts and BOOM. You are a fuckin' libtard and anti-American to boot. They're a special breed of winger.

I'm on the proverbial outside looking in. I didn't vote for Trump. I was a Cruz supporter in the primaries and I was glad Hillary didn't win, but I had numerous problems with Trump on policy and still do. He is the most liberal republican of my lifetime.

The thing that I don't think the left is getting here, and maybe they never will, is that Trump's supporters are dishing out exactly the kind of thing the left has dished out to the right for the past 20 years. You're getting at taste of your own medicine and you don't like it.

You're right, his most avid supporters will stand behind him no matter what he does. He totally eviscerated Jeb Bush in the primaries over his "compassionate" position toward the children of illegals.... crucified the man in the debates... called him every name in the book while insisting on a hard line in applying the law. Now that he has won, his position is pretty much EXACTLY the Jeb Bush position on this issue. Does this matter to his fan base? Not a bit! They don't care.

He has flip-flopped on all kinds of things.... supports more family leave... increasing the minimum wage... infrastructure stimulus... global warming... ethanol subsidies... nationalized child care... single payer healthcare... do his fans care? Nadda! He is their Rock Star Obama and he can do no wrong. If you try and have a rational conversation with them, you're an idiot and moron who isn't worthy to even speak your opinion.

What the left doesn't seem to realize is, THEY created this monster. It was their failure to moderate, to come together, to work with the other side in any kind of meaningful way on ANY issue, that paved the way for a new kind of Republican.... and it's one you can't handle.

Trump's backpedaling on many of his positions during the campaign makes it necessary to keep campaigning even thou he's been elected. He has to keep the support of his base. Presidents usually abandon the campaigning once elected at least for the first two years to concentrate on running the country. They try to adopt the father of their country image, a leader beyond jousting with reporters and disputing crowd sizes, but not Trump.

If you take the time to study leaders like Trump. You'll see they never stop campaigning. Hitler's speeches and rallies before he became Chancellor were no different than after he became Chancellor. It has been much the same with other charismatic populous leaders. They need those cheers and thousands shouting their name.

 

[yiostheoy]

It's when people fall into simplistic, binary thought patterns that they become impossible to communicate with.

It's these people who want to control the definitions of terms like "personal responsibility", "freedom" and "liberty".

Ultimately they do little more than hamper constructive communication and progress.
.

Good definition of the GOP from 2008 through 2016.

Probably will also suffice now as a good definition of the DEM's from 2017 on until they can regain control of Congress again.

 

[yiostheoy]

Trump's backpedaling on many of his positions during the campaign makes it necessary to keep campaigning even thou he's been elected. He has to keep the support of his base. Presidents usually abandon the campaigning once elected at least for the first two years. They try to adopt the father of their country image, a leader beyond jousting with reporters and disputing crowd sizes, but not Trump. If you take the time to study leaders like Trump. You'll see they never stop campaigning. Hitler's speeches and rallies before he became chancellor were no different than after he became Chancellor. It has been much the same with other charismatic populous leaders. They need those cheers and thousands shouting their name.

You're in the wrong thread.

There is another thread on your topic.

And why do you bold your type? Are you going blind ??

 

[yiostheoy]

A position on a particular subject is not a core value. You either believe in personal responsibility or you do not. You either believe in the government owning and running businesses or you do not. Plain and simple.

Yours/these are rather shallow core values.

You should believe in majority rule subject to constitutional limits instead.

You sound rather myopic and selfish to me.

 

[Markle]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Personally, I think there is a significant difference between a moderate and an independent.

I consider myself an independent, meaning my views can be just as strong as those of any winger - the differences are (a) they don't fall conveniently and obediently in line with those of a "side", and (b) my views often conflict with those of wingers from both sides of the same issue. In other words, a perspective that is independent from both ends.

So to me, "wingers" from both ends essentially represent one side: Wingers! The flavor (left or right) is, for the most part, irrelevant.

A moderate/centrist, to me, will tend to have fewer passionate views. That doesn't make their views any less important, though.
.

Independent = Moderate Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

No core values. At least none that can make sense.

Wrong.

Instead of generalities, bring up any issue and I'll be as clear and specific on it as you are.

The only difference is that I have no interest in "playing" for one "side".
.

A position on a particular subject is not a core value. You either believe in personal responsibility or you do not. You either believe in the government owning and running businesses or you do not. Plain and simple.

It's when people fall into simplistic, binary thought patterns that they become impossible to communicate with.

It's these people who want to control the definitions of terms like "personal responsibility", "freedom" and "liberty".

Ultimately they do little more than hamper constructive communication and progress.
.

It is for those very reasons that Progressives refuse to look at or read views opposed to their own. Conservatives, on the other hand, are much more likely to consider opposing views. The reason for the difference is that Progressives are very insecure in their views and fear being swayed by facts.

 

[Flopper]

Trump's backpedaling on many of his positions during the campaign makes it necessary to keep campaigning even thou he's been elected. He has to keep the support of his base. Presidents usually abandon the campaigning once elected at least for the first two years. They try to adopt the father of their country image, a leader beyond jousting with reporters and disputing crowd sizes, but not Trump. If you take the time to study leaders like Trump. You'll see they never stop campaigning. Hitler's speeches and rallies before he became chancellor were no different than after he became Chancellor. It has been much the same with other charismatic populous leaders. They need those cheers and thousands shouting their name.

You're in the wrong thread.

There is another thread on your topic.

And why do you bold your type? Are you going blind ??

Yes

 

[Toro]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Personally, I think there is a significant difference between a moderate and an independent.

I consider myself an independent, meaning my views can be just as strong as those of any winger - the differences are (a) they don't fall conveniently and obediently in line with those of a "side", and (b) my views often conflict with those of wingers from both sides of the same issue. In other words, a perspective that is independent from both ends.

So to me, "wingers" from both ends essentially represent one side: Wingers! The flavor (left or right) is, for the most part, irrelevant.

A moderate/centrist, to me, will tend to have fewer passionate views. That doesn't make their views any less important, though.
.

Independent = Moderate Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

No core values. At least none that can make sense.

Wrong.

Instead of generalities, bring up any issue and I'll be as clear and specific on it as you are.

The only difference is that I have no interest in "playing" for one "side".
.

A position on a particular subject is not a core value. You either believe in personal responsibility or you do not. You either believe in the government owning and running businesses or you do not. Plain and simple.

It's when people fall into simplistic, binary thought patterns that they become impossible to communicate with.

It's these people who want to control the definitions of terms like "personal responsibility", "freedom" and "liberty".

Ultimately they do little more than hamper constructive communication and progress.
.

Yup.

It's all about checking the box to determine if you are a good little liberal/conservative/whatever.