Are There Any Moderates Here?

[AntonToo]

This is the reason why I firmly believe Trump to be the most cogent danger to America in modern history...far moreso than Muslim terrorists, North Korea, Russia, China, or Iran.

Trump is actively looking to divide America and create the Divided States of America. Instead of reaching across "battle lines" and trying to find common ground...as any leader of a nation would, Trump is looking to further entrench on his side of the fence and widen the gap. One of the criticisms thrown at Obama, that I fully agree with is that he allowed for great social divides to develop during his time in office (although I disagree that he encouraged those divides). It is interesting that Trumpers, who commonly point towards this as a clear reason why Obama was not a good leader, seemingly turn a blind eye when a person who they support actively divides America moreso than Obama ever had.

He's not gonna reach "common ground" with you. The whole entire concept of "common ground" for the left is... "you go along with what we want and we won't attack you and call you names until tomorrow!"

Fuck you... He won the election, now he's going to govern and you're going to accept it or not accept it... he doesn't care. This whining for "bipartisanship" is for losers and wimps.

Obama literally set racial relations back 50 years in this country by agitating and instigating divisiveness through his unwarranted rhetoric and interjection into events he had no business getting involved with. Treyvon, Cambridge, Ferguson, etc., etc., etc. He had to jump in and stir the shit. Rather than BE A LEADER and call for civility and try to calm things down, he escalated them and continued to pour gasoline on the fires. Trump isn't doing that... every opportunity he's had, he offers to reach out and talk to blacks, the Congressional Black Caucus, black leaders... they get called "mediocre negroes" by the hateful left just for meeting with him.

The problem here is, you see things from a distinctly left-wing perspective. No one can talk to you... you're stubbornly mired in your own rhetoric. What you fail to understand is, a huge chunk of America doesn't agree with your identity politics and they're onto your strategy now. They see what you're doing and come 2018, you're going to get your political clocks cleaned AGAIN. Perhaps then, some of you will start reeling it back in and be ready to engage in civil debate.... or maybe not? Who fucking knows?

Obama? Set race relations back to segregation years? You are a fucking idiot to believe that.

Love how you throw in something about people being too biased in their perspective to be talked to. That's some seriously thick irony there mr.rightwing nutter.

 

[Muhammed]

I'm a centrist.

But there is no way in hell I will ever vote Democrat. I believe that the party of slavery is just plain evil.

Then you are not a centrist.

You are an extremist.

Bullshit.

 

[AntonToo]

I'm a centrist.

But there is no way in hell I will ever vote Democrat. I believe that the party of slavery is just plain evil.

Then you are not a centrist.

You are an extremist.

Bullshit.

No, not bullshit. If you believe Democrats are EVIL then you are a total fringe nut double timing on the koolaid. Time to look in that mirror bud.

 

[Muhammed]

I'm a centrist.

But there is no way in hell I will ever vote Democrat. I believe that the party of slavery is just plain evil.

Then you are not a centrist.

You are an extremist.

Bullshit.

No, not bullshit. If you believe Democrats are EVIL then you are a total fringe nut double timing on the koolaid. Time to look in that mirror bud.

So when did you become so pro-slavery that you think that those opposed to the party of slavery are "fringe nuts"?

 

[Flopper]

I brought up the dispute of crowd size at his inauguration simply to point out that something so trivial should be immaterial to the president as should the size of the popular vote and the constant criticism of by the media.

Welp... this is a different kind of president. Indeed, it IS trivial and the NY Times should've never started it by publishing the bogus photo. Nor should all the hullabaloo ensued over the popular vote. It's simply childish and immature. But Trump isn't going to let this stuff go and "rise above it" like other Republican presidents might have... he is going to use it to bludgeon the opposition and make them wish they'd kept their mouths shut. He's going to rub their noses in the absurdity for the whole world to see, mocking them every step of the way.

Thursday's press conference is a great example of the perceptive contrast between the left and right. Most on the left saw Trump as being agitated and upset at the media... the right saw him handing their asses to them. The lefties were shocked and appalled, the righties cheered in fist-pumping jubilation. Finally, someone let these media assholes have it!

And here's the thing, this is going to keep on happening and he will continue turning it into political points like he's been doing for nearly two years now. I stand by the statement I made back when the primaries first started... the ONLY way to defeat Trump is on substance and issues. This attacking over personality plays right into his expert hands and he will continue to make you look like fools.

The president can use his time in office to battle the media or he can spend his time managing the government and sponsoring incentives and legislation, which by the way is his job. However, he will eventually not be able to do both because the media will keep increasing their attacks and investigations because they want to engage the president and each time he recognizes them by calling them out by name, network, or show it only increases their incentive to do more. Yes, they want to be called out as the lying dishonest media. They love it. What Trump is doing is exactly what the media did for him during the campaign. He is giving them media time bringing them into the spotlight. What more could they hope for. There job is to increase ratings, increase their hit rates, or increase their readership, what better way to do that than to be recognized by the president.

 

[Boss]

Me being against Trump does not mean I'm not a moderate...it means I'm against Trump.

Other Conservatives have expressed doubts about Trump from Sen. McCain to Ben Shapiro. You painting everybody who is against Trump as "a shill and hack" is the identity politics you pretend to fight against...but actually participate in and encourage...as long as it agrees with your own ideology.

Yes, by the way, I would have no trouble with voting for Rubio or Warren if they had been in the election instead of the two disasters we were presented with. I'm not pretending they have the same ideologies...I'm pretending that I agree with them far more than I agree with Trump or Clinton and more than a lot of other politicians in Washington DC.

Here's another example of how you are a partisan hack. McCain is an establishment swamp critter, of course he doesn't like Trump. Ben Shapiro has "expressed doubts" just like I have. He will criticize Trump when he's wrong and give him credit when he's right. IF that was what you were doing, I might have respect for your claims of being a moderate. You're going WAY beyond expressing doubts but here you are trying to equate yourself with Shapiro.

Rubio started out as a promising Conservative but the longer he is in Washington, the more he seems to be morphing into another Lindsey Graham. Maybe it's Swamp Fever? And Fauxcahontas is a complete fraud and left-wing loon. You're fucking NOT moderate if that's what you support.

 

[Never3ndr]

Me being against Trump does not mean I'm not a moderate...it means I'm against Trump.

Other Conservatives have expressed doubts about Trump from Sen. McCain to Ben Shapiro. You painting everybody who is against Trump as "a shill and hack" is the identity politics you pretend to fight against...but actually participate in and encourage...as long as it agrees with your own ideology.

Yes, by the way, I would have no trouble with voting for Rubio or Warren if they had been in the election instead of the two disasters we were presented with. I'm not pretending they have the same ideologies...I'm pretending that I agree with them far more than I agree with Trump or Clinton and more than a lot of other politicians in Washington DC.

Here's another example of how you are a partisan hack. McCain is an establishment swamp critter, of course he doesn't like Trump. Ben Shapiro has "expressed doubts" just like I have. He will criticize Trump when he's wrong and give him credit when he's right. IF that was what you were doing, I might have respect for your claims of being a moderate. You're going WAY beyond expressing doubts but here you are trying to equate yourself with Shapiro.

Rubio started out as a promising Conservative but the longer he is in Washington, the more he seems to be morphing into another Lindsey Graham. Maybe it's Swamp Fever? And Fauxcahontas is a complete fraud and left-wing loon. You're fucking NOT moderate if that's what you support.

The fact that you just had to discredit both sides of the aisle in order to try and attack me saying that I'm a moderate...which, by common definition, means I have stances on both sides of the aisle...kinda defeats the entire point of your exercise.

I'm all for supporting Trump when he does something worthy of supporting. For instance, me being a veteran of the USMC, and I 100% behind him appointing Mattis as SecDef. However, the issue is that Trump hasn't really done much else to make me convinced that he's got our nation's best interest in mind.

I'd just like to point out that Warren is about as far left as you can go...Shapiro is one of the last remaining "true" conservative voices in the nation. I never said I agree with everything they stand for...that would literally be impossible. However, you can disagree with people on some points but, on the whole, support who they are and some of what they represent. Likewise, you can agree with people on some points (like Trump on Mattis) but, on the whole, staunchly oppose who they are and some of what they represent.

I'd like to point out that your identity politics is bothersome at this point. You paint this picture of me...which I repeatedly have refuted, but...because identity politics is so engrained in your political standpoints, you refuse to step outside of your identity box and accept that, hey, some people may just not agree with Trump and it has nothing to do with their identity. I'm a Marine Veteran who was raised in the South and voted for a Republican for the Senate position in my state, and I oppose Trump. How does that frame with your identity politic worldview?

 

[Boss]

I brought up the dispute of crowd size at his inauguration simply to point out that something so trivial should be immaterial to the president as should the size of the popular vote and the constant criticism of by the media.

Welp... this is a different kind of president. Indeed, it IS trivial and the NY Times should've never started it by publishing the bogus photo. Nor should all the hullabaloo ensued over the popular vote. It's simply childish and immature. But Trump isn't going to let this stuff go and "rise above it" like other Republican presidents might have... he is going to use it to bludgeon the opposition and make them wish they'd kept their mouths shut. He's going to rub their noses in the absurdity for the whole world to see, mocking them every step of the way.

Thursday's press conference is a great example of the perceptive contrast between the left and right. Most on the left saw Trump as being agitated and upset at the media... the right saw him handing their asses to them. The lefties were shocked and appalled, the righties cheered in fist-pumping jubilation. Finally, someone let these media assholes have it!

And here's the thing, this is going to keep on happening and he will continue turning it into political points like he's been doing for nearly two years now. I stand by the statement I made back when the primaries first started... the ONLY way to defeat Trump is on substance and issues. This attacking over personality plays right into his expert hands and he will continue to make you look like fools.

The president can use his time in office to battle the media or he can spend his time managing the government and sponsoring incentives and legislation, which by the way is his job. However, he will eventually not be able to do both because the media will keep increasing their attacks and investigations because they want to engage the president and each time he recognizes them by calling them out by name, network, or show it only increases their incentive to do more. Yes, they want to be called out as the lying dishonest media. They love it. What Trump is doing is exactly what the media did for him during the campaign. He is giving them media time bringing them into the spotlight. What more could they hope for. There job is to increase ratings, increase their hit rates, or increase their readership, what better way to do that than to be recognized by the president.

Or he can use his time doing BOTH simultaneously. And while you say that will ultimately be his downfall, it hasn't been since he entered politics. In fact, some would argue that has been totally to his advantage. The more the media wants to put Trump in the spotlight over trivial personality bullshit, the more he will exploit that and turn it into political victory points. LOL... yes, I see how much they "love it" by the way they spit, spew and sputter in sheer disbelief when he torches their asses. They are beside themselves... they don't know what to do with this man... he defies convention. Their typical partisan smear tactics aren't working. They've literally stopped even trying to pretend to be objective journalists with Trump as he exposes them for the frauds they are. And he just keeps on punching them.

 

[Boss]

The fact that you just had to discredit both sides of the aisle in order to try and attack me saying that I'm a moderate...which, by common definition, means I have stances on both sides of the aisle...kinda defeats the entire point of your exercise.

I didn't really discredit anybody, I just pointed out the truth. I didn't attack you claiming you are a moderate, that's your claim. I'm pointing out how you're not a moderate. If you claim you have stances on both sides of the aisle, you're a special kind of stupid because so far in THIS congress, every single thing voted on has been right down party lines.

I'm all for supporting Trump when he does something worthy of supporting. For instance, me being a veteran of the USMC, and I 100% behind him appointing Mattis as SecDef. However, the issue is that Trump hasn't really done much else to make me convinced that he's got our nation's best interest in mind.

He's been in office less than a month, how can you determine anything about him so far? He hasn't even been able to get his cabinet confirmed. Why aren't you criticizing Chuck Schumer for dragging his heels on that? Clearly you can see that is a partisan tactic. Where are the threads of you calling him out, Mr. Moderate?

I'd just like to point out that Warren is about as far left as you can go...Shapiro is one of the last remaining "true" conservative voices in the nation. I never said I agree with everything they stand for...that would literally be impossible. However, you can disagree with people on some points but, on the whole, support who they are and some of what they represent. Likewise, you can agree with people on some points (like Trump on Mattis) but, on the whole, staunchly oppose who they are and some of what they represent.

And you can be a partisan hack who lies through his teeth and claims to be a moderate when he's not because he thinks that makes him look objective and reasonable. Again, you can't support someone "about as far left as you can go" and still claim to be a moderate.

I'd like to point out that your identity politics is bothersome at this point. You paint this picture of me...which I repeatedly have refuted, but...because identity politics is so engrained in your political standpoints, you refuse to step outside of your identity box and accept that, hey, some people may just not agree with Trump and it has nothing to do with their identity. I'm a Marine Veteran who was raised in the South and voted for a Republican for the Senate position in my state, and I oppose Trump. How does that frame with your identity politic worldview?

You don't seem to understand what "identity politics" means. I don't know you from Adam's house cat. All I can go on is what you post and I smell a fraud and a fake. If you honestly served our country, I thank you and respect you for that, but don't expect that to buy you any credibility here because we're all anonymous and have no way to prove our credentials. All any of us can go on is what is posted... all this "I'm this way and I did this or that" doesn't really matter to me. I don't care what you claim to be or who you claim to be because I can't confirm it. For all I know, you're some 12-year-old punk in his grandmother's basement. I argue your points and positions without regard to your claims and that's just how I am. It's not personal, I've just been around these message boards a long time and I've seen a lot of slick talking. It buys no cred with me.

 

[Divine Wind]

I'm a centrist.

But there is no way in hell I will ever vote Democrat. I believe that the party of slavery is just plain evil.

That is not a centrist statement.

 

[Divine Wind]

...He's been in office less than a month, how can you determine anything about him so far? He hasn't even been able to get his cabinet confirmed. Why aren't you criticizing Chuck Schumer for dragging his heels on that?.....

Agreed about judging a President after less than a month in office.

It's not just the Democrats who are dragging their feet on confirming Trump's cabinet.

Cabinet nominees are getting more ‘no’ votes than ever

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/31/us/politics/trump-cabinet-confirmation-votes.html

 

[TNHarley]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Moderate is fair for me I guess.
Fuck the duopoly. That shit is for the birds.
My thinking is all over the map. I could get called a commie, liberal, con or fascist in the same day. Guess its because I think for myself

Admit it you're a LIBertarian!!!

Deep down you believe everyone has the right to be as miserable as the next person but prefer the government not to pay for someone stupidity...

I sound like one alot but I don't identify. I don't believe in a lot if their basic principles

 

[whitehall]

A political "moderate" is a republican who caves into democrat demands. The GOP is a big tent that has pro-life and pro-abortion advocates. If you look closely at the democrat party you will find that there are no pro-lifers. The last "moderate" democrat was Joe Lieberman and they kicked him out of the party.

 

[Muhammed]

I'm a centrist.

But there is no way in hell I will ever vote Democrat. I believe that the party of slavery is just plain evil.

That is not a centrist statement.

...Only in the opinion of those who support the party of slavery.

 

[Doc1]

At this point in history, well since JFK actually there is nothing and no one in the Democrat Party I'd vote for. There have been election s I have sat out because I couldn't vote for any of them.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Moderate is fair for me I guess.
Fuck the duopoly. That shit is for the birds.
My thinking is all over the map. I could get called a commie, liberal, con or fascist in the same day. Guess its because I think for myself

Admit it you're a LIBertarian!!!

Deep down you believe everyone has the right to be as miserable as the next person but prefer the government not to pay for someone stupidity...

I sound like one alot but I don't identify. I don't believe in a lot if their basic principles

I believe you're Conservative but not to the point it hampers your ability to see the other side view.

Too many wingers have a hard time understanding there are many ways to the same solution and sometimes you have to give to get.

They believe in scorch earth and not working with the opposition and then expect the opposition not to return the favor.

My thought is simple everything from minimum wage to abortion can be dealt at state level but many disagree and prefer the big brother to dictate our lives until it does not suit them...

So it more fun to sit on a fence and mock the wingers like you do...

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

McCain and Warren aren't that far apart, so you ARE a liberal.

Splitting your vote between a Communist and a Progressive, big government Repub DOESNT make you "moderate."

I agree with the Founders and the form of government they established.

I believe in an INVISIBLE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, doing ONLY their Constitutional duties.

Therefore, ....

I AM A MODERATE AMERICAN

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I'm a centrist.

But there is no way in hell I will ever vote Democrat. I believe that the party of slavery is just plain evil.

Yes.

Compromising with Communists does not make you a moderate.

In the world of the Fake News, a "moderate" Republican supports the murder of unborn children and the myth of Global Warming.

 

[Norman]

Just out of curiosity, this forum seems pretty polarized, which is fine, I come here to debate. However, I was curious if there were any other moderates out there along with me?

I'm left leaning, but, perhaps because I was raised in the South and served in the Marines, am a moderate liberal. I can say I voted split ticket for this past election and, even though I am on the left the candidate I was most behind in our last election was Rubio rather than Trump, Clinton, or Sanders.

I'm also a big fan of Sen. John McCain as well as a fan of Sen Elizabeth Warren. So, is there anybody else out here that toes the fence line between parties? I feel like I'm a dying breed here.

Everyone who disagrees with the far left is a Nazi so... no.

 

[Divine Wind]

I'm a centrist.

But there is no way in hell I will ever vote Democrat. I believe that the party of slavery is just plain evil.

That is not a centrist statement.

...Only in the opinion of those who support the party of slavery.

Bullshit. In the opinion of non-party centrists. Unless you want to declare the Republicans evil too, you cannot honestly say you are a centrist. However, like Hillary, you are free to lie all you like.