Are Multiracial Militaries A Good Idea?

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Or, say, militaries that have members of an enemy religion right there on base? Would that ever lead to a problem of any kind?

The army didn't have a problem with my Italian grandfather fighting against Germany and Italy in ww2.

I don't see why we shouldn't let Muslims be in the military, even in light of what happened in Texas yesterday.

EDIT: Any Constitution, American history, American ideal loving American should never want to exclude people based on religion alone. Considering one of our core founding values was the freedom to practice any religion you choose without persecution for it.

 

[William Joyce]

Wow.

We just had a situation in which a Muslim Palestinian was allowed to join the U.S. military, and despite his jihad views, allowed to stay in.

He blows away a dozen people on the army base, yelling "Allah Akbar."

And I ask a question about this, and everyone wants to bring up the Nazis and then rep each other.

Just wow.

I think this is how groupthink can become "dumbthink."

Are you all that blinded by political correctness that you can't see a problem here? Or, the only problem you see is that a "racist" questions multiracialism and its benefits?

What destroyed the Nazis was the overwhelming force of other mostly racially homogenous militaries, like the Americans and Brits and Soviets. Truman didn't order the military desegregated until 1948, THREE YEARS AFTER VICTORY. So any argument that "multiracial militaries are great" isn't helped by this fact. It's also not helped by the fact that post-integration, America's LOST every conflict, except Gulf War I. Meanwhile, you better believe the Viet Cong weren't multi-culti -- all Vietnamese, all spoke the same language, and all from around Vietnam.

The Spartans and the Romans -- great militaries. The Romans fell to pieces when they expanded the empire so far that they had far-flung peoples in there who didn't care about Rome, just getting paid.

Great militaries are made up of a unified group all fighting for a cause they AGREE on. Fighting for family and soil is what makes a man fight hardest. Mercenary armies haven't recorded great victories throughout history that I've ever heard of.

And to include ENEMIES inside the military seems just insane. Why not let al Quada members join? Would it be "racist" not to?

 

[William Joyce]

And shit, I don't even AGREE with the Middle East wars... but if you're going to fucking do them, do them right, eh?

 

[KittenKoder]

Sorry William, that wasn't a race issue, that was a religious one.

 

[JenyEliza]

Are Multiracial Militaries A Good Idea?

One time I touched a black person and my hand turned black.

Freddie Bagwell sat next to me in Kindergarten. He used to wet his pants.

He was black too.

I didn't like sitting next to him.

Not because he was black, but because he was a pants wetter.

However, the teacher, my parents and our Principal were all very concerned I was going to turn into a mean ole bigot when I grew up.

I tried to explain to them that I didn't like sitting next to Freddie because he SMELLED BAD--like PEE. To no avail. And this....was in Catholic school in 1969.

 

[Diuretic]

Lance Corporal Johnson Gideon Beharry VC (born 26 July 1979, in Grenada), of the 1st Battalion, Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment, is a British Army soldier who, on 18 March 2005, was awarded the Victoria Cross, the highest military decoration for valour in the British and Commonwealth armed forces, for twice saving members of his unit from ambushes on 1 May and again on 11 June, 2004 at Al-Amarah, Iraq. He sustained serious head injuries in the latter engagement. Beharry was formally invested with the Victoria Cross by Queen Elizabeth II on 27 April, 2005.

Johnson Beharry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[William Joyce]

Sorry William, that wasn't a race issue, that was a religious one.

Oy vey, KK.

"Religion" is a fig leaf cover for race issues.

Not always, but usually.

When the twain meet, it's race that beats. If "religion" were what controlled, we wouldn't have strictly segregated black and white Christian churches. Conflicts between Ashkenazi and Sephardim would not exist. And so on.

I think "religion" is a proxy.

But let's concede that it's a racio-ethno-religio MIX that made the basis for the shooter's murders. It's still my issue. When you try forcing everyone together, it backfires. FUCKING LITERALLY.

You're a smart poster... surely you can sense this, even if you reject the policy prescriptions of the evil William Joyce.

 

[Charles Stucker]

How'd that attempt at a homogeneous military work out for Germany?

The WWII German Werhmacht had several "hilfwilligen" units - troops from all over the place who joined the Nazi cause.

To the OP - the US cannot restrict military applicants based on religion.
Japanese troops served with distinction during WWII in the US Army in Europe.

 

[editec]

Or, say, militaries that have members of an enemy religion right there on base? Would that ever lead to a problem of any kind?

Worked pretty well for ROME for about a thousad years, William.

 

[Silfy]

Are Multiracial Militaries A Good Idea?

One time I touched a black person and my hand turned black.

Freddie Bagwell sat next to me in Kindergarten. He used to wet his pants.

He was black too.

I didn't like sitting next to him.

Not because he was black, but because he was a pants wetter.

However, the teacher, my parents and our Principal were all very concerned I was going to turn into a mean ole bigot when I grew up.

I tried to explain to them that I didn't like sitting next to Freddie because he SMELLED BAD--like PEE. To no avail. And this....was in Catholic school in 1969.

Despite the bed wetter
The teacher your parents and the Principal were ALL correct

 

[GHook93]

Or, say, militaries that have members of an enemy religion right there on base? Would that ever lead to a problem of any kind?

Its worked pretty damn well for America (and even the French Foreign Legion)! Who won the Civil War, the integrated Union Army! Blacks, Latino, Asians (especially the Japanese Americans) fought hard and bravely for America.

I forgot who stated it: "But skin color is not an issue when you are in the fox-hole fighting the enemy!"

I think interracial armies are not only highly positive, but gives out military a huge leg up on every homogeneous army!

It also has lasting effects on the people:
(1) Brotherhood with people of other races!
(2) Myths and prejudices knocked down by interaction!
(3) Greater love for the melting pot America!
(4) Greater love for America in general!
(5) Greater respect for minorities (and minorities for Whites)


There is NOTHING negative about an interracial army! NOTHING!

 

[Rocky Top Lady]

So does anyone think it would be a peachy-keen idea to have some closet Taliban or Al-Q to enlist in the US armed forces?

What about closet Taliban/Al-Q supporters?

Although ham-handed in approach, I think Wm Joyce's theory merits some honest exploration and discussion.

In a nutshell--anyone here putting their stamp of approval on allowing the Trojan soldier approach in our military?

I'm certainly not. I firmly believe we *do* have 5th columnists within our military. People who shouldn't be there, yet they are because we're ohh-soooo worried about offending.

What is a "5th Columnist"? My mother in law said that word last night and that was the first time I ever heard it, and here it is again today!

 

[GHook93]

So does anyone think it would be a peachy-keen idea to have some closet Taliban or Al-Q to enlist in the US armed forces?

What about closet Taliban/Al-Q supporters?

Although ham-handed in approach, I think Wm Joyce's theory merits some honest exploration and discussion.

In a nutshell--anyone here putting their stamp of approval on allowing the Trojan soldier approach in our military?

I'm certainly not. I firmly believe we *do* have 5th columnists within our military. People who shouldn't be there, yet they are because we're ohh-soooo worried about offending.

Should we have not let in any German, Italian or Japanese American soldiers into the armed forces during WW II? Which are all three groups who overwhelmingly fought bravely and with distinction as Americans!

 

[mightypeon]

Actually, assuming everyone is capable of speaking the same language, multi racial militaries work fine.
If that isnt the case something like that may happen:

Battle of Karansebes:

Once upon a time, Russia and Habsburg Austria joined forces to smack the Turk. While the Russians were steamrolling the Crimea, the mighty Habsburg host assembled and marched towards the Balkans. Actually, the Habsburgs werent dumb, and tried to use their local militaries in a way that was suited to their normal fighting style. So, a unit of Hungarians left the Austrian camp to search for the ottomans. Instead of the Ottomans they found Gypsies. Talking a bit, the Gypsies agreed to sell them a lot of Booze. Soon however, a croat detachment arived at the scene, and wanted a bit of the Booze. Considering that they were Hungarians, and the others were Croats, the Hungarians said "Fuck you" and took up positions around the Booze Barrels. Then someone openened fire. Then a bunch of Austrian officiers charged in shouting "Halt Halt!" (German for "Stop!") in an effort to stop the madness.
Unfortunatly, the Croats heard "Allah, Allah" instead of "Halt, Halt" and shot the Austrian officiers somehow mistaking them for Ottomans. Auxilary Troops from Saxony saw this, assumed the Croats turned traitor and fired at them. However, to a Saxon a Croat looked exactly like a Hungarian so they also fired at the Hungarians. In the end, everyone fired on everyone else, apart from the Italian Lombards who wisely opted to retreat from the situation.
When the Ottoman Army arrived 2 days later, they were totally amazed to find a field laden with thousands of dead austrians.

 

[William Joyce]

Or, say, militaries that have members of an enemy religion right there on base? Would that ever lead to a problem of any kind?

Its worked pretty damn well for America (and even the French Foreign Legion)! Who won the Civil War, the integrated Union Army! Blacks, Latino, Asians (especially the Japanese Americans) fought hard and bravely for America.

I forgot who stated it: "But skin color is not an issue when you are in the fox-hole fighting the enemy!"

I think interracial armies are not only highly positive, but gives out military a huge leg up on every homogeneous army!

It also has lasting effects on the people:
(1) Brotherhood with people of other races!
(2) Myths and prejudices knocked down by interaction!
(3) Greater love for the melting pot America!
(4) Greater love for America in general!
(5) Greater respect for minorities (and minorities for Whites)


There is NOTHING negative about an interracial army! NOTHING!

So you're open to the IDF being 90 percent Arab?

Probably not.

GHook, you are too absurdly biased a Jew to take seriously.

 

[GHook93]

So you're open to the IDF being 90 percent Arab?

Use real numbers, Arabs/Muslims make up 20% of he Israeli population. I would be more than happy to see that. In fact I think the Arab Israelis should have to serve in the IDF just like everyone else!

What you are leaving out is the IDF is very integrated!

GHook, you are too absurdly biased a Jew to take seriously.

Not sure what that has to do with my belief that an integrated Army is good!

 

[William Joyce]

What you are leaving out is the IDF is very integrated!

No, it's not.

Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's pretty much Jews, Ashkenazi-style, top to bottom. They let 2 or 3 non-Jews scrub pots, dude.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Gen. Casey on the strength of our diversity

Gen. George Casey, Chief of Staff of the Army, appeared on several morning talk shows this morning, highlighting the strength of our Army, and resilience even in times of trouble.

Appearing on CNN’s State of the Union, Casey emphasized the need to wait for the completion of the investigation before drawing conclusions concerning the cause or motivation behind the shootings:

“We have to be careful,” Casey said, “because we can’t jump to conclusions now based on little snippets of information that have come out.”

“As great a tragedy as this was, it would be a shame if our diversity became a casualty as well,” the Army Chief of Staff also said Sunday.

Casey added that he does not think there is currently discrimination against the roughly 3,000 Muslims who serve in the Army.

Army Live

 

[Sunni Man]

Most arabs in th IDF are Druze

Druze are listed as muslims by Israel.

But their religious practices are far from Islamic.

And no other muslims consider the Druze muslims.

Israel likes to use the Druze as an example that they allow muslims to join the IDF.

What a joke.

 

[GHook93]

What you are leaving out is the IDF is very integrated!

No, it's not.

Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's pretty much Jews, Ashkenazi-style, top to bottom. They let 2 or 3 non-Jews scrub pots, dude.

I still don't know what this has to do with me, because I am American and wouldn't have it any other way (I was offered dual citizenship a few times, I turned it down without batting an eye)!

Multiracial arm forces are as superior, so I would prefer our policy vs their! Does that get through your thick skull!

[edit] Minorities in the IDF
See also: Unit of the Minorities
Druze and Circassian men are subject to mandatory conscription to the IDF just like Israeli Jews[18]. Originally, they served in the framework of a special unit called "The Minorities' Unit", which still exists today, in the form of the Herev ("Sword") independent battalion. However, since the 1980s Druze soldiers have increasingly protested this practice, which they considered a means of segregating them and denying them access to elite units. The army has increasingly admitted Druze soldiers to regular combat units and promoting them to higher ranks from which they had been previously excluded. In recent years, several Druze officers have reached ranks as high as Major General and many have received commendations for distinguished service. It is important to note that, proportionally to their numbers, the Druze people achieve much higher—documented—levels in the Israeli army than other soldiers. Nevertheless, some Druze still charge that discrimination continues, such as exclusion from the Air Force, although the official low security classification for Druze has been abolished for some time. The first Druze aircraft navigator completed his training course in 2005; his identity is protected as with all air force pilots. After the battle of Ramat Yohanan during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, approximately 1000 Syrian Druze soldiers and officers deserted and joined Israel

Since the late 1970s the Druze Initiative Committee centered at the village of Beit Jan and linked to the Israeli Communist Party has been campaigning to abolish Druze conscription.

Conscription is a tradition among some of the Druze population, with most opposition in Druze communities of the Golan Heights; 83 percent of Druze boys serve in the army, according to the IDF's statistics.[19]

By law, all Israeli citizens are subject to conscription and it is the Defense Minister's complete discretion to grant exemption to individual citizens or classes of citizens. A long-standing policy dating to Israel's early years extends an exemption to all other Israeli minorities (most notably Israeli Arabs). However, there is a long-standing government policy of encouraging Bedouins to volunteer and offer them various inducements, and in some impoverished Bedouin communities a military career seems one of the few means of (relative) social mobility available. Also, Muslims and Christians are accepted as volunteers, even at an age greater than 18.[20]

Six Israeli Arabs have received orders of distinction as a part of their military service; of them the most famous is a Bedouin officer, Lieutenant Colonel Abd el-Majid Hidr (also known as Amos Yarkoni), who received the Order of Distinction. Recently, a Bedouin officer was promoted to the rank of Colonel.[citation needed]

Until the second term of Yitzhak Rabin as Prime Minister, social benefits given to families in which at least one member (including a grandfather, uncle or cousin) had served at some time in the armed forces were significantly higher than to "non-military" families, which was considered a means of blatant discrimination between Jews and Arabs. Rabin had led the abolition of the measure, in the teeth of strong opposition from the Right. At present, the only official advantage from military service is the attaining of security clearance and serving in some types of government positions (in most cases, security-related), as well as some indirect benefits. In practice, however, a large number of Israeli employers placing "wanted" ads include the requirement "after military service" even when the job is in no way security-related, which is considered as a euphemism for "no Arab/Haredim need apply". The test of former military service is also frequently applied in admittance to various newly-founded communities, effectively barring Arabs from living there. Also, the Israeli national airline El Al hires only pilots who had served in the Air Force, which in practice excludes Arabs from the job.

Homosexuals
Since 1993, homosexuals serve openly in the military, including special units, without any discrimination. This happened after a reserves officer testified before the Knesset that he had been barred from researching sensitive topics, and his rank had been revoked, because of his sexual orientation.[21]

Unit of the Minorities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Unit of the Minorities is an Arabic-speaking unit of the Israel Defense Forces founded during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The Minorities Unit is currently believed to be of brigade strength and is considered an elite, professional organization.

The unit was formed in the early summer of 1948 by incorporating a unit of Druze defectors from the Arab Liberation Army and small numbers of Bedouin. The unit was attached to the Oded Brigade and fought in Operation Hiram in October 1948. It has fought in every war since.

Most members of the unit, including officers, are believed to be Druzes. Other members include Bedouin and Circassion soldiers and some Christian Arabs. The unit has produced several generals.

The Minorities Unit has a small, elite Sayeret special forces branch.