CDZ Are Jews Sinners?

[Syriusly]

I ask this of Christians- and it is a sincere question- to you are Jews- and Muslims- sinners in your point of view?

Unlike Buddhists or other religions, Jews share the same Old Testament but reject Jesus Christ as their savior. Muslims also share the same Old Testament, and even believe Jesus to be a prophet, but also reject Jesus as their savior?

So does that make them sinners? Or to a Christian, are only Christians capable of being sinners?

 

[JakeStarkey]

All followers of the three Abrahamic sects believe in sin and sinners.

 

[Freemason9]

Actually, not everyone considers Buddhism as a religion. But, to address your main point, the idea of "sin" in the New Testament varies widely from mainstream American Christian faith; as one example, Jesus introduced the new covenent that did away with the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament (among other things) as a means of measing the path to heaven. Strictly speaking, Jesus announced forgiveness of transgressions through the simple act of faith alone.

 

[irosie91]

Actually, not everyone considers Buddhism as a religion. But, to address your main point, the idea of "sin" in the New Testament varies widely from mainstream American Christian faith; as one example, Jesus introduced the new covenent that did away with the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament (among other things) as a means of measing the path to heaven. Strictly speaking, Jesus announced forgiveness of transgressions through the simple act of faith alone.

can you cite-----just where in the NT are there words DIRECTLY
ascribed to Jesus----by a present witness which quote Jesus
saying that faith in him or "faith" in whatever you say it is that requires THE FAITH, overcomes both law and 'sin'?----
I have certainly heard the concept preached by some Christian---
sorta-----but never really understood it

 

[JakeStarkey]

irosie is asking for a fallacy of false standard

 

[irosie91]

irosie is asking for a fallacy of false standard

No I am not-----I asking a simple question----where in the NT does
Jesus say------something which can be construed as meaning
that "FAITH" overcomes breach of law and sin??? I have
heard Christians state that Jesus abrogated biblical law------
but never could quite grasp what that means. ----even
the "TEN COMMANDMENTS"? -------the loss of that part is
news to me. In fact the whole concept of------
"end of Covenant" confuses me. -----it seems to me to be
"parts of covenant" There are lines in the NT that do seem
to include an abrogation of some laws (??) but I cannot find
anyone actually quoting Jesus saying -----"all you have to do
is have faith in ME"------"and you can forget about the old laws---
both positive (those requiring an action) and negative (those
forbidding an action) "

 

[JakeStarkey]

irosie is asking for a fallacy of false standard

No I am not-----I asking a simple question----where in the NT does
Jesus say------something which can be construed as meaning
that "FAITH" overcomes breach of law and sin??? I have
heard Christians state that Jesus abrogated biblical law------
but never could quite grasp what that means. ----even
the "TEN COMMANDMENTS"? -------the loss of that part is
news to me. In fact the whole concept of------
"end of Covenant" confuses me. -----it seems to me to be
"parts of covenant" There are lines in the NT that do seem
to include an abrogation of some laws (??) but I cannot find
anyone actually quoting Jesus saying -----"all you have to do
is have faith in ME"------"and you can forget about the old laws---
both positive (those requiring an action) and negative (those
forbidding an action) "

Yes, it is. Not all Christians think or believe alike, but there you are trying to put them all in one bottle.

Forgive me, but act like an adult when it comes to asking questions

 

[irosie91]

irosie is asking for a fallacy of false standard

No I am not-----I asking a simple question----where in the NT does
Jesus say------something which can be construed as meaning
that "FAITH" overcomes breach of law and sin??? I have
heard Christians state that Jesus abrogated biblical law------
but never could quite grasp what that means. ----even
the "TEN COMMANDMENTS"? -------the loss of that part is
news to me. In fact the whole concept of------
"end of Covenant" confuses me. -----it seems to me to be
"parts of covenant" There are lines in the NT that do seem
to include an abrogation of some laws (??) but I cannot find
anyone actually quoting Jesus saying -----"all you have to do
is have faith in ME"------"and you can forget about the old laws---
both positive (those requiring an action) and negative (those
forbidding an action) "

Yes, it is. Not all Christians think or believe alike, but there you are trying to put them all in one bottle.

Forgive me, but act like an adult when it comes to asking questions

your answer makes no sense. To what ONE bottle do you, in your usual denigrating manner, ACCUSE ME OF
PLACING ALL CHRISTIANS???? I am not even clear
as to what your 'yes it is" refers? Where did I state
"ALL CHRISTIANS THINK ALIKE"??-------- (for the record---I also never said "all muslims think alike"----but have
been so accused many times)

 

[JakeStarkey]

irosie is asking for a fallacy of false standard

No I am not-----I asking a simple question----where in the NT does
Jesus say------something which can be construed as meaning
that "FAITH" overcomes breach of law and sin??? I have
heard Christians state that Jesus abrogated biblical law------
but never could quite grasp what that means. ----even
the "TEN COMMANDMENTS"? -------the loss of that part is
news to me. In fact the whole concept of------
"end of Covenant" confuses me. -----it seems to me to be
"parts of covenant" There are lines in the NT that do seem
to include an abrogation of some laws (??) but I cannot find
anyone actually quoting Jesus saying -----"all you have to do
is have faith in ME"------"and you can forget about the old laws---
both positive (those requiring an action) and negative (those
forbidding an action) "

Yes, it is. Not all Christians think or believe alike, but there you are trying to put them all in one bottle.

Forgive me, but act like an adult when it comes to asking questions

your answer makes no sense. To what ONE bottle do you, in your usual denigrating manner, ACCUSE ME OF
PLACING ALL CHRISTIANS???? I am not even clear
as to what your 'yes it is" refers? Where did I state
"ALL CHRISTIANS THINK ALIKE"??-------- (for the record---I also never said "all muslims think alike"----but have
been so accused many times)

No sense? Because you don't realize there are hundreds and thousands of denominations? Your question is a fallacy, as has been pointed out, so refine it?

No one is denigrating the Sister of Denigration.

Act adult or be treated accordingly. Begin with a sensible question.

 

[irosie91]

irosie is asking for a fallacy of false standard

No I am not-----I asking a simple question----where in the NT does
Jesus say------something which can be construed as meaning
that "FAITH" overcomes breach of law and sin??? I have
heard Christians state that Jesus abrogated biblical law------
but never could quite grasp what that means. ----even
the "TEN COMMANDMENTS"? -------the loss of that part is
news to me. In fact the whole concept of------
"end of Covenant" confuses me. -----it seems to me to be
"parts of covenant" There are lines in the NT that do seem
to include an abrogation of some laws (??) but I cannot find
anyone actually quoting Jesus saying -----"all you have to do
is have faith in ME"------"and you can forget about the old laws---
both positive (those requiring an action) and negative (those
forbidding an action) "

Yes, it is. Not all Christians think or believe alike, but there you are trying to put them all in one bottle.

Forgive me, but act like an adult when it comes to asking questions

your answer makes no sense. To what ONE bottle do you, in your usual denigrating manner, ACCUSE ME OF
PLACING ALL CHRISTIANS???? I am not even clear
as to what your 'yes it is" refers? Where did I state
"ALL CHRISTIANS THINK ALIKE"??-------- (for the record---I also never said "all muslims think alike"----but have
been so accused many times)

No sense? Because you don't realize there are hundreds and thousands of denominations? Your question is a fallacy, as has been pointed out, so refine it?

No one is denigrating the Sister of Denigration.

Act adult or be treated accordingly. Begin with a sensible question.

I am very aware of the fact that there are many denominations of Christianity and never came
across any that insisted on adherence to jewish
ritual as prescribed in the OT. I have heard many
Christian preachers teach that the MOST important
aspect of Christianity is FAITH and that attainment
of "salvation" is NOT thru "acts" ----but thru FAITH.
------because Jesus said so. This concept has
been used to bolster the position that jewish ritual has
been SUPERCEDED by "faith" I am trying to find
lines attributable to Jesus which makes that
assertion

 

[JakeStarkey]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

 

[irosie91]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

 

[hadit]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[irosie91]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

 

[Syriusly]

Anyone?
Anyone?
Buehler?
Buehler?

Any Christians want to actually take a shot at my OP?

Would you consider Jews or Muslims sinners- since they do not believe in Jesus as savior?

Would you consider them sinners if they did not do as Jesus commands in the New Testament?

 

[irosie91]

Anyone?
Anyone?
Buehler?
Buehler?

Any Christians want to actually take a shot at my OP?

Would you consider Jews or Muslims sinners- since they do not believe in Jesus as savior?

Would you consider them sinners if they did not do as Jesus commands in the New Testament?

what does Jesus COMMAND in the New Testament?

 

[JakeStarkey]

"All are sinners in the hands of an Angry God" was a sermon name, or something like it. The Puritans and Pilgrims did not give the Native Americans any passes on the sinning business, so I imagine most Christians figure that all humanity is involved in sin, whether Christian or not.

 

[irosie91]

"All are sinners in the hands of an Angry God" was a sermon name, or something like it. The Puritans and Pilgrims did not give the Native Americans any passes on the sinning business, so I imagine most Christians that all humanity is involved in sin, whether Christian or not.

ok ---you are basing UNIVERSAL reality on some random
sermon delivered by some demented jerk puritan in the
17th century

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not at all, I am sharing what many Christians believe, in my opinion. No where did I say it was rational.

 

[JoeMoma]

Certain sects of Christians do preach adherence to Jewish feasts, etc. Ask your local Catholic or Anglican priest, as well as a Baptist or Methodist pastor. If you want to hear an explanation in detail until your brains run out your ears, ask a Church of Christ minister. You will receive different explanations with several threads that are similar. I will withdraw from this part of the thread, for a time, because I won't submit myself to sectarianism. The best wishes on your journey,

I did not mention "jewish feasts" -----I said "jewish ritual"
which -----as you probably know is kinda INVOLVED and Jewish law----which is very involved. I know the explanation----"JESUS SAID IT NO LONGER APPLIES"---
my simple question involves the part where "JESUS SAID SO"---------the question was "where"?? I do not find that
statement in the NT. I am not asking for a comprehensive
examination of the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Christian sects that you claim exist------as a kid I attended only a
few episodes of Lutheran and Methodist sunday school

The most basic verse in Christianity, John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

that is "JOHN" and no one knows who JOHN was. He seems to have EMERGED with the NICEAN COUNCIL
---and from there INSERTED into the "LAST SUPPER"

John was quoting Jesus.