Are Christians required to keep the Sabbath?

[norwegen]

Paul makes it clear in both Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16–17 that the Sabbath has passed away now that Christ has come.

Yes and No Magnificat
There are actually two Sabbath's
the Day of Rest and the Sabbath Feast.

The 10 Commandments, which also include
keeping the Sabbath holy, do not pass away
but are fulfilled.

Christ Jesus came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

What passes away is we no longer make conditions
of the laws and enforce them in the old school sense.

So in a sense, yes, we no longer live by the "letter of the law"
as a "condition on Salvation." But believers still follow the
laws by conscience, whichever ways are given to them by God
to respect and follow. Different tribes are given slightly different
focus, but you are right these are no longer "conditions." And
certainly should never become as "stumbling blocks" (see below)

================
Colossians 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
\17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

=====
Romans 14:1-23 KJV


5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.

Same old easily refuted twisting of the Scriptures as the Daughters of the Whore have always done.

Dear Death Angel
Quite the opposite, in Christ Jesus there are no stumbling blocks
but all error or conflicts can be removed and resolved by truth.

By the New Testament restoration of justice in Christ Jesus
there is no more twisting of scriptures by the letter of the law.

Believers unite in agreement on forgiving past conflicts
and correcting based on truth that sets all relation
free from strife, error and stumbling block conditions.

We resolve all issues in Christ Jesus to establish agreement in truth.

Do you understand that all issues are resolved.
So there is no more haggling or twisting of laws.

All things are made right, good, whole and perfect
in Christ Jesus.

Rev 21:4-5 Behold I make all things new

Revelation 21:5

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matthew 5:48
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

1 John 4:18

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”

None of your word salad does away with the SABBATH kept Holy by the prophets, Jesus or the apostles.

Pick ONE Scripture you believe changes GOD'S COMMANDMENTS and I will address it honestly. Beyond that, you are left to think as you will

Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven

Dear Death Angel
Sorry I thought you were talking about something else.

We don't disagree.
I agree we keep the Sabbath
We follow the laws NATURALLY BY FAITH.

Which is DIFFERENT from enforcing them as conditions.

We no longer ENSLAVE anyone to laws LEGALISTICALLY
in the spirit of judgment or rejection, trying to condemn
or be a "stumbling block" condition for others to fail.

Is this more clear?

The point is NOT to become so lax that anyone disrespects the laws.
The point is to follow freely by choice to commit to Christ Jesus
authority which then FULFILLS the laws. Both the SPIRIT and the LETTER
are fulfilled that way, by putting the SPIRIT first so the LETTER NATURALLY FOLLOWS.

But not vice versa.
If we put the LETTER before the SPIRIT this can cause stumbling
blocks where NEITHER gets met. That's what I am pointing out.

If we do this RIGHT, then we FOLLOW BOTH THE SPIRIT
and the LETTER of the law in that order. Thank you Death Angel
and I agree with you there should be no "twisting" or taking
laws out of context with the WHOLE and SPIRIT of the law
where you lose both. That's not what I was trying to do either
sorry this wasn't clear.

What letter? What law do Christians follow by the letter?

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes and No Magnificat
There are actually two Sabbath's
the Day of Rest and the Sabbath Feast.

The 10 Commandments, which also include
keeping the Sabbath holy, do not pass away
but are fulfilled.

Christ Jesus came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

What passes away is we no longer make conditions
of the laws and enforce them in the old school sense.

So in a sense, yes, we no longer live by the "letter of the law"
as a "condition on Salvation." But believers still follow the
laws by conscience, whichever ways are given to them by God
to respect and follow. Different tribes are given slightly different
focus, but you are right these are no longer "conditions." And
certainly should never become as "stumbling blocks" (see below)

================
Colossians 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
\17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

=====
Romans 14:1-23 KJV


5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.

Same old easily refuted twisting of the Scriptures as the Daughters of the Whore have always done.

Dear Death Angel
Quite the opposite, in Christ Jesus there are no stumbling blocks
but all error or conflicts can be removed and resolved by truth.

By the New Testament restoration of justice in Christ Jesus
there is no more twisting of scriptures by the letter of the law.

Believers unite in agreement on forgiving past conflicts
and correcting based on truth that sets all relation
free from strife, error and stumbling block conditions.

We resolve all issues in Christ Jesus to establish agreement in truth.

Do you understand that all issues are resolved.
So there is no more haggling or twisting of laws.

All things are made right, good, whole and perfect
in Christ Jesus.

Rev 21:4-5 Behold I make all things new

Revelation 21:5

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matthew 5:48
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

1 John 4:18

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”

None of your word salad does away with the SABBATH kept Holy by the prophets, Jesus or the apostles.

Pick ONE Scripture you believe changes GOD'S COMMANDMENTS and I will address it honestly. Beyond that, you are left to think as you will

Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven

Dear Death Angel
Sorry I thought you were talking about something else.

We don't disagree.
I agree we keep the Sabbath
We follow the laws NATURALLY BY FAITH.

Which is DIFFERENT from enforcing them as conditions.

We no longer ENSLAVE anyone to laws LEGALISTICALLY
in the spirit of judgment or rejection, trying to condemn
or be a "stumbling block" condition for others to fail.

Is this more clear?

The point is NOT to become so lax that anyone disrespects the laws.
The point is to follow freely by choice to commit to Christ Jesus
authority which then FULFILLS the laws. Both the SPIRIT and the LETTER
are fulfilled that way, by putting the SPIRIT first so the LETTER NATURALLY FOLLOWS.

But not vice versa.
If we put the LETTER before the SPIRIT this can cause stumbling
blocks where NEITHER gets met. That's what I am pointing out.

If we do this RIGHT, then we FOLLOW BOTH THE SPIRIT
and the LETTER of the law in that order. Thank you Death Angel
and I agree with you there should be no "twisting" or taking
laws out of context with the WHOLE and SPIRIT of the law
where you lose both. That's not what I was trying to do either
sorry this wasn't clear.

Oh but we DO disagree.

Here's the fir time the Christian church faced persecution over the Seventh Day Sabbath:

Constantine created the earliest Sunday law known to history in AD 321. It says this:

On the venerable Day of the sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits: because it often happens that another Day is not so suitable for grain sowing or for vine planting: lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.ii

Chamber’s Encyclopedia says this:

Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical observance of that Day is known to have been ordained, is the edict of Constantine, 321 A.D.iii

Following this initial legislation, both emperors and Popes in succeeding centuries added other laws to strengthen Sunday observance. What began as a pagan ordinance ended as a Christian regulation. Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD):

Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ.iv

Dear Death Angel
Being that you and I both are believers
committed to establishing and following God's truth and laws,
let's follow Matthew 18:15-20 and bring together
witnesses to establish what is the true understanding
and history here.

I believe what you are saying is correct
and does not contradict what I am saying as well.

Who are your closest trusted pastors
or which church do you call your home church?

I am happy to ask pastors I know to pray over
this that the truth may be established and
resolve any conflict, error, misperception
or miscommunication. Whatever it is that
has caused disagreement or falsehood
will be corrected by following this process
of establishing truth through agreement in Christ.

Thank you Death Angel on behalf
of all others you seek to educate
with these corrections as well

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes and No Magnificat
There are actually two Sabbath's
the Day of Rest and the Sabbath Feast.

The 10 Commandments, which also include
keeping the Sabbath holy, do not pass away
but are fulfilled.

Christ Jesus came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

What passes away is we no longer make conditions
of the laws and enforce them in the old school sense.

So in a sense, yes, we no longer live by the "letter of the law"
as a "condition on Salvation." But believers still follow the
laws by conscience, whichever ways are given to them by God
to respect and follow. Different tribes are given slightly different
focus, but you are right these are no longer "conditions." And
certainly should never become as "stumbling blocks" (see below)

================
Colossians 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
\17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

=====
Romans 14:1-23 KJV


5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.

Same old easily refuted twisting of the Scriptures as the Daughters of the Whore have always done.

Dear Death Angel
Quite the opposite, in Christ Jesus there are no stumbling blocks
but all error or conflicts can be removed and resolved by truth.

By the New Testament restoration of justice in Christ Jesus
there is no more twisting of scriptures by the letter of the law.

Believers unite in agreement on forgiving past conflicts
and correcting based on truth that sets all relation
free from strife, error and stumbling block conditions.

We resolve all issues in Christ Jesus to establish agreement in truth.

Do you understand that all issues are resolved.
So there is no more haggling or twisting of laws.

All things are made right, good, whole and perfect
in Christ Jesus.

Rev 21:4-5 Behold I make all things new

Revelation 21:5

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matthew 5:48
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

1 John 4:18

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”

None of your word salad does away with the SABBATH kept Holy by the prophets, Jesus or the apostles.

Pick ONE Scripture you believe changes GOD'S COMMANDMENTS and I will address it honestly. Beyond that, you are left to think as you will

Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven

Dear Death Angel
Sorry I thought you were talking about something else.

We don't disagree.
I agree we keep the Sabbath
We follow the laws NATURALLY BY FAITH.

Which is DIFFERENT from enforcing them as conditions.

We no longer ENSLAVE anyone to laws LEGALISTICALLY
in the spirit of judgment or rejection, trying to condemn
or be a "stumbling block" condition for others to fail.

Is this more clear?

The point is NOT to become so lax that anyone disrespects the laws.
The point is to follow freely by choice to commit to Christ Jesus
authority which then FULFILLS the laws. Both the SPIRIT and the LETTER
are fulfilled that way, by putting the SPIRIT first so the LETTER NATURALLY FOLLOWS.

But not vice versa.
If we put the LETTER before the SPIRIT this can cause stumbling
blocks where NEITHER gets met. That's what I am pointing out.

If we do this RIGHT, then we FOLLOW BOTH THE SPIRIT
and the LETTER of the law in that order. Thank you Death Angel
and I agree with you there should be no "twisting" or taking
laws out of context with the WHOLE and SPIRIT of the law
where you lose both. That's not what I was trying to do either
sorry this wasn't clear.

What letter? What law do Christians follow by the letter?

Dear norwegen
It depends on the person, but each person or sometimes whole groups
will take certain Scriptures and make a priority out of upholding that one.

Some might focus against abortion as against murder, for example.
Some might focus on "man lying with man" as an abomination.
Some haggle over whether the REAL name of God is
YHWH and Jesus is supposed to be YESHUA etc.

The difference I have found is whether people believe
in reconciliation by Restorative Justice / Christ Jesus.

If they are trying to seek correction through forgiveness
and inclusion of others to resolve relationships.

Vs. trying to enforce rules to reject, condemn and
separate or exclude other people or groups.

Whatever you call this process of "haggling over the
letter of the law" it can become so "legalistic" as
to lose the spirit of the law and process itself.

I find if we agree in spirit first, then we can resolve
any differences we see in the written laws or letter.

NOTE: I find the same with Constitutional laws as well,
people can "cherry pick" different principles out of context
with the whole Constitution. In truth, ALL the principles in
the Constitution are supposed to upheld as a whole. But
when people get so caught up in defending a certain issue,
they can get very legalistic and forget that the law is
designed to protect the rights and beliefs of the other
person they are arguing with as well. If you only argue
to use the law to defend your side, it can't be at the
expense of the other person's right to defend their
beliefs as well. The spirit of the laws based on "consent of
the governed" and "no taxation without representation" is
about protecting ALL people from abuse of govt to infringe
on ANY person's beliefs. Instead I frequently see people so
caught up in enforcing SPECIFIC laws to defend their own beliefs,
they lose sight of other people's equal rights under other laws
that are equally included.

This "legalism" is not restricted to just Christians but
can happen with any person or group.

 

[deanrd]

I think not. Here's why.



Believers are not obligated to observe the Sabbath. The Sabbath was the sign of the Mosaic covenant. The Mosaic covenant and the Sabbath as the covenant sign are no longer applicable now that the new covenant of Jesus Christ has come. Believers are called upon to honor and respect those who think the Sabbath is still mandatory for believers. But if one argues that the Sabbath is required for salvation, such a teaching is contrary to the gospel and should be resisted forcefully. In any case, Paul makes it clear in both Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16–17 that the Sabbath has passed away now that Christ has come. It is wise naturally for believers to rest, and hence one principle that could be derived from the Sabbath is that believers should regularly rest. But the New Testament does not specify when that rest should take place, nor does it set forth a period of time when that rest should occur. We must remember that the early Christians were required to work on Sundays. They worshiped the Lord on the Lord’s Day, the day of Jesus’ resurrection, but the early Christians did not believe the Lord’s Day fulfilled or replaced the Sabbath. The Sabbath pointed toward eschatological rest in Christ, which believers enjoy in part now and will enjoy fully on the Last Day.

Once they stop protecting sick people and they stopped wanting to help children, then who cares what day they worry about?
I don’t believe they are real Christians.

Here's a plan, Man. Why don't you go protect some sick people and help some children, eh.

I don't believe that's who you are.

Would that make me a “real“ Christian?

 

[norwegen]

Same old easily refuted twisting of the Scriptures as the Daughters of the Whore have always done.

Dear Death Angel
Quite the opposite, in Christ Jesus there are no stumbling blocks
but all error or conflicts can be removed and resolved by truth.

By the New Testament restoration of justice in Christ Jesus
there is no more twisting of scriptures by the letter of the law.

Believers unite in agreement on forgiving past conflicts
and correcting based on truth that sets all relation
free from strife, error and stumbling block conditions.

We resolve all issues in Christ Jesus to establish agreement in truth.

Do you understand that all issues are resolved.
So there is no more haggling or twisting of laws.

All things are made right, good, whole and perfect
in Christ Jesus.

Rev 21:4-5 Behold I make all things new

Revelation 21:5

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matthew 5:48
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

1 John 4:18

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”

None of your word salad does away with the SABBATH kept Holy by the prophets, Jesus or the apostles.

Pick ONE Scripture you believe changes GOD'S COMMANDMENTS and I will address it honestly. Beyond that, you are left to think as you will

Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven

Dear Death Angel
Sorry I thought you were talking about something else.

We don't disagree.
I agree we keep the Sabbath
We follow the laws NATURALLY BY FAITH.

Which is DIFFERENT from enforcing them as conditions.

We no longer ENSLAVE anyone to laws LEGALISTICALLY
in the spirit of judgment or rejection, trying to condemn
or be a "stumbling block" condition for others to fail.

Is this more clear?

The point is NOT to become so lax that anyone disrespects the laws.
The point is to follow freely by choice to commit to Christ Jesus
authority which then FULFILLS the laws. Both the SPIRIT and the LETTER
are fulfilled that way, by putting the SPIRIT first so the LETTER NATURALLY FOLLOWS.

But not vice versa.
If we put the LETTER before the SPIRIT this can cause stumbling
blocks where NEITHER gets met. That's what I am pointing out.

If we do this RIGHT, then we FOLLOW BOTH THE SPIRIT
and the LETTER of the law in that order. Thank you Death Angel
and I agree with you there should be no "twisting" or taking
laws out of context with the WHOLE and SPIRIT of the law
where you lose both. That's not what I was trying to do either
sorry this wasn't clear.

What letter? What law do Christians follow by the letter?

Dear norwegen
It depends on the person, but each person or sometimes whole groups
will take certain Scriptures and make a priority out of upholding that one.

Some might focus against abortion as against murder, for example.
Some might focus on "man lying with man" as an abomination.
Some haggle over whether the REAL name of God is
YHWH and Jesus is supposed to be YESHUA etc.

The difference I have found is whether people believe
in reconciliation by Restorative Justice / Christ Jesus.

If they are trying to seek correction through forgiveness
and inclusion of others to resolve relationships.

Vs. trying to enforce rules to reject, condemn and
separate or exclude other people or groups.

Whatever you call this process of "haggling over the
letter of the law" it can become so "legalistic" as
to lose the spirit of the law and process itself.

I find if we agree in spirit first, then we can resolve
any differences we see in the written laws or letter.

NOTE: I find the same with Constitutional laws as well,
people can "cherry pick" different principles out of context
with the whole Constitution. In truth, ALL the principles in
the Constitution are supposed to upheld as a whole. But
when people get so caught up in defending a certain issue,
they can get very legalistic and forget that the law is
designed to protect the rights and beliefs of the other
person they are arguing with as well. If you only argue
to use the law to defend your side, it can't be at the
expense of the other person's right to defend their
beliefs as well. The spirit of the laws based on "consent of
the governed" and "no taxation without representation" is
about protecting ALL people from abuse of govt to infringe
on ANY person's beliefs. Instead I frequently see people so
caught up in enforcing SPECIFIC laws to defend their own beliefs,
they lose sight of other people's equal rights under other laws
that are equally included.

This "legalism" is not restricted to just Christians but
can happen with any person or group.

Christians do not abide by the letter of any law, as the OP implies. Any written law in the Bible is Mosaic law.

 

[HaShev]

FULL CONTEXT:
YOU WERE TO KEEP SHEVOT
THE SHEVA (7TH DAY) HOLY IN REMEMBERANCE OF THE NAME.
That HaShem (Name) is not Sunday and is not Jesus so you already lost sight of the command to remember for it's "time to come". Therefore you goys might as well spend your sundays watching football, you were rooting for the wrong god and side anyway.
*shaking my head*

 

[shimon]

HOLY means separate....For you are a Holy or separate people.....People cannot be Holy or separate if they forget or are not taught the original teachings or they become corrupted over time thru ignorance or bad teachings whether on purpose or not....Once I had a heated discussion about this on the Korean board many year ago where the fellow I was discussing this with said one day is the same as the next and how do you know originally when the seventh day would occur... My response to this was to look simply at a calendar and one can see that originally all calendars start on a Sunday and end on Saturday the seventh day and that even though Christianity changed the times and days like we were warned they would they still kept the calendar starting on Sunday and ending on Saturday..He still had his take on this as well but the point he missed and the one Trump card is that it is the SHEVA day that we are to keep in rememberance of his name.... In that clue is the answer and so many people don’t realize or have forgotten its importance which is really too bad and unfortunate to say the least....

 

[emilynghiem]

What letter? What law do Christians follow by the letter?

Dear norwegen
It depends on the person, but each person or sometimes whole groups
will take certain Scriptures and make a priority out of upholding that one.

Some might focus against abortion as against murder, for example.
Some might focus on "man lying with man" as an abomination.
Some haggle over whether the REAL name of God is
YHWH and Jesus is supposed to be YESHUA etc.

The difference I have found is whether people believe
in reconciliation by Restorative Justice / Christ Jesus.

If they are trying to seek correction through forgiveness
and inclusion of others to resolve relationships.

Vs. trying to enforce rules to reject, condemn and
separate or exclude other people or groups.

Whatever you call this process of "haggling over the
letter of the law" it can become so "legalistic" as
to lose the spirit of the law and process itself.

I find if we agree in spirit first, then we can resolve
any differences we see in the written laws or letter.

NOTE: I find the same with Constitutional laws as well,
people can "cherry pick" different principles out of context
with the whole Constitution. In truth, ALL the principles in
the Constitution are supposed to upheld as a whole. But
when people get so caught up in defending a certain issue,
they can get very legalistic and forget that the law is
designed to protect the rights and beliefs of the other
person they are arguing with as well. If you only argue
to use the law to defend your side, it can't be at the
expense of the other person's right to defend their
beliefs as well. The spirit of the laws based on "consent of
the governed" and "no taxation without representation" is
about protecting ALL people from abuse of govt to infringe
on ANY person's beliefs. Instead I frequently see people so
caught up in enforcing SPECIFIC laws to defend their own beliefs,
they lose sight of other people's equal rights under other laws
that are equally included.

This "legalism" is not restricted to just Christians but
can happen with any person or group.

Christians do not abide by the letter of any law, as the OP implies. Any written law in the Bible is Mosaic law.

Dear norwegen
I sense you and I are talking about 3 different things, not 2.

1. Mosaic or Judaic law as in the law for the ISRAELITES
2. God's universal laws that exist naturally and are in the Bible but not dependent on Jewish authority or the Bible or the elders/institutions to enforce
3. "living by the letter of the law" as in living LEGALISTICALLY regardless which law is being used to pick at "by the letter"

Christians are supposed to follow laws as in #2.

Jews and others called to live by and obey the laws for the Hebrews/Jews can be a specific tribe or calling. Some are Christian some are more Jewish.

Even Muslims are called to follow God's laws including Scripture as in #2.

Christians are not supposed to be as "stumbling blocks" or "clashing cymbals" haggling LEGALISTICALLY as in #3 either.

But that's what happens with any group, including Christians or not. People get LEGALISTIC in that sense.

Are you talking about Christians not being bound by laws as in #1. Because some ARE CALLED to obey those laws, and some do so in order to act as "judges" for the sake of rebuke, corrections, and checks against abuses and violations.

There are different roles different people play.

So it depends on the person what role they are called to serve.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

1. Mosaic or Judaic law as in the law for the ISRAELITES
2. God's universal laws that exist naturally and are in the Bible but not dependent on Jewish authority or the Bible or the elders/institutions to enforce
3. "living by the letter of the law" as in living LEGALISTICALLY regardless which law is being used to pick at "by the letter"

Christians are supposed to follow laws as in #2.

The SABBATH existed at the creation of the world.

1) Adam was not an Israelite.

2) Jesus said, THE SABBATH (NOT SUNDAY), WAS MADE FOR MAN (not the Jew).

3) CHRISTIANS follow the perfect example of Christ -- NOT CONSTANTINE, and not some "Pope" who fulfills the antichrist (changing Times and Laws)

 

[HaShev]

HOLY means separate....For you are a Holy or separate people.....People cannot be Holy or separate if they forget or are not taught the original teachings or they become corrupted over time thru ignorance or bad teachings whether on purpose or not....Once I had a heated discussion about this on the Korean board many year ago where the fellow I was discussing this with said one day is the same as the next and how do you know originally when the seventh day would occur... My response to this was to look simply at a calendar and one can see that originally all calendars start on a Sunday and end on Saturday the seventh day and that even though Christianity changed the times and days like we were warned they would they still kept the calendar starting on Sunday and ending on Saturday..He still had his take on this as well but the point he missed and the one Trump card is that it is the SHEVA day that we are to keep in rememberance of his name.... In that clue is the answer and so many people don’t realize or have forgotten its importance which is really too bad and unfortunate to say the least....

Does that Korean board still exist?
Might need a new board as this place is getting to full of censorship and hidden agenda tactics. Would be nice to revisit that or similar forum now that they have a new special respect for Jews.
Plus they can recommend
some Korean Dramas and series.
Last one I saw through was
The series I Do, I Do, I Do, that was funny. It was about a guy who works for his father making knock off shoes & gets hit then favor hired by an older woman shoe designer who his father has done knock offs of.

 

[shimon]

HOLY means separate....For you are a Holy or separate people.....People cannot be Holy or separate if they forget or are not taught the original teachings or they become corrupted over time thru ignorance or bad teachings whether on purpose or not....Once I had a heated discussion about this on the Korean board many year ago where the fellow I was discussing this with said one day is the same as the next and how do you know originally when the seventh day would occur... My response to this was to look simply at a calendar and one can see that originally all calendars start on a Sunday and end on Saturday the seventh day and that even though Christianity changed the times and days like we were warned they would they still kept the calendar starting on Sunday and ending on Saturday..He still had his take on this as well but the point he missed and the one Trump card is that it is the SHEVA day that we are to keep in rememberance of his name.... In that clue is the answer and so many people don’t realize or have forgotten its importance which is really too bad and unfortunate to say the least....

Does that Korean board still exist?
Might need a new board as this place is getting to full of censorship and hidden agenda tactics. Would be nice to revisit that or similar forum now that they have a new special respect for Jews.
Plus they can recommend
some Korean Dramas and series.
Last one I saw through was
The series I Do, I Do, I Do, that was funny.

I don’t know if that board still exists it was some very interesting conversations we had over there and I have been enjoying some of their cultural treats lately as they are fantastic dancers and their food is excellent at least the food I am allowed to eat...As for this board unfortunately I will have to agree with you as it has slid a number of pegs and it wouldn’t surprise me if this topic ends up in the rubber room or something else that ruffles too many feathers.....I have not seen I Do , I Do, I Do thanks for the tip I will give it a look...

 

[rightwinger]

Only Christmas and Easter

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

HOLY means separate....For you are a Holy or separate people.....People cannot be Holy or separate if they forget or are not taught the original teachings or they become corrupted over time thru ignorance or bad teachings whether on purpose or not....Once I had a heated discussion about this on the Korean board many year ago where the fellow I was discussing this with said one day is the same as the next and how do you know originally when the seventh day would occur... My response to this was to look simply at a calendar and one can see that originally all calendars start on a Sunday and end on Saturday the seventh day and that even though Christianity changed the times and days like we were warned they would they still kept the calendar starting on Sunday and ending on Saturday..He still had his take on this as well but the point he missed and the one Trump card is that it is the SHEVA day that we are to keep in rememberance of his name.... In that clue is the answer and so many people don’t realize or have forgotten its importance which is really too bad and unfortunate to say the least....

Does that Korean board still exist?
Might need a new board as this place is getting to full of censorship and hidden agenda tactics. Would be nice to revisit that or similar forum now that they have a new special respect for Jews.
Plus they can recommend
some Korean Dramas and series.
Last one I saw through was
The series I Do, I Do, I Do, that was funny.

I don’t know if that board still exists it was some very interesting conversations we had over there and I have been enjoying some of their cultural treats lately as they are fantastic dancers and their food is excellent at least the food I am allowed to eat...As for this board unfortunately I will have to agree with you as it has slid a number of pegs and it wouldn’t surprise me if this topic ends up in the rubber room or something else that ruffles too many feathers.....I have not seen I Do , I Do, I Do thanks for the tip I will give it a look...

Not all "Christians" follow Catholicism, or 5heir offspring the Protestants.

The Catholic Church openly admits to "changing the day," and they are proud of that.

Protestants are less honest and try to justify their Sunday observance thru twisting the Scriptures.

There are tens of millions in the USA alone who call themselves Christian but keep the Seventh Day as God commands. Many even reject the pagan holidays and observe the annual Holy Days as well.

 

[HaShev]

Only Christmas and Easter

Baal's (father of the morning Star)Birthday & Ishtar day- (mother of the morning star) -Rev 22:16
-ooops wrong god as per my post and why their dovotional day is Baal's reverenced SUNS DAY.

 

[HaShev]

HOLY means separate....For you are a Holy or separate people.....People cannot be Holy or separate if they forget or are not taught the original teachings or they become corrupted over time thru ignorance or bad teachings whether on purpose or not....Once I had a heated discussion about this on the Korean board many year ago where the fellow I was discussing this with said one day is the same as the next and how do you know originally when the seventh day would occur... My response to this was to look simply at a calendar and one can see that originally all calendars start on a Sunday and end on Saturday the seventh day and that even though Christianity changed the times and days like we were warned they would they still kept the calendar starting on Sunday and ending on Saturday..He still had his take on this as well but the point he missed and the one Trump card is that it is the SHEVA day that we are to keep in rememberance of his name.... In that clue is the answer and so many people don’t realize or have forgotten its importance which is really too bad and unfortunate to say the least....

Does that Korean board still exist?
Might need a new board as this place is getting to full of censorship and hidden agenda tactics. Would be nice to revisit that or similar forum now that they have a new special respect for Jews.
Plus they can recommend
some Korean Dramas and series.
Last one I saw through was
The series I Do, I Do, I Do, that was funny.

I don’t know if that board still exists it was some very interesting conversations we had over there and I have been enjoying some of their cultural treats lately as they are fantastic dancers and their food is excellent at least the food I am allowed to eat...As for this board unfortunately I will have to agree with you as it has slid a number of pegs and it wouldn’t surprise me if this topic ends up in the rubber room or something else that ruffles too many feathers.....I have not seen I Do , I Do, I Do thanks for the tip I will give it a look...

Not all "Christians" follow Catholicism, or 5heir offspring the Protestants.

The Catholic Church openly admits to "changing the day," and they are proud of that.

Protestants are less honest and try to justify their Sunday observance thru twisting the Scriptures.

There are tens of millions in the USA alone who call themselves Christian but keep the Seventh Day as God commands. Many even reject the pagan holidays and observe the annual Holy Days as well.

Yes, you are mentioning the Michaeline(Evening Star) faiths, like
the Sheva Day Adventist and JW's and Coptics.
The Jesuit (morning Star) faiths never mention the father as YHWH because the Jesuit faiths worship Baal and his son the fallen morning star. Hence my post.

 

[LittleNipper]

Christians (saved individuals) are not OBLIGED to do anything. That is not how grace works. That said, the person who becomes saved will find that he or she is being conformed to the image of the Lord Jesus Christ by the leading of the Holy Spirit There will be a growing desire to be a living testimony that will not cause people to turn from GOD.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

HOLY means separate....For you are a Holy or separate people.....People cannot be Holy or separate if they forget or are not taught the original teachings or they become corrupted over time thru ignorance or bad teachings whether on purpose or not....Once I had a heated discussion about this on the Korean board many year ago where the fellow I was discussing this with said one day is the same as the next and how do you know originally when the seventh day would occur... My response to this was to look simply at a calendar and one can see that originally all calendars start on a Sunday and end on Saturday the seventh day and that even though Christianity changed the times and days like we were warned they would they still kept the calendar starting on Sunday and ending on Saturday..He still had his take on this as well but the point he missed and the one Trump card is that it is the SHEVA day that we are to keep in rememberance of his name.... In that clue is the answer and so many people don’t realize or have forgotten its importance which is really too bad and unfortunate to say the least....

Does that Korean board still exist?
Might need a new board as this place is getting to full of censorship and hidden agenda tactics. Would be nice to revisit that or similar forum now that they have a new special respect for Jews.
Plus they can recommend
some Korean Dramas and series.
Last one I saw through was
The series I Do, I Do, I Do, that was funny.

I don’t know if that board still exists it was some very interesting conversations we had over there and I have been enjoying some of their cultural treats lately as they are fantastic dancers and their food is excellent at least the food I am allowed to eat...As for this board unfortunately I will have to agree with you as it has slid a number of pegs and it wouldn’t surprise me if this topic ends up in the rubber room or something else that ruffles too many feathers.....I have not seen I Do , I Do, I Do thanks for the tip I will give it a look...

Not all "Christians" follow Catholicism, or 5heir offspring the Protestants.

The Catholic Church openly admits to "changing the day," and they are proud of that.

Protestants are less honest and try to justify their Sunday observance thru twisting the Scriptures.

There are tens of millions in the USA alone who call themselves Christian but keep the Seventh Day as God commands. Many even reject the pagan holidays and observe the annual Holy Days as well.

Yes, you are mentioning the Michaeline(Evening Star) faiths, like
the Sheva Day Adventist and JW's and Coptics.
The Jesuit (morning Star) faiths never mention the father as YHWH because the Jesuit faiths worship Baal and his son the fallen morning star. Hence my post.

JWs are Sunday worshippers. I used to actually enjoy debating them on this topic when they came knocking. There are many groups though who have no relationship to Catholicism or Protestantism

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Christians (saved individuals) are not OBLIGED to do anything. That is not how grace works. That said, the person who becomes saved will find that he or she is being conformed to the image of the Lord Jesus Christ by the leading of the Holy Spirit There will be a growing desire to be a living testimony that will not cause people to turn from GOD.

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?””

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’

 

[shimon]

HOLY means separate....For you are a Holy or separate people.....People cannot be Holy or separate if they forget or are not taught the original teachings or they become corrupted over time thru ignorance or bad teachings whether on purpose or not....Once I had a heated discussion about this on the Korean board many year ago where the fellow I was discussing this with said one day is the same as the next and how do you know originally when the seventh day would occur... My response to this was to look simply at a calendar and one can see that originally all calendars start on a Sunday and end on Saturday the seventh day and that even though Christianity changed the times and days like we were warned they would they still kept the calendar starting on Sunday and ending on Saturday..He still had his take on this as well but the point he missed and the one Trump card is that it is the SHEVA day that we are to keep in rememberance of his name.... In that clue is the answer and so many people don’t realize or have forgotten its importance which is really too bad and unfortunate to say the least....

Does that Korean board still exist?
Might need a new board as this place is getting to full of censorship and hidden agenda tactics. Would be nice to revisit that or similar forum now that they have a new special respect for Jews.
Plus they can recommend
some Korean Dramas and series.
Last one I saw through was
The series I Do, I Do, I Do, that was funny.

I don’t know if that board still exists it was some very interesting conversations we had over there and I have been enjoying some of their cultural treats lately as they are fantastic dancers and their food is excellent at least the food I am allowed to eat...As for this board unfortunately I will have to agree with you as it has slid a number of pegs and it wouldn’t surprise me if this topic ends up in the rubber room or something else that ruffles too many feathers.....I have not seen I Do , I Do, I Do thanks for the tip I will give it a look...

Not all "Christians" follow Catholicism, or 5heir offspring the Protestants.

The Catholic Church openly admits to "changing the day," and they are proud of that.

Protestants are less honest and try to justify their Sunday observance thru twisting the Scriptures.

There are tens of millions in the USA alone who call themselves Christian but keep the Seventh Day as God commands. Many even reject the pagan holidays and observe the annual Holy Days as well.

Thus only a “Remnant” shall RETURN or in Hebrew HASHEV...

 

[emilynghiem]

1. Mosaic or Judaic law as in the law for the ISRAELITES
2. God's universal laws that exist naturally and are in the Bible but not dependent on Jewish authority or the Bible or the elders/institutions to enforce
3. "living by the letter of the law" as in living LEGALISTICALLY regardless which law is being used to pick at "by the letter"

Christians are supposed to follow laws as in #2.

The SABBATH existed at the creation of the world.

1) Adam was not an Israelite.

2) Jesus said, THE SABBATH (NOT SUNDAY), WAS MADE FOR MAN (not the Jew).

3) CHRISTIANS follow the perfect example of Christ -- NOT CONSTANTINE, and not some "Pope" who fulfills the antichrist (changing Times and Laws)

Dear Death Angel
There are a lot more variations and different denominations
that also are called to follow God's laws obediently.

Not all of them follow the same timeline.

The Hebrew Israelites are one group that is focused on obedience.
I have other friends who similarly are called as the "spiritual ISRAEL"
Some of these DO believe in following the laws in the OT that
was given to Israel

The Jehovah's Witnesses also follow a certain lineage
and ways of teaching the laws as was given to them.

For the Sabbath, there is also the interpretation
that the ENTIRE LAST AGE is the SABBATH AGE,
so this is where everyone lives and does everything
for ministry. The Seven AGES represent STAGES
of Development, and we are in the LAST AGE.

Whatever tribal lineage God has given to people,
it is to organize among likeminded who are called
to follow the same path. As long as we all submit
to Christ Jesus as authority for all the laws and
authorities under ONE LORD or LAW for all, then
it will all come together. I believe God has given
people different denominations as part of the
divine plan to organize all people into tribes,
like branches of a tree that can house us all.