Another Liberal myth: Separation of church and state is not in the constitution

[AnnieInMexico]

Or is it that only atheists should have any influence over how our nation is governed? Everyone else should sit down and shut up?

Nahhh, to be honest that was the Christian way of doing things for many years. Over the past several years the courts have wagged that finger at Christians saying that they can't do that anymore. Now that Christians follow the same laws as the rest of us, now they believe they are (gasp) PERSECUTED! OMG! Heaven forbid, they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.

Bleh...

 

[Gadawg73]

How on earth do you know that?

Please support with a link..

Go to their web site and see the public filing of their tax return. Form 990.

Not one penny of government $$$ either directly ir indirectly. Not one penny of government contributions.
Not one cent.
Form 990. They file it every year. Go read it and inform yourself for a change. Public record.
Facts, not right wing rhetoric that is fraud.

The Form 990 will not show the income I am referring to because it is not required to be shown as income but rather is a reimbursement of expenses. It therefore offsets reported program costs.

As an example, if I contract to do a job for somebody and he pays me say $100 for materials, I do not report that $100 as income but instead use it to offset the expenses I report. The expenses I report will be $100 less than they would be if I had not received that $100. The net profit from the job is all I report as income.

Here is a text of Section 1988 of the Civil Rights act that allows for reimbursement of expenses, payment of attorney fees and payment for expert witnesses when a civil rights action is filed:

Section 1988. Proceedings in vindication of civil rights

(a) Applicability of statutory and common law
The jurisdiction in civil and criminal matters conferred on the
district courts by the provisions of titles 13, 24, and 70 of the
Revised Statutes for the protection of all persons in the United
States in their civil rights, and for their vindication, shall be
exercised and enforced in conformity with the laws of the United
States, so far as such laws are suitable to carry the same into
effect; but in all cases where they are not adapted to the object,
or are deficient in the provisions necessary to furnish suitable
remedies and punish offenses against law, the common law, as
modified and changed by the constitution and statutes of the State
wherein the court having jurisdiction of such civil or criminal
cause is held, so far as the same is not inconsistent with the
Constitution and laws of the United States, shall be extended to
and govern the said courts in the trial and disposition of the
cause, and, if it is of a criminal nature, in the infliction of
punishment on the party found guilty.
(b) Attorney's fees
In any action or proceeding to enforce a provision of sections
1981, 1981a, 1982, 1983, 1985, and 1986 of this title, title IX of
Public Law 92-318 (20 U.S.C. 1681 et seq.), the Religious Freedom
Restoration Act of 1993 (42 U.S.C. 2000bb et seq.), the Religious
Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000 (42 U.S.C.
2000cc et seq.), title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (42
U.S.C. 2000d et seq.), or section 13981 of this title, the court,
in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party, other than the
United States, a reasonable attorney's fee as part of the costs,
except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an
act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity such
officer shall not be held liable for any costs, including
attorney's fees, unless such action was clearly in excess of such
officer's jurisdiction.
(c) Expert fees
In awarding an attorney's fee under subsection (b) of this
section in any action or proceeding to enforce a provision of
section 1981 or 1981a of this title, the court, in its discretion,
may include expert fees as part of the attorney's fee.

Total BS and you know it. You are not citing tax code fool.
Less than 1% of their income is from a court awarding them attorney's fees.
Undisputable fact.
You are a kook with your claims that they actively solicit plaintiffs. That is a bar violation in every state in the country.
You are a kook with your claims that is how they run the ACLU Over 90% is from contributions. The rest is investments and less than 1% from attorney's fees.
Quit spreading lies to fit your agenda.
The ACLU does not solicit cases and only is given attorney's fees if a Judge orders it. And get this: just as in the Dover case in PA where a conservative Republican Bush appointed Federal Judge awarded attorneys' fees, the majority of Judges on the bench are Republican appointees.
But of course you will claim they are also "liberal" and award attorney's fees to those because they are liberals.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Or is it that only atheists should have any influence over how our nation is governed? Everyone else should sit down and shut up?

Nahhh, to be honest that was the Christian way of doing things for many years. Over the past several years the courts have wagged that finger at Christians saying that they can't do that anymore. Now that Christians follow the same laws as the rest of us, now they believe they are (gasp) PERSECUTED! OMG! Heaven forbid, they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.

Bleh...

While I appreciate the sincerity of your mindless bigotry and the diligence of your attempt at diversion and misdirection back to the aforementioned bigotry, all you've really told me is that you're too chickenshit to answer the question.

Your surrender is accepted. Please return to your previously scheduled ignorant hatred. Buh-bye, poltroon.

 

[koshergrl]

Remember, Nazis said it was okay to violate the rights of Jews because Jews had a long history of killing babies....

 

[AnnieInMexico]

While I appreciate the sincerity of your mindless bigotry and the diligence of your attempt at diversion and misdirection back to the aforementioned bigotry, all you've really told me is that you're too chickenshit to answer the question.

Your surrender is accepted. Please return to your previously scheduled ignorant hatred. Buh-bye, poltroon.

Ohhh, boo hoo! There we go with the self pity and persecution, just as I wrote. I'm a lot of things, oh my goodness I am a ton of things but a bigot? Nahhh. Your church just taught you that anyone who dares to disagree is clearly wrong, closed minded, and a bigot and just insult them and hope they run away with their tail between their legs.

No surrender here. There is a chickenshit here, but it ain't me! I love it, your type is so easy to predict. Simple mindedness doesn't get you far.

I don't hate religion, I don't hate faith. I do absolutely hate organized religion and the mindless drones that wallow in it, told what to do, what to think, who to sleep with, and how to conduct your lives or the sky daddy is gonna gitch'a... No, I have no tolerance for that.

Simple faith - all the respect in the world.

Now run along, you've gone and done it. You made an ass of yourself.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

Remember, Nazis said it was okay to violate the rights of Jews because Jews had a long history of killing babies....

Oh snap! When you bring in Hitler or Nazis to a debate, you just lost.

Nobody is suggesting someone violate the rights of Christians. Heaven forbid no! We are suggesting you follow the same laws as the rest of us. I know I know it's that silly persecution thing again.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Or is it that only atheists should have any influence over how our nation is governed? Everyone else should sit down and shut up?

Where the right comes up with these inane inferences will forever be a mystery.

Where has anyone said anything about only ‘atheists’ having the only influence over how our nation is governed?

 

[AnnieInMexico]

Or is it that only atheists should have any influence over how our nation is governed? Everyone else should sit down and shut up?

Where the right comes up with these inane inferences will forever be a mystery.

Where has anyone said anything about only ‘atheists’ having the only influence over how our nation is governed?

Nobody. Nobody has written or implied any such thing. The right wingers just have their panties in a knot because they have to follow the same rules as the rest of us have had to since the beginning of the US. They honestly and sincerely believe this is persecution. They can't cram their religion down our collective throats anymore with their laws and our tax dollars going to demonstrate they believe in an old sorry, used up, warmed over, borrowed and borrowed again myth.

Watch the drama unfold. Sometimes I roll my eyes but others times I'm in an odd mood and I get a kick out of it.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sigh. Somebody else furnish Gadawg with a link. He isn't happy with any of mine that he keeps demanding while providing none of his own to back up his claims.

I want to go do something fun for awhile.

 

[Foxfyre]

Or is it that only atheists should have any influence over how our nation is governed? Everyone else should sit down and shut up?

Nahhh, to be honest that was the Christian way of doing things for many years. Over the past several years the courts have wagged that finger at Christians saying that they can't do that anymore. Now that Christians follow the same laws as the rest of us, now they believe they are (gasp) PERSECUTED! OMG! Heaven forbid, they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.

Bleh...

You're wrong. When the country was first founded the government, as the government then believed in complete freedom short of violating the rights of others, did permit a few states and colonies to maintain localized theocracies. With no pressure or influence from the Federal government, the people themselves did away with those little theocracies by the end of the 18th Century.

There is no instance of any organized religion or group having ANY power in the Federal government before or since that time. For most of 200 years. the Republic went along in pretty good form by allowing people of all faiths to exercise their religion as they wished and to petition their government as all citizens have a right to do. Then little by little the pressure was applied to remove anything religious from the public venue.

The way I read the Constitution, as a Christian I still have the right to petition my goverment for any grievances, communicate with my elected representatives or any other member of Congress or the White House, and make my wishes known.

The Atheists, anti-Christians, anti-religious and some others would shut every Christian up if they could. Consign them to stay hidden away or at least confine them to the back of the bus. And every now and then they try.

 

[FactFinder]

Or is it that only atheists should have any influence over how our nation is governed? Everyone else should sit down and shut up?

Nahhh, to be honest that was the Christian way of doing things for many years. Over the past several years the courts have wagged that finger at Christians saying that they can't do that anymore. Now that Christians follow the same laws as the rest of us, now they believe they are (gasp) PERSECUTED! OMG! Heaven forbid, they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.

Bleh...

You're wrong. When the country was first founded the government, as the government then believed in complete freedom short of violating the rights of others, did permit a few states and colonies to maintain localized theocracies. With no pressure or influence from the Federal government, the people themselves did away with those little theocracies by the end of the 18th Century.

There is no instance of any organized religion or group having ANY power in the Federal government before or since that time. For most of 200 years. the Republic went along in pretty good form by allowing people of all faiths to exercise their religion as they wished and to petition their government as all citizens have a right to do. Then little by little the pressure was applied to remove anything religious from the public venue.

The way I read the Constitution, as a Christian I still have the right to petition my goverment for any grievances, communicate with my elected representatives or any other member of Congress or the White House, and make my wishes known.

The Atheists, anti-Christians, anti-religious and some others would shut every Christian up if they could. Consign them to stay hidden away or at least confine them to the back of the bus. And every now and then they try.

Consigned to the back of the bus.....hmmmmm So wasn't Christ.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

You're wrong. When the country was first founded the government, as the government then believed in complete freedom short of violating the rights of others, did permit a few states and colonies to maintain localized theocracies. With no pressure or influence from the Federal government, the people themselves did away with those little theocracies by the end of the 18th Century.

There is no instance of any organized religion or group having ANY power in the Federal government before or since that time. For most of 200 years. the Republic went along in pretty good form by allowing people of all faiths to exercise their religion as they wished and to petition their government as all citizens have a right to do. Then little by little the pressure was applied to remove anything religious from the public venue.

There are many laws that are/were on the books as a direct result of Christianity. Abortion, that's a Christian thing only. They are the ones that believe in a soul and when it enters the glob of cells. Gay marriages, atheists still can't run for office in TX. While I am quite sure that would be easily challenged it's still on the books as it is in many states. All Christian. "In God we trust" wasn't originally on money, McCarthy era. So... so much for the govt not messing with religion and religion not messing with the govt.

The way I read the Constitution, as a Christian I still have the right to petition my goverment for any grievances, communicate with my elected representatives or any other member of Congress or the White House, and make my wishes known.

Has anyone suggested otherwise? I'm very serious, has anyone on this thread suggested otherwise? I'll go up against any such person. Who was it? But with that aside, have you bothered telling your govt what your feelings and opinions are? They aren't listening to any of us anymore.

The Atheists, anti-Christians, anti-religious and some others would shut every Christian up if they could. Consign them to stay hidden away or at least confine them to the back of the bus. And every now and then they try.

HA! Yes, very true. There are fundie atheists just like there are fundie Christians. But do you have the slightest idea what we have put up with for hundreds of years? I have to make it a point to LIE about my lack of faith in an employment setting. I have to LIE to my patients. I've been chastised for working on the Lord's Day before. I was taking care of him after his heart attack while he was in CCU!

Nobody 'chooses' to become atheist. You just start looking at the facts and the history and you realize there is no way you can possibly believe anymore. No matter how hard you try you are just being dishonest with yourself. So you finally acknowledge ... "I am atheist." When I expressed these feelings to my Christian friends I lost 3 friends. They couldn't bother to be around an atheist. Two guys who were fixing my car overheard a conversation I was having with someone else and they were just sure I had the mark of the devil on my hands. Huh? I don't even know what that is! They demanded to see my hands. I showed them and they wanted to know where the mark was. ??? They refused to finish working on my car.

One person (I grant you, a drama filled nutjob) found out I was atheist and went to our nurse manager and told her she was afraid of me and needed to go home. Each time she was around me she could feel the demons I worship trying to get into her and resisting them was giving her a headache. I totally lack belief in a Satan or demons. Yet people swear I worship them.

Yes, welcome to my world. I'll bet you that Christians have had it a whole heck of a lot easier than atheists in the last couple of hundred years. Please know, I am not making less of your experiences but please, let's put this into perspective.

 

[Gadawg73]

Or is it that only atheists should have any influence over how our nation is governed? Everyone else should sit down and shut up?

Nahhh, to be honest that was the Christian way of doing things for many years. Over the past several years the courts have wagged that finger at Christians saying that they can't do that anymore. Now that Christians follow the same laws as the rest of us, now they believe they are (gasp) PERSECUTED! OMG! Heaven forbid, they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.

Bleh...

While I appreciate the sincerity of your mindless bigotry and the diligence of your attempt at diversion and misdirection back to the aforementioned bigotry, all you've really told me is that you're too chickenshit to answer the question.

Your surrender is accepted. Please return to your previously scheduled ignorant hatred. Buh-bye, poltroon.

She schooled you on that one.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

Nahhh, to be honest that was the Christian way of doing things for many years. Over the past several years the courts have wagged that finger at Christians saying that they can't do that anymore. Now that Christians follow the same laws as the rest of us, now they believe they are (gasp) PERSECUTED! OMG! Heaven forbid, they have to follow the same laws as everyone else.

Bleh...

While I appreciate the sincerity of your mindless bigotry and the diligence of your attempt at diversion and misdirection back to the aforementioned bigotry, all you've really told me is that you're too chickenshit to answer the question.

Your surrender is accepted. Please return to your previously scheduled ignorant hatred. Buh-bye, poltroon.

She schooled you on that one.

Well, she gave it her best shot anyway. We must give a little credit anytime there is the tiny opportunity to do so.

 

[Foxfyre]

You're wrong. When the country was first founded the government, as the government then believed in complete freedom short of violating the rights of others, did permit a few states and colonies to maintain localized theocracies. With no pressure or influence from the Federal government, the people themselves did away with those little theocracies by the end of the 18th Century.

There is no instance of any organized religion or group having ANY power in the Federal government before or since that time. For most of 200 years. the Republic went along in pretty good form by allowing people of all faiths to exercise their religion as they wished and to petition their government as all citizens have a right to do. Then little by little the pressure was applied to remove anything religious from the public venue.

There are many laws that are/were on the books as a direct result of Christianity. Abortion, that's a Christian thing only. They are the ones that believe in a soul and when it enters the glob of cells. Gay marriages, atheists still can't run for office in TX. While I am quite sure that would be easily challenged it's still on the books as it is in many states. All Christian. "In God we trust" wasn't originally on money, McCarthy era. So... so much for the govt not messing with religion and religion not messing with the govt.

The way I read the Constitution, as a Christian I still have the right to petition my goverment for any grievances, communicate with my elected representatives or any other member of Congress or the White House, and make my wishes known.

Has anyone suggested otherwise? I'm very serious, has anyone on this thread suggested otherwise? I'll go up against any such person. Who was it? But with that aside, have you bothered telling your govt what your feelings and opinions are? They aren't listening to any of us anymore.

The Atheists, anti-Christians, anti-religious and some others would shut every Christian up if they could. Consign them to stay hidden away or at least confine them to the back of the bus. And every now and then they try.

HA! Yes, very true. There are fundie atheists just like there are fundie Christians. But do you have the slightest idea what we have put up with for hundreds of years? I have to make it a point to LIE about my lack of faith in an employment setting. I have to LIE to my patients. I've been chastised for working on the Lord's Day before. I was taking care of him after his heart attack while he was in CCU!

Nobody 'chooses' to become atheist. You just start looking at the facts and the history and you realize there is no way you can possibly believe anymore. No matter how hard you try you are just being dishonest with yourself. So you finally acknowledge ... "I am atheist." When I expressed these feelings to my Christian friends I lost 3 friends. They couldn't bother to be around an atheist. Two guys who were fixing my car overheard a conversation I was having with someone else and they were just sure I had the mark of the devil on my hands. Huh? I don't even know what that is! They demanded to see my hands. I showed them and they wanted to know where the mark was. ??? They refused to finish working on my car.

One person (I grant you, a drama filled nutjob) found out I was atheist and went to our nurse manager and told her she was afraid of me and needed to go home. Each time she was around me she could feel the demons I worship trying to get into her and resisting them was giving her a headache. I totally lack belief in a Satan or demons. Yet people swear I worship them.

Yes, welcome to my world. I'll bet you that Christians have had it a whole heck of a lot easier than atheists in the last couple of hundred years. Please know, I am not making less of your experiences but please, let's put this into perspective.

Abortion is not a Christian thing only. Christian can oppose abortion and Christians can also be pro choice. Ditto for Jews and Buddhists and Atheists. The only thing unique to Christians is the practice of Christianity.

The First Amendment protects Christians and Atheists alike. Each has the right to request his or her preferences be honored, and each can be overruled by the majorty. But, short of violating the rights of another, neither may have their unalienable rights to believe, think, speak, or act infringed by the government.

The confusion comes in the fact that because there are more Christians than any other group throughout our national history, Christian influence is far more likely to be prevalent in our institutions, culture, symbols, music, architecture, mores, and values than will any other group. That is as it should be. It was primarily Christians who founded, explored, settled, and set up the institutions in this country. The people with unalienable rights protected are free to form whatever sort of society they wish to have, and for most of American history, the people have preferred a society influenced by Chrisitian values and conduct for the most part.

If you go to Japan, you will find very little Christian influence there but the culture will be uniquely Japanese. Likewise in Tibet you will see mosques and Buddhist temples, but almost no Christian influence at all.

America being a primarily Christian nation is not an evil thing. It is a good thing because it affords all people, Christian or not, protection of their unalienable rights which includes believing Christian doctrine or not, practicing Christian rites and rituals or not, or conducting ourselves by any creed or lack of creed that we choose.

Those who would like to see Christianity diminished, hidden, sent to the back of the bus, should they succeed, I think will not like the country they will then have.

 

[koshergrl]

Remember, Nazis said it was okay to violate the rights of Jews because Jews had a long history of killing babies....

Oh snap! When you bring in Hitler or Nazis to a debate, you just lost.

Nobody is suggesting someone violate the rights of Christians. Heaven forbid no! We are suggesting you follow the same laws as the rest of us. I know I know it's that silly persecution thing again.

That's right, because we all know it's WRONG to learn from our mistakes, don't we?

Did or did not the Nazis claim it was okay to violate the rights of Jews based upon alleged past *crimes* committed by the Jews?

 

[FactFinder]

Actually the Constitution is a bit player in the grand scheme of life.

 

[koshergrl]

Or is it that only atheists should have any influence over how our nation is governed? Everyone else should sit down and shut up?

Where the right comes up with these inane inferences will forever be a mystery.

Where has anyone said anything about only ‘atheists’ having the only influence over how our nation is governed?

From asswipes who claim that Christians should not be allowed to teach, or to adhere to their faith in public, or allow their faith to influence them in any way, shape or form in the commission of their work as elected officials. From retards who attempt to subvert, twist and alter the Constitution in order to justify discrimination against Christians, while at the same time promoting their own skewed world order....

So we get it from you.

 

[Dr Grump]

Remember, Nazis said it was okay to violate the rights of Jews because Jews had a long history of killing babies....

Oh snap! When you bring in Hitler or Nazis to a debate, you just lost.

Nobody is suggesting someone violate the rights of Christians. Heaven forbid no! We are suggesting you follow the same laws as the rest of us. I know I know it's that silly persecution thing again.

That's right, because we all know it's WRONG to learn from our mistakes, don't we?

Did or did not the Nazis claim it was okay to violate the rights of Jews based upon alleged past *crimes* committed by the Jews?

So now you're comparing the holocaust to those who want prayer in school on my dime? hhhmmmm

 

[koshergrl]

You're just here because somebody posted a pic of male buns..