And now a word from the "Coffee Party".....

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That article, along with many of the dems comments in this matter trying to demonize republicans for wanting to cut spending back to a place that is closer to our actual revenues by saying "they wanna end Social Security/Medicare or they hate grandma" has become the age old story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

At this point the republicans could actually get a bill out there that does do what the dems are falsely claiming the current one does with these programs and I wouldn't believe them if they called the reps out on it.

The dems/media have just lied too much on this.

 

[Two Thumbs]

How so? Many Republicans thought invasions with no exit plans and no formal appropriations were stupid and costly strategies; Non-sense. Most peopl know that war should be left to the warriors. The bs of an exit strategy came from morons like Kerry many Republicans were shocked at the way the full Republican majority literally dictated every Bush policy with little debate. Link. seriously, that's comical. Most Republicans KNOW that Constitutionally there are checks and balances guaranteed by the establishment of three branches of government, not just one that can use threats of veto power if it doesn't get its way in spite of strong congressional opposition. Most Republicans think exactly the same way I do--a balance of power and compromise is the ONLY way for good government to exist.

Compirmise is what's gotten us here.

Seriously? And here I thought you were one of the few who actually understood EXACTLY what happened to this economy. Wrong again. Can you say capitalism gone wild resulting in greed?

sure can

Can you say Barney Franks should have his nuts in a vice for lying and saying that Fannie and Freddie had were in great fiscal shape?

How about; NAFTA fucked us all?

or; Giving home loans to people on welfare was a bad idea?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Your words are always meaningless because you never show examples. How has the Constitution been violated?

The Patriot Act.

I meant by Obama.

The Patriot Act

He's increased it's powers and signed it 3 times.

 

[MaggieMae]

That article, along with many of the dems comments in this matter trying to demonize republicans for wanting to cut spending back to a place that is closer to our actual revenues by saying "they wanna end Social Security/Medicare or they hate grandma" has become the age old story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

At this point the republicans could actually get a bill out there that does do what the dems are falsely claiming the current one does with these programs and I wouldn't believe them if they called the reps out on it.

The dems/media have just lied too much on this.

I don't think the debate over SS/Medicare would have been so intense had Paul Ryan's proposal not been so ludicrous, which basically called for a cash giveaway, and after that you're on your own.

 

[Nic_Driver]

That article, along with many of the dems comments in this matter trying to demonize republicans for wanting to cut spending back to a place that is closer to our actual revenues by saying "they wanna end Social Security/Medicare or they hate grandma" has become the age old story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

At this point the republicans could actually get a bill out there that does do what the dems are falsely claiming the current one does with these programs and I wouldn't believe them if they called the reps out on it.

The dems/media have just lied too much on this.

The issue is not with cuts but with the Republican refusal to raise revenue. I don't think there has ever been any politician involved with this current debt issue who has refused to consider cuts in spending, none.

That manipulation of information is the type of lie we're used to from the GOP.

Why do the GOP and her apologists continue to distort and misrepresent the Democratic position?

Why do they continue their assault on the middle class? Why should the middleclass/poor not vote for Democrats?

The GOP caves to business demands and is trying to turn the US from a Republic to a Plutocracy...but somehow it’s considered 'hand-outs' when the voters are poor.

 

[MaggieMae]

Compirmise is what's gotten us here.

Seriously? And here I thought you were one of the few who actually understood EXACTLY what happened to this economy. Wrong again. Can you say capitalism gone wild resulting in greed?

sure can

Can you say Barney Franks should have his nuts in a vice for lying and saying that Fannie and Freddie had were in great fiscal shape?

How about; NAFTA fucked us all?

or; Giving home loans to people on welfare was a bad idea?

F&F were in good shape until they too got into the subprime profit extravaganza.

And it isn't NAFTA where all our jobs are going: That's the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement, specifically Canada and Mexico. It's all the others that jumped on the bandwagon, with some countries put on the so-called "fast-track" which bypassed Congressional approval completely.

The standards for giving home loans to people on welfare was INCREASED by the Bush Administration's 2004 policy of giving them no-down payment options, and non-conventional loans which provided leaner income-to-expense formulas. The whole purpose of that newer policy was to INCREASE minority homeownership!

Rather than posting AGAIN all the links to the above facts, time to do your own research: Just insert a few key words and voila!

 

[MaggieMae]

The Patriot Act.

I meant by Obama.

The Patriot Act

He's increased it's powers and signed it 3 times.

This is why I can't trust you and your ilk to get ANYTHING right. Obama signed ONE amendment to the PA, last May to be precise. The PA has been amended to remove portions that were an obvious violation of individual rights, such as snooping into library accounts, but it also added domestic terrorism tools. Funny you chose that particular issue, because as I recall it was all the cons who would shout out to anyone against the Patriot Act, "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about." Imagine that.

 

[Two Thumbs]

That article, along with many of the dems comments in this matter trying to demonize republicans for wanting to cut spending back to a place that is closer to our actual revenues by saying "they wanna end Social Security/Medicare or they hate grandma" has become the age old story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

At this point the republicans could actually get a bill out there that does do what the dems are falsely claiming the current one does with these programs and I wouldn't believe them if they called the reps out on it.

The dems/media have just lied too much on this.

The issue is not with cuts but with the Republican refusal to raise revenue. I don't think there has ever been any politician involved with this current debt issue who has refused to consider cuts in spending, none.

That manipulation of information is the type of lie we're used to from the GOP.

Why do the GOP and her apologists continue to distort and misrepresent the Democratic position?

Why do they continue their assault on the middle class? Why should the middleclass/poor not vote for Democrats?

The GOP caves to business demands and is trying to turn the US from a Republic to a Plutocracy...but somehow it’s considered 'hand-outs' when the voters are poor.

Did you know that GE works for obama and paid no taxes last year?

And what distortion? You want to make ~$4T in cuts but want to spread it out over 10 years AND raise taxes.

Everthink making deep cuts now will prevent the need for increasing taxes?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Seriously? And here I thought you were one of the few who actually understood EXACTLY what happened to this economy. Wrong again. Can you say capitalism gone wild resulting in greed?

sure can

Can you say Barney Franks should have his nuts in a vice for lying and saying that Fannie and Freddie had were in great fiscal shape?

How about; NAFTA fucked us all?

or; Giving home loans to people on welfare was a bad idea?

F&F were in good shape until they too got into the subprime profit extravaganza.

And it isn't NAFTA where all our jobs are going: That's the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement, specifically Canada and Mexico. It's all the others that jumped on the bandwagon, with some countries put on the so-called "fast-track" which bypassed Congressional approval completely.

The standards for giving home loans to people on welfare was INCREASED by the Bush Administration's 2004 policy of giving them no-down payment options, and non-conventional loans which provided leaner income-to-expense formulas. The whole purpose of that newer policy was to INCREASE minority homeownership!

Rather than posting AGAIN all the links to the above facts, time to do your own research: Just insert a few key words and voila!

So it seems we agree that both parties screwed us over.

So are you still a member of the DNC?

 

[Two Thumbs]

I meant by Obama.

The Patriot Act

He's increased it's powers and signed it 3 times.

This is why I can't trust you and your ilk to get ANYTHING right. Obama signed ONE amendment to the PA, last May to be precise. The PA has been amended to remove portions that were an obvious violation of individual rights, such as snooping into library accounts, but it also added domestic terrorism tools. Funny you chose that particular issue, because as I recall it was all the cons who would shout out to anyone against the Patriot Act, "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about." Imagine that.

It was conservatives that were against this. You know, us insane ones.

And wasn't it dems that screamed this was a violation of our rights and didn't obama say this was going to go away?

 

[MaggieMae]

That article, along with many of the dems comments in this matter trying to demonize republicans for wanting to cut spending back to a place that is closer to our actual revenues by saying "they wanna end Social Security/Medicare or they hate grandma" has become the age old story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

At this point the republicans could actually get a bill out there that does do what the dems are falsely claiming the current one does with these programs and I wouldn't believe them if they called the reps out on it.

The dems/media have just lied too much on this.

The issue is not with cuts but with the Republican refusal to raise revenue. I don't think there has ever been any politician involved with this current debt issue who has refused to consider cuts in spending, none.

That manipulation of information is the type of lie we're used to from the GOP.

Why do the GOP and her apologists continue to distort and misrepresent the Democratic position?

Why do they continue their assault on the middle class? Why should the middleclass/poor not vote for Democrats?

The GOP caves to business demands and is trying to turn the US from a Republic to a Plutocracy...but somehow it’s considered 'hand-outs' when the voters are poor.

Did you know that GE works for obama and paid no taxes last year?

And what distortion? You want to make ~$4T in cuts but want to spread it out over 10 years AND raise taxes.

Everthink making deep cuts now will prevent the need for increasing taxes?

The Republicans are NOT going to get $1-2 trillion just in cuts within this year, whether or not the debt ceiling is raised. Don't be so naive. Even their "plan" is over a 10-year period, of which I count only about five of the 20 listed in the slide show in this link would not hurt the working middle class. Do you ever check your facts anymore?

20 Huge Spending Cuts Republicans Want To Make Right Now

Conservative House Republicans unveiled a proposal to slash federal spending by $2.5 trillion over the next 10 years, taking aim at rail transit, goat farmers and a lot of programs in between.

 

[MaggieMae]

Did you know that GE works for obama and paid no taxes last year?

That's such bullshit. GE has always been profitable, and it too figured out that it could be even MORE profitable by making most of its smaller products out of country and could avoid paying US income tax at the same time. Let's find out who was successful in getting that sweet tax avoidance available, shall we? Here's a chance for you to do some actual research and come up with an answer for me.

 

[daveman]

There it is again, that buzzword 'job creators'.

I thought everyone, espespecially capitalists, knew that demand creates jobs.

And yet someone has to take advantage of the opportunity represented by that demand. If a million people stand up and say, "I want a three-handled family credenza!", nothing's going to happen until someone invests some capital, builds a three-handled family credenza factory, hires people, and starts making three-handled family credenzas to sell to those million people.

The problem is when government places heavy regulatory burdens on the making of three-handled family credenzas, making three-handled family credenzas too expensive to build for a price that those million people are willing to pay; and saying to the public that three-handled family credenza makers are what's wrong with the country, with all their three-handled family credenza private jets.

Get it now?

Yep, demand creates corporations in addition to creating jobs, got it.

No, you don't. Demand by itself creates nothing but opportunity. It takes a person to create jobs to fulfill that demand.

Those people are evil capitalists.

 

[daveman]

That's right. Just pisses you tea bagging conservatives off, doesn't it???

I could get behind him a little more if he actually showed some understanding of the Constitution.

Apparently, you can be a scholar in a subject and be utterly clueless about it.

Your words are always meaningless because you never show examples. How has the Constitution been violated?

Obama violated the Commerce Clause by mandating that every American purchase a product from a private company.

 

[daveman]

There it is again, that buzzword 'job creators'.

I thought everyone, espespecially capitalists, knew that demand creates jobs.

And yet someone has to take advantage of the opportunity represented by that demand. If a million people stand up and say, "I want a three-handled family credenza!", nothing's going to happen until someone invests some capital, builds a three-handled family credenza factory, hires people, and starts making three-handled family credenzas to sell to those million people.

The problem is when government places heavy regulatory burdens on the making of three-handled family credenzas, making three-handled family credenzas too expensive to build for a price that those million people are willing to pay; and saying to the public that three-handled family credenza makers are what's wrong with the country, with all their three-handled family credenza private jets.

Get it now?

This is something "new" that has occurred just since Obama was elected? When YOU start understanding that HE didn't generate the corporate mindset that "stuff" can be produced much cheaper overseas and income taxes avoided as well, then you'll finally "get it."

Ummm...where did I say that? Oh, yeah -- nowhere.

However, Obama is pushing for more intrusive and oppressive government regulation of business.

 

[daveman]

Seriously? And here I thought you were one of the few who actually understood EXACTLY what happened to this economy. Wrong again. Can you say capitalism gone wild resulting in greed?

sure can

Can you say Barney Franks should have his nuts in a vice for lying and saying that Fannie and Freddie had were in great fiscal shape?

How about; NAFTA fucked us all?

or; Giving home loans to people on welfare was a bad idea?

F&F were in good shape until they too got into the subprime profit extravaganza.

And it isn't NAFTA where all our jobs are going: That's the North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement, specifically Canada and Mexico. It's all the others that jumped on the bandwagon, with some countries put on the so-called "fast-track" which bypassed Congressional approval completely.

The standards for giving home loans to people on welfare was INCREASED by the Bush Administration's 2004 policy of giving them no-down payment options, and non-conventional loans which provided leaner income-to-expense formulas. The whole purpose of that newer policy was to INCREASE minority homeownership!

Rather than posting AGAIN all the links to the above facts, time to do your own research: Just insert a few key words and voila!

You mean key words like North Atlantic Free Trade Agreement?

What is the north atlantic free trade agreement

There is no such thing as North ATLANTIC Free Trade Agreement. NAFTA is for North American Free Trade Agreement, signed by the governments of the United States, Canada, and Mexico creating a trilateral trade bloc in North America.​

 

[MaggieMae]

It's official:

This thread is now bigger than the Coffee Party.

Well if I recall, the Tea Party started out just two years ago as a one-man band. Dick Armey.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Such policies are not detrimental to the middle and lower income people; on the contrary it offers more jobs and an increased chance to advance.

Oh really? How do you explain the wage gap, the income gap, the fact that real wages have been stagnant and are now in alarming decline? Such policies have ABSOLUTELY been detrimental to the working poor and middle class. Take your head out of the CEO's ass and look around you.

Salary of Top American Executives Up 23 Percent in 2010 - ABC News

 

[MaggieMae]

There it is again, that buzzword 'job creators'.

I thought everyone, espespecially capitalists, knew that demand creates jobs.

And yet someone has to take advantage of the opportunity represented by that demand. If a million people stand up and say, "I want a three-handled family credenza!", nothing's going to happen until someone invests some capital, builds a three-handled family credenza factory, hires people, and starts making three-handled family credenzas to sell to those million people.

The problem is when government places heavy regulatory burdens on the making of three-handled family credenzas, making three-handled family credenzas too expensive to build for a price that those million people are willing to pay; and saying to the public that three-handled family credenza makers are what's wrong with the country, with all their three-handled family credenza private jets.

Get it now?

Yep, demand creates corporations in addition to creating jobs, got it.

With the successful return of the last Atlantis space flight, we'll be seeing many documentaries on the 30-year program in the near future. It will be interesting to see how many private enterprises have been created as a result of the multi-billion dollar GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED, GOVERNMENT-FUNDED space endeavors. Many of the people currently on NASA's payroll will now be solely working for private industry either directly in space travel or similar fields, and they will be scooped up in no time flat.

 

[MaggieMae]

Name one that would do that.

Name one single pol that wants to cut off all support and put people out into the cold.

and no, I was not agreeing with you

The tea party faction elected last year are standing in the way of real reform. All you have to do is read the right-wing publications, these message boards and the blogs they often refer to in order to see that way too many actually believe that abolishing all "welfare" would lead to greater sustainability. The argument being that ONLY individuals should be responsible for their own situations, and disregarding circumstances that may have been no fault of their own--like losing a job because some private sector business couldn't keep its head above water, even with massive tax breaks and deregulation.

Who?

Who specifically says these things. I've been here for a while and have yet to hear anyone say close down welfare or any other support 100%.

I've concluded you don't "hear" much of anything.