And now a word from the "Coffee Party".....

[AVG-JOE]

Here is a brief bio of the man who wrote the letter. I guess if you don't agree with him, he's not a Republican, is that correct?

Michael Stafford is a 2003 graduate of Duke University School of Law, a former Republican Party officer from Delaware, and the founder of the Coffee Party 2.0 pilot project, Republicans for Responsible Reform. His writing has been featured on national and local blogs such as FrumForum, The Cagle Post, and TommyWonk. He is the author of An Upward Calling: Politics for the Common Good published by AVT Books.

I'd like to see who he wants to run on the GOP Platform in 2012.

I may send his campaign fund a check just because of this thread.

 

[AVG-JOE]

" Your handling of the debt ceiling negotiations, and the prior budget proposals advanced in Representative Paul Ryan’s “Path to Prosperity,” makes it clear that the GOP is more concerned with protecting the interests of America’s most wealthy citizens, even to the detriment of the rest of us, and to the common good. "


Hard to believe he's a republican after writing that. It's just wrong, sure some repubs are in bed with the uberwealthy and special interests, but so are many dems. The fact is that the GOP believes in enacting policies that incentivize new business and expanding existing businesses, and those policies by default aid the wealthy most of all cuz they're the ones with the capital to invest and make the big bucks as a result. Such policies are not detrimental to the middle and lower income people; on the contrary it offers more jobs and an increased chance to advance.

I can't think of a better reason to find out what they say and how they vote instead of just heeding how their labeled. Marco Rubio is another republican who has publicly stated and no uncertain terms that he favors ground up reformation of our tax code and a balanced budget amendment.

If he continues to prove that position in reality, he'll always get my vote.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Here is a brief bio of the man who wrote the letter. I guess if you don't agree with him, he's not a Republican, is that correct?

Michael Stafford is a 2003 graduate of Duke University School of Law, a former Republican Party officer from Delaware, and the founder of the Coffee Party 2.0 pilot project, Republicans for Responsible Reform. His writing has been featured on national and local blogs such as FrumForum, The Cagle Post, and TommyWonk. He is the author of An Upward Calling: Politics for the Common Good published by AVT Books.

I'd like to see who he wants to run on the GOP Platform in 2012.

As for his partisan credentials, I still smell a rat, I see it floating in the air.

In terms of partisan bickering, you don't establish your credentials by slicing the feet out from under your friends. And right now partisan credentials are less important than getting a useful solution.

The particular grievance i have with both sides is they find it necessary to take things to the brink either as the only means to get a negotiation on their points, or they are willing to force default rather than negotiate in good faith.

I am looking for someone to come up with a deal that gets both sides out of the game of chicken, but does not let the problem continue forever. If nothing else, get us past February 1 of 2013, as I am very sure the present leadership in Washington is incapable of dealing with it in an adult manner.

Step one is for Obama to make real cuts. Step two is for the republicans to budge on the issue of goofy tax breaks. But step one has to happen first. Republican trust of Democrat promises is less than zero.

It starts with ground up reformation of our patently unfair tax code with an emphasis on fairness through simplicity.

The time to swell the unemployment lines with tax attorneys, lobbyists and employees of H & R Block is over due.

 

[AVG-JOE]

LOL, sure he is a Republican.

all I saw was, blaaa blaaa blaaaa, you Republicans bad, them Democrats ARE the saints in all this.

It sounded right out of the playbook of the Liberals on this board.

what a JOKE

I read it and he never said dems were right, correct or sane. Why are you so sensitive all the time?

He critiques his own party and the first thing repubs scream is he's a liar and a phony whos not really a conservative. In short unless Republicans say the same as every other republican they are not a real republican or worse...a democrat is disguise. It's tiring to always be so defensive about everything and see boogeymen around every corner, news story, blog etc.

Shit it wasn't that long ago repubs were saying Karl Frigging Rove wasn't a "real conservative"....seriously

I don't kindly to people who represent themselves AS something they are not.
anyone can say they are Republican, and that letter reeked OF what I have read from the left.

What's YOUR definition of a 'True Republican', Stephanie?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Dear Speaker Boehner,

As a Republican, I have followed your handling of the debt ceiling negotiations, and the future of the federal budget, with mounting concern. You appear to be engaged in a game of partisan brinksmanship with our nation’s financial future. Now is not the time for scoring political points or playing to the fantasies of the anti-government libertarian zealots within our Party.

Your handling of the debt ceiling negotiations, and the prior budget proposals advanced in Representative Paul Ryan’s “Path to Prosperity,” makes it clear that the GOP is more concerned with protecting the interests of America’s most wealthy citizens, even to the detriment of the rest of us, and to the common good. For example, it is farcical to frame the debt and the deficit as merely problems of spending — they are, in fact, issues created by both expenditures and revenues. Nor is taking an axe to the federal government an acceptable solution — traditionally, we conservatives have been in favor of a limited government, not an eviscerated one. In the end, we simply have to pay for the services we expect government to provide. As such, a discussion of raising additional revenue — taxes — must be a part of any long-term solution.

Read more of his letter here:

Dear Speaker Boehner: An open letter on the debt and the budget | Coffee Party

Today--there are 18,000 baby-boomers entering social security/medicare daily and this will continue for the next 15 years--resulting in another 64 trillion in unfunded liabilites--on top of the 14.3 trillion in red ink we're at now. This results in $534,000.00 per household federal government debt--to pay this tab.

There simply is not enough WEALTH--including your weekly paycheck--to pay this bill.

Currently the Federal Government is borrowing .46 cents on every dollar it spends. The Federal government is now wanting to raise their credit card limit so they can borrow and spend more.

View attachment 14300

1 billion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets.

View attachment 14301

1 trillion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets.--NOTE: How small the man is in this chart.

Now--if you can tell me how and whom we're going to tax to come up with 79 of the above trillion dollar chart--please let us all know---

Who the fuck said ONLY look at the revenue side?

 

[MaggieMae]

Need some help moving those goalposts?

Look, when you own and operate a business, your opinion might be worth something. I'll continue listening to those who are familiar with the problems. You keep listening to people who don't own businesses.

That's a pretty presumptuous statement. And you know that how?

Here's the problem, in a nutshell.

TIME: Fareed Zakaria

"Conservatism is true." That's what George Will told me when I interviewed him as an eager student many years ago. His formulation might have been a touch arrogant, but Will's basic point was intelligent. Conservatism, he explained, was rooted in reality. Unlike the abstract theories of Marxism and socialism, it started not from an imagined society but from the world as it actually exists. From Aristotle to Edmund Burke, the greatest conservative thinkers have said that to change societies, one must understand them, accept them as they are and help them evolve.

Watching this election campaign, one wonders what has happened to that tradition. Conservatives now espouse ideas drawn from abstract principles with little regard to the realities of America's present or past. This is a tragedy, because conservatism has an important role to play in modernizing the U.S.

Consider the debates over the economy. The Republican prescription is to cut taxes and slash government spending — then things will bounce back. Now, I would like to see lower rates in the context of tax simplification and reform, but what is the evidence that tax cuts are the best path to revive the U.S. economy? Taxes — federal and state combined — as a percentage of GDP are at their lowest level since 1950. The U.S. is among the lowest taxed of the big industrial economies. So the case that America is grinding to a halt because of high taxation is not based on facts but is simply a theoretical assertion. The rich countries that are in the best shape right now, with strong growth and low unemployment, are ones like Germany and Denmark, neither one characterized by low taxes.

Many Republican businessmen have told me that the Obama Administration is the most hostile to business in 50 years. Really? More than that of Richard Nixon, who presided over tax rates that reached 70%, regulations that spanned whole industries, and who actually instituted price and wage controls?

In fact, right now any discussion of government involvement in the economy — even to build vital infrastructure — is impossible because it is a cardinal tenet of the new conservatism that such involvement is always and forever bad. Meanwhile, across the globe, the world's fastest-growing economy, China, has managed to use government involvement to create growth and jobs for three decades. From Singapore to South Korea to Germany to Canada, evidence abounds that some strategic actions by the government can act as catalysts for free-market growth.

Bullshit article is bullshit.

Okay, saying Obama's the most hostile Administration to business in 50 years is nonsense -- most business owners today didn't own their businesses during the Nixon Admin.

Yet they own businesses now, and are trying to operate in the climate that the Obama Admin is influencing. And they're saying this Admin isn't business friendly.

And yet some screwed us not once but twice:

Companies Delinquent on Unpaid Corporate Income Tax - AARP Bulletin

At least 3,700 businesses that received government contracts or grants under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 are delinquent on a whopping $750 million-plus in unpaid corporate income tax, payroll taxes, and excise and unemployment taxes, according to a report from the Government Accountability Office.

And that figure is probably an underestimate, since the report doesn't take into account businesses that failed to submit tax returns altogether.

The companies that federal investigators are calling out collected a combined $24 billion for everything from construction to security work.

The kicker: Federal agencies could not have done much to prevent delinquent companies from securing the contracts. That's because federal law does not require them to be current on tax bills in order to do business with the government.

 

[MaggieMae]

I am saying that the ones who do the most complaining are the ones who don't give a shit about how they make their money. If it means screwing the working middle class, so be it. Heaven Forbid they should "sacrifice" any of those precious profits by way of taxes on those profits. Heaven Forbid they should take a risk and use some of those windfall profits to expand and hire so that people will be able to afford their products.

Not only did you drink the Kool-Aide, you farking drowned in it.

Never mind. I wouldn't dream of expecting you to ever criticize Obama. You might burst into flames.

I've criticized him a LOT for things deserving criticism. Sorry you missed those. Speaking of Kool-Aid, your color is obviously RED, hypocrite. Tough shit that half the country still supports Obama, not just me. Deal with it.

 

[MaggieMae]

He's actually taking the position of a SANE Republican. You know, those folks who at one time were, in fact, "compassionate" conservatives, while maintaining their fiscal conservative ideologies.

He is being a dishonest sleazy hack parroting demo talking points by rote.

I can get along with a democrat who is frank and honest about our differences of opinion. You have your priorities, theories of taxation and the importance of maintaining a certain level of debt and I have mine. We can argue them out in an adult manner any time you feel in the mood.

But this business of some coyote in sheep's clothing mouthing.... "I am a true republican" (that phrase right there makes me want to start counting the silverware) " but I think we should trample on principle and swallow the Democrat's codswallop, because after all they are right" does not inspire me to anything except anger at folks who would peddle such organic fertilizer as true metal.

Seriously?

You LIKE the current status quo?

You think the current tax code is fair?

I'll respect your right to believe it if that's how you feel, Bro' but Seriously?

People need to listen to this man, the only one with any true common sense in Washington. Too bad he's not interested in running for president, nor even another Senate term. If you can't listen to the entire 40 minutes, just listen to his opening salvos before the phone calls start coming in. But the whole thing is EDUCATIONAL!

Senator Coburn on Budget and Debt Plans - C-SPAN Video Library

 

[daveman]

That's a pretty presumptuous statement. And you know that how?

Here's the problem, in a nutshell.

TIME: Fareed Zakaria

Bullshit article is bullshit.

Okay, saying Obama's the most hostile Administration to business in 50 years is nonsense -- most business owners today didn't own their businesses during the Nixon Admin.

Yet they own businesses now, and are trying to operate in the climate that the Obama Admin is influencing. And they're saying this Admin isn't business friendly.

And yet some screwed us not once but twice:

Companies Delinquent on Unpaid Corporate Income Tax - AARP Bulletin

At least 3,700 businesses that received government contracts or grants under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 are delinquent on a whopping $750 million-plus in unpaid corporate income tax, payroll taxes, and excise and unemployment taxes, according to a report from the Government Accountability Office.

And that figure is probably an underestimate, since the report doesn't take into account businesses that failed to submit tax returns altogether.

The companies that federal investigators are calling out collected a combined $24 billion for everything from construction to security work.

The kicker: Federal agencies could not have done much to prevent delinquent companies from securing the contracts. That's because federal law does not require them to be current on tax bills in order to do business with the government.

Instead of hosing money around like T-shirts at a concert, perhaps Obama should have done something about Federal contracting laws, huh? Or was that not a shovel-ready project?

Oh, and the biggest company Obama's in bed with has made record profits, yet has paid not a cent in taxes.

It's good to be buddies with the Boi King.

 

[daveman]

I am saying that the ones who do the most complaining are the ones who don't give a shit about how they make their money. If it means screwing the working middle class, so be it. Heaven Forbid they should "sacrifice" any of those precious profits by way of taxes on those profits. Heaven Forbid they should take a risk and use some of those windfall profits to expand and hire so that people will be able to afford their products.

Not only did you drink the Kool-Aide, you farking drowned in it.

Never mind. I wouldn't dream of expecting you to ever criticize Obama. You might burst into flames.

I've criticized him a LOT for things deserving criticism. Sorry you missed those. Speaking of Kool-Aid, your color is obviously RED, hypocrite.

Hypocrite? Me? Do you have anything to back that up, or is this just more knee-jerk lashing out?

Tough shit that half the country still supports Obama, not just me. Deal with it.

Half? Not according to the polls.

 

[MaggieMae]

Bullshit article is bullshit.

Okay, saying Obama's the most hostile Administration to business in 50 years is nonsense -- most business owners today didn't own their businesses during the Nixon Admin.

Yet they own businesses now, and are trying to operate in the climate that the Obama Admin is influencing. And they're saying this Admin isn't business friendly.

And yet some screwed us not once but twice:

Companies Delinquent on Unpaid Corporate Income Tax - AARP Bulletin

At least 3,700 businesses that received government contracts or grants under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 are delinquent on a whopping $750 million-plus in unpaid corporate income tax, payroll taxes, and excise and unemployment taxes, according to a report from the Government Accountability Office.

And that figure is probably an underestimate, since the report doesn't take into account businesses that failed to submit tax returns altogether.

The companies that federal investigators are calling out collected a combined $24 billion for everything from construction to security work.

The kicker: Federal agencies could not have done much to prevent delinquent companies from securing the contracts. That's because federal law does not require them to be current on tax bills in order to do business with the government.

Instead of hosing money around like T-shirts at a concert, perhaps Obama should have done something about Federal contracting laws, huh? Or was that not a shovel-ready project?

Oh, and the biggest company Obama's in bed with has made record profits, yet has paid not a cent in taxes.

It's good to be buddies with the Boi King.

So GE is the only one? Don't think so...

 

[daveman]

And yet some screwed us not once but twice:

Companies Delinquent on Unpaid Corporate Income Tax - AARP Bulletin

Instead of hosing money around like T-shirts at a concert, perhaps Obama should have done something about Federal contracting laws, huh? Or was that not a shovel-ready project?

Oh, and the biggest company Obama's in bed with has made record profits, yet has paid not a cent in taxes.

It's good to be buddies with the Boi King.

So GE is the only one? Don't think so...

No, but the "tax the rich!!" leftists always seem to overlook GE, since they're BFFs with the Boi King.

 

[Nic_Driver]

Instead of hosing money around like T-shirts at a concert, perhaps Obama should have done something about Federal contracting laws, huh? Or was that not a shovel-ready project?

Oh, and the biggest company Obama's in bed with has made record profits, yet has paid not a cent in taxes.

It's good to be buddies with the Boi King.

So GE is the only one? Don't think so...

No, but the "tax the rich!!" leftists always seem to overlook GE, since they're BFFs with the Boi King.

Really? Which party is trying to end the loopholes that allowed GE's tax liability to be so low?







Which one is not?

 

[daveman]

So GE is the only one? Don't think so...

No, but the "tax the rich!!" leftists always seem to overlook GE, since they're BFFs with the Boi King.

Really? Which party is trying to end the loopholes that allowed GE's tax liability to be so low?







Which one is not?

And yet you want to blame the Republicans, while giving Obama a free pass for accepting all their eeeevil KKKorporate money.

 

[Rinata]

You say "It's rather a given, at this point.", then complain that I don't offer specifics?

Here's some specifics, from the people who would know -- business owners:

In recent months, however, that relationship has begun to fray. First, Democrats included a provision in the health-care bill -- over the Roundtable's objection -- that reduced corporate subsidies for drug coverage to retirees, a move that could cost big companies millions of dollars. Then the EPA unveiled rules to regulate greenhouse-gas emissions even without climate-change legislation, creating uncertainty about the future cost of energy.

The final straw, said Roundtable president John Castellani, was the introduction of two pieces of legislation, now pending in Congress, that the group views as particularly bad for business. One, a provision of the administration's financial regulation overhaul, would make it easier for shareholders to nominate corporate board members. The other would raise taxes on multinational corporations. The rhetoric accompanying the tax proposals has been particularly harsh, Castellani said, with Democrats vowing to campaign in this fall's midterm elections on a platform of punishing companies that move jobs overseas.​

So I guess conservatives would prefer that Medicare Advantage continue to be subsidized out of the general Medicare fund because those insurers cover things Medicare doesn't, such as hearing aids and eyeglasses, which every person over 65 will need one or the other by then. It's the reason those items were never included in Medicare coverage in the first place. A no-brainer, because Medicare would have been bankrupt in the first five years.

So I guess conservatives would prefer that the financial institutions continue to play Russian Roulette with other people's money. (Sorry, we just don't have the money you put in and don't know when we will. Funny that the credit card companies don't buy that excuse for individuals.)

So I guess conservatives would prefer that "Buy American" is a lost cause and that it's fine and dandy that tradition is gone with the wind, as well as America seeing any financial benefit at all by way of taxing those companies. So be it. This is NOT the American way that I grew up with. It is NOT an attitude that has made America the greatest leader in the world and why governments of other countries who wish to succeed try to emulate us. It IS the attitude that has made the populations of other allied nations scoff at our greed and intense need to prove that material stuff is what's most important to well-being and all the pushing and shoving that goes along with it is far more important. Animals do that because that's all they know. People should know better.

Need some help moving those goalposts?

Look, when you own and operate a business, your opinion might be worth something. I'll continue listening to those who are familiar with the problems. You keep listening to people who don't own businesses.

So what??? You don't have to be a chicken to recognize an egg, Dave.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And yet some screwed us not once but twice:

Companies Delinquent on Unpaid Corporate Income Tax - AARP Bulletin

Instead of hosing money around like T-shirts at a concert, perhaps Obama should have done something about Federal contracting laws, huh? Or was that not a shovel-ready project?

Oh, and the biggest company Obama's in bed with has made record profits, yet has paid not a cent in taxes.

It's good to be buddies with the Boi King.

So GE is the only one? Don't think so...

No, but the "tax the rich!!" leftists always seem to overlook GE, since they're BFFs with the Boi King.

Really? Which party is trying to end the loopholes that allowed GE's tax liability to be so low?







Which one is not?

And yet you want to blame the Republicans, while giving Obama a free pass for accepting all their eeeevil KKKorporate money.

Have you guys ever considered that maybe you're BOTH correct?

The blame for the mess our government is in can be squarely laid at the feet of the Republicans AND the Democrats and they're opposing desire to 'win' at the game of politics no matter what the cost to our children. Washington is NOT a gridiron with goal posts on the left and the right - it's where We, The People plan for our collective future.

It's time to look for true liberals and true fiscal conservatives among both parties and throw the rest of the squallering babies out with the partisan political bath-water.

Fair Taxes. Appropriate Regulation. Budget Balanced by Law.

This shouldn't have to be rocket science, folks.

 

[daveman]

So I guess conservatives would prefer that Medicare Advantage continue to be subsidized out of the general Medicare fund because those insurers cover things Medicare doesn't, such as hearing aids and eyeglasses, which every person over 65 will need one or the other by then. It's the reason those items were never included in Medicare coverage in the first place. A no-brainer, because Medicare would have been bankrupt in the first five years.

So I guess conservatives would prefer that the financial institutions continue to play Russian Roulette with other people's money. (Sorry, we just don't have the money you put in and don't know when we will. Funny that the credit card companies don't buy that excuse for individuals.)

So I guess conservatives would prefer that "Buy American" is a lost cause and that it's fine and dandy that tradition is gone with the wind, as well as America seeing any financial benefit at all by way of taxing those companies. So be it. This is NOT the American way that I grew up with. It is NOT an attitude that has made America the greatest leader in the world and why governments of other countries who wish to succeed try to emulate us. It IS the attitude that has made the populations of other allied nations scoff at our greed and intense need to prove that material stuff is what's most important to well-being and all the pushing and shoving that goes along with it is far more important. Animals do that because that's all they know. People should know better.

Need some help moving those goalposts?

Look, when you own and operate a business, your opinion might be worth something. I'll continue listening to those who are familiar with the problems. You keep listening to people who don't own businesses.

So what??? You don't have to be a chicken to recognize an egg, Dave.

Sure. You just keep believing Obama -- who has exactly zero business experience -- tell you the business climate is just peachy, and ignore the business owners -- who have business experience -- who have legitimate complaints.

Obama says it, you believe it, that settles it. You're as closed-minded as any fundamentalist.

 

[MaggieMae]

Instead of hosing money around like T-shirts at a concert, perhaps Obama should have done something about Federal contracting laws, huh? Or was that not a shovel-ready project?

Oh, and the biggest company Obama's in bed with has made record profits, yet has paid not a cent in taxes.

It's good to be buddies with the Boi King.

So GE is the only one? Don't think so...

No, but the "tax the rich!!" leftists always seem to overlook GE, since they're BFFs with the Boi King.

It was hard to "overlook" it because it made all the headlines. I don't condone GE doing it any more than I condone the big oil companies manipulating their profits in order to avoid taxes.

I wish you'd stop just assuming you already know my opinions on everything, which is your biggest problem and why it's impossible to have a sane conversation with you.

 

[MaggieMae]

No, but the "tax the rich!!" leftists always seem to overlook GE, since they're BFFs with the Boi King.

Really? Which party is trying to end the loopholes that allowed GE's tax liability to be so low?







Which one is not?

And yet you want to blame the Republicans, while giving Obama a free pass for accepting all their eeeevil KKKorporate money.

Oh please...big corporations will ALWAYS donate more to the party in power. Why on earth would they donate to losers? THINK!!

But since you seem to think GE only sucks up to Obama, this will prove you wrong in any event:

General Electric: All Recipients | OpenSecrets

 

[MaggieMae]

Need some help moving those goalposts?

Look, when you own and operate a business, your opinion might be worth something. I'll continue listening to those who are familiar with the problems. You keep listening to people who don't own businesses.

So what??? You don't have to be a chicken to recognize an egg, Dave.

Sure. You just keep believing Obama -- who has exactly zero business experience -- tell you the business climate is just peachy, and ignore the business owners -- who have business experience -- who have legitimate complaints.

Obama says it, you believe it, that settles it. You're as closed-minded as any fundamentalist.

Gee, all those investment bankers who nearly took down the global economy had "business experience" coming out their collective asses. Your point is dumb.