American Jews and liberalism

[jillian]

I want to peruse replies but here's a personal take. Full disclosure, our children are Jewish by tradition, but were raised Catholic as those times were tough on people of Jewish descent and my wife's family (grandparents) decided the change.

Jewish people, like Catholics, are educated and I think genuinely educated people see the complexity that life is and thus tend to be tolerant and more left leaning than right. A Rabbi writing about the Holocaust influenced the way I see the world when I was young, and until recently I did not know conservative Jews even existed. My first experience with more conservative Jews were Russian immigrants, they tend to see the world in black and white. They remind me of fundamentalist Christians, even when their religion is not strong.

Jews were left out of American business for fear they would take control, you should know that myth by now. Yes, that conspiratorial nonsense still exists today. It is a strain that runs through the thoughts of those who require simple solutions. Even Obama suffers it for being Black. Paradoxical though it may seem people always see conspiracy or unfair advantage except where it really is. One of the Jewish managers I worked with years ago told me he was only Jew in the corporation. An exaggeration but oddly like Blacks, it contained a morsel of truth. But dislike of people who were different in any way was a powerful motivator in those days. Darn gotta drop.

Anyone ever see or read "Focus?"

Just to add to your comments, my dad was the first jew in management in a particular major corporation. he tells a story about how he was one of the employees honored at a dinner. The entertainment was a comic named Jack Carter. The employees had name tags, and when Jack Carter (from the stage) noticed my dad's tag with it's obviously jewish last name, he said "[insert jewish last name], what the hell are *you* doing here"?

You're right about Russian immigrants, though. I think they come from a culture where they only respect heavy-handed power plays. it's why they love Putin.

ultimately, any view of the world that is simplistic is incorrect. there is very little that is purely black and white.

 

[Ravi]

Don't you assholes ever get tired of making Jew bashing threads?

 

[editec]

Well, this is my first real post here and I thought I'd start off with something that's been on my mind lately. First, I am not really Jewish, but close. All of my mother's family going way back are Jewish but I was not raised as such. While I was snipped (!), no bar mitzvah, not really a Jew. Secondly, I am a decidedly limited government kind of guy. I'm a strong believer in that government which governs best governs least. Call it Libertarianism if you like, I reject big government from Conservatives and Liberals alike.

What's on my mind is why so many Jewish Americans lean so heavily Left. Why do they seem to always vote Democrat? This question bugs me not just because of President Obama's recent comments about Israel's borders. The Democratic party and American Liberals in general seem to me to be the most fervent opposition to all things Israeli. For that reason alone, I don't understand why Jews give them undying support.

Perhaps more importantly are the lessons apparently not learned from Nazi Germany. My great, great grandmother escaped Southern Germany before the Nazi's came to power, but for those that didn't, they experienced the worst kind tyrannous government. Whether you call the Nazi's National Socialists or Fascists, they certainly represented a top-down style of governance. Given the results of that big government experiment, I'm continually flabbergasted by American Jews support of ever bigger government. You'd think Jews today would be the most staunch limited government supporters out there but just the opposite is true.

So, any Jews that can enlighten me as to why the community supports big government and the Liberal Democrats that seem to despise Israel?

I think the basic premise of your complaint is invalid.

And I believe that you negate your credibility when you single out Jews and DEMS as being at the root problem, too.

That makes me call into question whether or not you really do:

... reject big government from Conservatives and Liberals alike.

Your post reads to me like you don't really reject Republican big government, only Democratic big government.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Today's Liberal American Jews are Uncle Toms. They continue to support a political party controlled by hateful Anti-Semitic Leftists who side with the Palestinians at every turn. Liberal American Jews should be ashamed of themselves. They're helping in throwing Israel under the bus.

Your worst post I've ever seen you make on this board, what an embarrassing insult to place on people solely because you disagree with them.


Reality is, Libo this is another issue that Dems and Reps (the politicians) have the exact same stance on.

1.) Tax americans more in order to throw money at Israel.
2.) Use rhetoric to butt into their business, but not really do anything.
3.) Don't take their sovereignty seriously and act like big brother.

So if dems and reps say different stuff in front of podiums (which they don't even do that, Obama just said the same thing Bush said in '07) that will mean nothing to me until they start DOING different stuff.

 

[The Rabbi]

jews fought for civil rights for blacks. we find the southern strategy an offense.
jews are pro-choice. (if they weren't, their wives would kill them).
jews know that the more moderate society, the better for jews since jews don't do well in extreme societies... right or left.
jews have been subject to discrimination and vote against policies that smack of discrimination and racism...
jews believe in education...
jews believe in taking care of the poor and sick.

not exactly a big leap.

the only reason any jew is a neocon is israel...

Idiot Jews are liberals because they have a collective death wish. They support affirmative action even though it means less qualified blacks are taking places that would otherwise go to their more qualified sons and daughters.
They support gun control even though Jews have been the targets of low lifes and hoodlums for 3000 years.
They support big government even though big governments in Germany, Russia, and the Soviet Union persecuted them mercilessly.
They support high taxes even though they struggle to make a living for their family.
They support the Left even though the Left is filled with anti-semites.
They support repressing religion even though religion is the only thing that makes them Jewish, while secularism results in assimilation and death.

A person is a Jew whose mother is a Jew. This is a simple definition.

that's what you gleaned from your years of talmudic "study"?

"To save one person is to save the world".

THAT is why Jews are liberal. And someone making up what he wants to pretend others believe isn't exactly the person who should be answering the question in the o/p. You also might want to go back and study. They may have called their party the national socialists, but they weren't socialist. they were rightwing fascists.

No matter how much you make things up in your head.

Any study of history proves that Jews are only safe in moderate societies. Too far right (Germany) or too far left (Stalin's Russia) results creates violent and unsafe conditions for Jews.

Could actually pick a Talmud off the shelf as opposed to a copy of Divrei Yoel? I doubt it.
Jews engage in a variety of chessed projects. You've doubtless never written a check to a bikur cholim or gemach so you are surely unaware of it.
The U.S. gov't is not a chessed project. Whatever "charitable" work it does is done in the most ineffecient manner and usually with resulting loss of dignity to the recipient, as well as frequently being counter-productive.
Jews were not safe in pre-war France or Poland, which were moderate societies of their time. They were safe in monarchist Spain in the 15th century, The later Ottoman Empire, under the Seleucids, and in Imperial Germany.
Your ignorance of Judaism is as great as your ignorance of everything else, "counselor."

 

[The Rabbi]

Today's Liberal American Jews are Uncle Toms. They continue to support a political party controlled by hateful Anti-Semitic Leftists who side with the Palestinians at every turn. Liberal American Jews should be ashamed of themselves. They're helping in throwing Israel under the bus.

Your worst post I've ever seen you make on this board, what an embarrassing insult to place on people solely because you disagree with them.


Reality is, Libo this is another issue that Dems and Reps (the politicians) have the exact same stance on.

1.) Tax americans more in order to throw money at Israel.
2.) Use rhetoric to butt into their business, but not really do anything.
3.) Don't take their sovereignty seriously and act like big brother.

So if dems and reps say different stuff in front of podiums (which they don't even do that, Obama just said the same thing Bush said in '07) that will mean nothing to me until they start DOING different stuff.

Who advocates raising taxes to send more money to Israel? Oh yeah, the Dems.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Today's Liberal American Jews are Uncle Toms. They continue to support a political party controlled by hateful Anti-Semitic Leftists who side with the Palestinians at every turn. Liberal American Jews should be ashamed of themselves. They're helping in throwing Israel under the bus.

Your worst post I've ever seen you make on this board, what an embarrassing insult to place on people solely because you disagree with them.


Reality is, Libo this is another issue that Dems and Reps (the politicians) have the exact same stance on.

1.) Tax americans more in order to throw money at Israel.
2.) Use rhetoric to butt into their business, but not really do anything.
3.) Don't take their sovereignty seriously and act like big brother.

So if dems and reps say different stuff in front of podiums (which they don't even do that, Obama just said the same thing Bush said in '07) that will mean nothing to me until they start DOING different stuff.

Who advocates raising taxes to send more money to Israel? Oh yeah, the Dems.

Yes, as well as republicans.

 

[Jroc]

I want to peruse replies but here's a personal take. Full disclosure, our children are Jewish by tradition, but were raised Catholic as those times were tough on people of Jewish descent and my wife's family (grandparents) decided the change.

Jewish people, like Catholics, are educated and I think genuinely educated people see the complexity that life is and thus tend to be tolerant and more left leaning than right. A Rabbi writing about the Holocaust influenced the way I see the world when I was young, and until recently I did not know conservative Jews even existed. My first experience with more conservative Jews were Russian immigrants, they tend to see the world in black and white. They remind me of fundamentalist Christians, even when their religion is not strong.

Jews were left out of American business for fear they would take control, you should know that myth by now. Yes, that conspiratorial nonsense still exists today. It is a strain that runs through the thoughts of those who require simple solutions. Even Obama suffers it for being Black. Paradoxical though it may seem people always see conspiracy or unfair advantage except where it really is. One of the Jewish managers I worked with years ago told me he was only Jew in the corporation. An exaggeration but oddly like Blacks, it contained a morsel of truth. But dislike of people who were different in any way was a powerful motivator in those days. Darn gotta drop.

Anyone ever see or read "Focus?"

Just to add to your comments, my dad was the first jew in management in a particular major corporation. he tells a story about how he was one of the employees honored at a dinner. The entertainment was a comic named Jack Carter. The employees had name tags, and when Jack Carter (from the stage) noticed my dad's tag with it's obviously jewish last name, he said "[insert jewish last name], what the hell are *you* doing here"?

You're right about Russian immigrants, though. I think they come from a culture where they only respect heavy-handed power plays. it's why they love Putin.

ultimately, any view of the world that is simplistic is incorrect. there is very little that is purely black and white.

Just like I said Jews are liberal because they always have been leftist much to their detriment, every group at one time or the other have been discriminated against in this country Irish, Italian ect..Doesn’t mean you get stuck in the past, but it seems Jews are that, stuck in the past, the left is anti-Jewish that is a fact, even left wing Blacks which makes no sense to me. Jews prospered in spite of big government left wing policies.. To tell you the truth me having grown up poor, no father have had more of feeling of discrimination from other Jews, upper middle class, left wing Jews, than anybody else. My mother will tell you that herself, she still doesn't really feel comfortable around her own people because of that And I'm sad about that. I don't want to here anything about how tolerant liberals are because it's a bunch of BS

 

[iggy pop]

Israel is the size of New Jersey, but Obama has decided that is too big. He has decided Israel will be the size of Delaware. Obama is too stupid to figure out that Israel is one of our few allies in the Middle East and these Muslims hate Americans as much as they hate Jews. Nice job Obama!!!

Why are we even dicking around with Israels territory? It's land they took when THEY were attacked to secure their borders. How they protect their interests is not our call.

 

[GHook93]

Which begs the question?

When conservatives keep braying they want a "Constitutional Government"...have they even read the damn thing?

Yep many times! Next question.

What people don't realize is that with constitutional law its just as important (if not more important) to know case law as it is to know the constitution. For example, libertarians love to tout that they follow the consitution literally and that the constitution expressly protects the right to privacy our, most fundamental right (which is their prime argument to get rid of the Patriot Act). However, the right to privacy isn't in the constitution! Without case law interpretations, we WOULDN'T HAVE IT! In Griswold, which was a Planned Parenthood case on contraceptives, the a right to privacy was established, by the reasoning it's within the prenumbras (shadows) of the bill of rights. Roe v. Wade further strengthen the right to privacy (in the abortion arena). Interesting both involved reproduction rights.

Miranda Rights aren't in the constitution, they are the norm given by Miranda v. AZ!

Take the "I gotta ya tactic" the left used on O'Donnell in the Separation of Church and State. She said it wasn't in the constitution and the left mocked her! Yet she was RIGHT! The Separation of Church and State, which is a norm and pretty much undisputed principle of this country, was NOT established until the 1940s or 50s (can't remember which) in the Emerson case. This is where Separation of Church and State came about. It case law that created it!

 

[Dr.Drock]

Israel is the size of New Jersey, but Obama has decided that is too big. He has decided Israel will be the size of Delaware. Obama is too stupid to figure out that Israel is one of our few allies in the Middle East and these Muslims hate Americans as much as they hate Jews. Nice job Obama!!!

Why are we even dicking around with Israels territory? It's land they took when THEY were attacked to secure their borders. How they protect their interests is not our call.

We're not, it's empty rhetoric from a man with a history of empty rhetoric, so I have no idea why people are hyperventilating.


He's giving them $30 billion of our tax dollars which will be used on resources they need to expand their territory, so you can either go by what pundits are interpretting he meant when he was behind a podium, or you can go by actual facts/budgets.

 

[WillowTree]

Victims---Liberals love victims.

That didn't make sense, Jews were the victims. Liberals seem to hate Jews and Israel.

 

[GHook93]

It is a myth, the Nazi's were big tyranical government Socialist.

.

Nazis were tyrannical but they killed socialists. In reality, Nazis were corporatists and theocrats. And while the Nazis maybe gone..the church they supported as well as many of the companies they colluded with..still exist.

Nazi stands for National SOCIALIST Workers Party. They slaughter certain group of socialist, the communist socialist. But get your facts straight. The Nazi were atheist socialist (very similar to the Communist Socialist in the USSR). They slaughtered the communist to run with evil Jew concept! It had little to do with slaughtering fellow socialist, rather had to do with Jew hating (something you are all to familiar with)!

 

[jillian]

I want to peruse replies but here's a personal take. Full disclosure, our children are Jewish by tradition, but were raised Catholic as those times were tough on people of Jewish descent and my wife's family (grandparents) decided the change.

Jewish people, like Catholics, are educated and I think genuinely educated people see the complexity that life is and thus tend to be tolerant and more left leaning than right. A Rabbi writing about the Holocaust influenced the way I see the world when I was young, and until recently I did not know conservative Jews even existed. My first experience with more conservative Jews were Russian immigrants, they tend to see the world in black and white. They remind me of fundamentalist Christians, even when their religion is not strong.

Jews were left out of American business for fear they would take control, you should know that myth by now. Yes, that conspiratorial nonsense still exists today. It is a strain that runs through the thoughts of those who require simple solutions. Even Obama suffers it for being Black. Paradoxical though it may seem people always see conspiracy or unfair advantage except where it really is. One of the Jewish managers I worked with years ago told me he was only Jew in the corporation. An exaggeration but oddly like Blacks, it contained a morsel of truth. But dislike of people who were different in any way was a powerful motivator in those days. Darn gotta drop.

Anyone ever see or read "Focus?"

Just to add to your comments, my dad was the first jew in management in a particular major corporation. he tells a story about how he was one of the employees honored at a dinner. The entertainment was a comic named Jack Carter. The employees had name tags, and when Jack Carter (from the stage) noticed my dad's tag with it's obviously jewish last name, he said "[insert jewish last name], what the hell are *you* doing here"?

You're right about Russian immigrants, though. I think they come from a culture where they only respect heavy-handed power plays. it's why they love Putin.

ultimately, any view of the world that is simplistic is incorrect. there is very little that is purely black and white.

Just like I said Jews are liberal because they always have been leftist much to their detriment, every group at one time or the other have been discriminated against in this country Irish, Italian ect..Doesn’t mean you get stuck in the past, but it seems Jews are that, stuck in the past, the left is anti-Jewish that is a fact, even left wing Blacks which makes no sense to me. Jews prospered in spite of big government left wing policies.. To tell you the truth me having grown up poor, no father have had more of feeling of discrimination from other Jews, upper middle class, left wing Jews, than anybody else. My mother will tell you that herself, she still doesn't really feel comfortable around her own people because of that And I'm sad about that. I don't want to here anything about how tolerant liberals are because it's a bunch of BS

every time jews have been attacked it has been by right wing extremists (spanish inquisition, nazis) or left wing extremists (communists). you are living in a fantasy world if you think rightwingnut extremists will do anything for jews.

saying jews are leftist is simply narrow-minded and silly. the only reason we thrive here is because it is a society established by liberals to provide for freedom of religion. you think your kids would be taught talmud in public school if the religious right were in power?

and before you decide the "left" is anti-jewish, look at the paulites... look at the birchers... look at the kkk'ers.

i'm sorry your mother's experience was a bad one. but you're simply wrong on this one, brother. it's moderation you want... not rightwing or leftwing extremists.

 

[The Rabbi]

Your worst post I've ever seen you make on this board, what an embarrassing insult to place on people solely because you disagree with them.


Reality is, Libo this is another issue that Dems and Reps (the politicians) have the exact same stance on.

1.) Tax americans more in order to throw money at Israel.
2.) Use rhetoric to butt into their business, but not really do anything.
3.) Don't take their sovereignty seriously and act like big brother.

So if dems and reps say different stuff in front of podiums (which they don't even do that, Obama just said the same thing Bush said in '07) that will mean nothing to me until they start DOING different stuff.

Who advocates raising taxes to send more money to Israel? Oh yeah, the Dems.

Yes, as well as republicans.

Which Republican advocates raising taxes? I want names.

 

[The Rabbi]

Israel is the size of New Jersey, but Obama has decided that is too big. He has decided Israel will be the size of Delaware. Obama is too stupid to figure out that Israel is one of our few allies in the Middle East and these Muslims hate Americans as much as they hate Jews. Nice job Obama!!!

Why are we even dicking around with Israels territory? It's land they took when THEY were attacked to secure their borders. How they protect their interests is not our call.

We're not, it's empty rhetoric from a man with a history of empthy rhetoric, so I have no idea why people are hyperventilating.


He's giving them $30 billion of our tax dollars which will be used on resources they need to expand their territory, so you can either go by what pundits are interpretting he meant when he was behind a podium, or you can go by actual facts/budgets.

$30B? Really? You have a source for this assertion? I mean other that Stormfront.com

 

[The Rabbi]

Just to add to your comments, my dad was the first jew in management in a particular major corporation. he tells a story about how he was one of the employees honored at a dinner. The entertainment was a comic named Jack Carter. The employees had name tags, and when Jack Carter (from the stage) noticed my dad's tag with it's obviously jewish last name, he said "[insert jewish last name], what the hell are *you* doing here"?

You're right about Russian immigrants, though. I think they come from a culture where they only respect heavy-handed power plays. it's why they love Putin.

ultimately, any view of the world that is simplistic is incorrect. there is very little that is purely black and white.

Just like I said Jews are liberal because they always have been leftist much to their detriment, every group at one time or the other have been discriminated against in this country Irish, Italian ect..Doesn’t mean you get stuck in the past, but it seems Jews are that, stuck in the past, the left is anti-Jewish that is a fact, even left wing Blacks which makes no sense to me. Jews prospered in spite of big government left wing policies.. To tell you the truth me having grown up poor, no father have had more of feeling of discrimination from other Jews, upper middle class, left wing Jews, than anybody else. My mother will tell you that herself, she still doesn't really feel comfortable around her own people because of that And I'm sad about that. I don't want to here anything about how tolerant liberals are because it's a bunch of BS

every time jews have been attacked it has been by right wing extremists (spanish inquisition, nazis) or left wing extremists (communists). you are living in a fantasy world if you think rightwingnut extremists will do anything for jews.

saying jews are leftist is simply narrow-minded and silly. the only reason we thrive here is because it is a society established by liberals to provide for freedom of religion. you think your kids would be taught talmud in public school if the religious right were in power?

and before you decide the "left" is anti-jewish, look at the paulites... look at the birchers... look at the kkk'ers.

i'm sorry your mother's experience was a bad one. but you're simply wrong on this one, brother. it's moderation you want... not rightwing or leftwing extremists.

You honestly cannot tell the difference between the GOP and the Spanish Inquisition, the KKK, Nazis or Communists??? :crazy
The Left is the traditional grounds for anti-semitism. Look at German universities prior to the Nazis and British universities today, as well as traditional Left groups now which are flacking for the Palis.

 

[The Rabbi]

Victims---Liberals love victims.

That didn't make sense, Jews were the victims. Liberals seem to hate Jews and Israel.

Jews were the victims up until about 1982 and the Lebanon invasion. After that the Palis manipulated the media and made themselves the victims.

 

[eflatminor]

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

AH! Got it...you're saying that if a group of people try to break into a jail to lynch someone (the original point you made), it's perfectly acceptable for Congress to unleash troops on them? THAT'S an insurrection in your mind? I suppose you also think what happened in Waco was constitutional.

Typical lefty insanity.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

So, any Jews that can enlighten me as to why the community supports big government and the Liberal Democrats that seem to despise Israel?

jews fought for civil rights for blacks. we find the southern strategy an offense.
jews are pro-choice. (if they weren't, their wives would kill them).
jews know that the more moderate society, the better for jews since jews don't do well in extreme societies... right or left.
jews have been subject to discrimination and vote against policies that smack of discrimination and racism...
jews believe in education...
jews believe in taking care of the poor and sick.

not exactly a big leap.

the only reason any jew is a neocon is israel...

....Or, an....

....extremely-desperate opportuni$t....

....OR.....

.....flat-out CRAZY!!!!!