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The USA already supports the Palestinian Athurity... to the tune of roughly $200,000,000 a year
I appreciate your clean debate cop out. But America shouldn't be supporting anyone.
The Jewish State is not going to change its policies of "creeping annexation" and "creeping transfer".I've popped this in 'clean debate' in an attempt to seriously chat about US middle eastern policy.
America should change sides and support Palestine.
Imagine the advantages:
Way cheaper than supporting Israel.
Only one enemy in the middle east
No worries about oil supply.
Can anyone suggest why the US supporting Palestine has a downside?
Lets see. Support Hamas, a known terror organization that lobs missiles, mortars and rockets indiscriminately into civilian targets. SPECIFICALLY targeting schools, day care centers , civilian bus lines, shopping centers , pizza parlors and the like. They use civilian tenement buildings , school yards and hospitals to launch their attacks from. For the sole purpose of using the dead civilians they got killed as publicity fodder. A group supported by Iran. Great plan.
Lets see. Support Hamas, a known terror organization that lobs missiles, mortars and rockets indiscriminately into civilian targets. SPECIFICALLY targeting schools, day care centers , civilian bus lines, shopping centers , pizza parlors and the like. They use civilian tenement buildings , school yards and hospitals to launch their attacks from. For the sole purpose of using the dead civilians they got killed as publicity fodder. A group supported by Iran. Great plan.
israel will not defeat HAMAS, and HANAS represents a large portion of the palestinian people. they need to be at the table. they need to be part of the negotiations.
Please mention that to Moshe the next time you see him.Lets see. Support Hamas, a known terror organization that lobs missiles, mortars and rockets indiscriminately into civilian targets. SPECIFICALLY targeting schools, day care centers , civilian bus lines, shopping centers , pizza parlors and the like. They use civilian tenement buildings , school yards and hospitals to launch their attacks from. For the sole purpose of using the dead civilians they got killed as publicity fodder. A group supported by Iran. Great plan.
israel will not defeat HAMAS, and HANAS represents a large portion of the palestinian people. they need to be at the table. they need to be part of the negotiations.
That's a good idea Israel should bring hamas to the table and then blow up the table. Hamas should reap what it sows.
I would no more expect Israel to sit at the table with Hamas than I would expect the US, even under Obama, to sit at the table with Al-Queda.
I've popped this in 'clean debate' in an attempt to seriously chat about US middle eastern policy.
America should change sides and support Palestine.
Imagine the advantages:
Way cheaper than supporting Israel.
Only one enemy in the middle east
No worries about oil supply.
Can anyone suggest why the US supporting Palestine has a downside?
what america should do is support a just and peaceful settlement or get out of the picture and that peaceful settlement should begin with UN resolution 181 as a starting point in negotiating borders.
HAMAS will not be defeated and they are not going anywhere so america should bring them to the negotiating table with no preconditions. there will be no solution without HAMAS. israel knows this and reuses to negotiate with them which, coincidentally, allows them to continue their illegal settlement building.
israel should release marwan barghouti to lead the palestinian negotiating team, provided HAMAS and the PLO agree, which i am sure they would. of course, israel won't do that because, coincidentally, it would mean a cessation of illegal settlement building which is contrary to israel's intentions.
the downside is that american jews, who have been putting their nickels and dimes in those little blue cans since maybe forever, have an unrealistic idea that israel need include judea and samaria, or the west bank which is a necessity for a viable palestinian homeland, and yhey are willing to sacrifice untold jewish and palestinian lives so that they can have their perect little paradise, complete with a ski resort on stolen syrian land.
not much of a downside if you ask me.
one may also want to comsider the fact that, as the surrounding arab countries rise up and struggle for a democracy, we are going to look awfully foolish supporting a failed colonial enterprise.
america should embrace the principles that made us great, and cunduct ourselves in such a manner in the mideast. it is about time.
Lets see. Israel killed the "Hamas military chief" and put a video of this murder proudly into the internet. But the world complains of the reaction - the lates missile attacks.Lets see. Support Hamas, a known terror organization that lobs missiles, mortars and rockets indiscriminately into civilian targets. SPECIFICALLY targeting schools, day care centers , civilian bus lines, shopping centers , pizza parlors and the like. They use civilian tenement buildings , school yards and hospitals to launch their attacks from. For the sole purpose of using the dead civilians they got killed as publicity fodder. A group supported by Iran. Great plan.
Well, guidance systems are so poor, most fall onto fields or in the sea but they can target a pizza queue.
So, excluding the emotive lies, can you explain why support for Palestine instead of Israel would hurt the US?
I am sure one could have made a similar argument about Japan in 1941. I mean we were making a lot of money off selling Oil and metal to Japan.
As for pizza parlors Hamas used suicide bombers on buses and pizza parlors full of teenagers.
and israel and/or israelis drops bombs on apartment buildings full of children, commits war crimes by using certain weapons illegally violates international law constantly, and commits acts of genocide as defined by the convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide...
and where does this two sidedd litany of sins get us. nowhere.
HAMAS is not defeated and they represent a lot of people. to exclude them from any part in negotiating and planning a future palestinian state is folly.
I would no more expect Israel to sit at the table with Hamas than I would expect the US, even under Obama, to sit at the table with Al-Queda.
I would no more expect Israel to sit at the table with Hamas than I would expect the US, even under Obama, to sit at the table with Al-Queda.
al-queda represents whom? al-queda.
sinn fein was a proscribed organisation and the UK sat down with them. and we ended up with the good friday/belfast agreement.
but that is fine. the conflict will continue in a war where israel cannot even afford one defeat, and they will be fighting an enemy that cannot be defeated.
israel's intransience on negotiating will lead to one or the other peoples being pushed into the sea, and either way, israel loses.
another thing to consider is that, if israel continues as they are doing, there is probably going to be a backlash against jewish people world wide.
israel can negotiate from a position of strength now, or they can negotiate from a poition of weakness later.
When Hamas is ready to sit on the table, Israel will. Israel will not sit down with any entity whose goal is Israel's annihilation.
From the Hamas platform:
Article Thirteen
[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the
international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all
contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing
any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the
nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the
movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the
banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: "Allah is
the all-powerful, but most people are not aware."
So I ask you, why would Israel bother?
there is an implicit nullification of that portion of the charter in the fact that HAMAS is willing to sit down and negotiate.
haniyeh has distanced himself from the charter, as have other leading HAMAS figures, to include the recently assassinated al-jabari.
i would never ever suggest we change our declaration of independence to accomodate our current relationship with great britain.
here is what wiki says about the charter...
Relevance of the Charter in the 21st centuryBritish diplomat and former British ambassador to the UN Sir Jeremy Greenstock stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006 as part of their political program".[8] Mohammed Nimer of American University comments on the Charter, Its a tract meant to mobilize support and it should be amended... It projects anger, not vision.[14] Pastor states that those who quote the charter rather than more recent Hamas statements may be using the Charter as an excuse to ignore Hamas.[6]
Dr. Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh (the senior political leader of Hamas) has questioned the use of the charter by Israel and its supporters to brand Hamas as a fundamentalist, terrorist, racist, anti-Semitic organization and claims that they have taken parts of the charter out of context for propaganda purposes. He claims that they dwell on the charter and ignore that Hamas has changed its views with time.He further states that "the Israelis have, for example, translated the charter to several languages, English and French included, intentionally perverting the substance of its tenets to suit their purposes. Those aims were to market its fraudulent translation to as many Western politicians, academics and media channels as possible; and therefore make it easier to claim security concerns as the basis for their legal infractions. The fear-mongering is designed to horrify the West so much that it turns a blind eye to Israels crimes against humanity which contravene international law".[13]
In a further move away from their charter Hamas have stated according to Agence France-Presse and Al Jazeera "the question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people."[15][16] However many remain sceptical of Hamas's new stance, and view at as a ploy to hide its true agenda, "but it is equally true that the new discourse of diluted religious contentto say nothing of the movements increasing pragmatism and flexibility in the political domainreflects genuine and cumulative changes within Hamas."[7]
Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
a peace is not achieved by people dragging their feet. it is only achieved by negotiation with ALL interested parties.
I've popped this in 'clean debate' in an attempt to seriously chat about US middle eastern policy.
America should change sides and support Palestine.
Imagine the advantages:
Way cheaper than supporting Israel.
Only one enemy in the middle east
No worries about oil supply.
Can anyone suggest why the US supporting Palestine has a downside?
I've popped this in 'clean debate' in an attempt to seriously chat about US middle eastern policy.
America should change sides and support Palestine.
Imagine the advantages:
Way cheaper than supporting Israel.
Only one enemy in the middle east
No worries about oil supply.
Can anyone suggest why the US supporting Palestine has a downside?
what america should do is support a just and peaceful settlement or get out of the picture and that peaceful settlement should begin with UN resolution 181 as a starting point in negotiating borders.
HAMAS will not be defeated and they are not going anywhere so america should bring them to the negotiating table with no preconditions. there will be no solution without HAMAS. israel knows this and reuses to negotiate with them which, coincidentally, allows them to continue their illegal settlement building.
israel should release marwan barghouti to lead the palestinian negotiating team, provided HAMAS and the PLO agree, which i am sure they would. of course, israel won't do that because, coincidentally, it would mean a cessation of illegal settlement building which is contrary to israel's intentions.
the downside is that american jews, who have been putting their nickels and dimes in those little blue cans since maybe forever, have an unrealistic idea that israel need include judea and samaria, or the west bank which is a necessity for a viable palestinian homeland, and yhey are willing to sacrifice untold jewish and palestinian lives so that they can have their perect little paradise, complete with a ski resort on stolen syrian land.
not much of a downside if you ask me.
one may also want to comsider the fact that, as the surrounding arab countries rise up and struggle for a democracy, we are going to look awfully foolish supporting a failed colonial enterprise.
america should embrace the principles that made us great, and cunduct ourselves in such a manner in the mideast. it is about time.
I will cleanly address two of your points,
1) UN 181, a non-binding Gen Ass res, is a dead issue (although the Arabs, who violently rejected it in 1947, now regularly ask for a do-over).
2) What Jews in America want - as if one could get a monolithic opinion on this subject - is for the Arabs and Israelis to find a peaceful solution to their conflict.
Oh, and have a nice day.
I am sure one could have made a similar argument about Japan in 1941. I mean we were making a lot of money off selling Oil and metal to Japan.
As for pizza parlors Hamas used suicide bombers on buses and pizza parlors full of teenagers.
and israel and/or israelis drops bombs on apartment buildings full of children, commits war crimes by using certain weapons illegally violates international law constantly, and commits acts of genocide as defined by the convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide...
and where does this two sidedd litany of sins get us. nowhere.
HAMAS is not defeated and they represent a lot of people. to exclude them from any part in negotiating and planning a future palestinian state is folly.
Woo.
I agree with your "litany of sins" assessment and have long held that view.
What is past cannot be undone and cannot be allowed to destroy any chance of a peaceful future, IMHO.