"America Has Declared War on Success"

[Dr Grump]

Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, GM, AIG? That's pretty much where your hard earned dollars are going.

Terrible ain't it. How many people do those companies employ between them? 50? 100? 150?

You ain't a 'bigger picture' person are ya Mash?

 

[code1211]

There are reasonable taxes on the ones that are rich, they are a reversal of the unreasonable expensive taxcuts from the Bush years. If you want fiscal responsibility, this is the biggest example of it.

The rich are still making enough money

What is the appropriate amount of cash a person should be able to keep after they have earned it?

 

[tigerbob]

There are reasonable taxes on the ones that are rich, they are a reversal of the unreasonable expensive taxcuts from the Bush years. If you want fiscal responsibility, this is the biggest example of it.

The rich are still making enough money

What is the appropriate amount of cash a person should be able to keep after they have earned it?

It tends to be that Person A thinks Person B should pay more tax if Person B makes more money than Person A. Of course, the views of Person A often change if they get promoted.

 

[code1211]

The way the rich, bitch and moan about taxes, is pathetic.

I'm not rich, neither were our founders. Remember no taxation without representation? An economic fascist like yourself would contend that we are merely puppets on a string of government, and that all of our income is there's, and what's left over we should be grateful for. It is the other way around. Government exists to serve us.. if we don't like it, we have every right to abolish it, as said so in the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

Not to mention, income tax is tantamount to slavery for 4 months of the year. How does it feel that you're being forced to work for 4 months for the government so they can line the pockets of the likes of Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, GM, AIG? That's pretty much where your hard earned dollars are going. Don't believe propaganda that it's going to end poverty, because we're certainly poorer today than we were 30 years ago.[/QUOTE]


30 years ago was 1979. Remember "Whip Inflatioon Now"? Oil Embargo? Jimmy Carter? America Held Hostage day 198? Stagflation? Misery Index?

In 1957, I was a four year old, my family moved to a new town. My father built a house with 4 bedrooms and 1 bath. A family of 6. No garage, 1 car, 1 TV (B&W), 1 phone on a party line and sometimes the evening meal was Corn on the Cob. That's it. The house was partially completed when we moved in and Dad put down the hardwood floors, installed and finished all of the trim and painted all of the walls. The price tag was $19,500 including the acre of land on which it was built.

We rarely ordered pizza and there were many things that are common today that were rare then like picking up take out on the way home or expensive games.

I never recall being hungry, and while I never felt rich, I never felt poor. I thought that the folks who vacationed in Florida or went to Disneyland were otherworldly.

Anyway, today I live in a three bedroom with 2 baths & attached garage, 2 cars, 2 computers, two big screen TV's with satelite and Cable, 2 cell and 1 land line phone, travel and vacation as the mood hits. I still don't feel rich or feel poor.

So, am I richer today than my parents were back then? By our standards today, that world was poverty-ville. By the standards of that day, my life style today is otherworldly. Comparing the lot of one generation to another is difficult.

 

[editec]

Ah...I feel so sorry for those multibillionarires.

The only thing wrong with our progressive tax system is that it isn't progressive enough.

And since it ISN't, since the masters have convinced your class--that class who ARE productive members of society; that class who are making amounts like $250,000 a year --- MONEY WHICH YOU EARNED HOESNTLY! -- you folks in the affluent WORKING CLASSES are making up for the pitifully low tax rates of the truly SUPERWEALTHY.

If you're a highly productive well paid working stiff, maybe you're a lawyer or a Doctor or an engineer or an entrepenuer, you're SCREWED.

But you're SCREWED because so many of you think the POOR are the cause of your too high tax rates. Look at where the money is REALLY going you foolish people. 4% of our budget goes to the millions of empoverished people. The other 96% goes to the superwealthy in the form of cozy governemtn spending scams.

You're making up for the taxes of those people who you think are you bestest bestest buddies --the superrich--- are NOT paying.

Wake up and smell the classwarm you damned fools!

You people are idiots....depite your ability to make a little more money that most Americans.

Did you REALLY think you could abandon the blue collar classes and NOT have to make up the differences in taxation as THEY continued -- decade after decade-- making less money?!

You used to be allied to the working class, but you've fallen for the conceit that you are rich?

Rich?

Not hardly.

Most of you couldn't last three months if your incomes went away. You WORK for your livings, folks that why you are STILL working class people.

You're working stiffs just like the rest of us -- only many of you fell for the delusion that you weren't.

 

[code1211]

There are reasonable taxes on the ones that are rich, they are a reversal of the unreasonable expensive taxcuts from the Bush years. If you want fiscal responsibility, this is the biggest example of it.

The rich are still making enough money

Your definition of what is rich will probably differ from mine but that is not the point. We punish those that are successful in business by huge taxes. The Bush tax cuts were not deep enough. I want fairness in taxation.

It is not up to you and should not be up to the government to decide if the rich is making enough money or not. Purhaps you wish to have a maximum wage in this country.... I do not. The unemployment will sky rocket even more as Obama raises these taxes on small business.

Unemployment has skyrocketed since the Bush tax cuts. What does that tell you?

For one thing it tells me that you are a Democrat. Following the ENRON Scandals and the .com bubble bursting, we had officially beein recession in March, 2001. I know from the business that i was associated with at about that time that the economy was steaming along okay on December 15 of 2000 and when the Christmas Holidays ended, revenues started at about 10% down and never recovered. It was like flipping a light switch.

9/11 occurred on, well, 9/11 of 2001, obviously about 9 months later, and the economy tanked. The combination of these factors made the economy one of pretty rough roads for a while.

Did the tax cuts help or hurt? Good question. The economy seems to function pretty well under whatever straight jacket the government might want to apply. All business requires to get along is a predictability from government that will allow ability to plan.

Makes you wonder, though. You seem to be saying that Bush's tax cuts increased unemployment. Obama recently cut taxes. What do you predict will be the effect of that cut?

 

[ItsFairmont]

A rich man complaining about money is pretty pathetic.


But, hey, some people worship money. Others God or something else.


My father is rich, and he earned it, but he is obsessed with money. I just visited him a couple months ago (we get along great), and he asked me how I was doing financially. I said I don't really worry about money.

He said, "I do. I think about it all the time."

He used to try to earn love with his money (and still does with my sister by supporting her financially, even though she's almost 45).

He used to tell me (especially when drinking), "You kids are going to be well taken care of when I'm gone."

One day I told him, "I don't care. By the time you die---which I hope is when you're a hundred--I'll be 70 and long retired."

He hasn't brought up my "big inheritance" since. I really don't care. I don't want his money.

Must be a bummer to be that obsessed with money, like an addiction.


I don't worry about or obsess about money because I believe God will provide, and He consistently does. I'm very thankful that I am doing fine in this economy. I have a nice home with a very small mortgage and no other debt whatsoever. I have a stable job with health benefits and a good pension system.

Some months we spend a little too much, and other months we spend less, but we are fine, and that includes giving ten percent of our income for tithing (not just to the church, but to charities, food pantries, etc.).


And I have a few beers in the fridge for this afternoon.


I am blessed by God and happy. His grace and love have freed me from stress about pieces of paper with a president's face on it.

 

[midcan5]

This sort of thinking is so bizarre I cannot tell where it comes from? I could guess but the answers would appear too cynical or conspiratorial.

Are you referring to the world in which the well to do, educate, school and connect? An upper class world I see today after moving up the food chain.

Are you referring to the dumbing down of our students, my wife a 20 plus year teacher tells us every year they get dumber and lazier. If true, whose fault is that?

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Dumbest-Generation-Stupefies-Americans-Jeopardizes/dp/1585426393/ref=pd_sim_b_5]Amazon.com: The Dumbest Generation: How the Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans and Jeopardizes Our Future (Or, Don't Trust Anyone Under 30): Mark Bauerlein: Books[/ame]

Who is declaring war? Why? If he is a good student and bright he will have no trouble in America, especially if young and attractive - after all this is America.

And connections still matter, as does the college or field of study, even though real accomplishments can still trump both.

So why the concern? An irony in this is companies that shift work to India and other countries make big profits for themselves? Is that your concern? Probably not, because this post is pure BS and its purpose and its complaints eludes me as a parent.

The rich get rich because of their merit.
The Conservative Nanny State
UBI and the Flat Tax

 

[tigerbob]

A rich man complaining about money is pretty pathetic.


But, hey, some people worship money. Others God or something else.


My father is rich, and he earned it, but he is obsessed with money. I just visited him a couple months ago (we get along great), and he asked me how I was doing financially. I said I don't really worry about money.

He said, "I do. I think about it all the time."

He used to try to earn love with his money (and still does with my sister by supporting her financially, even though she's almost 45).

He used to tell me (especially when drinking), "You kids are going to be well taken care of when I'm gone."

One day I told him, "I don't care. By the time you die---which I hope is when you're a hundred--I'll be 70 and long retired."

He hasn't brought up my "big inheritance" since. I really don't care. I don't want his money.

Must be a bummer to be that obsessed with money, like an addiction.


I don't worry about or obsess about money because I believe God will provide, and He consistently does. I'm very thankful that I am doing fine in this economy. I have a nice home with a very small mortgage and no other debt whatsoever. I have a stable job with health benefits and a good pension system.

Some months we spend a little too much, and other months we spend less, but we are fine, and that includes giving ten percent of our income for tithing (not just to the church, but to charities, food pantries, etc.).


And I have a few beers in the fridge for this afternoon.


I am blessed by God and happy. His grace and love have freed me from stress about pieces of paper with a president's face on it.

My brother sold his company about 10 years ago. He owned just over 50% of it and sold it for around $200 million. Clearly, he's pretty comfortable financially.

On the downside, he's been married 5 times and his life has been an episode of Dallas.

I'm not wealthy. But I've been married once to a woman who loves me and who I love. I have 2 wonderful children who I'm getting to see grow up every day.

I think I'm a richer man than my brother. But everyone measures wealth in a different way based on their personal goals.

 

[mash107]

The way the rich, bitch and moan about taxes, is pathetic.

I'm not rich, neither were our founders. Remember no taxation without representation?

YOU have representation you moron! You have state legislature which include state representators and state senators, you have a united states representative for your district and you have two senators. YOU HAVE REPRESENTATION. Just because YOU disagree with what the people YOU elect say and do, doesn't mean you don't have any fucking representation you moron.

Now shut the fuck up.

So, you have no qualms about AIG getting lined up with hundreds of billions of dollars, only to give their incompetent boob management hundreds of millions in bonuses? You have no qualms about the Federal Reserve printing hundreds of billions dollars a year to finance a budget out of control? We're living under economic fascism, and you're a complete and utter lackey. If you were alive in 1930, you'd be saying that Hitler was elected fair and square and that we all must live under fascism because just because we disagree with it, doesn't mean we have right to protest... afterall, 'we have representation'.

 

[Munin]

There are reasonable taxes on the ones that are rich, they are a reversal of the unreasonable expensive taxcuts from the Bush years. If you want fiscal responsibility, this is the biggest example of it.

The rich are still making enough money

Your definition of what is rich will probably differ from mine but that is not the point. We punish those that are successful in business by huge taxes. The Bush tax cuts were not deep enough. I want fairness in taxation.

It is not up to you and should not be up to the government to decide if the rich is making enough money or not. Purhaps you wish to have a maximum wage in this country.... I do not. The unemployment will sky rocket even more as Obama raises these taxes on small business.

Ah yes, there you have the small businesses argument. If you would look at the policy then you know that small businesses are not the ones who are getting much higher taxes. Most people who bring up this argument are the ones who support big businesses and want to protect them, they can't bring up that they want to protect the big businesses because that s not popular and that is why they hide behind the small businesses. The irony is usually that the big businesses are the ones who get the most out of everything, as a result the small businesses get hurt by the unfair competition against the big ones.

The argument that you won't work harder if you will get taxed more when you get richer is simply stupid: You will still make more money then before when you are richer, so you will still want to be richer by working harder.


The other argument that there will be more unemployment when businesses are taxed higher is only true if taxes were to go up significantly, which is not the case: these are in no sense huge taxes.

It is not up to you and should not be up to the government to decide if the rich is making enough money or not.

Up to who is it then? Who decides how much/little the government should tax companies? Ultimately it is the people who decide this through elections, thereby electing a government. So the government should decide how much or how little companies get taxed. Bush decided that the rich should make more money by cutting taxes for them, but when you look at the Bush deficit you ll see that that was not a good idea.

Purhaps you wish to have a maximum wage in this country.... I do not.

I didn't say that, I m against maximum wages and I m also against a tax system where the middle class and lower classes have to pay the burden for tax cuts given to the rich. The taxcuts given to the rich were fiscally unresponsible, they are simply turned back to the normal tax levels (before the Bush tax-cuts).

The unemployment will sky rocket even more as Obama raises these taxes on small business.

Ah yes you forgot to mention that the current unemployment (which is what you can describe as skyrocketed unemployment) level wasn't stopped by the Bush tax-cuts for the rich. I agree that rising taxes very much is bad during an economic crisis, but that s not the case and another argument is that the rich are usually the ones who are the least effected by this (raising taxes) during an economic crisis: because the impact on them is relatively lower then when you tax lower incomes. Again, we re only going back to normal levels of taxes.

 

[HUGGY]

With the unreasonable taxes on those that are successful how can anyone think it is anything less that a declaration of war against the successful in this country. We have seen propaganda for some time in the media against the wealthy with exception of the movie industry.

I have a grandson in school at this time and he makes very good grades. There must be a way to prepare him for this future America. Perhaps he should recieve "time out" when he aces a test. Perhaps we should remove points off his test score and give it to one of the children that does not do the work. Maybe we should all become "C" students.

Unreasonable? The wealthy act like they are successful in a vacume. If you think you could do better under the protection of another nation ..go there.

 

[driveby]

There are reasonable taxes on the ones that are rich, they are a reversal of the unreasonable expensive taxcuts from the Bush years. If you want fiscal responsibility, this is the biggest example of it.

The rich are still making enough money

Munin the clown says the rich are still making enough money and its ok for the govt. to confiscate more of it, good enough for me .....

 

[jillian]

There are reasonable taxes on the ones that are rich, they are a reversal of the unreasonable expensive taxcuts from the Bush years. If you want fiscal responsibility, this is the biggest example of it.

The rich are still making enough money

i love class warfare.....

like the one thats been waged against the middle class by the right since Reagan was president?

it's heartwarming, isn't it?

 

[bornright]

Unemployment has skyrocketed since the Bush tax cuts. What does that tell you?

Actually unemployment did not skyrocket under the Bush administration until the democrats took over congress.

 

[bornright]

There are reasonable taxes on the ones that are rich, they are a reversal of the unreasonable expensive taxcuts from the Bush years. If you want fiscal responsibility, this is the biggest example of it.

The rich are still making enough money

Your definition of what is rich will probably differ from mine but that is not the point. We punish those that are successful in business by huge taxes. The Bush tax cuts were not deep enough. I want fairness in taxation.

It is not up to you and should not be up to the government to decide if the rich is making enough money or not. Purhaps you wish to have a maximum wage in this country.... I do not. The unemployment will sky rocket even more as Obama raises these taxes on small business.

Ah yes, there you have the small businesses argument. If you would look at the policy then you know that small businesses are not the ones who are getting much higher taxes. Most people who bring up this argument are the ones who support big businesses and want to protect them, they can't bring up that they want to protect the big businesses because that s not popular and that is why they hide behind the small businesses. The irony is usually that the big businesses are the ones who get the most out of everything, as a result the small businesses get hurt by the unfair competition against the big ones.

The argument that you won't work harder if you will get taxed more when you get richer is simply stupid: You will still make more money then before when you are richer, so you will still want to be richer by working harder.


The other argument that there will be more unemployment when businesses are taxed higher is only true if taxes were to go up significantly, which is not the case: these are in no sense huge taxes.


Up to who is it then? Who decides how much/little the government should tax companies? Ultimately it is the people who decide this through elections, thereby electing a government. So the government should decide how much or how little companies get taxed. Bush decided that the rich should make more money by cutting taxes for them, but when you look at the Bush deficit you ll see that that was not a good idea.

Purhaps you wish to have a maximum wage in this country.... I do not.

I didn't say that, I m against maximum wages and I m also against a tax system where the middle class and lower classes have to pay the burden for tax cuts given to the rich. The taxcuts given to the rich were fiscally unresponsible, they are simply turned back to the normal tax levels (before the Bush tax-cuts).

The unemployment will sky rocket even more as Obama raises these taxes on small business.

Ah yes you forgot to mention that the current unemployment (which is what you can describe as skyrocketed unemployment) level wasn't stopped by the Bush tax-cuts for the rich. I agree that rising taxes very much is bad during an economic crisis, but that s not the case and another argument is that the rich are usually the ones who are the least effected by this (raising taxes) during an economic crisis: because the impact on them is relatively lower then when you tax lower incomes. Again, we re only going back to normal levels of taxes.

So you feel that the successful should pay their fair share of taxes as the middle and lower classes? Does this mean that you feel everyone should have to pay taxes? Perhaps a flat 15% across the board? This might be difficult for the tremendous number in this country that do not pay tax and never have. I do not feel we as Americans should ever be placed in a particular class as in the past there was no limit to what a citizen could climb to with hard work, education, and luck. We are beginning to see a limit placed on Americans now with the Obama change.

If you make over 250,000 per household you will see an increase in taxes admittedly by the Obama Administration. There are very very few small businesses that will not be negatively affected as few make less that 250,000. They will tax at a much lover wage but say he is truthful, it will destroy the upper middle class.

 

[bornright]

With the unreasonable taxes on those that are successful how can anyone think it is anything less that a declaration of war against the successful in this country. We have seen propaganda for some time in the media against the wealthy with exception of the movie industry.

I have a grandson in school at this time and he makes very good grades. There must be a way to prepare him for this future America. Perhaps he should recieve "time out" when he aces a test. Perhaps we should remove points off his test score and give it to one of the children that does not do the work. Maybe we should all become "C" students.

Unreasonable? The wealthy act like they are successful in a vacume. If you think you could do better under the protection of another nation ..go there.

I choose to correct what we have here as I have invested so much in it. Besides individuals such as yourself depend so much on people such as myself. If we left what would you do?

 

[HUGGY]

With the unreasonable taxes on those that are successful how can anyone think it is anything less that a declaration of war against the successful in this country. We have seen propaganda for some time in the media against the wealthy with exception of the movie industry.

I have a grandson in school at this time and he makes very good grades. There must be a way to prepare him for this future America. Perhaps he should recieve "time out" when he aces a test. Perhaps we should remove points off his test score and give it to one of the children that does not do the work. Maybe we should all become "C" students.

Unreasonable? The wealthy act like they are successful in a vacume. If you think you could do better under the protection of another nation ..go there.

I choose to correct what we have here as I have invested so much in it. Besides individuals such as yourself depend so much on people such as myself. If we left what would you do?

You don't know me at all. I come from a wealthy family and have several inventions. I am in a better position than most to be affected by higher taxes above the $250,000 threshhold.

From you personally I don't need you to subsidise anything. I don't care if you can even afford to PAY attention

 

[bornright]

Unreasonable? The wealthy act like they are successful in a vacume. If you think you could do better under the protection of another nation ..go there.

I choose to correct what we have here as I have invested so much in it. Besides individuals such as yourself depend so much on people such as myself. If we left what would you do?

You don't know me at all. I come from a wealthy family and have several inventions. I am in a better position than most to be affected by higher taxes above the $250,000 threshhold.

From you personally I don't need you to subsidise anything. I don't care if you can even afford to PAY attention

I have not come from a wealthy family. I have always had to work to get what I have. I do not consider myself wealthy but I think the "Obama Mob" thinks that I am.

 

[B94]

I say in our current system of federal income taxes the people that make above 1 millon a year should pay 90%.

We need a (tax the rich) tea party.