Am I alone in thinking wikileaks is a GOOD thing?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not really. They released "state secrets" too.

no. they uncovered criminal activity. watergate started as a burglary which was then covered up.

had nixon not covered up the activities of the plumbers, he would never have had a problem.

you can't compare Woodward and Bernstein to this petulant twit.

Stealing people's credit card information, among other things, is criminal activity.

 

[Valerie]

1) What has him being a hacker have to do with why he is doing this? Or his motivation?
2) A lot of good has come from this (IMO). I now know a lot of different things that I suspected, but now know to be fact.
3) I think he wants to hurt and embarass people who lead deceptive and Machiavallian lives that affect all of us. And I'm over the moon he is doing so.
4) Trust you Yanks to be so self-indulgent that you think it is all about you. There are other countries who are going to be embarassed, including Australia.
5) Well his 15 minutes has gone on for the best part of 6 months. I have already told you this in another form of communication that they interviewed a journo who had spent some time with Assange over the past couple of months. He said he is thrifty and he is not doing it for money, and that he is a very intense guy. From what he could make out, what motivates him appears to be in my point three.

being a hacker requires a certain mindset. a combination of a sense of entitlement with a hatred of authority. i think that's exactly what assange has displayed. he's nothing but a grown up hacker, without consideration for the ramifications releasing information which he knows was stolen and wasn't his to release.

Oh, please do tell. How many hackers have you analysed psychologically? What tests did you give them? What were the results?

I absolutely think he has considered the ramifications, although from what I understand he doesn't care - not because of his ego, but because he honestly believes some people and govts think they are above the law. Just remember, if half these people weren't doing the shit they were doing, there would be no wikileaks...shrug...

You also are attributing a psychological analysis...

He honestly believes HE should be above the law but it is wrong for governments to maintain confidential classified information as if they are above the law...?

 

[SFC Ollie]

For Ollie's Ignorant Arse:

"The UN Charter, the Headquarters Agreement and the 1946 Convention contain provisions relating to the privileges and immunities of the Organisation," a statement by UN spokesman Farhan Haq said. "The UN relies on the adherence by member states to these various undertakings."

Haq noted the follow clause of the UN Charter: "The property and assets of the United Nations, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall be immune from search, requisition, confiscation, expropriation and any other form of interference, whether by executive, administrative, judicial, or legislative action."

"The UN is by its very nature a transparent organisation that makes a great deal of information about its activities available to the public and member states. UN officials regularly meet representatives of member states to brief them on UN activities," he added.

I'm ignorant for asking you to back up a claim you make. Fuck you asshole. And that still doesn't say that spying is illegal. But I knew that. You of course will argue differently but you have already proven yourself and what you are. I for one have no further use of you.

 

[Revere]

If they weren't embarrassing, the State Department would leak them to the New York Times like it does everything else it's not embarrassed by.

 

[Trajan]

come now, comparing them, they, with him, is an insult to W&B and the system etc. they worked in/with.

I disagree. The game has changed since then, especially since the advent of the internet/email/smart phones etc. Was Deep Throat giving them info that was privileged? Should not have been let out?

yes he was and he was a whistle blower, had had exact knowledge of wrong doing, ding, he did it in what some may think is a slimy way but he had to protect himself.

 

[Dr Grump]

[

Stealing people's credit card information, among other things, is criminal activity.

And what state secrets have been revealed?

The Saudis fund AQ? Why is that a state secret?
Hillary wanted to spy on UN officials - know their computer passwords and credit card details? Why are these state secrets?
That Quadafi likes Big Boobed European nurses? Again, where is the state secret?
That some Yank diplomats think Bersocoli is nothing more than a little brat/boy? Where's the state secret?
That Prince Andrew of England was dissing foreigners while in Kazahstan (NOTE, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AMERICA - SORRY, OH EGO CENTRIC ONES - TRUE STORY)

Please, when this Wikileaks site and Assange start giving out nuclear codes, troop movements or top secret govt technology break throughs - please, start talking to me about espionage and all the faux outrage you guys are rambling on about...

 

[Dr Grump]

For Ollie's Ignorant Arse:

"The UN Charter, the Headquarters Agreement and the 1946 Convention contain provisions relating to the privileges and immunities of the Organisation," a statement by UN spokesman Farhan Haq said. "The UN relies on the adherence by member states to these various undertakings."

Haq noted the follow clause of the UN Charter: "The property and assets of the United Nations, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall be immune from search, requisition, confiscation, expropriation and any other form of interference, whether by executive, administrative, judicial, or legislative action."

"The UN is by its very nature a transparent organisation that makes a great deal of information about its activities available to the public and member states. UN officials regularly meet representatives of member states to brief them on UN activities," he added.

I'm ignorant for asking you to back up a claim you make. Fuck you asshole. And that still doesn't say that spying is illegal. But I knew that. You of course will argue differently but you have already proven yourself and what you are. I for one have no further use of you.

Read the fine print, Moron...

 

[Dr Grump]

being a hacker requires a certain mindset. a combination of a sense of entitlement with a hatred of authority. i think that's exactly what assange has displayed. he's nothing but a grown up hacker, without consideration for the ramifications releasing information which he knows was stolen and wasn't his to release.

Oh, please do tell. How many hackers have you analysed psychologically? What tests did you give them? What were the results?

I absolutely think he has considered the ramifications, although from what I understand he doesn't care - not because of his ego, but because he honestly believes some people and govts think they are above the law. Just remember, if half these people weren't doing the shit they were doing, there would be no wikileaks...shrug...

You also are attributing a psychological analysis...

He honestly believes HE should be above the law but it is wrong for governments to maintain confidential classified information as if they are above the law...?

That's because I know for a fact taht Jillian has only read the Wikipedia bio on him. Assange is an Aussie. I live in Aussie and they interviewed a journo last night who has spent the last three months with him. His knowledge on the guy was a lot more insightful than a Wiki bio...

Is he above the law? Has he done something wrong?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

[

Stealing people's credit card information, among other things, is criminal activity.

And what state secrets have been revealed?

The Saudis fund AQ? Why is that a state secret?
Hillary wanted to spy on UN officials - know their computer passwords and credit card details? Why are these state secrets?
That Quadafi likes Big Boobed European nurses? Again, where is the state secret?
That some Yank diplomats think Bersocoli is nothing more than a little brat/boy? Where's the state secret?
That Prince Andrew of England was dissing foreigners while in Kazahstan (NOTE, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AMERICA - SORRY, OH EGO CENTRIC ONES - TRUE STORY)

Please, when this Wikileaks site and Assange start giving out nuclear codes, troop movements or top secret govt technology break throughs - please, start talking to me about espionage and all the faux outrage you guys are rambling on about...

Apparently it was a state secret that U.S. officials are criminals and jerks.

 

[Valerie]

Oh, please do tell. How many hackers have you analysed psychologically? What tests did you give them? What were the results?

I absolutely think he has considered the ramifications, although from what I understand he doesn't care - not because of his ego, but because he honestly believes some people and govts think they are above the law. Just remember, if half these people weren't doing the shit they were doing, there would be no wikileaks...shrug...

You also are attributing a psychological analysis...

He honestly believes HE should be above the law but it is wrong for governments to maintain confidential classified information as if they are above the law...?

That's because I know for a fact taht Jillian has only read the Wikipedia bio on him. Assange is an Aussie. I live in Aussie and they interviewed a journo last night who has spent the last three months with him. His knowledge on the guy was a lot more insightful than a Wiki bio...

Is he above the law? Has he done something wrong?

Yes, I believe he has. And it's not just about America either.

 

[Valerie]

[

Stealing people's credit card information, among other things, is criminal activity.

And what state secrets have been revealed?

The Saudis fund AQ? Why is that a state secret?
Hillary wanted to spy on UN officials - know their computer passwords and credit card details? Why are these state secrets?
That Quadafi likes Big Boobed European nurses? Again, where is the state secret?
That some Yank diplomats think Bersocoli is nothing more than a little brat/boy? Where's the state secret?
That Prince Andrew of England was dissing foreigners while in Kazahstan (NOTE, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AMERICA - SORRY, OH EGO CENTRIC ONES - TRUE STORY)

Please, when this Wikileaks site and Assange start giving out nuclear codes, troop movements or top secret govt technology break throughs - please, start talking to me about espionage and all the faux outrage you guys are rambling on about...

So why do you need to know? You're really over the moon for gaining this type of information in this manner? A breach is a breach and if one thing can be vulnerable to such compromise then so can another... Maybe it's ALL faux drama and ego.

 

[Dr Grump]

So why do you need to know? You're really over the moon for gaining this type of information in this manner? A breach is a breach and if one thing can be vulnerable to such compromise then so can another... Maybe it's ALL faux drama and ego.

In the case of Australia and NZ, I pay my govt their wages. I want to know what they are up to. It's my right...

You last sentence - possibly true....

 

[bag]

wiki leaks is a leak of a leak of a leak. ya know.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Actually I've had to reevaluate my thinking a little on this, having spent some time reading the Espionage Act and various interpretations of it by various courts over the years.

Wikileaks allows public upload to their server of documents, files, photos, videos, just about any size or type of file. This is what Manning reportedly did with the files he stole from his duty station.

Now, there is where it gets a little tricky -- once those files are received it all depends on what you do with them -- what overt act(s) are committed -- as to whether you're guilty of espionage under the law. I believe a case might can be made for that, now.

If our government can get an indictment under the Espionage Act on Assange and any/all co-conspirators, I now support his apprehension, arrest and trial.

 

[Sallow]

Actually I've had to reevaluate my thinking a little on this, having spent some time reading the Espionage Act and various interpretations of it by various courts over the years.

Wikileaks allows public upload to their server of documents, files, photos, videos, just about any size or type of file. This is what Manning reportedly did with the files he stole from his duty station.

Now, there is where it gets a little tricky -- once those files are received it all depends on what you do with them -- what overt act(s) are committed -- as to whether you're guilty of espionage under the law. I believe a case might can be made for that, now.

If our government can get an indictment under the Espionage Act on Assange and any/all co-conspirators, I now support his apprehension, arrest and trial.

I don't think it's quite that easy. But I don't know what the law is..and how it applies internationally.

In any case..this brings up the crux of the problem with having so many classified documents. It's extremely hard to manage.

 

[Liability]

Actually I've had to reevaluate my thinking a little on this, having spent some time reading the Espionage Act and various interpretations of it by various courts over the years.

Wikileaks allows public upload to their server of documents, files, photos, videos, just about any size or type of file. This is what Manning reportedly did with the files he stole from his duty station.

Now, there is where it gets a little tricky -- once those files are received it all depends on what you do with them -- what overt act(s) are committed -- as to whether you're guilty of espionage under the law. I believe a case might can be made for that, now.

If our government can get an indictment under the Espionage Act on Assange and any/all co-conspirators, I now support his apprehension, arrest and trial.

I don't think it's quite that easy. But I don't know what the law is..and how it applies internationally.

In any case..this brings up the crux of the problem with having so many classified documents. It's extremely hard to manage.

I wonder how many nations permit their diplomatic cables and inter departmental communications related to international relations to be "open" public documents?

My hunch is that the number is roughly -- zero.

 

[Sallow]

Actually I've had to reevaluate my thinking a little on this, having spent some time reading the Espionage Act and various interpretations of it by various courts over the years.

Wikileaks allows public upload to their server of documents, files, photos, videos, just about any size or type of file. This is what Manning reportedly did with the files he stole from his duty station.

Now, there is where it gets a little tricky -- once those files are received it all depends on what you do with them -- what overt act(s) are committed -- as to whether you're guilty of espionage under the law. I believe a case might can be made for that, now.

If our government can get an indictment under the Espionage Act on Assange and any/all co-conspirators, I now support his apprehension, arrest and trial.

I don't think it's quite that easy. But I don't know what the law is..and how it applies internationally.

In any case..this brings up the crux of the problem with having so many classified documents. It's extremely hard to manage.

I wonder how many nations permit their diplomatic cables and inter departmental communications related to international relations to be "open" public documents?

My hunch is that the number is roughly -- zero.

Not sure about it..but this is probably correct for some limited time period.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Actually I've had to reevaluate my thinking a little on this, having spent some time reading the Espionage Act and various interpretations of it by various courts over the years.

Wikileaks allows public upload to their server of documents, files, photos, videos, just about any size or type of file. This is what Manning reportedly did with the files he stole from his duty station.

Now, there is where it gets a little tricky -- once those files are received it all depends on what you do with them -- what overt act(s) are committed -- as to whether you're guilty of espionage under the law. I believe a case might can be made for that, now.

If our government can get an indictment under the Espionage Act on Assange and any/all co-conspirators, I now support his apprehension, arrest and trial.

I don't think it's quite that easy. But I don't know what the law is..and how it applies internationally.

The little gimmick of allowing public uploads is what Assange thinks, I believe, shields him from prosecution. Not his fault if people upload classified material, will be the claim. The fact that these uploads are not visible or otherwise distributed until HE makes them so, is the overt act. That negates his little built-in gimmick, IMO.

EA has been used hundreds of times against foreign nationals, so there's plenty of precedent there.

In any case..this brings up the crux of the problem with having so many classified documents. It's extremely hard to manage.

We have to go through full body scans and/or pat downs if we want to fly to Mayberry to spend the holidays with Aunt Bee, but this Manning cat is able to walk into his sensitive and supposedly secure IT duty station with blank flash drives and CD-RW disks labeled "Lady GaGa," copy files to them, then leave with them. This isn't rocket science, all such personnel should be searched and nothing allowed in or out. It's so simple of a thing that it's alarming to me that obviously, this wasn't procedure.

And we still don't know if it is yet, in light of this mess. Which is even more alarming.

 

[jillian]

we went through this yesterday. he is not a whistle blower. a whistle blower acts to out and stop an illegality. i am not convinced anything about what we were doing was illegal. and if his concern were illegality, why is his focus the U.S.? no other country engages in information gathering?

i don't have to vilify his motivations. res ipsa loquitur... the facts speak for themselves.

1) What are his motivations vis-a-vis the 'facts'?
2) You missed point 4 in my recent missive about how ego/ethno centric you Yanks are- Hint: THE US IS NOT THE ONLY COUNTRY BEING EMBARASSED HERE... do I have to bold the caps? IE: I know this may be hard for America to take, but it's not ALL ABOUT YOU!..

but it's the U.S.'s classified documents that were released.

so you want to compare this hacker with woodward and bernstein?? woodward and bernstein served a public purpose.

what public purpose does this serve besides pure spite and anti-american sentiment?

and i know it's not all about us.

so you can save that one. pffffft

 

[GHook93]

Good for who is the question?

It proves the world hates Iran, including the Arabs!
It did a great deal for Israel proving many things the Israel's said is true, including Cast Lead.

HOWEVER, this is bad for our Government, President, Arab Allies, Allies in general, informants and our troops! That makes it horrendous in my book and bad news all the way around! This shit hole needs to be brought in on espionage charges!