Alien Life? You better hope God exists!

[Votto]

. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet

There's one massive flaw in your argument. You don't know the earth's conditions are unique and given you concede there are trillions of stars with planets the chances of Earth's conditions being unique are vanishingly slim.

If life did first evolve in the oceans there could be many water worlds throughout the universe, even in our own solar system, where life could not survive on its own frozen surface let alone explore space even if intelligent species did evolve.

So is abiogenesis still occurring in Earth's oceans?

If not, why not? If so, where?

How can science promote a concept it can neither observe or duplicate?

 

[hobelim]

. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet

There's one massive flaw in your argument. You don't know the earth's conditions are unique and given you concede there are trillions of stars with planets the chances of Earth's conditions being unique are vanishingly slim.

If life did first evolve in the oceans there could be many water worlds throughout the universe, even in our own solar system, where life could not survive on its own frozen surface let alone explore space even if intelligent species did evolve.

So is abiogenesis still occurring in Earth's oceans?

If not, why not? If so, where?

How can science promote a concept it can neither observe or duplicate?

Obviously life on earth began at some point. all of the available evidence points to its beginning in the oceans. How it began is another matter. Tons of cosmic debris falls from the sky from distant parts of the universe every day. Chances are that life originated elsewhere.

We already know that water exists on the moons of other planets in our own solar system. We already know that life can thrive deep underwater without sunlight. Many forms of primitive life seem to be able to survive in the vacuum of space. 40,000 year old microbes have survived in a state of suspended animation trapped inside tiny bubbles in salt crystals buried in Death Valley. As terrestrial creatures we survive in an environment that would kill all of the life in the ocean.

Given the many extreme conditions in which life can survive on earth, the chances are that the universe is teeming with life.

If it isn't already then it will be as soon as the earth is hit by a big enough asteroid.

Heck, most likely the seeds of life from earth have already been traveling in chunks of rocks and frozen water to other star systems for at least 65 million years.

 

[alang1216]

How can science promote a concept it can neither observe or duplicate?

When science observes there is life on a planet that was created in last 4.5 billion years it can safely say life was either created here from non-living matter or it came from off planet. We can theorize how life arose here and have no evidence it that it arrived from elsewhere. Can we observe or duplicate it? No but we can confidently infer it.

 

[Votto]

How can science promote a concept it can neither observe or duplicate?

When science observes there is life on a planet that was created in last 4.5 billion years it can safely say life was either created here from non-living matter or it came from off planet. We can theorize how life arose here and have no evidence it that it arrived from elsewhere. Can we observe or duplicate it? No but we can confidently infer it.

Created?

Interesting.

 

[miketx]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

 

[alang1216]

Created?

Interesting.

Very. Almost certainly by natural processes governed by natural law. No 'Creator' required.

 

[alang1216]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

So he deliberately tries to fool us? That is cruel and hateful. And not even necessary.

 

[hobelim]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

If an advanced alien species ever visited the earth, they might conclude that there weren't any signs of intelligent life.

 

[miketx]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

So he deliberately tries to fool us? That is cruel and hateful.

He, who? No offense but it is troubling the number of times people try to put words in your mouth, isn't it?

 

[miketx]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

If an advanced alien species ever visited the earth, they might conclude that there weren't any signs of intelligent life.

If so then they would be the most retarded space faring race ever because this planet screams intelligence and broadcasts it to the stars.

 

[hobelim]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

If an advanced alien species ever visited the earth, they might conclude that there weren't any signs of intelligent life.

If so then they would be the most retarded space faring race ever because this planet screams intelligence and broadcasts it to the stars.

From their point of view and standards of intelligence it might just come across as a cacophony of monkey shrieks.

If you want to talk about a retarded space faring species think about human beings who imagine that they are the only forms of intelligent life on earth who are so advanced that we are seeking to communicate with extraterrestrial creatures from other planets meanwhile we cant communicate with other terrestrial creatures on this planet even though they obviously are intelligent enough to communicate with each other.

 

[Votto]

Created?

Interesting.

Very. Almost certainly by natural processes governed by natural law. No 'Creator' required.

Then why did you use the word created? Why not accident?

Further, how can intelligent thought not duplicate a process that I'm expected to believe just happened by itself?

 

[alang1216]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

So he deliberately tries to fool us? That is cruel and hateful.

He, who? No offense but it is troubling the number of times people try to put words in your mouth, isn't it?

'He' as in God, the subject of your post???

 

[alang1216]

Created?

Interesting.

Very. Almost certainly by natural processes governed by natural law. No 'Creator' required.

Then why did you use the word created? Why not accident?

Further, how can intelligent thought not duplicate a process that I'm expected to believe just happened by itself?

Accidents alone would not have led to us but you may choose any word you prefer.

Many remarkable things happen without the necessity of an intelligence. Northern lights, the Grand Canyon, cosmic nebula, etc.

 

[miketx]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

So he deliberately tries to fool us? That is cruel and hateful.

He, who? No offense but it is troubling the number of times people try to put words in your mouth, isn't it?

'He' as in God, the subject of your post???

lol you need to read it again. The last part had nothing to do with God.

 

[alang1216]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

So he deliberately tries to fool us? That is cruel and hateful.

He, who? No offense but it is troubling the number of times people try to put words in your mouth, isn't it?

'He' as in God, the subject of your post???

lol you need to read it again. The last part had nothing to do with God.

The 'superior intelligence' is either God or enabled by God to deceive us. If there is no God in the mix, there is no conceivable reason to think a superior intelligence would have any fear of us or any reason to keep us in the dark.

 

[hobelim]

If we are God's children and he did create all this and we are alone, that would be one selfish cruel God. But, what if it's all an illusion and it stops once we leave the heliosphere? That all we see is an image of stars and planets, orbs of light, produced by a superior intelligence that wants to keep us contained here in the dark?

So he deliberately tries to fool us? That is cruel and hateful.

He, who? No offense but it is troubling the number of times people try to put words in your mouth, isn't it?

'He' as in God, the subject of your post???

lol you need to read it again. The last part had nothing to do with God.

The 'superior intelligence' is either God or enabled by God to deceive us. If there is no God in the mix, there is no conceivable reason to think a superior intelligence would have any fear of us or any reason to keep us in the dark.

According to my extensive studies the only form of intelligent life anywhere in the universe that would keep people in the dark out of fear of people are other people...

 

[Boss]

. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet

There's one massive flaw in your argument. You don't know the earth's conditions are unique and given you concede there are trillions of stars with planets the chances of Earth's conditions being unique are vanishingly slim.

But we do know that the conditions are consequential of specific events which happened. Some massive body collided with early Earth to form our moon and set our planet into a distinct wobbling rotation that forever gives us seasons. Seasons and tides which are the consequences of these events are very important in the function of most living processes, particularly, the more advanced processes, including mammals and humans.

For me, what is slim, is the probability that any other planet happened to hit the lottery of specific combinations of events at just the right time to enable the same ecosystem as we have. And that this just so happened to a planet with an abundance of liquid water and a molten iron-nickel core which enabled a protective magnetic field and atmospheric pressure to keep the water from vaporizing out into space..... on and on and on with the long list of things which give us the planet we have. No, I think that must be rare if not totally unique. I see no evidence in logic to suggest otherwise.

 

[Boss]

I'm not sure what you consider "intelligent life" but dinos certainly had some intelligence. They were evolving for as long as mammals and were much more successful at it. If that asteroid had missed us the dino could well have become sentient given another 65 million years. As to the asteroid, it was a rare but regular event. Throughout earths history large asteroids have continually hitting the earth every few million years.

Well, I suppose you could believe that, given time, dinosaurs would have sent dinos to the moon and invented science to cure diseases and discover physics. I don't believe that because there is no evidence to suggest they were moving in that direction.

And yes, asteroids hit planets all the time but this particular one just so happened to be large enough to destroy the dinosaurs but not all living things, and it happened at just the right time along the evolution scale to allow mammals to benefit from the extinction event.

My entire point is that our "intelligent life" is the result of quite a few circumstantial events which preceded it and made it possible. And even with all this amazing menagerie of circumstantial events happening, it's only within the past 60,000 years or so that we see anything resembling what we would consider "intelligent life" if we discovered it elsewhere.

 

[Votto]

Created?

Interesting.

Very. Almost certainly by natural processes governed by natural law. No 'Creator' required.

Then why did you use the word created? Why not accident?

Further, how can intelligent thought not duplicate a process that I'm expected to believe just happened by itself?

Accidents alone would not have led to us but you may choose any word you prefer.

Many remarkable things happen without the necessity of an intelligence. Northern lights, the Grand Canyon, cosmic nebula, etc.

But those we can observe and/or duplicate in some way.