Alien Life? You better hope God exists!

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Boss, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Boss
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    Boss Take a Memo:

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    I constantly hear the speculations over the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in our universe from people who completely dismiss any possibility of a Creator God. I find this extraordinary to say the least. I know this thread will spark a contentious debate but I believe it's one well worth exploring. This, of course, is simply a matter of philosophy, which is why I chose the Religion and Ethics forum instead of Science and Technology. We have no evidence life exists anywhere but planet Earth.

    I would like to set aside the various arguments for religious philosophies and focus on the aspects of logic and reason in examining the question at hand. Does intelligent life exist elsewhere? The primary argument to conclude that it likely does, relies on the sheer number of stars and planets. Because there are trillions of stars and each one is likely to have a rocky planet in a zone compatible for conditions of life, some will assume the possibility is very likely. I would like to disabuse you of this notion.

    First of all, we have to consider that intelligent life on this planet is the result of many circumstances over the course of 4.5 billion years, if we are to believe the modern scientific theories regarding evolution, etc. We'll stick with the current scientific parameters as opposed to quirky young earth creationist dogma, and let's see how this works out.

    We don't know how life originated. Whatever happened was extremely unusual and rare because it doesn't seem to be happening anymore and there is no evidence of it happening anywhere else. But let's take for granted that some mysterious combinations in the forces of physics and nature combined at the perfect place and time to originate life on Earth. It seems reasonable to conclude the unique conditions of our planet may have contributed in some way, but they certainly contributed to the "evolution" of life once it had originated. Our wobbly orbit, caused by a careening body which formed our Moon, which fell into perfect geosynchronous orbit and caused tides and seasons to happen... all of which tremendously contribute to the sustainability of life and life cycles. The presence of abundant water in liquid form. A molten iron-nickel core which gives us a protective magnetic field. Atmospheric pressure which prevents our liquid source of water from evaporating into space. And dozens of other things which contribute to an environment conducive to life in general.

    Logically, when we begin to narrow down the billions of possible planetary candidates which could even support life, the odds become exponentially less and less with each of these criteria applied. Okay, so maybe one in a billion planets could support life? That still means there is a good possibility it might exist elsewhere. But what form does it take? All we have to go by is what data we have here on Earth.

    Nature, left to it's own evolution, produced a planet teaming with dinosaurs. Big giant lizards and flying reptiles... nothing approaching intelligent life. It took a rare cosmic event, supposedly an asteroid striking the planet and wiping out the dinosaurs but not wiping out all life forms. From there, the reemerging life spawned mammals which gave rise to primates and then humans. So now we have at least two distinct cosmic events of interaction, the moon collision and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, which had to happen at a precise point in time for there to be any form of intelligent life on Earth. And that is if you don't count whatever cosmic phenomenon gave us all the water while no other planets around us seemed to get any.

    Setting aside religion, at some point, don't you have to consider the number of miraculous events which had to happen as they did, for intelligent life to exist here? What would be the odds of those same events happening elsewhere? I believe it is all but impossible that another intelligent life form exists elsewhere unless there is a Creator. A force beyond the physical which intelligently set into motion the precise events and phenomenon which had to occur for intelligent life to emerge.
     
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  2. william the wie
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    william the wie Gold Member

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    "Evidence that demands a verdict" or simply the later works of Wallace and Crick would be a good place to start. Also the Hari Krishna "Secret History of Humanity" or Bjorn Kurten's "Not From the Apes" all make good arguments.
     
  3. bgrouse
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    bgrouse BANNED

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    So you doubt the existence of other intelligent life despite the fact that you belong to that species of intelligent life and know for a fact that at least one instance of it exists, but you don't doubt the existence of some "beyond the physical" intelligence (a god) for which you have absolutely no evidence and which you have never seen? That doesn't make any sense. You KNOW intelligent life can come about at least based on the fact that it DOES exist. You even explain HOW it came about. But you don't think it's possible for it to happen again. OK, but then why would you believe in a god? There's no evidence it exists, we can't explain what it is, and we certainly have no way to even begin to discuss how it came about.

    I would think you'd sooner believe another instance of something you have already seen exists vs believing that something which nobody has ever seen exists.
     
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  4. ScienceRocks
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    ScienceRocks Democrat all the way!

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    And what the fuck is god going to do to stop them from slaughtering all us backwards earth lings?

    The best thing we can do is construct a space force.
     
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  5. william the wie
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    william the wie Gold Member

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    True the gospel is predicated on most people being predestined to not hear the voice of the shepherd. Nor will any demonstration short of the judgement of the damned will convince the goats of the Lord's existence. Asimov stayed an atheist even though he had to admit that Bethsaida (one of the cities/towns damned to destruction) could not be located despite showing up in Roman records.
     
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  6. Boss
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    Boss Take a Memo:

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    There are LOTS of things I've never seen but I know they exist. The human's sense of sight is a single, somewhat mediocre stimulation of nerves. We don't even do it better than many other species and we've already proven through technology that the universe consists of things much smaller than we are able to see with our naked eyes. So what is this obsession you have with being able to see something?

    There are MANY things we cannot explain. Origin of life, for one. But beyond that, many things regarding physics and quantum physics are yet to be fully understood. So there goes your complaint that not being able to understand something should mean we dismiss it. Quite the contrary, that's why Science was invented.

    Yes.. One existence of life exists and it's here on Earth. I'm not disputing that. The OP questions the existing of life elsewhere and I made the case for why I think that would be a near impossibility unless there is a Creator capable of orchestrating miraculous series of cosmic events to enable intelligent life to emerge. I base that on the fact that intelligent life on Earth only exists because of such a series of extraordinary events.

    You've not convinced me otherwise.
     
  7. Mousterian
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    Mousterian Gold Member

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    Our tiny minds cannot cope with numbers in the billions. We really have no concept of what can happen in a few billion years, or around 100 billion stars.
    Literally anything could have arisen in this immensity of time and locations.
    I think life will likely be fairly common throughout the universe, but, if it goes somewhat like the story on Earth, intelligent life will probably perish (by self-abuse), after a couple of million years. An instant, in the 15 billion years of the (current) universe.

    As to 'God', what was he thinking, to allow nuclear weapons? He must hate our guts...
    And I wonder why he waited 10 billion years between creating the stars, and creating Earth?
    And another 4.5 billion years to create Man?
     
  8. Boss
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    Again, intelligent life only happened here after a series of fortunate consequences. We don't know what sort of wild-ass miracle happened to originate life... that's a mystery unto itself... but the formation of "intelligent life" never happens without certain cosmic events that aren't "normal" in terms of nature itself. If nothing had eliminated the dinosaurs, mammals like humans could've never existed.
     
  9. Boss
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    What you are doing here is making the fatal mistake of assuming "God" is humanistic in nature. That "God" would rationalize the same as a human being. You see, I don't believe in such a God, so I agree... God certainly wouldn't rationalize as a human being and to take it a step further, God wouldn't be confined to the laws or principles of known physics either. God is a genderless Spiritual Energy... a thing, not a person.

    I don't really care to turn this thread into yet another "Atheists bash Christians" thread or a "Christians conduct Bible Study" thread. The forum is chock-full of such threads if that's what you're interested in debating. My thread is intended to philosophically explore the question of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, irrespective of religion. I've avoided religious arguments in my summation and I've tried to adhere to readily accepted scientific theories and data we have available.
     
  10. PredFan
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    PredFan Platinum Member

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    There is likely “life” all over the universe. However “intelligent life is extremely rare and it’s also very likely we are entirely alone.
     
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