Alaska's permafrost is thawing

[Dot Com]

How can there be any more melting if global warming stopped in 1998 and almost every bit of the data are falsified?

Good question

 

[mamooth]

I also wonder the Medieval Warm Period, which was supposedly global and toasty hot, had no effect on the permafrost. But then, that's only a problem for the deniers, as they're the only ones claiming the MWP was global.

A wonderful thing about climate science is how everything fits together. Each discipline reinforces the others. The poor deniers, OTOH, have to kludge together a mess of contradicting conspiracy theories.

 

[SSDD]

As bad as a threat to the infrastructure is, the threat of melting clathrates, or frozen methane deposits, is far worse. Methane converts to O2 and CO2 in the atmosphere, and melting permafrost all over the world is going to trigger Runaway Global Warming, where it won't matter if we stop ALL burning of fossil fuels over night, Global Warming will increase on a feedback loop and the oceans will rise 300 feet or more.

Its likely already too late as we passed the 400 ppm of CO2 a year ago and 350 ppm was thought to be the max at which catastrophe could be avoided.

Ignore the bugwits that deny Global Warming, every human being on Earth is going to get a detailed horrific education on it in the next few years.

The Holocene Optimum was a good deal warmer than it is today....did your runaway global warming happen then? Of course not....prior to the beginning of the present ice age....atmospheric CO2 was over 1000ppm and there was no ice at all in the arctic....did your runaway global warming happen then?... The idea of runaway global warming is one of the stupidest ideas ever out of the climate science community...the normal temperature over the course of earth;s history has been so warm that no ice existed at at least one of the poles....ice at both poles is abnormal on this planet...

 

[SSDD]

I also wonder the Medieval Warm Period, which was supposedly global and toasty hot, had no effect on the permafrost. But then, that's only a problem for the deniers, as they're the only ones claiming the MWP was global.

A wonderful thing about climate science is how everything fits together. Each discipline reinforces the others. The poor deniers, OTOH, have to kludge together a mess of contradicting conspiracy theories.

If it weren't global...why do you suppose it left such a strong signal in the vostok ice cores...taken in antarctica? A localized warm period surely wouldn't have left such a strong signal deep on the antarctic continent? It is you and yours who deny fact in favor of model output. And I tell you what hairball...you name a geographical region...and I will provide you with multiple peer reviewed, published studies that find that the MWP was warmer than the present.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How can there be any more melting if global warming stopped in 1998 and almost every bit of the data are falsified?

Yeah! All of a sudden ice melts in summer??!! I mean, who believes that?

 

[Dot Com]

I also wonder the Medieval Warm Period, which was supposedly global and toasty hot, had no effect on the permafrost. But then, that's only a problem for the deniers, as they're the only ones claiming the MWP was global.

A wonderful thing about climate science is how everything fits together. Each discipline reinforces the others. The poor deniers, OTOH, have to kludge together a mess of contradicting conspiracy theories.

That is apparent, yes.

 

[mamooth]

If it weren't global...why do you suppose it left such a strong signal in the vostok ice cores...taken in antarctica?

It didn't. That would be a denier myth.

Go on, amuse everyone by quoting some misinformation. Will it be Hockey Schtick? c3headlines? CO2 Science?

The ice core data ends at 1912, Deniers pretend the temperature record ends at 1912, but since then, temps have shot up way past anything seen before the previous interglacial in the ice cores. In the ice core record for the MWP itself, there's a lot of jittering, but as a whole, it's much cooler than the present.

And I tell you what hairball...you name a geographical region...and I will provide you with multiple peer reviewed, published studies that find that the MWP was warmer than the present.

You and others here have tried that big lie before, and gotten humiliated for it. I suggest you not come back for more.

We know how your cult propaganda there works. You point to a paper from CO2 Science that shows one short spike somewhere in the MWP. You point to another paper that shows one short spike at some completely different time in the MWP. And so on. Even though all those papers together contradict each other, and also illustrate how the MWP as a whole was definitely not global, you'll just declare the opposite, and count on people not looking at your papers and pointing out your deception.

If you wish, you may proceed.

 

[flacaltenn]

How can there be any more melting if global warming stopped in 1998 and almost every bit of the data are falsified?

SERIOUSLY? You know what non-linear means? Ah forget it..

Ice melts at 33degF.. Will CONTINUE to melt at ANY temp above freezing. Even if that temp. remains static.
Now children -- I'm gonna pump these balloons full of Hydrogen gas and explode them over your heads.

Googles ON !!!!!

 

[flacaltenn]

I also wonder the Medieval Warm Period, which was supposedly global and toasty hot, had no effect on the permafrost. But then, that's only a problem for the deniers, as they're the only ones claiming the MWP was global.

A wonderful thing about climate science is how everything fits together. Each discipline reinforces the others. The poor deniers, OTOH, have to kludge together a mess of contradicting conspiracy theories.

How do you know the MWP "had no effect" on the permafrost? Got pictures? We have plenty of historical records indicating massive melting in Greenland and the Aleutians and Siberia. WTF -- are u talking about?

They've found MWP signatures in proxies from EVERY continent on the planet. AND from shallow ocean sediments. About the only place they were NOT found were in the hockey stick studies.. The studies that PRETENDED to be Global thermometers accurate to a degree, but used less than a couple hundred samples to "ATTEMPT" to cover the entire planet..

 

[flacaltenn]

How can there be any more melting if global warming stopped in 1998 and almost every bit of the data are falsified?

Good question

 

[mamooth]

They've found MWP signatures in proxies from EVERY continent on the planet.

Again, no. A short temp spike at some single location in that period is not a "MWP proxy". The temperature going up for that whole period would be a MWP proxy. That's not there.

 

[flacaltenn]

They've found MWP signatures in proxies from EVERY continent on the planet.

Again, no. A short temp spike at some single location in that period is not a "MWP proxy". The temperature going up for that whole period would be a MWP proxy. That's not there.

Of course it is.. From every corner of the earth. Wherever there are reliable proxies. You've seen it before.
You just DENY it.. Because that's what you are...

 

[Dot Com]

They've found MWP signatures in proxies from EVERY continent on the planet.

Again, no. A short temp spike at some single location in that period is not a "MWP proxy". The temperature going up for that whole period would be a MWP proxy. That's not there.

 

[SSDD]

It didn't. That would be a denier myth.

Of course it did....the suggestion that there was no evidence of the MWP would be a warmer myth...warmers being the true deniers. Here are some peer reviewed, published studies stating that it was warmer in antarctica during the MWP.

Reference
Hemer, M.A. and Harris, P.T. 2003. Sediment core from beneath the Amery Ice Shelf, East Antarctica, suggests mid-Holocene ice-shelf retreat. Geology31: 127-130.

Description
Changes in the location of the edge of the Amery Ice Shelf were inferred from measurements of biogenic opal, absolute diatom abundance and the abundance of Fragilariopsis curta found in sediments retrieved from beneath the ice shelf at a point that is currently 80 km from land's edge. The MWP at ca. 750 14C yr BP was likely warmer than at any time during the CWP.


Reference
Hall, B.L., Koffman, T. and Denton, G.H. 2010. Reduced ice extent on the western Antarctic Peninsula at 700-970 cal. yr B.P. Geology38: 635-638.

Description
Hall et al. examined organic-rich sediments exposed by recent retreat of the Marr Ice Piedmont on western Anvers Island, where glaciers have been undergoing considerable retreat in response to the well-documented warming of the Antarctic Peninsula, obtaining moss and marine shells from natural settings within 26 meters of the present ice front, as well as both clumps of peat and shells from sediments reposing in a tunnel beneath the residual ice mass, several samples of which were radiocarbon-dated and the results converted to calendar years. This work revealed, in their words, that "peat from the overrun sediments dates between 707 ± 36 and 967 ± 47 cal. yr B.P.," which led them to conclude that "ice was at or behind its present position at ca. 700-970 cal. yr B.P," which they interpret as implying that "the present state of reduced ice on the western Antarctic Peninsula is not unprecedented," which means that this period was at least as warm as, or likely even warmer than, the peak warmth of the Current Warm Period.


Reference
Hall, B.L. 2007. Late-Holocene advance of the Collins Ice Cap, King George Island, South Shetland Islands. The Holocene17: 1253-1258.

Description
The author presents "radiocarbon and geomorphologic data that constrain [the] late-Holocene extent of the Collins Ice Cap on Fildes Peninsula (King George Island, South Shetland Islands: 62°10'51"S, 58°54'13"W)," based on field mapping of moraines and glacial deposits adjacent to the ice cap, as well as radiocarbon dates of associated organic materials. This work yielded, in Hall's words, "information on times in the past when climate in the South Shetland Islands must have been as warm as or warmer than today," with the specific period of this warmth indicated to stretch backwards in time from about AD 1300, which latter date would signify the end of this period of significant warmth, i.e., the Medieval Warm Period, with no date given as to its beginning.

Reference
Khim, B.-K., Yoon, H.I., Kang, C.Y. and Bahk, J.J. 2002. Unstable climate oscillations during the Late Holocene in the Eastern Bransfield Basin, Antarctic Peninsula. Quaternary Research58: 234-245.

Description
General climatic features were inferred from a study of the grain size, total organic carbon content, biogenic silica content and, most importantly, magnetic susceptibility of 210Pb- and 14C-dated sediments retrieved from the eastern Bransfield Basin (61°58.9'S, 55°57.4'W) just off the northern tip of the Antarctic Peninsula. Most of the Medieval Warm Period (AD 1050-1550) was warmer than the Current Warm Period.



Reference
Lu, Z., Rickaby, R.E.M., Kennedy, H., Kennedy, P., Pancost, R.D., Shaw, S., Lennie, A., Wellner, J. and Anderson, J.B. 2012. An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula. Earth and Planetary Science Letters325-326: 108-115.

Description
The authors write that ikaite "is a low temperature polymorph of calcium carbonate that is hydrated with water molecules contained in its crystal lattice," and they say that "ikaite crystals from marine sediments, if collected and maintained at low temperatures, preserve hydration waters and their intact crystal structures, both of which have the potential to provide isotopic constraints on past climate change," after which they report on what they describe as "the first downcore δ18O record of natural ikaite hydration waters and crystals collected from the Antarctic Peninsula (AP)," which they say were "suitable for reconstructing a low resolution ikaite record of the last 2000 years." This record, as they continue, "qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula." They also state that the "most recent crystals suggest a warming relative to the LIA in the last century, possibly as part of the regional recent rapid warming," and they importantly indicate that "this climatic signature is not yet as extreme in nature as the MWP," suggesting that even the dramatic recent warming of the AP may not yet have returned that region to the degree of warmth that was experienced there during the MWP.

Reference
Noon, P.E., Leng, M.J. and Jones, V.J. 2003. Oxygen-isotope (δ18O) evidence of Holocene hydrological changes at Signy Island, maritime Antarctica. The Holocene13: 251-263.

Description
Primarily summer climatic conditions were inferred from a δ18O record preserved in authigenic carbonate retrieved from sediments of Sombre Lake (60°43'S, 45°38'W) on Signy Island, maritime Antarctica. The Medieval Warm Period (AD 1130-1215) was warmer than the Current Warm Period.


Reference
Hall, B.L., Hoelzel, A.R., Baroni, C., Denton, G.H., Le Boeuf, B.J., Overturf, B. and Topf, A.L. 2006. Holocene elephant seal distribution implies warmer-than-present climate in the Ross Sea. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA103: 10,213-10,217.

Description
The authors collected skin and hair - and even some whole-body mummified remains - from raised-beach excavations at various locations along Antarctica's Victoria Land Coast (~77°30'S, 163°30'E) that they identified by both visual inspection and DNA analysis as coming from southern elephant seals (Mirounga leonina) and which they analyzed for age by means of radiocarbon dating. Results from fourteen different locations - which they describe as being "well south" of the seals' current "core sub-Antarctic breeding and molting grounds" - indicate that what they call the Seal Optimum began about 600 BC and ended about AD1400, "broadly contemporaneous with the onset of Little Ice Age climatic conditions in the Northern Hemisphere and with glacier advance near [Victoria Land's] Terra Nova Bay." These findings, in their words, indicate "warmer-than-present climate conditions" over a period of time that encompassed both the Medieval and Roman Warm Periods, as well as the intervening Dark Ages Cold Period, and that "if, as proposed in the literature, the [Ross] ice shelf survived this period, it would have been exposed to environments substantially [our italics] warmer than present."


Reference
Castellano, E., Becagli, S., Hansson, M., Hutterli, M., Petit, J.R., Rampino, M.R., Severi, M., Steffensen, J.P., Traversi, R. and Udisti, R. 2005. Holocene volcanic history as recorded in the sulfate stratigraphy of the European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctica Dome C (EDC96) ice core. Journal of Geophysical Research110: Do6114, doi:10.1029/2004JD005259.

Description
The authors analyzed sulfate ice core stratigraphy from Dome C, Antarctica (75.10°S, 123.40°E) to obtain a record of Holocene volcanic eruptions, which they compared with other volcanic indices throughout Antarctica. Sulfate depositional fluxes of individual volcanic events were found to vary greatly among the different sites, which variation was attributed to changes in atmospheric circulation driven by climate forcing; and the team of ten researchers concluded that "changes in the extent and intra-Antarctic variability of volcanic depositional fluxes may have been consequences of the establishment of a Medieval Warming-like period that lasted [from about 1000] until about 1500 AD."

There you go...8 peer reviewed published studies stating that during the MWP antarctica was warmer than the present....deny on garth...

 

[SSDD]

They've found MWP signatures in proxies from EVERY continent on the planet.

Again, no. A short temp spike at some single location in that period is not a "MWP proxy". The temperature going up for that whole period would be a MWP proxy. That's not there.

Sorry hairball...but again you are wrong....as I said...name a geographical region and I will happily provide you with peer reviewed, published studies stating that the MWP was warmer in that area than the present.

 

[flacaltenn]

Because I've showed the hairball DOZENS of these in the past. He gets just ONE this time..

http://rainbow.ldeo.columbia.edu/~alexeyk/Papers/Black_etal2007.pdf

Figure 4.. Off the coast of Venezuela...
I've got several dozen -- put MOST of them up here at one time or another..

 

[Muhammed]

The frost thaws every summer you fucking dumbasses.

 

[flacaltenn]

Just for the record.. To establish how selective the Mooth's memory is when it comes to being beaten to a pulp and then not remembering a thing..

One of the last times he got schooled. Presented about 12 of these.. All the cat could growl was "cherry-picking" ...
The LIA....is cooler better? | Page 4 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

But NOW -- he claims there's no evidence.. The cat's a total waste of kibble..
Don't feed the cat..

 

[flacaltenn]

New Temperature Reconstruction from Indo-Pacific Warm Pool

A new 2,000-year-long reconstruction of sea surface temperatures (SST) from the Indo-Pacific warm pool (IPWP) suggests that temperatures in the region may have been as warm during the Medieval Warm Period as they are today.

The IPWP is the largest body of warm water in the world, and, as a result, it is the largest source of heat and moisture to the global atmosphere, and an important component of the planet’s climate. Climate models suggest that global mean temperatures are particularly sensitive to sea surface temperatures in the IPWP. Understanding the past history of the region is of great importance for placing current warming trends in a global context.

The study is published in the journal Nature.

Temperature reconstructions suggest that the Northern Hemisphere may have been slightly cooler (by about 0.5 degrees Celsius) during the 'Medieval Warm Period' (~AD 800-1300) than during the late-20th century. However, these temperature reconstructions are based on, in large part, data compiled from high latitude or high altitude terrestrial proxy records, such as tree rings and ice cores, from the Northern Hemisphere (NH). Little pre-historical temperature data from tropical regions like the IPWP has been incorporated into these analyses, and the global extent of warm temperatures during this interval is unclear. As a result, conclusions regarding past global temperatures still have some uncertainties.

Oppo comments, “Although there are significant uncertainties with our own reconstruction, our work raises the idea that perhaps even the Northern Hemisphere temperature reconstructions need to be looked at more closely.”

[flacaltenn] ^^^^^ is a direct jab at Mann and the "hockey sticks" --- this is one brave and honest researcher...


Oppo cautions that the reconstruction contains some uncertainties. Information from three different cores was compiled in order to reconstruct a 2,000-year-long record. In addition sediment data have an inherent uncertainty associated with accurately dating samples




Shooooo cat.. Quit pooping in the thread....

 

[jc456]

How can there be any more melting if global warming stopped in 1998 and almost every bit of the data are falsified?

do you know how long it takes for permafrost to melt? Nope