Al-Qaida Calls for Holy War Against Israel

[dilloduck]

Gee, RWA can't protect himself?

More to the point, Israel has always been part of Western Civ-as have the Egyptians:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/lect/mod02.html

I'm sure he can--I just wasn't aware if he was he to do it or not. I think it's OK for me to debate a point even if the poster happens to be absent.

 

[Annie]

I'm sure he can--I just wasn't aware if he was he to do it or not. I think it's OK for me to debate a point even if the poster happens to be absent.

Well the point was that Israel is part of Western Civ.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Gee, RWA can't protect himself?

More to the point, Israel has always been part of Western Civ-

As characters in the christian bible, sure. But in a real, socially influential way, not so much.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Well the point was that Israel is part of Western Civ.

As much as a place can be considered an influence, maybe.

 

[Annie]

As much as a place can be considered an influence, maybe.

Actually, I think it had more to do with the 'people' and that weird idea of monotheism...

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Actually, I think it had more to do with the 'people' and that weird idea of monotheism...

But it was christianity that survived through the roman empire to become the religion of europe. They are not the same religion, regardless of the pope's lies as of late. This is a sad pathetic case, of "me-too-ism". It doesn't mean they should be rounded up. It just means they're not really that formative of the european tradition. Real judaism is much more like Islam in terms of it's theocratic elitist bent.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Actually, I think it had more to do with the 'people' and that weird idea of monotheism...

but the people got decimated by the romans and scattered around the globe, blending in in various ways to various degrees.

 

[dilloduck]

but the people got decimated by the romans and scattered around the globe, blending in in various ways to various degrees.

Jews may have helped shape the western world by being victimized ???

 

[Annie]

but the people got decimated by the romans and scattered around the globe, blending in in various ways to various degrees.

and that has 'what' to do with your now saying they are not Western? In Israel proper they are a democracy, have been since the beginning. The people value education and markets.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

and that has 'what' to do with your now saying they are not Western? In Israel proper they are a democracy, have been since the beginning. The people value education and markets.

I'm sorry Kathianne, Israel is just not part of the western world. Check a map.

 

[Gunny]

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Al-Qaida's No. 2 leader issued a worldwide call in a new videotape released Thursday for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq."

In the message broadcast by Al-Jazeera television, Ayman al-Zawahri, second in command to Osama bin Laden, said that al-Qaida now views "all the world as a battlefield open in front of us."

The Egyptian-born physician said that the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah and Palestinian militants would not be ended with "cease-fires or agreements."

"It is a Jihad for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahri said. "We will attack everywhere." Spain was controlled by Arab Muslims until they were driven from power at the turn of the 16th century.

He also said that Arab regimes were complicit in Israeli fighting against Hezbollah and the Palestinians. "My fellow Muslims, it is obvious that Arab and Islamic governments are not only impotent but also complicit ... and you are alone on the battlefield. Rely on God and fight your enemies ... make yourselves martyrs."

Al-Zawahri wore a gray robe and white turban in the video. A picture of the burning World Trade Center was on the wall behind him along with photos of two other militants. One appeared to be a bearded Mohammed Atta, the Egyptian ringleader of the Sept. 11 attacks. The other was Mohammed Atef, also known as Abu Hafs al-Masri, a former top lieutenant of bin Laden who was killed in a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan in November 2001.

The Arab satellite station did not transmit the entire tape, using instead selected quotes interspersed with commentary from an anchor.

An Al-Jazeera official speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to reporters said the full tape was about eight mintues long. The satellite channel aired only about half the message. It would not say how it received the tape.

"The shells and rockets ripping apart Muslim bodies in Gaza and Lebanon are not only Israeli (weapons), but are supplied by all the countries of the crusader coalition. Therefore, every participant in the crime will pay the price," al-Zawahri said.

"We cannot just watch these shells as they burn our brothers in Gaza and Lebanon and stand by idly, humiliated," he added.

The message was al-Zawahri's tenth this year. Bin Laden has issued five messages in a particularly active year of messages from the top al-Qaida leadership.

Al-Zawahri last appeared in a video posted on an Islamic Web site on the one-year anniversary of the train bombings in London. In the July 7 tape, he said two of the four suicide bombers in London had spent time in an al-Qaida training camp, preparing themselves for a suicide mission.

The two top al-Qaida leaders also paid tribute in June to the slain leader of their Iraq network, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in separate recordings. Many of their messages this year have dealt with current events in Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia.

Another new audio or video message from bin Laden had also expected in the past week on the fighting in Gaza and Lebanon, according to IntelCenter, a U.S.-based independent group that provides counterterrorism information to the U.S. government and media. However, no messages have appeared on Islamic Web sites to announce the release.

Al-Qaida's media production wing, Al-Sahab, had announced the al-Zawahri tape would be ready soon in a message earlier Thursday on an Islamic Web site.

Al-Zawahri said Muslims everywhere must rise up to attack "crusaders and Zionists" and support jihad (holy war) "until American troops are chased from Afghanistan and Iraq, paralyzed and impotent ... having paid the price for aggression against Muslims and support for Israel."

Israel began an offensive on Gaza days after Palestinian militants captured an Israeli soldier on June 25. It opened a second front in Lebanon after Hezbollah guerillas killed eight Israeli soldiers and captured two others on July 12.

Since fighting began between Israel and Hezbollah, at least 424 people have been killed in Lebanon, according to figures compiled from the Lebanese Health Ministry, the military and Hezbollah. Fifty-one Israelis have been killed, including 33 members of the military, according to Israeli authorities.

So, because the instigators want to fight a war on a religious basis, this automatically relegates both the US and Israel to an equal level? I think not. And I think those that view it in such a manner need to open up their thought processes a bit.

The jihadists have once again made a call for a war of terror. The rules they play by are simple ... there are none. They will murder every noncombatant they come across to achieve their goal of totalitarian rule through fear.

On the other hand, you have a parliamentary democracy wishing only to exist, and have proven at times that when their Nation is not under attack, they are more than capable of doing so.

However, their crime is existence. It doesn't freakin' matter how long the state of Israel has existed nor whose historical claim is better. What matter is it does exist, and the only way to appease these Islamic nutjobs is to annihilate it.

From a very simple perspective ... who is right and who is wrong? Not by Islamic standards, nor the New World Order standards .... the standards WE, the American people live by.

Who the aggressor is is about as hard to identify as the sun at noon. Who the moral-less pieces of murdering garbage are likewise as easy to identify.

So I don't see where there is ANY question as to "who's side is the US on." Last I heard, we were on the side of right, even though there are those that would cloud the issue with irrelevant BS.

And for all the antisemites out there who are THE very reason Israel exists because it it YOU who initially gave them a chunk of Palestine so they wouldn't come infect your precious society with their all-evil, Zionisim, all I can say is wake the fuck up.

 

[Annie]

I'm sorry Kathianne, Israel is just not part of the western world. Check a map.

Sorry RWA, Western Civilization is based upon a shared history and philosophy, including religious beliefs, not a map. Also not Jason's definition/vision of terminology.

 

[Gunny]

I'm sorry Kathianne, Israel is just not part of the western world. Check a map.

Israeli society and government is part of Western ideology, regardless geographical location.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Israeli society and government is part of Western ideology, regardless geographical location.

I disagree. I think it's ethnic elitism makes it more of dark ages construct.

 

[dilloduck]

Israeli society and government is part of Western ideology, regardless geographical location.

Since when--1947?

 

[Annie]

They signify the esteem jews hold for america, wanting us to be overrun with mexicans and dependant upon totalitarians. You were wondering about their gratitude.

Actually, though I wonder that most American Jews support the open borders the way you espouse, they are fundamentally seperate from the Jews in Israel. You are the one acting as they are one.

Truth is, a couple days ago there were many American Jewish Liberals marching against Israeli actions on Lebanon. Then again, if you listen to what going on with the Egyptians, Jordanians, and Saudis, you would see that they are currently backing the Israeli action over the UN. Go figure.

 

[Gunny]

I disagree. I think it's ethnic elitism makes it more of dark ages construct.

Israel's government is a parliamentary democracy. That is based in the ideals that make up most Western nations. The original Israeli's were mostly European and took their ideology with them, not to mention Britain played a big part in the forming of their nation.

You continue to dredge up reasoning attempting to create an ever-widening chasm between the West -- teh US in particular -- and Israel. If you study the history of the US, you will find that when attacked, we have responded in the same manner Israel has to defend ourselves.

 

[Gunny]

Since when--1947?

And what was it before that? Where did most of the Jews that make up Israel come from? Europe.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Actually, though I wonder that most American Jews support the open borders the way you espouse, they are fundamentally seperate from the Jews in Israel. You are the one acting as they are one.

Truth is, a couple days ago there were many American Jewish Liberals marching against Israeli actions on Lebanon. Then again, if you listen to what going on with the Egyptians, Jordanians, and Saudis, you would see that they are currently backing the Israeli action over the UN. Go figure.

William joyce posted the votes in congress re: the border broken down by religion. It leaves no room for wonderment.

So who contributes to the Israel Lobby? Any american jews you think?

RE: the muslim nations that allegedly back israel: talk is oh so cheap, isn't it.

Of course, maybe it's some shia, sunni thing.

 

[Annie]

William joyce posted the votes in congress re: the border broken down by religion. It leaves no room for wonderment.

So who contributes to the Israel Lobby? Any american jews you think?

RE: the muslim nations that allegedly back israel: talk is oh so cheap, isn't it.

Of course, maybe it's some shia, sunni thing.

Again, American Jews vis a vis Israeli Jews, make that Israeli citizens, excepting some of the Islamic Israelis.