Al-Qaida Calls for Holy War Against Israel

[rtwngAvngr]

Again, American Jews vis a vis Israeli Jews, make that Israeli citizens, excepting some of the Islamic Israelis.

You win. There's no way I can refute that.

 

[dilloduck]

And what was it before that? Where did most of the Jews that make up Israel come from? Europe.

Heck--convince me---how did Jews help shape and influence the West?

 

[Annie]

Heck--convince me---how did Jews help shape and influence the West?

Are you taking lessons? Read the thread. Gunny has already stated reasons, as have I.

 

[Gunny]

Heck--convince me---how did Jews help shape and influence the West?

I don't recall that I made any such statement. Did I? That has nothing to do with Israeli's posessing Western ideology.

 

[Gunny]

And none of this addresses the issue of who is right and who is wrong ... who is good and who is evil. Nothing hard, complicated, nor conspratorial about it. It's a simple equation with obvious answers.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Are you taking lessons? Read the thread. Gunny has already stated reasons, as have I.

Israel is an attempt to establish a quasi western state, but that's not the same as saying that jews have had a large impact on Western Cultural. Basically the history has been very volatile, with them being kicked out of nearly every nation, usually after people find out what's in the talmud, and then some kings allowing them back in to be money lenders, and wanting part of their usury trade.

 

[Annie]

I don't recall that I made any such statement. Did I? That has nothing to do with Israeli's posessing Western ideology.

I did, the biggest being monotheism and self-determination, ie. free will.

That Israel has Western Civilization at its roots from inception, as clear, (I'm speaking of the State of Israel.)

 

[dilloduck]

I don't recall that I made any such statement. Did I? That has nothing to do with Israeli's posessing Western ideology.

Never mind--this subject has gotten a bit obtuse anyway.

 

[Annie]

Israel is an attempt to establish a quasi western state, but that's not the same as saying that jews have had a large impact on Western Cultural. Basically the history has been very volatile, with them being kicked out of nearly every nation, usually after people find out what's in the talmud, and then some kings allowing them back in to be money lenders, and wanting part of their usury trade.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460674&postcount=67

 

[rtwngAvngr]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460674&postcount=67

You evidently don't recall jesus's many lectures regarding the perversion of the law and their elitism. Free will? They believe in a totalitarian global theocracy.

THis is TRUE kathianne. Why won't you just go read their websites. These are not hate sites. These are THEIR sites.

http://www.moshiach.net

Read the noahide laws. This is REAL. I'm not making it up.

 

[Annie]

You evidently don't recall jesus's many lectures regarding the perversion of the law and their elitism. Free will? They believe in a totalitarian global theocracy.

THis is TRUE kathianne. Why won't you just go read their websites. These are not hate sites. These are THEIR sites.

http://www.moshiach.net

Read the noahide laws. This is REAL. I'm not making it up.

I'm not going to argue that stuff with you RWA. YOU asked why they are part of Western Civ. I explained. Now you might say that there were later things or many things you disagree with, that doesn't change their contributions. Any more than those that gave us the calendar or algebra or astronomy insights contributed to our base of knowledge.

 

[Gunny]

You evidently don't recall jesus's many lectures regarding the perversion of the law and their elitism. Free will? They believe in a totalitarian global theocracy.

THis is TRUE kathianne. Why won't you just go read their websites. These are not hate sites. These are THEIR sites.

http://www.moshiach.net

Read the noahide laws. This is REAL. I'm not making it up.

So do the extremists in EVERY religion. The worst at the moment being the Islamic ones.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'm not going to argue that stuff with you RWA. YOU asked why they are part of Western Civ. I explained. Now you might say that there were later things or many things you disagree with, that doesn't change their contributions. Any more than those that gave us the calendar or algebra or astronomy insights contributed to our base of knowledge.

But you simply say their contribution is self determination. I think that's wrong, considering they're actually for global theocracy. Their embrace of "secularism" was only ever intended as a temporary measure to weaken christian society, and to convince the west their motive were pure and they could be trusted. Of course you don't want to argue that stuf, because it reveals the true nature of their religion, which is totalitarian and theocratic, just like the other major religion from that part of the world. Mohammed learned from the best. Why can't you just face the truth?

 

[Gunny]

But you simply say their contribution is self determination. I think that's wrong, considering they're actually for global theocracy. Their embrace of "secularism" was only ever intended as a temporary measure to weaken christian society, and to convince the west their motive were pure and they could be trusted. Of course you don't want to argue that stuf, because it reveals the true nature of their religion, which is totalitarian and theocratic, just like the other major religion from that part of the world. Mohammed learned from the best. Why can't you just face the truth?

Where do you get this stuff? Jerry Falwell and Osama bin Laden believe the same. What percent of their respective religions do they represent? Roughly 10%. I doubt there's some special, higher number for Jews.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Where do you get this stuff? Jerry Falwell and Osama bin Laden believe the same. What percent of their respective religions do they represent? Roughly 10%. I doubt there's some special, higher number for Jews.

Hey, if you doubt it it must not be. I'm satisfied. There's no source like uninformed speculation.

 

[Gunny]

Hey, if you doubt it it must not be. I'm satisfied. There's no source like uninformed speculation.

There is no uninformed speculation. If you choose to ignore the facts because they don't suit your conspiracy theory, power to you.

The fact is, you single out ONE religion as being more dangerous/worse than any other, when the danger in all religions lay within an extremist minority ... Jews being no exception.

Hell, Mormons are FAR more clannish than any Jew I ever met. Then there are Jehovah's Witnesses .... only THEY get to go to Heaven. The list goes on and on.

I was raised Southern Baptist. Because I drink, smoke and dance I'm sure I'm screwed.

 

[Annie]

But you simply say their contribution is self determination. I think that's wrong, considering they're actually for global theocracy. Their embrace of "secularism" was only ever intended as a temporary measure to weaken christian society, and to convince the west their motive were pure and they could be trusted. Of course you don't want to argue that stuf, because it reveals the true nature of their religion, which is totalitarian and theocratic, just like the other major religion from that part of the world. Mohammed learned from the best. Why can't you just face the truth?

I said, not so 'simply':

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460617&postcount=45

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460627&postcount=49

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460638&postcount=52

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460648&postcount=56

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460659&postcount=60

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460674&postcount=67

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=460689&postcount=71

 

[ScreamingEagle]

You evidently don't recall jesus's many lectures regarding the perversion of the law and their elitism. Free will? They believe in a totalitarian global theocracy.

THis is TRUE kathianne. Why won't you just go read their websites. These are not hate sites. These are THEIR sites.

http://www.moshiach.net

Read the noahide laws. This is REAL. I'm not making it up.

Well, if they're that scary, all the more reason to let them have their own country, keep them basically in one place, right? :cof:

What has always puzzled me is why so many jews in America continue to remain lefties. As the Democrats continue to move further and further to the left, it is very apparent that they do not support Israel. Here's a recent article that helps to answer why:

When Will They Ever Learn...
Why do so many American Jews hate the president who stands by Israel?
by David Gelernter
7/31/2006

FOR YEARS I have watched the Palestinians do absurdly self-destructive things, and have never understood them until now. But watching the Bush administration stoutly defend Israel this week against the background of an American Jewish population that vocally (often sneeringly) dislikes him and his administration, and consistently votes by massive majorities for his Democratic opponents, I start to understand the Palestinians just a little.

American Jews are not Palestinians and have not sunk to the level of supporting terrorist murderers. But their behavior is a lesson in self-destructive nihilism that could teach even the Palestinians a thing or two. U.S. Jews remain fervent supporters of an American left that is increasingly unable or unwilling to say why Israel must exist. Of course American Jews, like all Americans, define their interests in terms of many issues and not just one. But there is a reason why so many used to put Israel's safety near the top of their lists: Israel has been caught in a life-or-death struggle since birth; American support is critical to her survival.

True: Jewish support for President Bush moved upward in the 2004 election relative to the 2000 figures. It moved all the way up to 25 percent. During the five presidential elections of the 1970s and '80s, American Jews averaged 35 percent support for the Republican candidate, so 25 percent for Bush in '04 was not exactly a landslide move to the GOP. But even this pint-sized move seems to have petered out earlier this year. Jack Abramoff
does not make an attractive spokesman for Jewish Republicans. The fall of Tom DeLay silenced one of the best friends Israel ever had in American politics, and one of the most effective symbols of Republican support for Israel. So the pattern of the '90s is likely to continue: American Jews move left as the left moves away from Israel.

Merely look at American universities and their disastrous left-wing tilt (many are close to capsizing), and check out recent studies that document a startling deterioration in knowledge of and sympathy for Israel on U.S. college campuses, and you will learn plenty about the American left and its increasingly anti-Israel tendencies.

When you vote for a presidential candidate, you are voting to award jobs to a few of his supporters, and influence to vast numbers of them. Most Democratic politicians speak up for Israel. But grassroots Demo crats are increasingly dangerous to the Jewish state (not to mention the American state). Still, American Jews vote for (and bankroll!) Democrats. And each time they repeat this performance, the risk is greater.

Will they risk it again in 2008? Will the Arabs force Israel into yet another round of catastrophic, self-destructive bloodletting after this round is over? In both cases, probably yes.

American Jews (especially the intellectual leadership) have a tragic history of acting against their own professed interests. In the years before Pearl Harbor, U.S. intellectuals on the whole (especially New York intellectuals) vehemently opposed American entry alongside Britain into the war against Nazi Germany. Of course many New York intellectuals were not Jews, and many American Jews didn't care for New York intellectuals. But journals like Partisan Review helped shape the cultural climate--and were fiercely antiwar until Pearl Harbor--and were shaped, themselves, by Jewish intellectuals. Leading Jewish intellectuals signed a Partisan Review statement explaining that "Our entry into the war, under the slogan of 'Stop Hitler!' would actually result in the immediate introduction of totalitarianism over here. . . . The American masses can best help [the German people] by fighting at home to keep their own liberties."

Before Pearl Harbor, many prominent (non-intellectual) U.S. Jews failed to support war against Hitler because they were scared--understandably if unforgivably. Anti-Semitism was still real in this country, Jewish influence in America was brand new, and Jews did not want to be blamed for involving their country in another world war. Which makes the case of Partisan Review and other intellectual organs so fascinating. In some respects, left-wing Jewish intellectuals were admirably fearless. Most were Marxists and didn't give a damn what the country thought of them. Nonetheless: The Partisan Review crowd did not speak up for war against Hitler. Just the opposite.

Read that ancient Partisan Review statement and the truth hits home. The problem with the American Jewish left, from 1940 through 2006, is not malevolence but naiveté--naiveté so great, it is the next best thing to stupidity. Naiveté is an occupational hazard among all intellectuals. But American Jews at large respect their intellectuals as much as any group does, and more than most--and way too much for common sense.

cont.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/480izkdv.asp?pg=2

 

[Annie]

Well, if they're that scary, all the more reason to let them have their own country, keep them basically in one place, right? :cof:

What has always puzzled me is why so many jews in America continue to remain lefties. As the Democrats continue to move further and further to the left, it is very apparent that they do not support Israel. Here's a recent article that helps to answer why:

Thanks for making the point I was on the difference between Israelis and American Jews.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

There is no uninformed speculation. If you choose to ignore the facts because they don't suit your conspiracy theory, power to you.

The fact is, you single out ONE religion as being more dangerous/worse than any other, when the danger in all religions lay within an extremist minority ... Jews being no exception.

Hell, Mormons are FAR more clannish than any Jew I ever met.

Go research noahidism. Go research the talmud. Go research maimonides. I'm not saying it's worse than any other. I'm saying a large part of their religion revolves around a time in the future when they will control the whole world, unified under one set of religious laws, and enforced by religious courts headed by the sanhedrin in jerusalem. Their religion is just as theocratic as Islam, but they're just using stealthier methods. Why won't you go read? Your willful ignorance is beginning to disappoint me.