Affordable Care Act saving taxpayer money at record pace

[Bfgrn]

I always love when a progressive trots out the trope about what the rest of the world takes for granted. I want a free market, and no one has ever presented any type of proof it is a bad idea. They keep pointing to our current system of corny capitalism and government support of favored people and argue that it proves a free market doesn't work. Gotta say, I never understood that, do you think you can explain it?

There is no explaining to a 'Marketist' anymore than explaining to a Marxist. Both taken to the level of religion are dangerous.

I have offered this to 'Marketists' before. And guess what; NONE of them will even listen to this interview with a former executive VP at CIGNA.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients | PBS

Marketists? Is that like communist? I actually heard that interview before, what is it you think I am supposed to here? Because what it tells me is that crony capitalism is destroying health care, which is what I said in the first place.

Really??? Then explain 'medical loss ratio' that Potter talks about? Then, explain how crony capitalism is destroying health care? And how government is the cause?

Then explain why all but a handful of capitalist countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment?

And why the bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – who all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship have the most expensive and worst performing health care systems?

And your 'people from other countries come to the US for treatment' argument has been totally debunked.

 

[Synthaholic]

ObamaCare Causes Health Insurance Premiums to Rise

Health insurance costs continue to rise as President Obama’s healthcare overhaul begins to affect Americans’ insurance premiums, according to a study by the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET). Leaders in health policy analysis and communication, Kaiser and HRET found that annual family insurance premiums have spiked this year at a rate three times higher than in 2010, significantly outpacing wage increases and general inflation.

--
​

That's Kaiser of Kaiser Permanente fame and origins - the huge insurance/managed healthcare conglomerate.

Surprise, surprise!

 

[Synthaholic]

Cool! So my taxes are going down? Great!

What?

Oh yeah..what was I thinking.

Your income taxes have gone down under Obama.

If you say they went up, you're a liar.

 

[Political Junky]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM5Ep9fS7Z0]Robert Reich - 7 Lies - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Synthaholic]

Way back before government was involved in healthcare, there was zero government healthcare fraud.
Just saying.

That's a true statement alan1, and far be it from me to call you an idiot for making it, but consider-------in 1960 life expectancy in the United States was 69.7 years, along came gov't funded healthcare, and-------voila-------in 2010 life expectancy in the United States has increased to 78.7 years. IOW's, going back to a time when all health insurance was provided by private corporations is a death sentence for the average citizen of the United States-------no wonder, Americans get really-really pissed when Republicans start talking about privatizing Medicare.

The Flintstones cartoon was first shown in 1960, and----voila----in 2010 life expectancy in the United States has increased to 78.7 years. IOW's, the Flintstones cartoon is just as effective as government funded healthcare according to your logic.

^ This is considered "Rightwing Logic".

 

[hortysir]

Really??? Then explain 'medical loss ratio' that Potter talks about? Then, explain how crony capitalism is destroying health care? And how government is the cause?

Then explain why all but a handful of capitalist countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment?

And why the bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – who all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship have the most expensive and worst performing health care systems?

And your 'people from other countries come to the US for treatment' argument has been totally debunked.

Sorry, but you're going to have to back that claim up with something besides your word.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There is no explaining to a 'Marketist' anymore than explaining to a Marxist. Both taken to the level of religion are dangerous.

I have offered this to 'Marketists' before. And guess what; NONE of them will even listen to this interview with a former executive VP at CIGNA.

Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients | PBS

Marketists? Is that like communist? I actually heard that interview before, what is it you think I am supposed to here? Because what it tells me is that crony capitalism is destroying health care, which is what I said in the first place.

Really??? Then explain 'medical loss ratio' that Potter talks about? Then, explain how crony capitalism is destroying health care? And how government is the cause?

Then explain why all but a handful of capitalist countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment?

And why the bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – who all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship have the most expensive and worst performing health care systems?

And your 'people from other countries come to the US for treatment' argument has been totally debunked.

I have a better idea, instead of me explaining why the sky is blue, why don't you explain why you support the government forcong you to buy insurance from the insurance companies that are, according to you, ruining health care. That is the government supporting some companies at the expense of other companies, and is, by definition, crony capitalism.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Cool! So my taxes are going down? Great!

What?

Oh yeah..what was I thinking.

Your income taxes have gone down under Obama.

If you say they went up, you're a liar.

Are you saying that no one is paying more income taxes now than when Bush was president? If so, you are a fool.

 

[Greenbeard]

ObamaCare Causes Health Insurance Premiums to Rise

Health insurance costs continue to rise as President Obama’s healthcare overhaul begins to affect Americans’ insurance premiums, according to a study by the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET). Leaders in health policy analysis and communication, Kaiser and HRET found that annual family insurance premiums have spiked this year at a rate three times higher than in 2010, significantly outpacing wage increases and general inflation.

--
​

That's Kaiser of Kaiser Permanente fame and origins - the huge insurance/managed healthcare conglomerate.

Surprise, surprise!

KFF is solid. They do good work and they haven't been associated with Kaiser Permanente for many, many years (not that KP is evil, anyway).

 

[Bfgrn]

Really??? Then explain 'medical loss ratio' that Potter talks about? Then, explain how crony capitalism is destroying health care? And how government is the cause?

Then explain why all but a handful of capitalist countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment?

And why the bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – who all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship have the most expensive and worst performing health care systems?

And your 'people from other countries come to the US for treatment' argument has been totally debunked.

Sorry, but you're going to have to back that claim up with something besides your word.

America’s Health Care System at the Bottom of the Heap

 

[Bfgrn]

Marketists? Is that like communist? I actually heard that interview before, what is it you think I am supposed to here? Because what it tells me is that crony capitalism is destroying health care, which is what I said in the first place.

Really??? Then explain 'medical loss ratio' that Potter talks about? Then, explain how crony capitalism is destroying health care? And how government is the cause?

Then explain why all but a handful of capitalist countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment?

And why the bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – who all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship have the most expensive and worst performing health care systems?

And your 'people from other countries come to the US for treatment' argument has been totally debunked.

I have a better idea, instead of me explaining why the sky is blue, why don't you explain why you support the government forcong you to buy insurance from the insurance companies that are, according to you, ruining health care. That is the government supporting some companies at the expense of other companies, and is, by definition, crony capitalism.

So you really didn't listen to the interview. If you don't understand medical loss ratio, then you don't understand how Wall Street controls the health care industry.

The answer to your question is simple...what we got IS the 'free market' version of reform. The individual mandate is a conservative idea that is essential to a 'free market' health care system, unless you want to give up no denial because of pre-existing conditions, portability and health care security.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Really??? Then explain 'medical loss ratio' that Potter talks about? Then, explain how crony capitalism is destroying health care? And how government is the cause?

Then explain why all but a handful of capitalist countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment?

And why the bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – who all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship have the most expensive and worst performing health care systems?

And your 'people from other countries come to the US for treatment' argument has been totally debunked.

I have a better idea, instead of me explaining why the sky is blue, why don't you explain why you support the government forcong you to buy insurance from the insurance companies that are, according to you, ruining health care. That is the government supporting some companies at the expense of other companies, and is, by definition, crony capitalism.

So you really didn't listen to the interview. If you don't understand medical loss ratio, then you don't understand how Wall Street controls the health care industry.

The answer to your question is simple...what we got IS the 'free market' version of reform. The individual mandate is a conservative idea that is essential to a 'free market' health care system, unless you want to give up no denial because of pre-existing conditions, portability and health care security.

Medical loss ratio is set by Obamacare, not Wall Street. Want to try again?

 

[hortysir]

Really??? Then explain 'medical loss ratio' that Potter talks about? Then, explain how crony capitalism is destroying health care? And how government is the cause?

Then explain why all but a handful of capitalist countries all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment?

And why the bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – who all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship have the most expensive and worst performing health care systems?

And your 'people from other countries come to the US for treatment' argument has been totally debunked.

Sorry, but you're going to have to back that claim up with something besides your word.

America’s Health Care System at the Bottom of the Heap

Ok, I have that link open, as well as the UK article it cited, plus the actual .pdf of the study.
I'm gonna be here a while.


But I have one question to get this discussion started;

Citing the UK article:

The paper says the US suffers from a "relatively huge bureaucratic burden needed to monitor the costs, behaviour and risks of customers, as well as the immense legal costs required to control payment".

Do you honestly believe that further involvement by our government would improve on that problem??

 

[Bfgrn]

I have a better idea, instead of me explaining why the sky is blue, why don't you explain why you support the government forcong you to buy insurance from the insurance companies that are, according to you, ruining health care. That is the government supporting some companies at the expense of other companies, and is, by definition, crony capitalism.

So you really didn't listen to the interview. If you don't understand medical loss ratio, then you don't understand how Wall Street controls the health care industry.

The answer to your question is simple...what we got IS the 'free market' version of reform. The individual mandate is a conservative idea that is essential to a 'free market' health care system, unless you want to give up no denial because of pre-existing conditions, portability and health care security.

Medical loss ratio is set by Obamacare, not Wall Street. Want to try again?

True, without provisions in the Affordable Healthcare Act, Wall Street would be allowed to continue their death panels. That is one of the best provisions of the law.

Medical Loss Ratio: Getting Your Money's Worth on Health Insurance

Today, many insurance companies spend a substantial portion of consumers’ premium dollars on administrative costs and profits, including executive salaries, overhead, and marketing. Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, consumers will receive more value for their premium dollar because insurance companies will be required to spend 80 to 85 percent of premium dollars on medical care and health care quality improvement, rather than on administrative costs, starting in 2011. If they don’t, the insurance companies will be required to provide a rebate to their customers starting in 2012.

On November 22, 2010, the Obama Administration issued a regulation implementing this policy, known as the “medical loss ratio” provision of the Affordable Care Act. This regulation will make the insurance marketplace more transparent and make it easier for consumers to purchase plans that provide better value for their money.

Over 20 percent of consumers who purchase coverage in the individual market today are in plans that spend more than 30 cents of every premium dollar on administrative costs. An additional 25 percent of consumers in this market are in plans that spend between 25 and 30 cents of every premium dollar on administrative costs. And in some extreme cases, insurance plans spend more than 50 percent of every premium dollar on administrative costs. This regulation will help consumers get good value for their health insurance premium dollar.

In 2011, the new rules will protect up to 74.8 million insured Americans, and estimates indicate that up to 9 million Americans could be eligible for rebates starting in 2012 worth up to $1.4 billion. Average rebates per person could total $164 in the individual market. Important details regarding the new regulation are included below.

 

[Bfgrn]

Sorry, but you're going to have to back that claim up with something besides your word.

America’s Health Care System at the Bottom of the Heap

Ok, I have that link open, as well as the UK article it cited, plus the actual .pdf of the study.
I'm gonna be here a while.


But I have one question to get this discussion started;

Citing the UK article:

The paper says the US suffers from a "relatively huge bureaucratic burden needed to monitor the costs, behaviour and risks of customers, as well as the immense legal costs required to control payment".

Do you honestly believe that further involvement by our government would improve on that problem??

There is no reason it can't be done. I am not of the mind that government can't do anything right. It can, and it has.

Doctors say VA care is a model of efficiency

The Best Care Anywhere

Ten years ago, veterans hospitals were dangerous, dirty, and scandal-ridden. Today, they're producing the highest quality care in the country. Their turnaround points the way toward solving America's health-care crisis.

The Health Care System for Veterans: An Interim Report CBO Report

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So you really didn't listen to the interview. If you don't understand medical loss ratio, then you don't understand how Wall Street controls the health care industry.

The answer to your question is simple...what we got IS the 'free market' version of reform. The individual mandate is a conservative idea that is essential to a 'free market' health care system, unless you want to give up no denial because of pre-existing conditions, portability and health care security.

Medical loss ratio is set by Obamacare, not Wall Street. Want to try again?

True, without provisions in the Affordable Healthcare Act, Wall Street would be allowed to continue their death panels. That is one of the best provisions of the law.

Medical Loss Ratio: Getting Your Money's Worth on Health Insurance

Today, many insurance companies spend a substantial portion of consumers’ premium dollars on administrative costs and profits, including executive salaries, overhead, and marketing. Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, consumers will receive more value for their premium dollar because insurance companies will be required to spend 80 to 85 percent of premium dollars on medical care and health care quality improvement, rather than on administrative costs, starting in 2011. If they don’t, the insurance companies will be required to provide a rebate to their customers starting in 2012.

On November 22, 2010, the Obama Administration issued a regulation implementing this policy, known as the “medical loss ratio” provision of the Affordable Care Act. This regulation will make the insurance marketplace more transparent and make it easier for consumers to purchase plans that provide better value for their money.

Over 20 percent of consumers who purchase coverage in the individual market today are in plans that spend more than 30 cents of every premium dollar on administrative costs. An additional 25 percent of consumers in this market are in plans that spend between 25 and 30 cents of every premium dollar on administrative costs. And in some extreme cases, insurance plans spend more than 50 percent of every premium dollar on administrative costs. This regulation will help consumers get good value for their health insurance premium dollar.

In 2011, the new rules will protect up to 74.8 million insured Americans, and estimates indicate that up to 9 million Americans could be eligible for rebates starting in 2012 worth up to $1.4 billion. Average rebates per person could total $164 in the individual market. Important details regarding the new regulation are included below.

You agree with me, crony capitalism is the problem. Glad we got that settled. Now all we have to do is loosen up the government controls and let the market work to reduce costs.

 

[Bfgrn]

Medical loss ratio is set by Obamacare, not Wall Street. Want to try again?

True, without provisions in the Affordable Healthcare Act, Wall Street would be allowed to continue their death panels. That is one of the best provisions of the law.

Medical Loss Ratio: Getting Your Money's Worth on Health Insurance

Today, many insurance companies spend a substantial portion of consumers’ premium dollars on administrative costs and profits, including executive salaries, overhead, and marketing. Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, consumers will receive more value for their premium dollar because insurance companies will be required to spend 80 to 85 percent of premium dollars on medical care and health care quality improvement, rather than on administrative costs, starting in 2011. If they don’t, the insurance companies will be required to provide a rebate to their customers starting in 2012.

On November 22, 2010, the Obama Administration issued a regulation implementing this policy, known as the “medical loss ratio” provision of the Affordable Care Act. This regulation will make the insurance marketplace more transparent and make it easier for consumers to purchase plans that provide better value for their money.

Over 20 percent of consumers who purchase coverage in the individual market today are in plans that spend more than 30 cents of every premium dollar on administrative costs. An additional 25 percent of consumers in this market are in plans that spend between 25 and 30 cents of every premium dollar on administrative costs. And in some extreme cases, insurance plans spend more than 50 percent of every premium dollar on administrative costs. This regulation will help consumers get good value for their health insurance premium dollar.

In 2011, the new rules will protect up to 74.8 million insured Americans, and estimates indicate that up to 9 million Americans could be eligible for rebates starting in 2012 worth up to $1.4 billion. Average rebates per person could total $164 in the individual market. Important details regarding the new regulation are included below.

You agree with me, crony capitalism is the problem. Glad we got that settled. Now all we have to do is loosen up the government controls and let the market work to reduce costs.

Oh, we agree you deduced? How so? So, you want the government to turn health care back over to Wall Street, so stockholders can put their profits before patients, who are STAKEholders in our health care system. The 'market' has/had TOO much control withOUT government regulation and oversight.

Now, do we still agree???

 

[Quantum Windbag]

True, without provisions in the Affordable Healthcare Act, Wall Street would be allowed to continue their death panels. That is one of the best provisions of the law.

Medical Loss Ratio: Getting Your Money's Worth on Health Insurance

Today, many insurance companies spend a substantial portion of consumers’ premium dollars on administrative costs and profits, including executive salaries, overhead, and marketing. Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, consumers will receive more value for their premium dollar because insurance companies will be required to spend 80 to 85 percent of premium dollars on medical care and health care quality improvement, rather than on administrative costs, starting in 2011. If they don’t, the insurance companies will be required to provide a rebate to their customers starting in 2012.

On November 22, 2010, the Obama Administration issued a regulation implementing this policy, known as the “medical loss ratio” provision of the Affordable Care Act. This regulation will make the insurance marketplace more transparent and make it easier for consumers to purchase plans that provide better value for their money.

Over 20 percent of consumers who purchase coverage in the individual market today are in plans that spend more than 30 cents of every premium dollar on administrative costs. An additional 25 percent of consumers in this market are in plans that spend between 25 and 30 cents of every premium dollar on administrative costs. And in some extreme cases, insurance plans spend more than 50 percent of every premium dollar on administrative costs. This regulation will help consumers get good value for their health insurance premium dollar.

In 2011, the new rules will protect up to 74.8 million insured Americans, and estimates indicate that up to 9 million Americans could be eligible for rebates starting in 2012 worth up to $1.4 billion. Average rebates per person could total $164 in the individual market. Important details regarding the new regulation are included below.

You agree with me, crony capitalism is the problem. Glad we got that settled. Now all we have to do is loosen up the government controls and let the market work to reduce costs.

Oh, we agree you deduced? How so? So, you want the government to turn health care back over to Wall Street, so stockholders can put their profits before patients, who are STAKEholders in our health care system. The 'market' has/had TOO much control withOUT government regulation and oversight.

Now, do we still agree???

Hey, genius, please explain why you think market means Wall Street. Is it because you still do not understand the difference between crony capitalism and the free market?

 

[Bfgrn]

You agree with me, crony capitalism is the problem. Glad we got that settled. Now all we have to do is loosen up the government controls and let the market work to reduce costs.

Oh, we agree you deduced? How so? So, you want the government to turn health care back over to Wall Street, so stockholders can put their profits before patients, who are STAKEholders in our health care system. The 'market' has/had TOO much control withOUT government regulation and oversight.

Now, do we still agree???

Hey, genius, please explain why you think market means Wall Street. Is it because you still do not understand the difference between crony capitalism and the free market?

It's because you didn't watch the fucking interview with a 15 year executive with CIGNA who identified WALL STREET. Instead you use idiotic catch phrases like 'crony capitalism' which doesn't apply to the problem. It all has to do with your dogmatic ignorance. You have found 'religion'...you're are a Marketist. No different than a Marxist.

Here is an apology by the same CIGNA executive VP. READ IT, and educate yourself. Shed your fucking ignorance. Become a thinking person, not a fucking parrot!

Wendell Potter: Rally Against Wall Street's Health Care Takeover

I would like to begin by apologizing to all of you for the role I played 15 years ago in cheating you out of a reformed health care system. Had it not been for greedy insurance companies and other special interests, and their army of lobbyists and spin-doctors like I used to be, we wouldn't be here today.

I'm ashamed that I let myself get caught up in deceitful and dishonest PR campaigns that worked so well, hundreds of thousands of our citizens have died, and millions of others have lost their homes and been forced into bankruptcy, so that a very few corporate executives and their Wall Street masters could become obscenely rich.

But it was only during the last few years of my career that I came to realize the full scope of the harm my colleagues and I had caused, and the lengths that insurance companies will go to increase their profits at the expense of working families.

As I told the Senate Commerce Committee two months ago, the higher up the corporate ladder I climbed, the more I could see how insurance companies confuse their customers and dump the sick – all so they can satisfy those Wall Street masters.

I described for the senators how insurers make promises they have no intention of keeping, how they flout regulations designed to protect consumers, and how they make it nearly impossible to understand -- or even to obtain -- information consumers need.

I also told the Committee how the industry has conducted duplicitous and well-financed PR and lobbying campaigns every time Congress has tried to reform our health care system -- and how its current behind-scenes-efforts may well shape reform in a way that benefits Wall Street far more than average Americans.

I noted that, just as the industry did 15 years ago when it led the effort to kill the Clinton reform plan, it is using shills and front groups to spread lies and disinformation to scare Americans away from the very reform that would benefit them most.

Make no mistake, the industry, despite its public assurances to be good-faith partners with the President and Congress, has been at work for years laying the groundwork for devious and often sinister campaigns to manipulate public opinion.

The industry goes to great lengths to keep its involvement in these campaigns hidden from public view. But I know from having served on many trade group committees that industry leaders are always full partners in developing strategies to derail any reform that might interfere with their ability to increase their companies' profits.

 

[AVG-JOE]

All entitlement programs are subjects of massive fraud. Hence why we shouldn't have them.

Lord knows it's IMPOSSIBLE for Americans to run anything with integrity.

Make sure that baby gets tossed out with that nasty ol' bath water.