CDZ Abortion

[Thunderbird]

Abortion has been legal in the US since 1973. That's 40+ years.

1- Will Roe v Wade ever be reversed? A conservative majority on the SC has not managed to achieve this goal for the pro-life cause. What could make a reversion to pre-1973 law a reality?

2- What would banning abortion achieve? One of the most compelling arguments for legalization was that abortion was going to be available whether we legalized it or not. Would we revert to that condition, where back alley abortion clinics and the ever present coat hangers will start to fill the roles carried out currently by abortion clinics and doctors? Should we be more Draconican, with mass incarcerations of both abortion providers and the women who seek to kill their babies? Can we make abortion impossible?

3- Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, are you capable of understanding and respecting the POV of those who hold the opposite position?

Why not protect vulnerable members of our society? Let's give unborn babies the basic right to life. Let's place restrictions on the ugly abortion industry and protect innocent life.

Back-Alley Abortion Never Ended

Peer-reviewed studies find state pro-life laws reduce abortion rates

 

[Chuz Life]

Abortion has been legal in the US since 1973. That's 40+ years.

1- Will Roe v Wade ever be reversed?

Unknown. However, millions will never stop protesting it until it is finally overturned, regardless.

A conservative majority on the SC has not managed to achieve this goal for the pro-life cause.

Please give some details of the time (since Roe) that we have had a Conservative Majority in the SC.

What could make a reversion to pre-1973 law a reality?

All it takes or will take is for the right case to come before the courts and to then have the courts reverse Roe in much the same way they reversed their-self in much the same way they did in the Dred Scott case.

2- What would banning abortion achieve?

Banning abortions would make the practice (illegal abortions) punishable.

One of the most compelling arguments for legalization was that abortion was going to be available whether we legalized it or not.

Interesting. The proponents of child pornography can (and do sometimes) use the same argument. In their case, unlike with abortions, the children are not usually killed. Do you think they have a solid basis for legalizing child porn?

Would we revert to that condition, where back alley abortion clinics and the ever present coat hangers will start to fill the roles carried out currently by abortion clinics and doctors?

Maybe yes, maybe no. I think it largely depends on how the issue is handled by the courts and law makers, how much education takes place, etc.

Should we be more Draconican, with mass incarcerations of both abortion providers and the women who seek to kill their babies?

I think it is strange that you choose to see the punishment of child killers as something that is "Draconian."

Can we make abortion impossible?

I don't think so. No more than we can make rape, murders or other molestations 'impossible' that is.

3- Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, are you capable of understanding and respecting the POV of those who hold the opposite position?

Yes, I was pro-"whatever a woman wants to do - it's HER body" long before I was Anti on the subject of voluntary abortion.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Abortion has been legal in the US since 1973. That's 40+ years.

1- Will Roe v Wade ever be reversed? A conservative majority on the SC has not managed to achieve this goal for the pro-life cause. What could make a reversion to pre-1973 law a reality?

2- What would banning abortion achieve? One of the most compelling arguments for legalization was that abortion was going to be available whether we legalized it or not. Would we revert to that condition, where back alley abortion clinics and the ever present coat hangers will start to fill the roles carried out currently by abortion clinics and doctors? Should we be more Draconican, with mass incarcerations of both abortion providers and the women who seek to kill their babies? Can we make abortion impossible?

3- Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, are you capable of understanding and respecting the POV of those who hold the opposite position?

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Abortion has been legal in the US since 1973. That's 40+ years.

1- Will Roe v Wade ever be reversed? A conservative majority on the SC has not managed to achieve this goal for the pro-life cause. What could make a reversion to pre-1973 law a reality?

2- What would banning abortion achieve? One of the most compelling arguments for legalization was that abortion was going to be available whether we legalized it or not. Would we revert to that condition, where back alley abortion clinics and the ever present coat hangers will start to fill the roles carried out currently by abortion clinics and doctors? Should we be more Draconican, with mass incarcerations of both abortion providers and the women who seek to kill their babies? Can we make abortion impossible?

3- Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, are you capable of understanding and respecting the POV of those who hold the opposite position?

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Conservatives think fetuses are fully formed human beings like the king cake baby. When in reality a fetus is in the palm of a hand.

 

[Picaro]

Conservatives think fetuses are fully formed human beings like the king cake baby. When in reality a fetus is in the palm of a hand.

Life begins at conception. No way around that biological fact, too bad for sociopaths.

You would surely love these 'medical ethicists'; they're just as enamored with circular reasoning as all baby killers are:

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

These sociopaths think abortion for any reason or no reason is perfectly fine up to 2 years old.

 

[there4eyeM]

Artificial assignment for a moment when 'life' begins ignores scientific facts.
Life began eons ago.
DNA is virtually immortal.
Giving birth is giving death.
People make decisions of life and death all the time, yet we do not have a thorough understanding of what either is.
An egg is a living element. A woman who ovulates each month essentially makes a decision whether the egg will be fertilized or not.

 

[Picaro]

Artificial assignment for a moment when 'life' begins ignores scientific facts.
Life began eons ago.
DNA is virtually immortal.
Giving birth is giving death.
People make decisions of life and death all the time, yet we do not have a thorough understanding of what either is.
An egg is a living element. A woman who ovulates each month essentially makes a decision whether the egg will be fertilized or not.

Yes we know human life has no meaning or value for nihilists, tht's just a given. You surely shouldn't mind if somebody found you to be utterly useless and exterminate you based on their personal opinion of your value then, right? We don't really need any laws against murder, as long as somebody can dream up all kinds of stupid hand waves to excuse it.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Conservatives think fetuses are fully formed human beings like the king cake baby. When in reality a fetus is in the palm of a hand.

Life begins at conception. No way around that biological fact, too bad for sociopaths.

You would surely love these 'medical ethicists'; they're just as enamored with circular reasoning as all baby killers are:

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

These sociopaths think abortion for any reason or no reason is perfectly fine up to 2 years old.

It may be alive but it is not a person. Its alive the same way a small goldfish is alive. We let fish die as pets all the time. No one gets upset about that. Are you pointing that sociopath remark at me?

 

[sartre play]

We have better birth control & more awareness. so abortions are down. the argument seems to be who has more rights the woman or the unborn.

 

[JoeMoma]

Conservatives think fetuses are fully formed human beings like the king cake baby. When in reality a fetus is in the palm of a hand.

Life begins at conception. No way around that biological fact, too bad for sociopaths.

You would surely love these 'medical ethicists'; they're just as enamored with circular reasoning as all baby killers are:

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

These sociopaths think abortion for any reason or no reason is perfectly fine up to 2 years old.

It may be alive but it is not a person. Its alive the same way a small goldfish is alive. We let fish die as pets all the time. No one gets upset about that. Are you pointing that sociopath remark at me?

Why should we value anyone’s life?

A human fetus is human. It is not a goldfish.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Yes it is human but not a person. If all children could be born in ideal situations there would be no need for abortion. Sometimes women think its better all the way around to end a pregnancy. I trust their judgement. Life is hard and at times really ugly. I don't think it is right to impose your line of thinking on anyone. It's America, women need the right to choose.

 

[JoeMoma]

Yes it is human but not a person. If all children could be born in ideal situations there would be no need for abortion. Sometimes women think its better all the way around to end a pregnancy. I trust their judgement. Life is hard and at times really ugly. I don't think it is right to impose your line of thinking on anyone. It's America, women need the right to choose.

You are not a person.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Yes it is human but not a person. If all children could be born in ideal situations there would be no need for abortion. Sometimes women think its better all the way around to end a pregnancy. I trust their judgement. Life is hard and at times really ugly. I don't think it is right to impose your line of thinking on anyone. It's America, women need the right to choose.

You are not a person.

Yes I am.

 

[JoeMoma]

Yes it is human but not a person. If all children could be born in ideal situations there would be no need for abortion. Sometimes women think its better all the way around to end a pregnancy. I trust their judgement. Life is hard and at times really ugly. I don't think it is right to impose your line of thinking on anyone. It's America, women need the right to choose.

You are not a person.

Yes I am.

Are you sure? What makes you a person? When did you become a person? Is it as simple as outside vs. inside (the womb)?
It seems pretty easy to me to dehumanize a life by simply declaring it “not a person”.

 

[yiostheoy]

Abortion has been legal in the US since 1973. That's 40+ years.

1- Will Roe v Wade ever be reversed? A conservative majority on the SC has not managed to achieve this goal for the pro-life cause. What could make a reversion to pre-1973 law a reality?

2- What would banning abortion achieve? One of the most compelling arguments for legalization was that abortion was going to be available whether we legalized it or not. Would we revert to that condition, where back alley abortion clinics and the ever present coat hangers will start to fill the roles carried out currently by abortion clinics and doctors? Should we be more Draconican, with mass incarcerations of both abortion providers and the women who seek to kill their babies? Can we make abortion impossible?

3- Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, are you capable of understanding and respecting the POV of those who hold the opposite position?

There is nothing in the Constitution of the US that mentions women.

Ergo abortion is a state issue.

And Roe V Wade is bad law.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Yes it is human but not a person. If all children could be born in ideal situations there would be no need for abortion. Sometimes women think its better all the way around to end a pregnancy. I trust their judgement. Life is hard and at times really ugly. I don't think it is right to impose your line of thinking on anyone. It's America, women need the right to choose.

You are not a person.

Yes I am.

Are you sure? What makes you a person? When did you become a person? Is it as simple as outside vs. inside (the womb)?
It seems pretty easy to me to dehumanize a life by simply declaring it “not a person”.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Dehumanize a potential life not a life. Define life. And i know you think life begins at conception but in reality "a life", begins when you are born. A fetus cannot sustain itself without it's host so it's not alive independently and doesn't have a life of it's own.

 

[JoeMoma]

”a life", begins when you are born.

That has more to do with perception than reality. It is much easier to dismiss the life of someone who has never been seen outside of the womb than someone we have seen and held. So to many people, there is plausible denial that the life ever existed if the baby is vacuumed from the mother’s womb rather than being born.

There is a window of several days, perhaps weeks, in which labor could be induced to accelerate the birth of a baby rather than allowing the pregnancy go to full term and allowing labor to occur naturally. Does a baby’s life that is born at the 39th week of a pregnancy really begin a week sooner than a baby that is born at the 40th week of pregnancy? Is it really as simple as outside vs. inside?

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Yes, inside it's not viable outside it is. Again i would have to ask you to define life. Are you talking when they draw their first breath? You think abortion is simple? Have you heard of pimps, and wife beaters, and alcoholic fathers. If abortion stops what are your plans for a million plus children a year. I think until quickening it's ok to abort. That is usually enough time to make a decision and make arrangements. And of course there is always exceptions. I think a lot of your problem is that you are into male dominence and you feel that control over women fading and you can't take it.