CDZ Abortion

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Elvis Obama, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. Elvis Obama
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    Elvis Obama VIP Member

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    Abortion has been legal in the US since 1973. That's 40+ years.

    1- Will Roe v Wade ever be reversed? A conservative majority on the SC has not managed to achieve this goal for the pro-life cause. What could make a reversion to pre-1973 law a reality?

    2- What would banning abortion achieve? One of the most compelling arguments for legalization was that abortion was going to be available whether we legalized it or not. Would we revert to that condition, where back alley abortion clinics and the ever present coat hangers will start to fill the roles carried out currently by abortion clinics and doctors? Should we be more Draconican, with mass incarcerations of both abortion providers and the women who seek to kill their babies? Can we make abortion impossible?

    3- Whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, are you capable of understanding and respecting the POV of those who hold the opposite position?
     
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  2. 320 Years of History
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    320 Years of History Gold Member

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    A Constitutional amendment.

    Almost certainly. Abortion is just like booze. If folks want it, they'll get it, in the case of abortion, literally by hook and crook if it were to again become illegal. The desire for abortions is no different now than it was in 1973. The very same consequences of unwanted pregnancies and childbirth that existed in 1973 are the ones that exist now. Those things haven't changed. What's changed is that fewer unwanted children are born.

    Yes, somewhat. I don't have trouble respecting some of the pro-life adherents, but I have no regard for the goal of making abortion an illegal practice.
     
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  3. Vigilante
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    Vigilante BANNED

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    You also would probably need a conservative president, very PRO LIFE, that had the BALLS to stand up to SCOTUS as they have been declaring Unconstitutional decisions, and far away from what the court was originally intended for! You must remember only the Executive has the actual power to backup his/her decision, not Congress or the court!

    The current TIED decision to remake voting districts to include ILLEGAL ALIENS although they can not vote as an example of Judicial unconstitutionality! Bringing it back down to the lower courts unconstitutional rendering.
     
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  4. C_Clayton_Jones
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    C_Clayton_Jones Diamond Member

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    Some points to consider first:

    Planned Parenthood v. Casey reflects current privacy rights jurisprudence concerning abortion, not Roe.

    In order for states to again ‘ban’ abortion, privacy rights case law in its entirety must be overturned, not just a single case.

    If that case law is overturned, the states could not only ‘ban’ abortion, but also interfere with other aspects of citizens’ reproductive rights – that’s why the issue us much more than just ‘abortion.’

    If Griswold/Eisenstadt/Roe/Casey were overturned, abortion would remain legal in most of the United States, women with means living in a state that ‘bans’ abortion would still be able to obtain an abortion simply by traveling to another state where the practice is legal.

    And in states where it’s illegal women will continue to have abortions as before Roe, where doctors performing abortion would simply deem it medically necessary or refer to it as another type of medical procedure.

    Everyone is in agreement that the practice of abortion must end, the disagreement concerns how to indeed end the practice, where ‘banning’ abortion would not only undermine our civil rights and increase the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty, but would do little to end abortion.
     
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  5. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    I'm not so sure you are correct there.Otherwise I generally agree with you.
     
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  6. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    1. I doubt it. It would take a serious turn in public opinion, then lots of legal wrangling, both in congress and in court.
    2. A ban would accomplish nothing of merit. The "black market" for "medical" proccedures will always be present. No, and no.
    3. Yes, I understand the POV of those who wish to ban abortion. I understand that it is generally based in a religious/spiritual/cultural belief system, and therefore is irrelevent in national discussions (individual states may be a different issue).
     
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  7. Elvis Obama
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    Elvis Obama VIP Member

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    Casey is more about the limits to banning abortion by subterfuge. It's a reflection of a change in tactics by pro-life forces, who realize that they are impotent to affect the basic declaration of abortion as a right. So they've switched to throwing monkey wrenches into the abortion gears on a state level. Pretty successfully, too.

    I agree that no one "likes" abortion, and that there should be efforts to reduce the need for them. Sex education and contraception are obvious avenues of attack to reduce the need for abortions, but the pro-life side resists these rational approaches. Abstinence, they say, that's the ticket! Rank hypocrisy, imo. If they were so concerned about reducing the number of abortion "murders" they would target reducing unwanted pregnancies. What's more important, reducing unwanted pregnancies, or making sure that no one has sex in a manner they don't approve of?

    My expectation was that no pro-life person would respond to this thread, and so far that's been the case. I despise the dishonest "are fetuses babies?" threads. Call it a fetus and abortion is OK but call it a baby and it isn't? What kind of nonsense is that? People will have sex whether abortion is legal or not. People will terminate unwanted pregnancies whether abortion is legal or not. Legal abortion is simply the most rational way to handle this reality.
     
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  8. D Truth
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    D Truth BANNED

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    1. It is already being "reversed". The culture is moving towards recognition of human life. Despite the pro abortion "personhood" campaign, the media is now too diverse (LMFAO) to corral rational human thought.
    2. Well, the major selling point of abortion was population control... as in kill the poor, the undesirable, those who are weak enough to follow the propaganda.
    Abortionists would ultimately end up being the prosecuted, not the bullied mothers. Interesting how the pro abortion crowd likes to scare women now isn't it?
    3. Yes, the pro abortionist goals are quite readily available:
    - Women should be in the workforce, cheapening labor and cheapening societal standards (By the way, this is feminism in a nutshell), kids hinder this... plenty of third world "immigrants" to replace the population. No need to reproduce, just work, consume, work, consume... ad infinitum

    Of course, there are a few psychopathic subsets to the pro abortion crowd... the homos, the talmudic nuts, the racists, etc.
    Still their arguments are simply archaic religious fanaticism. They never have any basis in provable facts, just blabbering about philosophy or religion.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  9. Elvis Obama
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    Elvis Obama VIP Member

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    1- Do you really think you serve your cause with wishful thinking? You want there to be a movement towards recognition of a fetuses' right to life, but what objective proof is there of that? I'm not saying it's not true. I'm not intellectually dishonest enough to claim that I know what the entire world is thinking. I just think it's absurd to claim that because you want something to be so, that it is so.

    2- Uh, no. These are laughable, paranoid ravings. The question was, what would banning abortion achieve? You are apparently claiming that banning all abortion would result in overpopulation and that this is a good thing.

    What the question is intended to discover is what pro-life supporters imagine the world would be like, if they had their way. Would it simply be what it was before Roe? Or do they want to make war against abortion, as abolitionists once made war on slavery? If abortion is murder, then what is accomplished by merely driving the murder underground? The murder must be stopped, no? Should doctors be forced to report when a woman is pregnant? Should an arm of the police be created to monitor the pregnancy and make sure that it is not terminated in an illegal manner?

    3- The word you're looking for is no. You cannot understand or respect the position of those who hold a pro-choice position.
     
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  10. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 Gold Member

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    1- Ever? I have no idea. I will say that it is extremely unlikely in the near future. Even more than the legal hurdles, the enforcement and process that such would be carried out is a huge problem with reversing legal abortion. That does not mean that the current understanding and access to abortion could not be refined.

    2- The goal would be to reduce the number of abortions. I think that banning would likely accomplish this to some degree - making it illegal would have fewer people willing to go through an abortion or risk the process of an illegal abortion. The real question is whether or not this would be better than what we have right now and I think that it would not.

    3- Yes.
     
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