Abortion - 12 Weeks In The Womb

[Derideo_Te]

What criterion is to be used to determine if and when a fetus conceived in the United States is afforded the rights of a United States citizen?

If a fetus is granted Constitutional rights then all kinds of awkward problems occur.

For instance if a pregnant woman were to commit an act of terrorism that killed hundreds of people would the rights of the innocent fetus to not be detained since it had committed no crime override that of the pregnant woman concerned? If the fetus has no rights in that instance then where is the line drawn? It has a right to Life but not Liberty?

 

[jon_berzerk]

I thought we had a ban on fetus porn.

Here's the big question- Did that 12 week fetus live when it came out of the womb?

No. No case of a fetus born before 22 weeks has lived and even at 22 weeks, they have a mortality rate of 95%.

So ?? what does that have to do with weather its human or not.

No reliance whats so ever.

Does basic literacy escape you?

Point is, if it isn't viable, it isn't a person. And most fetuses are aborted long before they reach the level of development in that picture.

I thought we had a ban on fetus porn.

Here's the big question- Did that 12 week fetus live when it came out of the womb?

No. No case of a fetus born before 22 weeks has lived and even at 22 weeks, they have a mortality rate of 95%.

So ?? what does that have to do with weather its human or not.

No reliance whats so ever.

Does basic literacy escape you?

Point is, if it isn't viable, it isn't a person. And most fetuses are aborted long before they reach the level of development in that picture.

Oh bull shit what does viability have to do whether its a person or not,just another lame ass excuse to kill from the left.

indeed the fetus would be viable if not aborted

Oh bull shit what does viability have to do whether its a person or not,just another lame ass excuse to kill from the left.

Well, viability is important if it can't LIVE OUTSIDE THE WOMAN IT HAPPENS TO BE IN!!!!!!

You see, if a pregnant woman wants a child, it's a "Baby". As in "The baby is due in May!"

If a pregnant woman doesn't want a child, it's "That thing I need to take care of." As in, "Can you give me a ride to the abortion clinic on Tuesday for that thing I need to take care of?"

I'm happy to have pointed out the difference for you.

What baby is viable without help?

Whether a baby/fetus is in a womb or a crib, they needs constant support and care.

not in joes utopia --LOL

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Aside from moral and ethical arguments, that being a white baby, there are thousands of couples tripping all over themselves to adopt, and many will pay $50k-$100k in legal and medical fees for the opportunity. In fact white couples adopt more babies of every race and ethnicity than any other demographic. Life is sacred.

Uh, life's not so sacred if you just finished saying it's worth 50-100k.

 

[JoeB131]

What baby is viable without help?

Whether a baby/fetus is in a womb or a crib, they need constant support and care.

But you can't compell someone to take care of a baby in a crib if they don't want to.

You have to compel a specific woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. WHich is not only sort of cruel, but also impractical. Are you going to put her under house arrest? Execute her if she has an illegal abortion?

You see, I see you guys showing me the Fetus Porn all day, but I have yet to hear one of you explain how you are going to enforce the abortion laws you want to impose.

 

[JoeB131]

not in joes utopia --LOL

In my "Utopia", you mind your own fucking business.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Those who truly abhor abortion and want to reduce the number of them ought to be strongly in favor of ensuring that it remains legal.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

not in joes utopia --LOL

In my "Utopia", you mind your own fucking business.

Laws are all about NOT minding your own business.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Will simplify my stance on baby-killing:

The arguements used to justify it are simply temporal in nature. Before some arbitrary moment it's not a human being for various reasons.

My position though is if ya leave it the hell alone it'll BE a human being.

Sometimes there may well be a medical necessity to sacrifice a baby so the mother can live (and make more.) That should remain legal. But what should be made ILLEGAL is selective abortions. If you don't have a police report indicating you were raped, or if your health or life aren't in jeopardy if you want to kill your own baby you have to go to Canada.

 

[buckeye]

What baby is viable without help?

Whether a baby/fetus is in a womb or a crib, they need constant support and care.

But you can't compell someone to take care of a baby in a crib if they don't want to.

You have to compel a specific woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. WHich is not only sort of cruel, but also impractical. Are you going to put her under house arrest? Execute her if she has an illegal abortion?

You see, I see you guys showing me the Fetus Porn all day, but I have yet to hear one of you explain how you are going to enforce the abortion laws you want to impose.

If someone doesn't care for a baby in a crib what happens to them? We take that offense rather seriously. It makes no sense that the only difference is the location of the being and their age.

I agree that we can't compel a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy. That's why abortion has always existed and always will. I am not in favor of changing the basic law as much as I am in favor of stopping the abortion mills where they fight the slightest regulation of their profitable venture, stopping the insane practice of late term abortion, contraception and education and support for the mother (you may call her a mother-to-be).

Oh, and I also favor letting people be against abortion. If you own a company and don't want to cover abortions for your employees, that should be your right.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Corporations are not people, my friend.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What baby is viable without help?

Whether a baby/fetus is in a womb or a crib, they need constant support and care.

But you can't compell someone to take care of a baby in a crib if they don't want to.

You have to compel a specific woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. WHich is not only sort of cruel, but also impractical. Are you going to put her under house arrest? Execute her if she has an illegal abortion?

You see, I see you guys showing me the Fetus Porn all day, but I have yet to hear one of you explain how you are going to enforce the abortion laws you want to impose.

If someone doesn't care for a baby in a crib what happens to them? We take that offense rather seriously. It makes no sense that the only difference is the location of the being and their age.

I agree that we can't compel a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy. That's why abortion has always existed and always will. I am not in favor of changing the basic law as much as I am in favor of stopping the abortion mills where they fight the slightest regulation of their profitable venture, stopping the insane practice of late term abortion, contraception and education and support for the mother (you may call her a mother-to-be).

Oh, and I also favor letting people be against abortion. If you own a company and don't want to cover abortions for your employees, that should be your right.

How can a company pay its employees if it doesn't want to pay for abortions? Paychecks can be used to pay for abortions.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Will simplify my stance on baby-killing:

The arguements used to justify it are simply temporal in nature. Before some arbitrary moment it's not a human being for various reasons.

My position though is if ya leave it the hell alone it'll BE a human being.

Sometimes there may well be a medical necessity to sacrifice a baby so the mother can live (and make more.) That should remain legal. But what should be made ILLEGAL is selective abortions. If you don't have a police report indicating you were raped, or if your health or life aren't in jeopardy if you want to kill your own baby you have to go to Canada.

And what would you do to the women who break the law?

 

[ricechickie]

What baby is viable without help?

Whether a baby/fetus is in a womb or a crib, they need constant support and care.

But you can't compell someone to take care of a baby in a crib if they don't want to.

You have to compel a specific woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. WHich is not only sort of cruel, but also impractical. Are you going to put her under house arrest? Execute her if she has an illegal abortion?

You see, I see you guys showing me the Fetus Porn all day, but I have yet to hear one of you explain how you are going to enforce the abortion laws you want to impose.

If someone doesn't care for a baby in a crib what happens to them? We take that offense rather seriously. It makes no sense that the only difference is the location of the being and their age.

I agree that we can't compel a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy. That's why abortion has always existed and always will. I am not in favor of changing the basic law as much as I am in favor of stopping the abortion mills where they fight the slightest regulation of their profitable venture, stopping the insane practice of late term abortion, contraception and education and support for the mother (you may call her a mother-to-be).

Oh, and I also favor letting people be against abortion. If you own a company and don't want to cover abortions for your employees, that should be your right.

If the burden of care can be transferred to another person, then the woman can choose to do that instead of abortion. However, the burden of caring for and growing a fetus (baby, whatever) inside her is her burden alone, and therefore, her choice alone.

 

[Rozman]

I caught Rachel Maddow recently and she was lamenting the fact
that Texas has closed a number of abortion clinics.
She ended by saying that the clinics that were closed had performed over 70,000 abortions.

And it seemed to me that there were tears beginning to form in her eyes as she went into a break.
She seemed sad that abortion clinics out of state will have to step up to pick up the slack....

The number 70,000 hit me and I thought is that the number performed over the course
of the time the clinics hav been opened,or last year or the last few months...

Were there 70,000 fetuses that were damaged or posing a threat to the mother.

Anyway that number was striking to me.
And that is just for Texas.

 

[Coyote]

The photo is a hoax.

snopes.com 12-Week Fetus Photograph

A 12-week old fetus looks nothing like that.

It's a dishonest attempt to play on the emotions because a real picture wouldn't look very human.

 

[JoeB131]

If someone doesn't care for a baby in a crib what happens to them? We take that offense rather seriously. It makes no sense that the only difference is the location of the being and their age.

Only if they've agreed to take care of that baby in a crib. If a woman says, "I can't handle this", she is free to drop her child off with a state agency.

I agree that we can't compel a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy. That's why abortion has always existed and always will. I am not in favor of changing the basic law as much as I am in favor of stopping the abortion mills where they fight the slightest regulation of their profitable venture, stopping the insane practice of late term abortion, contraception and education and support for the mother (you may call her a mother-to-be).

Two points, otherwise I agree. First, most of the regulations proposed for abortion providers are meant to shut them down, not to make them safer. The Gosnells of the world ignore the regulations that are in place, which are just fine. As for "Late Term" abortion (A misnomer; A pregnancy only comes to term when the baby is born, so they should be called just "late abortions") less than 1% of abortion are performed after the 20th week, and those are almost always out of medical necessity.

 

[JoeB131]

The photo is a hoax.

snopes.com 12-Week Fetus Photograph

A 12-week old fetus looks nothing like that.

It's a dishonest attempt to play on the emotions because a real picture wouldn't look very human.

of course it is.

I think I'm going to need to start running every OP through snopes, but there's another thread about a guy who ate his neighbor's dog that was obviously a hoax and still got 8 pages of replies.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I am in favor of stopping the abortion mills where they fight the slightest regulation of their profitable venture, stopping the insane practice of late term abortion

1. Prove that abortions are a "profitable venture". Where are the Fortune 100 corporations that are thriving on the profits from abortions?

2. Late term abortions are ALWAYS either about the health of the woman or the fetus or both. No doctor is going to lose his license doing a "selective" late term abortion.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, and I also favor letting people be against abortion. If you own a company and don't want to cover abortions for your employees, that should be your right.

First no company is required to cover abortions as part of their insurance.

Secondly, your medical care should not be dictated by your employer. That strikes me as a good argument against employer provided health coverage, which is always a bad idea.

Should your employer be able to refuse your blood pressure treatment because they don't approve of your diet?

Should they be allowed to deny you a blood transfusion because they are Jehovah's Witnesses?

Should they deny you psychological treatment after a family crisis because they are Scientologists and don't believe in psychology?

 

[jknowgood]

I thought we had a ban on fetus porn.

Here's the big question- Did that 12 week fetus live when it came out of the womb?

No. No case of a fetus born before 22 weeks has lived and even at 22 weeks, they have a mortality rate of 95%.

• James Elgin Gill: The record for the world's most premature baby belongs to James Elgin Gill, a Canadian man born at just 21 weeks 5 days in 1988. James was born so early that he was expected to die at birth or, if he survived, to have multiple and severe handicaps. James beat all of the odds though, and in 2006 was a healthy teenager heading off to college.

• Amilia Taylor: American baby Amilia Taylor was born at 21 weeks 6 days in October of 2006. Because Amilia was conceived by in vitro fertilization, her gestational age can be pinpointed exactly, an imposibility for most infants. Although she needed oxygen at hospital discharge, was anemic, and has mild osteopenia, she is otherwise a normal, healthy little girl.

so you found a whole two over 30 years? This is your fucking argument, then?

But, but, if your talking about guns. If it will save just one life. Two lives were saved you dumbass.