Abbas: Peace Agreement Will End Conflict

[Hossfly]

OK, Tinmore, you have the floor.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Quick question Rocco. Are the descendants of the refugees also refugees? In other words, do they have the same status as the actual refugees themselves ?

I'd say definitely no. My parents were former refugees from Poland, but I don't see myself as a refugee.

Interesting. Why did they leave? Where did they go? How did they get there? Did they try to go back?

Nothing personal. Just curious.

Sorry I couldn't answer earlier but it was a holiday. My dad was born in Poland, as was my mom. He somehow got separated from his family during the war. They were all murdered in the Holocaust. He joined the Russian army. After the war, he was in a displaced persons' camp in Germany. He was able to come to America. Later, he went to Israel for awhile where he met my mom, married her there, and brought her to America. My mom and her family were lucky enough to get on the Russian side of Poland, when Hitler and Stalin divided up Poland. They were deported to Siberia during the war. After the war, they returned to Poland. The Polish blamed the Jews for what the Germans did to their country. They burned the synagogue in my mom's town and carried out pogroms. My mom's family applied for visas to America, but they were denied. They had no choice but to emigrate to Israel. They lived in tents there for the first couple of years, but that was long, long ago. It's unbelievable that there are still Palestinian refugees 65 years later, until today.

 

[Bloodrock44]

I'd say definitely no. My parents were former refugees from Poland, but I don't see myself as a refugee.

Interesting. Why did they leave? Where did they go? How did they get there? Did they try to go back?

Nothing personal. Just curious.

Sorry I couldn't answer earlier but it was a holiday. My dad was born in Poland, as was my mom. He somehow got separated from his family during the war. They were all murdered in the Holocaust. He joined the Russian army. After the war, he was in a displaced persons' camp in Germany. He was able to come to America. Later, he went to Israel for awhile where he met my mom, married her there, and brought her to America. My mom and her family were lucky enough to get on the Russian side of Poland, when Hitler and Stalin divided up Poland. They were deported to Siberia during the war. After the war, they returned to Poland. The Polish blamed the Jews for what the Germans did to their country. They burned the synagogue in my mom's town and carried out pogroms. My mom's family applied for visas to America, but they were denied. They had no choice but to emigrate to Israel. They lived in tents there for the first couple of years, but that was long, long ago. It's unbelievable that there are still Palestinian refugees 65 years later, until today.

Very touching. Makes me want to find a holocaust denier and...never mind. I'm trying my hardest to be civil.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'd say definitely no. My parents were former refugees from Poland, but I don't see myself as a refugee.

Interesting. Why did they leave? Where did they go? How did they get there? Did they try to go back?

Nothing personal. Just curious.

Sorry I couldn't answer earlier but it was a holiday. My dad was born in Poland, as was my mom. He somehow got separated from his family during the war. They were all murdered in the Holocaust. He joined the Russian army. After the war, he was in a displaced persons' camp in Germany. He was able to come to America. Later, he went to Israel for awhile where he met my mom, married her there, and brought her to America. My mom and her family were lucky enough to get on the Russian side of Poland, when Hitler and Stalin divided up Poland. They were deported to Siberia during the war. After the war, they returned to Poland. The Polish blamed the Jews for what the Germans did to their country. They burned the synagogue in my mom's town and carried out pogroms. My mom's family applied for visas to America, but they were denied. They had no choice but to emigrate to Israel. They lived in tents there for the first couple of years, but that was long, long ago. It's unbelievable that there are still Palestinian refugees 65 years later, until today.

Thanks for the response. I don't have anything to say except, unfortunately, their experience is not unique. Some of my Jewish friends had similar experiences.

As far as Palestinian refugees are concerned, that is tricky also. A friend of mine came to the US on a visa. He obtained citizenship and owns a business. That sounds good except his wife and two pre-teen daughters are stuck in Jordan. They are not allowed to come here. The only time he can see his wife and daughters is when he goes on vacation in Jordan.

Everything is political for Palestinians. It is not like they can just do what they want.

 

[Hossfly]

Interesting. Why did they leave? Where did they go? How did they get there? Did they try to go back?

Nothing personal. Just curious.

Sorry I couldn't answer earlier but it was a holiday. My dad was born in Poland, as was my mom. He somehow got separated from his family during the war. They were all murdered in the Holocaust. He joined the Russian army. After the war, he was in a displaced persons' camp in Germany. He was able to come to America. Later, he went to Israel for awhile where he met my mom, married her there, and brought her to America. My mom and her family were lucky enough to get on the Russian side of Poland, when Hitler and Stalin divided up Poland. They were deported to Siberia during the war. After the war, they returned to Poland. The Polish blamed the Jews for what the Germans did to their country. They burned the synagogue in my mom's town and carried out pogroms. My mom's family applied for visas to America, but they were denied. They had no choice but to emigrate to Israel. They lived in tents there for the first couple of years, but that was long, long ago. It's unbelievable that there are still Palestinian refugees 65 years later, until today.

Thanks for the response. I don't have anything to say except, unfortunately, their experience is not unique. Some of my Jewish friends had similar experiences.

As far as Palestinian refugees are concerned, that is tricky also. A friend of mine came to the US on a visa. He obtained citizenship and owns a business. That sounds good except his wife and two pre-teen daughters are stuck in Jordan. They are not allowed to come here. The only time he can see his wife and daughters is when he goes on vacation in Jordan.

Everything is political for Palestinians. It is not like they can just do what they want.

Maybe your friend should try again since you claim he is now a U.S. citizen.

Q. I am a U.S. citizen. What documents must I prepare for the immigration petition for my alien spouse?
A. Generally, you will need to prepare the following documents:
1. Form I-130, Petition for Alien Relative, with all required documentation;
2. A copy of your birth certificate showing your name, or your U.S. passport;
3. If you are a citizen and were not born in the United States, a copy of either
a. your Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship or
b. your U.S. passport
4. Two completed and signed G-325A's (one for you and one for your spouse);
5. A copy of your marriage certificate;
6. A copy of any divorce decrees, death certificates, or annulment decrees that would show that any previous marriage entered into by you or your spouse was ended legally; and
7. Two recently taken color photos of you and two of your spouse.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Sorry I couldn't answer earlier but it was a holiday. My dad was born in Poland, as was my mom. He somehow got separated from his family during the war. They were all murdered in the Holocaust. He joined the Russian army. After the war, he was in a displaced persons' camp in Germany. He was able to come to America. Later, he went to Israel for awhile where he met my mom, married her there, and brought her to America. My mom and her family were lucky enough to get on the Russian side of Poland, when Hitler and Stalin divided up Poland. They were deported to Siberia during the war. After the war, they returned to Poland. The Polish blamed the Jews for what the Germans did to their country. They burned the synagogue in my mom's town and carried out pogroms. My mom's family applied for visas to America, but they were denied. They had no choice but to emigrate to Israel. They lived in tents there for the first couple of years, but that was long, long ago. It's unbelievable that there are still Palestinian refugees 65 years later, until today.

Thanks for the response. I don't have anything to say except, unfortunately, their experience is not unique. Some of my Jewish friends had similar experiences.

As far as Palestinian refugees are concerned, that is tricky also. A friend of mine came to the US on a visa. He obtained citizenship and owns a business. That sounds good except his wife and two pre-teen daughters are stuck in Jordan. They are not allowed to come here. The only time he can see his wife and daughters is when he goes on vacation in Jordan.

Everything is political for Palestinians. It is not like they can just do what they want.

Maybe your friend should try again since you claim he is now a U.S. citizen.

Q. I am a U.S. citizen. What documents must I prepare for the immigration petition for my alien spouse?
A. Generally, you will need to prepare the following documents:
1. Form I-130, Petition for Alien Relative, with all required documentation;
2. A copy of your birth certificate showing your name, or your U.S. passport;
3. If you are a citizen and were not born in the United States, a copy of either
a. your Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship or
b. your U.S. passport
4. Two completed and signed G-325A's (one for you and one for your spouse);
5. A copy of your marriage certificate;
6. A copy of any divorce decrees, death certificates, or annulment decrees that would show that any previous marriage entered into by you or your spouse was ended legally; and
7. Two recently taken color photos of you and two of your spouse.

I am sure he has jumped through all the hoops. What is normal for most people frequently does not apply to Palestinians.

 

[docmauser1]

But the Arabs have a different UN organisation looking after them. UNRWA deals only with the refugees between 48 and 67 in the area. All other countries are dealt with by UNHCR and do not class descendants of any refugees also as refugees.

Palistanians are a special class, indeed. No real-world refugee can have the luxury, having a discount UNHCR for all, instead; while palisimian so-called refugees enjoy their very own premium-service, tailor-made, personalized UN agency - the UNRWA. Royal bogus refugees.

 

[docmauser1]

Everything is political for Palestinians.

Because of their habit of turning everything into "political", of course.

It is not like they can just do what they want.

Good. And then they cry "apartheid".

 

[docmauser1]

... Persons who meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria:
These are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, ... .

A little less, than 2 years, meaning, basically, major arab immigrants have been classified, i.e. misrepresented, as those, whom our honorable P F Tinmore lovingly misrepresents as "natives".

 

[P F Tinmore]

... Persons who meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria:
These are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, ... .

A little less, than 2 years, meaning, basically, major arab immigrants have been classified, i.e. misrepresented, as those, whom our honorable P F Tinmore lovingly misrepresents as "natives".

How many Arabs moved to Palestine during that time period?

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

It certainly looks like the peace talks aren't that popular.


Hundreds March in Ramallah Against Peace Talks

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine organizes march in Ramallah against the peace negotiations with Israel.

By Elad Benari
First Publish: 9/8/2013, 5:21 AM



Hundreds of people marched in Ramallah on Saturday September 7th to protest against the peace negotiations with Israel, reports the Bethlehem-based Ma’an news agency.

The march was organized by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). At least 1,000 people marched towards the headquarters of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in the Muqata, chanting slogans against negotiations.

"We are against the negotiations because they don't serve the interests of the Palestinian people," PFLP leader Abdulrahim Malouh told Ma'an.

"We remain with our people's right to return, independence, and self-determination," he added, calling for national unity.

Senior PFLP official Khalida Jarrar told Ma’an the demonstration aimed to send a message that the PLO must stop negotiations.

"We came to deliver a political voice dismissive of the negotiations," she said.

PFLP official Omar Shehadeh criticized a heavy PA police presence at the demonstration, saying it created division between the PA and the people.

Last month hundreds of people in Gaza protested against Israeli-PA peace talks, in marches organized by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror groups.
Marchers set off from mosques across the coastal strip before converging on a square in the middle of Gaza City, with protesters brandishing signs saying "No to negotiations" and slamming Abbas's "political failure."
Israeli and PA negotiators formally resumed direct peace talks in August after a hiatus of nearly three years, thanks to an intense bout of shuttle diplomacy by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.

Hundreds March in Ramallah Against Peace Talks - Middle East - News - Israel National News

 

[docmauser1]

... Persons who meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria:
These are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, ... .

A little less, than 2 years, meaning, basically, major arab immigrants have been classified, i.e. misrepresented, as those, whom our honorable P F Tinmore lovingly misrepresents as "natives".

How many Arabs moved to Palestine during that time period?

The UNRWA won't tell, the "time-immemorial palistanian" image has to be sustained, whether it's major arab immigrants prior to 1 June 1946, or after, of course.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It certainly looks like the peace talks aren't that popular.


Hundreds March in Ramallah Against Peace Talks

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine organizes march in Ramallah against the peace negotiations with Israel.

By Elad Benari
First Publish: 9/8/2013, 5:21 AM



Hundreds of people marched in Ramallah on Saturday September 7th to protest against the peace negotiations with Israel, reports the Bethlehem-based Ma’an news agency.

The march was organized by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). At least 1,000 people marched towards the headquarters of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in the Muqata, chanting slogans against negotiations.

"We are against the negotiations because they don't serve the interests of the Palestinian people," PFLP leader Abdulrahim Malouh told Ma'an.

"We remain with our people's right to return, independence, and self-determination," he added, calling for national unity.

Senior PFLP official Khalida Jarrar told Ma’an the demonstration aimed to send a message that the PLO must stop negotiations.

"We came to deliver a political voice dismissive of the negotiations," she said.

PFLP official Omar Shehadeh criticized a heavy PA police presence at the demonstration, saying it created division between the PA and the people.

Last month hundreds of people in Gaza protested against Israeli-PA peace talks, in marches organized by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror groups.
Marchers set off from mosques across the coastal strip before converging on a square in the middle of Gaza City, with protesters brandishing signs saying "No to negotiations" and slamming Abbas's "political failure."
Israeli and PA negotiators formally resumed direct peace talks in August after a hiatus of nearly three years, thanks to an intense bout of shuttle diplomacy by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.

Hundreds March in Ramallah Against Peace Talks - Middle East - News - Israel National News

A senior official in the Palestinian Authority said on Wednesday that Middle East peace talks have so far proved "futile" and called for greater U.S. participation in talks.

"Until now there has been no progress," the Palestine Liberation Organization’s (PLO) Yasser Abed Rabbo told Voice of Palestine radio, in remarks quoted by the AFP news agency, after several weeks of meetings between Israeli and PA negotiators.

PA: Peace Talks So Far Have Been 'Futile' - Middle East - News - Israel National News

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

It certainly looks like the peace talks aren't that popular.


Hundreds March in Ramallah Against Peace Talks

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine organizes march in Ramallah against the peace negotiations with Israel.

By Elad Benari
First Publish: 9/8/2013, 5:21 AM



Hundreds of people marched in Ramallah on Saturday September 7th to protest against the peace negotiations with Israel, reports the Bethlehem-based Ma’an news agency.

The march was organized by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). At least 1,000 people marched towards the headquarters of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in the Muqata, chanting slogans against negotiations.

"We are against the negotiations because they don't serve the interests of the Palestinian people," PFLP leader Abdulrahim Malouh told Ma'an.

"We remain with our people's right to return, independence, and self-determination," he added, calling for national unity.

Senior PFLP official Khalida Jarrar told Ma’an the demonstration aimed to send a message that the PLO must stop negotiations.

"We came to deliver a political voice dismissive of the negotiations," she said.

PFLP official Omar Shehadeh criticized a heavy PA police presence at the demonstration, saying it created division between the PA and the people.

Last month hundreds of people in Gaza protested against Israeli-PA peace talks, in marches organized by the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terror groups.
Marchers set off from mosques across the coastal strip before converging on a square in the middle of Gaza City, with protesters brandishing signs saying "No to negotiations" and slamming Abbas's "political failure."
Israeli and PA negotiators formally resumed direct peace talks in August after a hiatus of nearly three years, thanks to an intense bout of shuttle diplomacy by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.

Hundreds March in Ramallah Against Peace Talks - Middle East - News - Israel National News

A senior official in the Palestinian Authority said on Wednesday that Middle East peace talks have so far proved "futile" and called for greater U.S. participation in talks.

"Until now there has been no progress," the Palestine Liberation Organization’s (PLO) Yasser Abed Rabbo told Voice of Palestine radio, in remarks quoted by the AFP news agency, after several weeks of meetings between Israeli and PA negotiators.

PA: Peace Talks So Far Have Been 'Futile' - Middle East - News - Israel National News

Peace is the last thing they want, so it is not surprising. Still, we can't say Israel didn't go over and beyond to hold out the hand of peace.

 

[RoccoR]

Sweet_Caroline, et al,

One of the characteristic of a "government" is that it has the capacity to conduct foreign relations with other governments and coalitions. In regards to the "State of Palestine," this may not be a valid assumption. We simply do not know yet.

It certainly looks like the peace talks aren't that popular.

Hundreds March in Ramallah Against Peace Talks

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine organizes march in Ramallah against the peace negotiations with Israel.

By Elad Benari First Publish: 9/8/2013, 5:21 AM

(OBSERVATIONS)

"We are against the negotiations because they don't serve the interests of the Palestinian people," PFLP leader Abdulrahim Malouh told Ma'an.

"Hamas rejects Kerry's announcement of a return to talks and considers the Palestinian Authority's return to negotiations with the occupation to be at odds with the national consensus," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri told AFP on Friday, after Kerry announced at a press conference in Amman that negotiators from both sides will be meeting in Washington next week.

(COMMENT)

First, let me say that there does appear to be a sizable segment of the Palestinian Community (Gaza, West Bank and Jerusalem) that are still supporting the peace negotiations. However, this segment seems very docile, dormant and complacent to the more active, yet smaller, anti-peace talk movements.

The Peace Talks, if successful, have an impact on the "liberation" movements.

• Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMB)
• Army of Islam (AOI)
• Fatah
• Hamas
• Kahane Chai
• Palestine Islamic Jihad – Shaqaqi Faction (PIJ)
• Palestine Liberation Front – Abu Abbas Faction (PLF)
• Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
• Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)

Many of these organizations will become obsolete. And the leadership for these various factions, who has become dependent on the "Liberation of Palestine" for their social standing, power, personal direction, their career, and livelihood for more than six decades, will be a devastating outcome should the peace talks be successful.

They do not want a peaceful solution; but rather, they prefer a status quo so that there appears to be a need for their respective organizations.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[docmauser1]

It certainly looks like the peace talks aren't that popular.
Hundreds March in Ramallah Against Peace Talks - Middle East - News - Israel National News

Doesn't look like news. If it were "Hundreds March in Ramallah For Peace Talks", then it definitely would.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Peace is the last thing they want, so it is not surprising. Still, we can't say Israel didn't go over and beyond to hold out the hand of peace.

building settlements during peace talks shows it is Israel that doesn't want peace.

you should know that, Glick.

These building projects were sanctioned before the talks began.
Link
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/170890
New projects take time to get tenders in. Houses don't get built overnight. You really want your arabic construction workers to have no work to go to before the winter sets in?

Oh, but the way, why do you keep calling me Glick?

 

[Hossfly]

Peace is the last thing they want, so it is not surprising. Still, we can't say Israel didn't go over and beyond to hold out the hand of peace.

building settlements during peace talks shows it is Israel that doesn't want peace.

you should know that, Glick.

These building projects were sanctioned before the talks began.
Link
Kerry, Abbas Knew of Building Plans in Advance - Middle East - News - Israel National News
New projects take time to get tenders in. Houses don't get built overnight. You really want your arabic construction workers to have no work to go to before the winter sets in?

Oh, but the way, why do you keep calling me Glick?

Miss Hoffstra probably calls you Glick because she is disappointed that she is not the success that Caroline Glick, the journalist, is. Caroline Glick is smart and witty, traits that are absent in Miss Hoffstra.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

building settlements during peace talks shows it is Israel that doesn't want peace.

you should know that, Glick.

These building projects were sanctioned before the talks began.
Link
Kerry, Abbas Knew of Building Plans in Advance - Middle East - News - Israel National News
New projects take time to get tenders in. Houses don't get built overnight. You really want your arabic construction workers to have no work to go to before the winter sets in?

Oh, but the way, why do you keep calling me Glick?

Miss Hoffstra probably calls you Glick because she is disappointed that she is not the success that Caroline Glick, the journalist, is. Caroline Glick is smart and witty, traits that are absent in Miss Hoffstra.

Ah ok. So Miss (or Mrs) Hoffstra actually is paying me a compliment. Ok, thanks for explaining. In other words Hoffstra admires my posts, and puts my knowledge on a par with Caroline Glick. Fantastic.

 

[RoccoR]

Sweet_Caroline, Hoffstra, et al,

These mean very little in the short run.

Peace is the last thing they want, so it is not surprising. Still, we can't say Israel didn't go over and beyond to hold out the hand of peace.

building settlements during peace talks shows it is Israel that doesn't want peace.

you should know that, Glick.

These building projects were sanctioned before the talks began.
Link
Kerry, Abbas Knew of Building Plans in Advance - Middle East - News - Israel National News
New projects take time to get tenders in. Houses don't get built overnight. You really want your arabic construction workers to have no work to go to before the winter sets in?

Oh, but the way, why do you keep calling me Glick?

(COMMENT)

In all probability, these are just added bargaining chips for the extended peace negotiations.

The West Bank and Gaza Strip are not expected holdings. That is sovereign Palestine Territory, even though it may be occupied to varying degrees.

Israel cannot not possibly expect to hold onto the settlements it has now in place. Eventually, with the possible exception of a portion of Jerusalem and a few fringe pieces along the rim of the West Bank, Israel will have to pull back behind the Armistice Line. That will probably be the core of the basis that set the conditions for the negotiated peace.

The abandonment of the settlements will (probably) be left intact for the Palestinian Authority to redistribute and allocate. This will be the first set in thin the ranks out of the refugee encampments.

There will probably be a joint Israeli-Palestinian gas and oil project negotiated for the portion of the Levant Basin that is Palestinian. This will be the first step in the revitalization of the Palestinian economy and commercial development.

But the core has another face. The Palestinians will have to turnoff their insurgent activity and abandon the tenants outlined in the HAMAS Covenant and National Charter. They will have to begin a cleanup on the Jihadist satellite activities that threaten peace.

There are a great many that believe that the Palestinians will wait for Israel to initiate a series of major concessions and withdraw to be initiated --- and then --- reopen hostilities. Some warranty and indemnification will have to be put in place to ensure a good faith effort.

Most Respectfully,
R