A Solution To The Middle East Conflict

[Typist2]

@Typist2 Israel negotiated dozen of times, truly to reach any kind of progress, from Oslo Accords to Olmert's deal and even right now, ceasefire under rockets violating the current ceasefire..

Yes, and what is the result of all that negotiation? Not peace and security for the Jewish people. At some point we should recognize the bankruptcy of that process.

Israel is heaven, its better to make the entire middle east under Israeli control instead of surrendering to terrorists..

Except that Israel does not have the ability to make the entire middle east under Israeli control.

Please recall that Arab muslims have repulsed many waves of invasion from westerners over many centuries. They go underground, they bleed the invader, they wait patiently, and eventually the invader leaves.

The most recent example of this is the US invasion of Iraq. The strongest nation on Earth failed to bring Iraq under American control, and we see the result in today's headlines, the murderous fascist psychopaths are back and on the march again.

Eventually one of these warlords will succeed in uniting the Arab world in to a single large country. All the little Arab countries are mostly an invention of invading western imperialists.

 

[Mojo2]

Hi Daniyel, thanks for replying to my post, your kind comments are appreciated.

May I ask, are you with the IDF? If yes, would you perhaps assist me in connecting with that community? I'd like to hear their input if possible.

well the Americans have all the rights to refuse,

My reasoning is as follows. We've allowed 10-12 million illegal immigrants to enter America, and most of them are poor, uneducated, speak foreign languages etc. If we can do that, it seems we could also accommodate 8 million educated capable Israelis, who would be in a position to make much more of a contribution to our country. Obtaining all that talent would be a big benefit to America, a real score for us.

I'm not sure if this even requires a big decision from America, as most Israelis could probably emigrate here under the current system if they so chose.

why won't we just send the Palestinians to the US? 4.4 million Palestinians

Please understand that I'm NOT offering any kind of insult to the Palestinians in saying this, but I doubt America would welcome them. You know, 9/11 and so on. They surely would not be welcomed in the same way that Israelis would be.

And it wouldn't solve the problem away. Even if every Palestinian left the Holy Land and came here, Israel would still face 200 million other Arabs, and Iran etc.

Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs - Updated 2010

Uploaded on Sep 10, 2010

Immigration - Global humanitarian reasons for current U.S. immigration are tested in this updated version of immigration author and journalist Roy Beck's colorful presentation of data from the World Bank and U.S. Census Bureau. The 1996 version of this immigration gumballs presentation has been one of the most viewed immigration policy presentations on the internet.

Presented by immigration author/journalist Roy Beck

Learn More http://www.NumbersUSA.org

NumbersUSA Education & Research Foundation is a non-profit, non-partisan organization that favors an environmentally sustainable and economically just America and seeks to educate the public about the effects of high levels of immigration on U.S. overpopulation, the environment, jobs, and wages. We use government data to conduct research on the impacts of U.S. population growth, consumption, sprawl, and current levels of immigration and educate the public, opinion leaders and policy makers on the results of those and other studies.

Before anyone gets really enthused at the OP's idea of sending hundreds of thousands of immigrants to the USA, please consider these facts.

EDIT: And if the idea of inviting hundreds of thousands of blood thirsty, deadly violent, aggressive racists and terrorist breeding Muslims who are on a campaign of global conquest to America sounds like a good idea to you then you are already fucked.

Instead, put a cap on the numbers of Muslims (or individuals from predominantly Muslim countries) to be permitted to enter the US and then stick to that number.

Otherwise we are committing suicide.

 

[Typist2]

Before anyone gets really enthused at the OP's idea of sending hundreds of thousands of immigrants to the USA, please consider these facts.

Not hundreds of thousands.

Approximately eight million of the smartest, best educated, most capable people on Earth.

And nobody "sends them" to America but themselves.

 

[Mojo2]

1) Palestinians have fought EACH OTHER for control of Gaza and the Pal. Authority. Winning an election there means you can kill and rout your political enemies. If you notice, there hasn't been an election since -- because elections to Palestinians are something they do to make WESTERNERS happy..

Westerners who foolishly have the idea that the act of voting confers on the election and the electorate all of the transformative changes needed to make the Palestinian government 'almost' like America and thus, okay in the grand scheme of things. All of the magic that makes the USA the special place it is can be gently blanketed by the voting experience.

The act of practicing Democracy with the act of voting only means that the majority of Palestinians can simply vote for the most brutal and thuggish extremist Muslim Brotherhood representative for President and, as far as the brain dead American liberals and Democrats are concerned, everything is perfect!

Voting is important. Better than having an appointed ruler, but in the march toward ANYTHING we'd be reasonably assured would result in peace, freedom and prosperity, we had better wake up to the fact that voting, by itself, don't mean shit.

In the 1950's and 60's the nation of Algeria was rocked by Islamic revolution and the Islamist party submitted their set of candidates and their political platform to be considered by the electorate and they won!

Well, the next day the winners of that election, the islamists, took their newly won powers to declare Democracy would be no more!

They won the election and once they did they put an end to all Democracy.

They ceased any further elections.

Voting means nothing without a commitment to Democratic ideals.

 

[Mojo2]

Before anyone gets really enthused at the OP's idea of sending hundreds of thousands of immigrants to the USA, please consider these facts.

Not hundreds of thousands.

Approximately eight million of the smartest, best educated, most capable people on Earth.

And nobody "sends them" to America but themselves.

Out of the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of poor people on Earth saving even 8 million still leaves billions and billions we can not afford to help.

In the meantime, these 8 million will cause America to founder.

And, this tips me off to the idea that you may not have watched the video thoroughly.

Beck points out that allowing the SMARTEST, BEST EDUCATED, MOST CAPABLE PEOPLE ON EARTH to come here further impoverishes the parts of the world that most need the contributions of these exmplary individuals.

Wouldn't your concept result in even greater global resentment of the USA?

Removing from the poor countries of the Earth the people most able to produce positive changes to those lands and for those peoples if they just stayed put would be the kind of big, unfeeling, Superpower arrogance that you are hoping to avoid.

Yes?

 

[BillyP]

The easiest solution would be to nuke Mecca, then Medina, then... Until Muslims surrender unconditionally, like Japan did in WWII. Now Japan is very prosperous and a good ally.

 

[docmauser1]

@Typist2 Israel negotiated dozen of times, truly to reach any kind of progress, from Oslo Accords to Olmert's deal and even right now, ceasefire under rockets violating the current ceasefire..

Yes, and what is the result of all that negotiation? Not peace and security for the Jewish people. At some point we should recognize the bankruptcy of that process.

It was recognised quite a time ago, that's why a humanitarian resettlement of palistanians in arab lands is long past due, of course.

 

[Typist2]

Out of the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of poor people on Earth saving even 8 million still leaves billions and billions we can not afford to help.

More arguing against assertions of a poster's own invention. I never made any claim that my proposal could improve the lives of everyone on Earth.

In the meantime, these 8 million will cause America to founder.

We have absorbed 10-12 million largely poor uneducated immigrants in recent years, and have not foundered. The highly educated and capable people of Israel would be a big asset to the United States, not a liability.

And, this tips me off to the idea that you may not have watched the video thoroughly.

If you can't bother to type your points, I can't be bothered to watch YouTube videos.

Beck points out that allowing the SMARTEST, BEST EDUCATED, MOST CAPABLE PEOPLE ON EARTH to come here further impoverishes the parts of the world that most need the contributions of these exmplary individuals.

Are you referring to the Middle East? Or where? What "parts of the world"?

Wouldn't your concept result in even greater global resentment of the USA?

Why??? Most of the world is now against Israeli occupation and control of Palestine, a problem my proposal would permanently resolve. The Arabs would be deliriously happy, Europeans would be satisfied, Asian and African countries wouldn't much care, just as they don't already.

The main complainers are likely to be those within Israel who want a state more than they want peace and security.

Removing from the poor countries of the Earth the people most able to produce positive changes to those lands and for those peoples if they just stayed put would be the kind of big, unfeeling, Superpower arrogance that you are hoping to avoid.

I'm sorry, apologies, I really don't know what you're talking about, and doubt you do either. My best guess is that you're playing the forum game of "whatever anybody says about anything is wrong".

Again, the best way to defeat my proposal is to replace it with a better one, which you are willing to defend in some detail.

 

[docmauser1]

Again, the best way to defeat my proposal is to replace it with a better one, which you are willing to defend in some detail.

Why, humanitarian transfer of palistanians, of course!

 

[Typist2]

...which you are willing to defend in some detail.

 

[Beelzebub]

Personally, I think Israel should withdraw to the 1938 borders.

 

[docmauser1]

...which you are willing to defend in some detail.

Elsewhere within the thread, of course.

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYYwWkt5ROM]DEBATE: How to Solve the Israel-Palestine Conflict: 0, 1 , or 2 State Solution? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[toastman]

The only solution is for the Palestinians to surrender. Or, they can continue making demands that Israel would never abide to....while Israel continues to grow and the Palestinians still have no independent state.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What's yellow and would look good on Mecca?

 

[pbel]

Greetings All,

Thank you for taking the time to consider my remarks.

This article proposes that the Mideast conflict between Israel and Palestine is approaching a historic fork in the road.

Down one road lies a dramatic success in which almost all the goals of all the parties are met in an irrevocable permanent manner. Down the other road lies a dramatic failure of biblical proportions. Most reading this will live to see which road is taken.

The following is a proposal which offers the parties an opportunity to take the road of peace by resolving the MidEast conflict in a decisive, permanent and timely manner.

To prepare ourselves for such a wonderful future, we must first pay the price of saying goodbye to a tragic past.



Saying Goodbye To The Past

Before we consider the solution offered below, it's important for us to be resolutely clear about what has been tried already and proven beyond not to work. As the saying goes, repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of stupidity.

Any benefit a reader might receive from this article will necessarily be built upon their willingness to face a well documented fact that nothing which has been tried so far over the last six decades has succeeded in resolving the MidEast conflict.

Not war or threats of war, not negotiation, not a finger pointing blame game, not analysis and talk, not experts, not American mediation, not the management of captive populations, not economic development, not clever technology, not waiting and hoping things will somehow get better.

None of it. None of it has worked.

Despite all these endlessly repeated efforts exerted over such a long period of time by so many so capable people, Israelis still don't have the peace and security they yearn for, and the Palestinians still don't have the freedom and land they so desperately desire. Both parties may instead be careening ever closer towards an uncontrollable descent in to chaos.

If a reader can squarely face the failure of all that has come before, if they can surrender the notion that repeating the same repetitive patterns over and over will somehow bring different and better results, that reader will then be on the edge of seeing a permanent peace which can satisfy the core demands of all parties to the conflict.



The Path To A Real And Permanent Peace

Like all peoples, the Israelis long for a durable peace, security and freedom, a safe place to raise their children and build a prosperous future. The whole point of establishing the state of Israel was to secure these worthy goals.

The bad news is that such a place will never exist for Jews in the Middle East. Three major wars, multiple uprising, waves of terrorist attacks, and six decades of never ending insecurity, hostility and death prove this beyond all doubt. So much blood has been spilled, so much hatred invoked, over such a period of time, that there is now no chance of a real peace within the lifetimes of anyone currently living.

In fact, the stable secure peace that Israelis seek may not exist for anyone in the entire Middle East for a century to come, as the Arab world is not only in conflict with Israel, but with itself.

How will Israel create a true lasting peace with it's neighbors if those countries should dissolve in to religious, political and economic chaos, a possibility which is looking increasingly likely? Israel should not confuse a history of defeating it's neighbor's strengths with an ability to survive their very real weaknesses.

The path to a permanent peace will be built upon a realistic recognition that the tragedy of Zionism is that it's a very noble goal, married to a very bad plan. A great race, led to exactly the wrong place. A very understandable mistake, made by brilliant and brave people, with a potentially catastrophic outcome.

The good news is that there is an excellent solution available which could accomplish the most fundamental goals of Zionism in a breathtakingly short period of time.

The good news is that the safest, most secure and prosperous place on Earth would welcome the people of Israel with open arms.

The good news is that the Jewish people can find everything they've been seeking for centuries in the United States.



What Is The Bottom Line?

Yes, ok, I know, I'm about to lose a great many of our Israeli friends. Ok, I hear you, leaving the Holy Land will definitely not be a welcome proposal for many.

But before you go, perhaps you might help us understand....

What is most important to you?

- An ever threatened Jewish state eternally in conflict with it's crumbling neighbors?

- Or the best peace, security and prosperity available on the planet Earth for your children?

What will your grandchildren inherit from you? What is it that you want most for your descendants? What is your bottom line?



Welcome To America!

The people of the United States would welcome the ingenius Jews of Israel as fellow citizens. America has after all been Israel's best friend since the beginning.

The American West is full of empty federal land which can be shared with the Israeli people, who would undoubtably work miracles with it.

Anti-semitism is minimal in the United States, and there are already about as many Jews in the United States as there are in Israel.

This prosperous Jewish population of the United States would rush to assist the new immigrants, just as they have faithfully supported the state of Israel.

The billions of dollars currently spent each year on defending Israel can be reinvested in the transition and in improving the lives of Israelis of limited means.

The children of Israel would no longer be required to become soldiers. This benefit alone should be enough, shouldn't it?

The people of Israel would be once and for all liberated from corrupt fascist dictatorships, religious fanatics, murderous neighbors, incoming rockets, tunneling militants, the disrespect of much of the world community, and a long history of chronic discrimination, oppression, abuse and slaughter.

The people of Israel would instead become welcome members of the world's oldest democracy, and citizens of the most prosperous and secure nation on Earth.

Come to America Israel, there is no faster, more reliable and durable way to secure the fundamental goals of Zionism.

Giving up the ancient dream of Israel will be a painful price for many without question. Peace will not come for free. We can't ignore that a true sacrifice is required.

But in return for that significant sacrifice Israelis would receive the assurance that their children will not perish in the firestorm which must inevitably envelope the Middle East sooner or later if this conflict is not resolved.

This peace does not require war, death and suffering to achieve. This peace does not require danger or risk. This peace does not require endlessly unsuccessful negotiations with former and current terrorists. This peace does not require trust in pieces of paper, or the promises of those who seek Israel's extermination. This peace does not make the security of Jews dependent on what their enemies do or don't do now or in the future.

This peace does not require waiting. Why should Israelis wait even more generations for the Palestinians to give them peace, when they can grasp the peace they seek all by themselves right now?

Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America.



The Price Of Failure

We should recall that population-wise Israel is smaller than New York City. While the state of Israel contains some of the world's most capable people, eight million citizens still makes for a tiny country.

To complicate matters further, Arabs are outproducing Jews within Israel. This means that at some point Israelis will face a lose/lose choice between surrendering their Jewish state, or surrendering their democracy. Both of these outcomes would destroy the soul of Israel.

Israel has already lost the public relations war in Europe and most other parts of the world, and is steadily losing ground in United States as well. Whether this is just and fair and right does not matter. It simply does not matter. What matters is that the Palestinians are winning the decisive public relationship battle. The same underdog sympathy which was crucial to the establishment of Israel is now being aimed at the Palestinians.

And that means the people of Israel will be ever more isolated and alone within the world community as we dive deeper in to an ever more globalized 21st century. If the conflict continues endlessly, sooner or later Israel will have no friends anywhere, and 8 million Jews will fight for their survival against 200 million Arabs completely on their own. This is what losing the public relations battle inevitably entails.

We might also recall that Israel's defenders have to win every single time, forever. But Israel's enemies only have to win once, just once.

Each year that passes without a resolution to the MidEast conflict is like another turn of the pistol barrel in a game of Russian roulette. While Israel looks invulnerable now, change is the one thing we can always count on, and sooner or later the chamber will contain a bullet.

Even the ancient story of Israel teaches us that whatever the ever brave and brilliant Jews construct, the changing tides of history can quickly sweep away. It's true for all of us.

The 21st century is going to be an era of unprecedented carnage, just as previous centuries have been. Technology is racing forward at an ever accelerating rate which further empowers everybody, including the bad guys. There is little chance the great powers can do more than slow the spread of weapons of mass destruction, given that they can't even liberate themselves from those weapons.

Sooner or later the murderous bad guys will get lucky and figure out how to deploy weapons of mass destruction within the tiny country of Israel, and surely other countries as well.

One bad day, one miscalculation, one unlucky break, one failure one time, one push of a button, that's all it would take to push Israel in to chaos. Israel could be gone in a day, an hour, in the time it takes to read this article. Welcome to the 21st century.

This is an unthinkable future, but it is coming nonetheless. The Iron Dome will not stop it from coming. The IDF can not win every single battle, forever. The Israelis can not out smart everybody, always. Nobody overcomes every single challenge from now until the end of time.

I beg our Israeli friends not to confuse their amazing accomplishments of the past with an ability to manage any future which might come. Israel has too many enemies. It is too small to survive the emerging mass destruction era of the 21st century. This reality must be faced with humility if the people of Israel are to be spared a Second Holocaust. All of us across the world must surrender our hubris if we are to save our kids.

While this is a grim tale indeed, all the epic suffering coming to the Middle East can be avoided. There is an abundance of good news here for anyone who wants peace, and is willing to act decisively to achieve it.

The people of Israel can choose their children's future over an ancient Zionist dream. If they do, all the peace, security and prosperity they so desire and deserve can be theirs. Not maybe someday in future generations, but for sure, today.

Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America. You'll never find in Israel what is already waiting for you here in America right now.

There was and maybe there is a chance for a different solution...Accept the Arab League peace proposal for Peace, Recognition, and Trade...Israel has the power and know-how to help their neighbors awake from their medieval economies...Prosperous people abhor war and conflict...

Look at Israel's Arab citizens, peaceful, industrious and happy to live in Israel Proper...

A real just peace is on the table, defuse it now or die later, the Horde has History, numbers and human dynamics of change on their side...

 

[irosie91]

There was and maybe there is a chance for a different solution...Accept the Arab League peace proposal for Peace, Recognition, and Trade...Israel has the power and know-how to help their neighbors awake from their medieval economies...Prosperous people abhor war and conflict...

Look at Israel's Arab citizens, peaceful, industrious and happy to live in Israel Proper...

A real just peace is on the table, defuse it now or die later, the Horde has History, numbers and human dynamics of change on their side...

the arab league "peace proposal" is nothing more than
a bid for a "DO OVER" of the 1967 war. The issue was
the FACT of Israel's vulnerability-----based on geography-----
You and your fellow islamo Nazis were so CONFIDENT that the geographical vulnerability would GIVE IT AWAY and you
seek another chance-------it ain't happening. HUMANS---is a biological system------therefore UNPREDICTABLE -----
your predictions are worhless to the point of mirth

 

[Mojo2]

If you can't bother to type your points, I can't be bothered to watch YouTube videos.

You are a simple woman.

Simple.

Education and Information are their own rewards.

Don't do it for me.

Do it for your own sense of curiosity.

Do it so you won't be on the losing side of so many debates.

Watch it so you KNOW you are on the right (or wrong side) of the argument.

Watch it to better debate your opponent.

Do it so you will be authoritative on the subject.

Do it because you want to show all who might disagree, that Liberals really do care about which side is right. And not just which side can win the argument.

Watch the video so you won't be thought "an ignorant slut."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80nW6AOhTs

R.I.P. The Voice of SNL, Don Pardo.

 

[toastman]

Greetings All,

Thank you for taking the time to consider my remarks.

This article proposes that the Mideast conflict between Israel and Palestine is approaching a historic fork in the road.

Down one road lies a dramatic success in which almost all the goals of all the parties are met in an irrevocable permanent manner. Down the other road lies a dramatic failure of biblical proportions. Most reading this will live to see which road is taken.

The following is a proposal which offers the parties an opportunity to take the road of peace by resolving the MidEast conflict in a decisive, permanent and timely manner.

To prepare ourselves for such a wonderful future, we must first pay the price of saying goodbye to a tragic past.



Saying Goodbye To The Past

Before we consider the solution offered below, it's important for us to be resolutely clear about what has been tried already and proven beyond not to work. As the saying goes, repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of stupidity.

Any benefit a reader might receive from this article will necessarily be built upon their willingness to face a well documented fact that nothing which has been tried so far over the last six decades has succeeded in resolving the MidEast conflict.

Not war or threats of war, not negotiation, not a finger pointing blame game, not analysis and talk, not experts, not American mediation, not the management of captive populations, not economic development, not clever technology, not waiting and hoping things will somehow get better.

None of it. None of it has worked.

Despite all these endlessly repeated efforts exerted over such a long period of time by so many so capable people, Israelis still don't have the peace and security they yearn for, and the Palestinians still don't have the freedom and land they so desperately desire. Both parties may instead be careening ever closer towards an uncontrollable descent in to chaos.

If a reader can squarely face the failure of all that has come before, if they can surrender the notion that repeating the same repetitive patterns over and over will somehow bring different and better results, that reader will then be on the edge of seeing a permanent peace which can satisfy the core demands of all parties to the conflict.



The Path To A Real And Permanent Peace

Like all peoples, the Israelis long for a durable peace, security and freedom, a safe place to raise their children and build a prosperous future. The whole point of establishing the state of Israel was to secure these worthy goals.

The bad news is that such a place will never exist for Jews in the Middle East. Three major wars, multiple uprising, waves of terrorist attacks, and six decades of never ending insecurity, hostility and death prove this beyond all doubt. So much blood has been spilled, so much hatred invoked, over such a period of time, that there is now no chance of a real peace within the lifetimes of anyone currently living.

In fact, the stable secure peace that Israelis seek may not exist for anyone in the entire Middle East for a century to come, as the Arab world is not only in conflict with Israel, but with itself.

How will Israel create a true lasting peace with it's neighbors if those countries should dissolve in to religious, political and economic chaos, a possibility which is looking increasingly likely? Israel should not confuse a history of defeating it's neighbor's strengths with an ability to survive their very real weaknesses.

The path to a permanent peace will be built upon a realistic recognition that the tragedy of Zionism is that it's a very noble goal, married to a very bad plan. A great race, led to exactly the wrong place. A very understandable mistake, made by brilliant and brave people, with a potentially catastrophic outcome.

The good news is that there is an excellent solution available which could accomplish the most fundamental goals of Zionism in a breathtakingly short period of time.

The good news is that the safest, most secure and prosperous place on Earth would welcome the people of Israel with open arms.

The good news is that the Jewish people can find everything they've been seeking for centuries in the United States.



What Is The Bottom Line?

Yes, ok, I know, I'm about to lose a great many of our Israeli friends. Ok, I hear you, leaving the Holy Land will definitely not be a welcome proposal for many.

But before you go, perhaps you might help us understand....

What is most important to you?

- An ever threatened Jewish state eternally in conflict with it's crumbling neighbors?

- Or the best peace, security and prosperity available on the planet Earth for your children?

What will your grandchildren inherit from you? What is it that you want most for your descendants? What is your bottom line?



Welcome To America!

The people of the United States would welcome the ingenius Jews of Israel as fellow citizens. America has after all been Israel's best friend since the beginning.

The American West is full of empty federal land which can be shared with the Israeli people, who would undoubtably work miracles with it.

Anti-semitism is minimal in the United States, and there are already about as many Jews in the United States as there are in Israel.

This prosperous Jewish population of the United States would rush to assist the new immigrants, just as they have faithfully supported the state of Israel.

The billions of dollars currently spent each year on defending Israel can be reinvested in the transition and in improving the lives of Israelis of limited means.

The children of Israel would no longer be required to become soldiers. This benefit alone should be enough, shouldn't it?

The people of Israel would be once and for all liberated from corrupt fascist dictatorships, religious fanatics, murderous neighbors, incoming rockets, tunneling militants, the disrespect of much of the world community, and a long history of chronic discrimination, oppression, abuse and slaughter.

The people of Israel would instead become welcome members of the world's oldest democracy, and citizens of the most prosperous and secure nation on Earth.

Come to America Israel, there is no faster, more reliable and durable way to secure the fundamental goals of Zionism.

Giving up the ancient dream of Israel will be a painful price for many without question. Peace will not come for free. We can't ignore that a true sacrifice is required.

But in return for that significant sacrifice Israelis would receive the assurance that their children will not perish in the firestorm which must inevitably envelope the Middle East sooner or later if this conflict is not resolved.

This peace does not require war, death and suffering to achieve. This peace does not require danger or risk. This peace does not require endlessly unsuccessful negotiations with former and current terrorists. This peace does not require trust in pieces of paper, or the promises of those who seek Israel's extermination. This peace does not make the security of Jews dependent on what their enemies do or don't do now or in the future.

This peace does not require waiting. Why should Israelis wait even more generations for the Palestinians to give them peace, when they can grasp the peace they seek all by themselves right now?

Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America.



The Price Of Failure

We should recall that population-wise Israel is smaller than New York City. While the state of Israel contains some of the world's most capable people, eight million citizens still makes for a tiny country.

To complicate matters further, Arabs are outproducing Jews within Israel. This means that at some point Israelis will face a lose/lose choice between surrendering their Jewish state, or surrendering their democracy. Both of these outcomes would destroy the soul of Israel.

Israel has already lost the public relations war in Europe and most other parts of the world, and is steadily losing ground in United States as well. Whether this is just and fair and right does not matter. It simply does not matter. What matters is that the Palestinians are winning the decisive public relationship battle. The same underdog sympathy which was crucial to the establishment of Israel is now being aimed at the Palestinians.

And that means the people of Israel will be ever more isolated and alone within the world community as we dive deeper in to an ever more globalized 21st century. If the conflict continues endlessly, sooner or later Israel will have no friends anywhere, and 8 million Jews will fight for their survival against 200 million Arabs completely on their own. This is what losing the public relations battle inevitably entails.

We might also recall that Israel's defenders have to win every single time, forever. But Israel's enemies only have to win once, just once.

Each year that passes without a resolution to the MidEast conflict is like another turn of the pistol barrel in a game of Russian roulette. While Israel looks invulnerable now, change is the one thing we can always count on, and sooner or later the chamber will contain a bullet.

Even the ancient story of Israel teaches us that whatever the ever brave and brilliant Jews construct, the changing tides of history can quickly sweep away. It's true for all of us.

The 21st century is going to be an era of unprecedented carnage, just as previous centuries have been. Technology is racing forward at an ever accelerating rate which further empowers everybody, including the bad guys. There is little chance the great powers can do more than slow the spread of weapons of mass destruction, given that they can't even liberate themselves from those weapons.

Sooner or later the murderous bad guys will get lucky and figure out how to deploy weapons of mass destruction within the tiny country of Israel, and surely other countries as well.

One bad day, one miscalculation, one unlucky break, one failure one time, one push of a button, that's all it would take to push Israel in to chaos. Israel could be gone in a day, an hour, in the time it takes to read this article. Welcome to the 21st century.

This is an unthinkable future, but it is coming nonetheless. The Iron Dome will not stop it from coming. The IDF can not win every single battle, forever. The Israelis can not out smart everybody, always. Nobody overcomes every single challenge from now until the end of time.

I beg our Israeli friends not to confuse their amazing accomplishments of the past with an ability to manage any future which might come. Israel has too many enemies. It is too small to survive the emerging mass destruction era of the 21st century. This reality must be faced with humility if the people of Israel are to be spared a Second Holocaust. All of us across the world must surrender our hubris if we are to save our kids.

While this is a grim tale indeed, all the epic suffering coming to the Middle East can be avoided. There is an abundance of good news here for anyone who wants peace, and is willing to act decisively to achieve it.

The people of Israel can choose their children's future over an ancient Zionist dream. If they do, all the peace, security and prosperity they so desire and deserve can be theirs. Not maybe someday in future generations, but for sure, today.

Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America. You'll never find in Israel what is already waiting for you here in America right now.

There was and maybe there is a chance for a different solution...Accept the Arab League peace proposal for Peace, Recognition, and Trade...Israel has the power and know-how to help their neighbors awake from their medieval economies...Prosperous people abhor war and conflict...

Look at Israel's Arab citizens, peaceful, industrious and happy to live in Israel Proper...

A real just peace is on the table, defuse it now or die later, the Horde has History, numbers and human dynamics of change on their side...

Pbel we've been through this before. The PA wants right of return as well, not just '67 borders.
And Israel is not willing to give up sovereignty over E. Jerusalem. You really think they would let Palestinians guard their most holy sites?

 

[pbel]

Yes, and what is the result of all that negotiation? Not peace and security for the Jewish people. At some point we should recognize the bankruptcy of that process.



Except that Israel does not have the ability to make the entire middle east under Israeli control.

Please recall that Arab muslims have repulsed many waves of invasion from westerners over many centuries. They go underground, they bleed the invader, they wait patiently, and eventually the invader leaves.

The most recent example of this is the US invasion of Iraq. The strongest nation on Earth failed to bring Iraq under American control, and we see the result in today's headlines, the murderous fascist psychopaths are back and on the march again.

Eventually one of these warlords will succeed in uniting the Arab world in to a single large country. All the little Arab countries are mostly an invention of invading western imperialists.

The Zionist answer especially on these boards to those Historical facts has always been humbug, we have the bomb not realizing that having it insures her destruction as Muslims will use it if this conflict goes on...Saudi Arabia paid for Pakistan's nukes and nuclear parity will accelerate in the future...

Greetings All,

Thank you for taking the time to consider my remarks.

This article proposes that the Mideast conflict between Israel and Palestine is approaching a historic fork in the road.

Down one road lies a dramatic success in which almost all the goals of all the parties are met in an irrevocable permanent manner. Down the other road lies a dramatic failure of biblical proportions. Most reading this will live to see which road is taken.

The following is a proposal which offers the parties an opportunity to take the road of peace by resolving the MidEast conflict in a decisive, permanent and timely manner.

To prepare ourselves for such a wonderful future, we must first pay the price of saying goodbye to a tragic past.



Saying Goodbye To The Past

Before we consider the solution offered below, it's important for us to be resolutely clear about what has been tried already and proven beyond not to work. As the saying goes, repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of stupidity.

Any benefit a reader might receive from this article will necessarily be built upon their willingness to face a well documented fact that nothing which has been tried so far over the last six decades has succeeded in resolving the MidEast conflict.

Not war or threats of war, not negotiation, not a finger pointing blame game, not analysis and talk, not experts, not American mediation, not the management of captive populations, not economic development, not clever technology, not waiting and hoping things will somehow get better.

None of it. None of it has worked.

Despite all these endlessly repeated efforts exerted over such a long period of time by so many so capable people, Israelis still don't have the peace and security they yearn for, and the Palestinians still don't have the freedom and land they so desperately desire. Both parties may instead be careening ever closer towards an uncontrollable descent in to chaos.

If a reader can squarely face the failure of all that has come before, if they can surrender the notion that repeating the same repetitive patterns over and over will somehow bring different and better results, that reader will then be on the edge of seeing a permanent peace which can satisfy the core demands of all parties to the conflict.



The Path To A Real And Permanent Peace

Like all peoples, the Israelis long for a durable peace, security and freedom, a safe place to raise their children and build a prosperous future. The whole point of establishing the state of Israel was to secure these worthy goals.

The bad news is that such a place will never exist for Jews in the Middle East. Three major wars, multiple uprising, waves of terrorist attacks, and six decades of never ending insecurity, hostility and death prove this beyond all doubt. So much blood has been spilled, so much hatred invoked, over such a period of time, that there is now no chance of a real peace within the lifetimes of anyone currently living.

In fact, the stable secure peace that Israelis seek may not exist for anyone in the entire Middle East for a century to come, as the Arab world is not only in conflict with Israel, but with itself.

How will Israel create a true lasting peace with it's neighbors if those countries should dissolve in to religious, political and economic chaos, a possibility which is looking increasingly likely? Israel should not confuse a history of defeating it's neighbor's strengths with an ability to survive their very real weaknesses.

The path to a permanent peace will be built upon a realistic recognition that the tragedy of Zionism is that it's a very noble goal, married to a very bad plan. A great race, led to exactly the wrong place. A very understandable mistake, made by brilliant and brave people, with a potentially catastrophic outcome.

The good news is that there is an excellent solution available which could accomplish the most fundamental goals of Zionism in a breathtakingly short period of time.

The good news is that the safest, most secure and prosperous place on Earth would welcome the people of Israel with open arms.

The good news is that the Jewish people can find everything they've been seeking for centuries in the United States.



What Is The Bottom Line?

Yes, ok, I know, I'm about to lose a great many of our Israeli friends. Ok, I hear you, leaving the Holy Land will definitely not be a welcome proposal for many.

But before you go, perhaps you might help us understand....

What is most important to you?

- An ever threatened Jewish state eternally in conflict with it's crumbling neighbors?

- Or the best peace, security and prosperity available on the planet Earth for your children?

What will your grandchildren inherit from you? What is it that you want most for your descendants? What is your bottom line?



Welcome To America!

The people of the United States would welcome the ingenius Jews of Israel as fellow citizens. America has after all been Israel's best friend since the beginning.

The American West is full of empty federal land which can be shared with the Israeli people, who would undoubtably work miracles with it.

Anti-semitism is minimal in the United States, and there are already about as many Jews in the United States as there are in Israel.

This prosperous Jewish population of the United States would rush to assist the new immigrants, just as they have faithfully supported the state of Israel.

The billions of dollars currently spent each year on defending Israel can be reinvested in the transition and in improving the lives of Israelis of limited means.

The children of Israel would no longer be required to become soldiers. This benefit alone should be enough, shouldn't it?

The people of Israel would be once and for all liberated from corrupt fascist dictatorships, religious fanatics, murderous neighbors, incoming rockets, tunneling militants, the disrespect of much of the world community, and a long history of chronic discrimination, oppression, abuse and slaughter.

The people of Israel would instead become welcome members of the world's oldest democracy, and citizens of the most prosperous and secure nation on Earth.

Come to America Israel, there is no faster, more reliable and durable way to secure the fundamental goals of Zionism.

Giving up the ancient dream of Israel will be a painful price for many without question. Peace will not come for free. We can't ignore that a true sacrifice is required.

But in return for that significant sacrifice Israelis would receive the assurance that their children will not perish in the firestorm which must inevitably envelope the Middle East sooner or later if this conflict is not resolved.

This peace does not require war, death and suffering to achieve. This peace does not require danger or risk. This peace does not require endlessly unsuccessful negotiations with former and current terrorists. This peace does not require trust in pieces of paper, or the promises of those who seek Israel's extermination. This peace does not make the security of Jews dependent on what their enemies do or don't do now or in the future.

This peace does not require waiting. Why should Israelis wait even more generations for the Palestinians to give them peace, when they can grasp the peace they seek all by themselves right now?

Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America.



The Price Of Failure

We should recall that population-wise Israel is smaller than New York City. While the state of Israel contains some of the world's most capable people, eight million citizens still makes for a tiny country.

To complicate matters further, Arabs are outproducing Jews within Israel. This means that at some point Israelis will face a lose/lose choice between surrendering their Jewish state, or surrendering their democracy. Both of these outcomes would destroy the soul of Israel.

Israel has already lost the public relations war in Europe and most other parts of the world, and is steadily losing ground in United States as well. Whether this is just and fair and right does not matter. It simply does not matter. What matters is that the Palestinians are winning the decisive public relationship battle. The same underdog sympathy which was crucial to the establishment of Israel is now being aimed at the Palestinians.

And that means the people of Israel will be ever more isolated and alone within the world community as we dive deeper in to an ever more globalized 21st century. If the conflict continues endlessly, sooner or later Israel will have no friends anywhere, and 8 million Jews will fight for their survival against 200 million Arabs completely on their own. This is what losing the public relations battle inevitably entails.

We might also recall that Israel's defenders have to win every single time, forever. But Israel's enemies only have to win once, just once.

Each year that passes without a resolution to the MidEast conflict is like another turn of the pistol barrel in a game of Russian roulette. While Israel looks invulnerable now, change is the one thing we can always count on, and sooner or later the chamber will contain a bullet.

Even the ancient story of Israel teaches us that whatever the ever brave and brilliant Jews construct, the changing tides of history can quickly sweep away. It's true for all of us.

The 21st century is going to be an era of unprecedented carnage, just as previous centuries have been. Technology is racing forward at an ever accelerating rate which further empowers everybody, including the bad guys. There is little chance the great powers can do more than slow the spread of weapons of mass destruction, given that they can't even liberate themselves from those weapons.

Sooner or later the murderous bad guys will get lucky and figure out how to deploy weapons of mass destruction within the tiny country of Israel, and surely other countries as well.

One bad day, one miscalculation, one unlucky break, one failure one time, one push of a button, that's all it would take to push Israel in to chaos. Israel could be gone in a day, an hour, in the time it takes to read this article. Welcome to the 21st century.

This is an unthinkable future, but it is coming nonetheless. The Iron Dome will not stop it from coming. The IDF can not win every single battle, forever. The Israelis can not out smart everybody, always. Nobody overcomes every single challenge from now until the end of time.

I beg our Israeli friends not to confuse their amazing accomplishments of the past with an ability to manage any future which might come. Israel has too many enemies. It is too small to survive the emerging mass destruction era of the 21st century. This reality must be faced with humility if the people of Israel are to be spared a Second Holocaust. All of us across the world must surrender our hubris if we are to save our kids.

While this is a grim tale indeed, all the epic suffering coming to the Middle East can be avoided. There is an abundance of good news here for anyone who wants peace, and is willing to act decisively to achieve it.

The people of Israel can choose their children's future over an ancient Zionist dream. If they do, all the peace, security and prosperity they so desire and deserve can be theirs. Not maybe someday in future generations, but for sure, today.

Come to America our Israeli friends, come to America. You'll never find in Israel what is already waiting for you here in America right now.

There was and maybe there is a chance for a different solution...Accept the Arab League peace proposal for Peace, Recognition, and Trade...Israel has the power and know-how to help their neighbors awake from their medieval economies...Prosperous people abhor war and conflict...

Look at Israel's Arab citizens, peaceful, industrious and happy to live in Israel Proper...

A real just peace is on the table, defuse it now or die later, the Horde has History, numbers and human dynamics of change on their side...

Pbel we've been through this before. The PA wants right of return as well, not just '67 borders.
And Israel is not willing to give up sovereignty over E. Jerusalem. You really think they would let Palestinians guard their most holy sites?

I believe the right of return is ludicrous except to reunite families on a case by case basis...E. Jerusalem should be a Capital for both, nothing else is acceptable by anyone...