A real step up, unlike EV's

[Mr. H.]

You aren't required to buy a Tesla.

Not yet, anyway. Once the Green Liberal agenda has succeeded in killing and burying all hydrocarbon supply, we will have no choice.

Actually, the Republican do nothing policy will spell the end of fossil fuels well before responsible use will.

How so, Joe?

 

[PMZ]

Not yet, anyway. Once the Green Liberal agenda has succeeded in killing and burying all hydrocarbon supply, we will have no choice.

Actually, the Republican do nothing policy will spell the end of fossil fuels well before responsible use will.

How so, Joe?

They promote wasting it now and not building our capability to replace it.

 

[Politico]

There are solutions a lot cheaper than Hydrogen.

 

[Abraham3]

Like what?

 

[Abraham3]

Not impressed by the acceleration stats Goldirocks. Its the same vehicle technology except for the electric generator. Anything you can design in a Tesla S car you can do with a FCEV.

Honda has a Home Hydrogen Fueling Station that doesnt even require a compressor. Downside is that it loads as the hydrogen is produced. Thus the rate is about the same as a standard EV. about 8 hours.. Includes the Solar panels and enough storage to produce the hydrogen at night..

OK. so post us the stats of a fuel cell vehicle that competes with a Tesla.

20 years ago, I was quite enthusiastic about fuel cell vehicles. However, the hydrogen storage systems and current densities have lagged behind the technology in the batteries. Possibly a hybrid system using super caps, or high density batteries for acceleration could be worked out.

With both technologies, price is a present barrier, with batteries looking like they will reduce the cost before the fuel cells.

Not interested in drag racing and I have no doubt that there is no fundamental design spec that prohibits FCEVs from winning a 1/4 mile against Tesla. You have some misconception that a ton of baterries producing high voltage is an advantage. Dont NEED supercaps or batteries.. Can step up voltage with a 10dollar DC converot and a ferrite coil.

Not an issue. Only frauds have to go on marketing hype and sex like Tesla.....

But voltage ain't power, is it.

 

[flacaltenn]

OK. so post us the stats of a fuel cell vehicle that competes with a Tesla.

20 years ago, I was quite enthusiastic about fuel cell vehicles. However, the hydrogen storage systems and current densities have lagged behind the technology in the batteries. Possibly a hybrid system using super caps, or high density batteries for acceleration could be worked out.

With both technologies, price is a present barrier, with batteries looking like they will reduce the cost before the fuel cells.

Not interested in drag racing and I have no doubt that there is no fundamental design spec that prohibits FCEVs from winning a 1/4 mile against Tesla. You have some misconception that a ton of baterries producing high voltage is an advantage. Dont NEED supercaps or batteries.. Can step up voltage with a 10dollar DC converot and a ferrite coil.

Not an issue. Only frauds have to go on marketing hype and sex like Tesla.....

But voltage ain't power, is it.

Motors are voltage driven. The amount of power they can handle is a secondary spec.. Typically, you OVERDRIVE the voltage rating of the motor on acceleration.. Either by "chopping" to reduce the energy or other means. So HIGH VOLTAGE is critical to acceleration..

There is no fundamental disadvantage to the amount of Volt * Current power available to accelerate 4 wheel motors in a FCEV...


Hyundai ix35 FCEV Review | Autocar

Hyundai says they get 150Hpower off their current FCells. And OK -- they do use a supercap or small battery to store some power for acceleration. But that's to cost reduce the MAX output of the fuel cell..

When cost is no longer the holy grail -- that will change..

 

[PMZ]

Not interested in drag racing and I have no doubt that there is no fundamental design spec that prohibits FCEVs from winning a 1/4 mile against Tesla. You have some misconception that a ton of baterries producing high voltage is an advantage. Dont NEED supercaps or batteries.. Can step up voltage with a 10dollar DC converot and a ferrite coil.

Not an issue. Only frauds have to go on marketing hype and sex like Tesla.....

But voltage ain't power, is it.

Motors are voltage driven. The amount of power they can handle is a secondary spec.. Typically, you OVERDRIVE the voltage rating of the motor on acceleration.. Either by "chopping" to reduce the energy or other means. So HIGH VOLTAGE is critical to acceleration..

There is no fundamental disadvantage to the amount of Volt * Current power available to accelerate 4 wheel motors in a FCEV...


Hyundai ix35 FCEV Review | Autocar

Hyundai says they get 150Hpower off their current FCells. And OK -- they do use a supercap or small battery to store some power for acceleration. But that's to cost reduce the MAX output of the fuel cell..

When cost is no longer the holy grail -- that will change..

Between motors and gearboxes, power is power. Any power (speed and torque) can be turned into any other speed or torque. Auto electric motors are usually high voltage to keep the current down, and motor physical size smaller.

 

[Flopper]

Coming soon to a dealership near you, hydrogen powered cars! I can't wait!

At auto shows on two continents Wednesday, three automakers unveiled hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to be delivered to the general public as early as next spring.

Hyundai Motor Co. will be the first to the mass market in the U.S. It unveiled a hydrogen-powered Tucson small SUV at the Los Angeles Auto Show that will be leased to consumers. Honda also revealed plans in Los Angeles for a car due out in 2015. Earlier, at the Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota promised a mass-produced fuel cell car by 2015 in Japan and 2016 in the U.S.

Hydrogen cars are appealing because unlike electric vehicles, they have the range of a typical gasoline car and can be refueled quickly. Experts say the industry also has overcome safety and reliability concerns that have hindered distribution in the past.

But hydrogen cars still have a glaring downside — refueling stations are scarce, and costly to build.

Consumers can expect costs in line with some luxury models. In Tokyo, Toyota promised a price of $50,000 to $100,000, and as close to the lower figure as possible. That's comparable to its Lexus luxury sedans, but a range that makes the once space-age experiment with fuel cells more credible.

Hyundai said it will lease the Tucsons for $499 per month for three years with $3,000 down. And Hyundai is offering to pay the hydrogen and maintenance costs. The company will start leasing in the Los Angeles area, where most of the state's nine fueling stations are located. California lawmakers have allocated $100 million to build 100 more. Honda wouldn't reveal any pricing details.

Hydrogen cars could be headed to showroom near you - Yahoo Finance

The disadvantages of hydrogen fuel cell cars far outweigh the benefits that they provide. Production of hydrogen that won't cause pollution is not cost effective yet and other methods of production will cause just as much pollution as cars burning gasoline. Also, hydrogen fuel cell cars would require an entirely new infrastructure to be built around the country. One day these cars may be the solution to our global warming problem, but that day looks to be very far into the future.

I'm sure there will be a small market, not as big as electric cars and certainly only a small fraction of the market size for hybrids. Putting new technologies on the market often spurs innovation which is something hydrogen powered vehicles need.

The Disadvantages of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com

 

[PMZ]

Coming soon to a dealership near you, hydrogen powered cars! I can't wait!

At auto shows on two continents Wednesday, three automakers unveiled hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to be delivered to the general public as early as next spring.

Hyundai Motor Co. will be the first to the mass market in the U.S. It unveiled a hydrogen-powered Tucson small SUV at the Los Angeles Auto Show that will be leased to consumers. Honda also revealed plans in Los Angeles for a car due out in 2015. Earlier, at the Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota promised a mass-produced fuel cell car by 2015 in Japan and 2016 in the U.S.

Hydrogen cars are appealing because unlike electric vehicles, they have the range of a typical gasoline car and can be refueled quickly. Experts say the industry also has overcome safety and reliability concerns that have hindered distribution in the past.

But hydrogen cars still have a glaring downside — refueling stations are scarce, and costly to build.

Consumers can expect costs in line with some luxury models. In Tokyo, Toyota promised a price of $50,000 to $100,000, and as close to the lower figure as possible. That's comparable to its Lexus luxury sedans, but a range that makes the once space-age experiment with fuel cells more credible.

Hyundai said it will lease the Tucsons for $499 per month for three years with $3,000 down. And Hyundai is offering to pay the hydrogen and maintenance costs. The company will start leasing in the Los Angeles area, where most of the state's nine fueling stations are located. California lawmakers have allocated $100 million to build 100 more. Honda wouldn't reveal any pricing details.

Hydrogen cars could be headed to showroom near you - Yahoo Finance

The disadvantages of hydrogen fuel cell cars far outweigh the benefits that they provide. Production of hydrogen that won't cause pollution is not cost effective yet and other methods of production will cause just as much pollution as cars burning gasoline. Also, hydrogen fuel cell cars would require an entirely new infrastructure to be built around the country. One day these cars may be the solution to our global warming problem, but that day looks to be very far into the future.

I'm sure there will be a small market, not as big as electric cars and certainly only a small fraction of the market size for hybrids. Putting new technologies on the market often spurs innovation which is something hydrogen powered vehicles need.

The Disadvantages of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Many technologies are worth some development at this point. Fuel cells though are notoriously fussy to run.

All in all it seems like batteries stand a better chance for a home run.

 

[Flopper]

Coming soon to a dealership near you, hydrogen powered cars! I can't wait!

At auto shows on two continents Wednesday, three automakers unveiled hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to be delivered to the general public as early as next spring.

Hyundai Motor Co. will be the first to the mass market in the U.S. It unveiled a hydrogen-powered Tucson small SUV at the Los Angeles Auto Show that will be leased to consumers. Honda also revealed plans in Los Angeles for a car due out in 2015. Earlier, at the Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota promised a mass-produced fuel cell car by 2015 in Japan and 2016 in the U.S.

Hydrogen cars are appealing because unlike electric vehicles, they have the range of a typical gasoline car and can be refueled quickly. Experts say the industry also has overcome safety and reliability concerns that have hindered distribution in the past.

But hydrogen cars still have a glaring downside — refueling stations are scarce, and costly to build.

Consumers can expect costs in line with some luxury models. In Tokyo, Toyota promised a price of $50,000 to $100,000, and as close to the lower figure as possible. That's comparable to its Lexus luxury sedans, but a range that makes the once space-age experiment with fuel cells more credible.

Hyundai said it will lease the Tucsons for $499 per month for three years with $3,000 down. And Hyundai is offering to pay the hydrogen and maintenance costs. The company will start leasing in the Los Angeles area, where most of the state's nine fueling stations are located. California lawmakers have allocated $100 million to build 100 more. Honda wouldn't reveal any pricing details.

Hydrogen cars could be headed to showroom near you - Yahoo Finance

The disadvantages of hydrogen fuel cell cars far outweigh the benefits that they provide. Production of hydrogen that won't cause pollution is not cost effective yet and other methods of production will cause just as much pollution as cars burning gasoline. Also, hydrogen fuel cell cars would require an entirely new infrastructure to be built around the country. One day these cars may be the solution to our global warming problem, but that day looks to be very far into the future.

I'm sure there will be a small market, not as big as electric cars and certainly only a small fraction of the market size for hybrids. Putting new technologies on the market often spurs innovation which is something hydrogen powered vehicles need.

The Disadvantages of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Many technologies are worth some development at this point. Fuel cells though are notoriously fussy to run.

All in all it seems like batteries stand a better chance for a home run.

I agree. I would put my money on batteries at this point in time.

 

[flacaltenn]

The disadvantages of hydrogen fuel cell cars far outweigh the benefits that they provide. Production of hydrogen that won't cause pollution is not cost effective yet and other methods of production will cause just as much pollution as cars burning gasoline. Also, hydrogen fuel cell cars would require an entirely new infrastructure to be built around the country. One day these cars may be the solution to our global warming problem, but that day looks to be very far into the future.

I'm sure there will be a small market, not as big as electric cars and certainly only a small fraction of the market size for hybrids. Putting new technologies on the market often spurs innovation which is something hydrogen powered vehicles need.

The Disadvantages of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Many technologies are worth some development at this point. Fuel cells though are notoriously fussy to run.

All in all it seems like batteries stand a better chance for a home run.

I agree. I would put my money on batteries at this point in time.

Many high-ranking auto execs disagree.. The cost to move transport to the GRID is astronomical and not gonna happen with govts in hoc. And batteries are a huge toxic waste stream that we don't need.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Coming soon to a dealership near you, hydrogen powered cars! I can't wait!

At auto shows on two continents Wednesday, three automakers unveiled hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to be delivered to the general public as early as next spring.

Hyundai Motor Co. will be the first to the mass market in the U.S. It unveiled a hydrogen-powered Tucson small SUV at the Los Angeles Auto Show that will be leased to consumers. Honda also revealed plans in Los Angeles for a car due out in 2015. Earlier, at the Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota promised a mass-produced fuel cell car by 2015 in Japan and 2016 in the U.S.

Hydrogen cars are appealing because unlike electric vehicles, they have the range of a typical gasoline car and can be refueled quickly. Experts say the industry also has overcome safety and reliability concerns that have hindered distribution in the past.

But hydrogen cars still have a glaring downside — refueling stations are scarce, and costly to build.

Consumers can expect costs in line with some luxury models. In Tokyo, Toyota promised a price of $50,000 to $100,000, and as close to the lower figure as possible. That's comparable to its Lexus luxury sedans, but a range that makes the once space-age experiment with fuel cells more credible.

Hyundai said it will lease the Tucsons for $499 per month for three years with $3,000 down. And Hyundai is offering to pay the hydrogen and maintenance costs. The company will start leasing in the Los Angeles area, where most of the state's nine fueling stations are located. California lawmakers have allocated $100 million to build 100 more. Honda wouldn't reveal any pricing details.

Hydrogen cars could be headed to showroom near you - Yahoo Finance

50 g's for a box with 4 wheels?

most of 9 fueling stations?

$500/month to lease?


I'd like options myself, but just going up against costs, there's no reason for anyone to think they will cash in on a hydro station

 

[Sarah G]

Coming soon to a dealership near you, hydrogen powered cars! I can't wait!

At auto shows on two continents Wednesday, three automakers unveiled hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to be delivered to the general public as early as next spring.

Hyundai Motor Co. will be the first to the mass market in the U.S. It unveiled a hydrogen-powered Tucson small SUV at the Los Angeles Auto Show that will be leased to consumers. Honda also revealed plans in Los Angeles for a car due out in 2015. Earlier, at the Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota promised a mass-produced fuel cell car by 2015 in Japan and 2016 in the U.S.

Hydrogen cars are appealing because unlike electric vehicles, they have the range of a typical gasoline car and can be refueled quickly. Experts say the industry also has overcome safety and reliability concerns that have hindered distribution in the past.

But hydrogen cars still have a glaring downside — refueling stations are scarce, and costly to build.

Consumers can expect costs in line with some luxury models. In Tokyo, Toyota promised a price of $50,000 to $100,000, and as close to the lower figure as possible. That's comparable to its Lexus luxury sedans, but a range that makes the once space-age experiment with fuel cells more credible.

Hyundai said it will lease the Tucsons for $499 per month for three years with $3,000 down. And Hyundai is offering to pay the hydrogen and maintenance costs. The company will start leasing in the Los Angeles area, where most of the state's nine fueling stations are located. California lawmakers have allocated $100 million to build 100 more. Honda wouldn't reveal any pricing details.

Hydrogen cars could be headed to showroom near you - Yahoo Finance

Wow, that's expensive for a Hyundai.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Looks to me like we're skipping a couple of steps. Like more diesel passenger cars and natural gas powered vehicles.

Not at all. Hydrogen vehicles will be more expensive and more difficult to use for a while. The TDI's and CNG vehicles will fill the gap quite nicely.

What about gasoline, diesel or CNG powered electric cars?

Not to mistaken with hybrids that need all the batteries, but cars that have a small internal combustion engine that power an electric motor.

 

[PMZ]

Many technologies are worth some development at this point. Fuel cells though are notoriously fussy to run.

All in all it seems like batteries stand a better chance for a home run.

I agree. I would put my money on batteries at this point in time.

Many high-ranking auto execs disagree.. The cost to move transport to the GRID is astronomical and not gonna happen with govts in hoc. And batteries are a huge toxic waste stream that we don't need.

Electrical generation and distribution is funded privately.

There are battery technologies with waste stream concerns and some without.

 

[PMZ]

Looks to me like we're skipping a couple of steps. Like more diesel passenger cars and natural gas powered vehicles.

Not at all. Hydrogen vehicles will be more expensive and more difficult to use for a while. The TDI's and CNG vehicles will fill the gap quite nicely.

What about gasoline, diesel or CNG powered electric cars?

Not to mistaken with hybrids that need all the batteries, but cars that have a small internal combustion engine that power an electric motor.

All possible technologies need to be pursued.

As a Prius owner I can tell you that hybrid technology saves a lot of gasoline.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Not at all. Hydrogen vehicles will be more expensive and more difficult to use for a while. The TDI's and CNG vehicles will fill the gap quite nicely.

What about gasoline, diesel or CNG powered electric cars?

Not to mistaken with hybrids that need all the batteries, but cars that have a small internal combustion engine that power an electric motor.

All possible technologies need to be pursued.

As a Prius owner I can tell you that hybrid technology saves a lot of gasoline.

For whom are you saving all that gasoline?

 

[PMZ]

What about gasoline, diesel or CNG powered electric cars?

Not to mistaken with hybrids that need all the batteries, but cars that have a small internal combustion engine that power an electric motor.

All possible technologies need to be pursued.

As a Prius owner I can tell you that hybrid technology saves a lot of gasoline.

For whom are you saving all that gasoline?

Future generations.

Or, we can keep it in the ground and not pay for the AGW fueled consequences of putting it into the atmosphere.

Depending on economics.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

*facepalm*

m'kay.

 

[PMZ]

*facepalm*

m'kay.

Is this the sum total of your thinking?