A real step up, unlike EV's

[PMZ]

What is gained by turning electricity into hydrogen, given the inherent distribution and safety issues, rather than using the electrify directly?

None for grid energy, which is why flac specified off-grid. If you've got power available that would otherwise go to waste, then making hydrogen can be a winning solution. Or non-peak grid could qualify, but non-peak grid could just as easily be used to charge electric cars.

However, not everyone with a few solar cells can make hydrogen successfully. It's not the generation that's the issue, it's the compression. High pressure compressors are not cheap, so you'd need to be working on a pretty big scale to make it worthwhile.

Actually went thru this with Ye OleRocks awhile back. The production can be easily scaled. Even the compression part. There are a couple kits you can buy for under $500 for small scale use. A huge boon for 3rd world. The $500 kit is enough to keep your car fueled.

Estimates for a hydrogen "gas station" are now below the $150K range.

The concept of using renewables to make FUELS off-grid is a much better application for wind and solar because the FUEL IS the storage mechanism for lapses in power generation. Under those rules, it doesn't matter if the wind don't blow for an hour if your AVERAGE production of fuel is acceptable. The compression, storage and distribution part would have to be from ON GRID sources.

I'd sink money into a hydrogen fuel network that has a source of free raw materials and power.

The concept of pricing EV battery charging when sustainable power is available would have much the same effect, and would use the batteries for storage.

Like, for instance, EV chargers at work powered by roof top solar.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It's a statement, Mr. A.

The only viable "solution"? Solution to what?

Any fossil fueled car, be it diesel or CNG is operating on a fuel that has a limited availability. Hydrogen is the most plentiful element on the planet. It also offers the bonus of being non-polluting.

Surely if the automobile was invented today, no one would put an internal combustion gasoline powered engine in it.

Over 120,000 gas stations in the U.S., dispensing 360 million gallons per day. You call that "limited availability".

Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert.

Very interesting link.

 

[mamooth]

The cheapest 3000 psi mini-compressor I can find is $649, so I don't see how a kit could be made for $500. You'd need to add to that a hydrogen generator, at least 2 storage tanks, 85 psi pre-compressor and fittings.

Home << ShoeBox Compressors - The World's Smallest & Lightest 4500 PSI Compressor

 

[Mr. H.]

Any fossil fueled car, be it diesel or CNG is operating on a fuel that has a limited availability. Hydrogen is the most plentiful element on the planet. It also offers the bonus of being non-polluting.

Surely if the automobile was invented today, no one would put an internal combustion gasoline powered engine in it.

Over 120,000 gas stations in the U.S., dispensing 360 million gallons per day. You call that "limited availability".

Hydrogen-fueled cars not the best way to cut pollution, greenhouse gases and oil dependency, says expert.

Very interesting link.

It's from 10 years ago.

 

[skookerasbil]

The cheapest 3000 psi mini-compressor I can find is $649, so I don't see how a kit could be made for $500. You'd need to add to that a hydrogen generator, at least 2 storage tanks, 85 psi pre-compressor and fittings.

Home << ShoeBox Compressors - The World's Smallest & Lightest 4500 PSI Compressor

meh



wont charge my rocket.








Americans don't want to drive faggy 2 door SPECKS s0n.........every poll overwhelmingly points to that.

 

[flacaltenn]

The cheapest 3000 psi mini-compressor I can find is $649, so I don't see how a kit could be made for $500. You'd need to add to that a hydrogen generator, at least 2 storage tanks, 85 psi pre-compressor and fittings.

Home << ShoeBox Compressors - The World's Smallest & Lightest 4500 PSI Compressor

meh



wont charge my rocket.








Americans don't want to drive faggy 2 door SPECKS s0n.........every poll overwhelmingly points to that.

Question is son... When the Dark Ages return --- will you be able to FEED your ride with home-made rocket fuel??

Or will you have to go steal it from Mad Max??

 

[Abraham3]

I definitely don't want to be in a hydrogen fueled car accident. .

How much gasoline (each cup of which = one stick of dynamite) does your car hold?

 

[Sunni Man]

"Free hydrogen is extremely reactive. It is ten times more flammable than gasoline, and twenty times more explosive. And the flame of a hydrogen fire is invisible. This makes it very dangerous to work with, particularly in fueling stations and transportation vehicles. Traffic accidents would have a tendency to be catastrophic. And there is the possibility that aging vehicles could explode even without a collision."

The Myth of the Hydrogen Economy

 

[whitehall]

In the category of "no free lunch", right now the most efficient and popular way to produce hydrogen in the form (99% pure) needed for fuel is the steam reformation method which is three times more expensive than natural gas.

 

[Old Rocks]

3000 psi is dangerous pressure. Especially when you consider that this would be in homes and vehicles where the owners have little experiance or knowledge on the dangers of such pressures. Consider the number of buildings destroyed yearly in the US by natural gas leaks that involve very small pressures compared to compressing hydrogen to 3000 psi.

Having said that, I do have the plans for a complete hydrogen generating system, using swegelock tubing. But I just don't see this as practical for the average homeowner. Also, again, you have an added complexity of a fuel cell, storgage for the hydrogen, and an electric motor, versus a battery and an electric motor. And how are the fuel cells doing on energy density? Last stats I have seen on a fuel cell car listed 9 secs 0 to 60, versus 4.2 0 to 60 for the Tesla. And the prices for the fuel cell cars look just as spendy that the Tesla at present.

So, it will be the free market that decides.

 

[flacaltenn]

Not impressed by the acceleration stats Goldirocks. Its the same vehicle technology except for the electric generator. Anything you can design in a Tesla S car you can do with a FCEV.

Honda has a Home Hydrogen Fueling Station that doesnt even require a compressor. Downside is that it loads as the hydrogen is produced. Thus the rate is about the same as a standard EV. about 8 hours.. Includes the Solar panels and enough storage to produce the hydrogen at night..

 

[mamooth]

Honda is designing such a station. Which would convert natural gas to hydrogen, so it's not "generating" so much as "transforming" pre-existing energy.

Honda FCX Clarity - Home Energy Station - Official Web Site

 

[PMZ]

Honda is designing such a station. Which would convert natural gas to hydrogen, so it's not "generating" so much as "transforming" pre-existing energy.

Honda FCX Clarity - Home Energy Station - Official Web Site

Bad link I think. What are they doing with the resulting CO2?

 

[flacaltenn]

Honda is designing such a station. Which would convert natural gas to hydrogen, so it's not "generating" so much as "transforming" pre-existing energy.

Honda FCX Clarity - Home Energy Station - Official Web Site

Yeah. that's it. Don't like that deal. There's been much too much Bait and Switch on LARGE fuel cells already.. They talk about hydrogen with no exhaust but water vapor, but when the large generators are delivered, they run off nat gas..

((Demonstrations of CO2 free hydrogen production from nat gas exist. But are not ready for primetime))

A good place to browse hydrogen fuel projects is ---

Directory:Hydrogen Production - PESWiki

 

[Old Rocks]

Not impressed by the acceleration stats Goldirocks. Its the same vehicle technology except for the electric generator. Anything you can design in a Tesla S car you can do with a FCEV.

Honda has a Home Hydrogen Fueling Station that doesnt even require a compressor. Downside is that it loads as the hydrogen is produced. Thus the rate is about the same as a standard EV. about 8 hours.. Includes the Solar panels and enough storage to produce the hydrogen at night..

OK. so post us the stats of a fuel cell vehicle that competes with a Tesla.

20 years ago, I was quite enthusiastic about fuel cell vehicles. However, the hydrogen storage systems and current densities have lagged behind the technology in the batteries. Possibly a hybrid system using super caps, or high density batteries for acceleration could be worked out.

With both technologies, price is a present barrier, with batteries looking like they will reduce the cost before the fuel cells.

 

[Old Rocks]

Honda is designing such a station. Which would convert natural gas to hydrogen, so it's not "generating" so much as "transforming" pre-existing energy.

Honda FCX Clarity - Home Energy Station - Official Web Site

Yeah. that's it. Don't like that deal. There's been much too much Bait and Switch on LARGE fuel cells already.. They talk about hydrogen with no exhaust but water vapor, but when the large generators are delivered, they run off nat gas..

((Demonstrations of CO2 free hydrogen production from nat gas exist. But are not ready for primetime))

A good place to browse hydrogen fuel projects is ---

Directory:Hydrogen Production - PESWiki

You see, that is the present problem for you that advocate the fuel cells. The present batteries and the EV's that use them are allready doing prime time.

 

[flacaltenn]

Not impressed by the acceleration stats Goldirocks. Its the same vehicle technology except for the electric generator. Anything you can design in a Tesla S car you can do with a FCEV.

Honda has a Home Hydrogen Fueling Station that doesnt even require a compressor. Downside is that it loads as the hydrogen is produced. Thus the rate is about the same as a standard EV. about 8 hours.. Includes the Solar panels and enough storage to produce the hydrogen at night..

OK. so post us the stats of a fuel cell vehicle that competes with a Tesla.

20 years ago, I was quite enthusiastic about fuel cell vehicles. However, the hydrogen storage systems and current densities have lagged behind the technology in the batteries. Possibly a hybrid system using super caps, or high density batteries for acceleration could be worked out.

With both technologies, price is a present barrier, with batteries looking like they will reduce the cost before the fuel cells.

Not interested in drag racing and I have no doubt that there is no fundamental design spec that prohibits FCEVs from winning a 1/4 mile against Tesla. You have some misconception that a ton of baterries producing high voltage is an advantage. Dont NEED supercaps or batteries.. Can step up voltage with a 10dollar DC converot and a ferrite coil.

Not an issue. Only frauds have to go on marketing hype and sex like Tesla.....

 

[PMZ]

Not impressed by the acceleration stats Goldirocks. Its the same vehicle technology except for the electric generator. Anything you can design in a Tesla S car you can do with a FCEV.

Honda has a Home Hydrogen Fueling Station that doesnt even require a compressor. Downside is that it loads as the hydrogen is produced. Thus the rate is about the same as a standard EV. about 8 hours.. Includes the Solar panels and enough storage to produce the hydrogen at night..

OK. so post us the stats of a fuel cell vehicle that competes with a Tesla.

20 years ago, I was quite enthusiastic about fuel cell vehicles. However, the hydrogen storage systems and current densities have lagged behind the technology in the batteries. Possibly a hybrid system using super caps, or high density batteries for acceleration could be worked out.

With both technologies, price is a present barrier, with batteries looking like they will reduce the cost before the fuel cells.

Not interested in drag racing and I have no doubt that there is no fundamental design spec that prohibits FCEVs from winning a 1/4 mile against Tesla. You have some misconception that a ton of baterries producing high voltage is an advantage. Dont NEED supercaps or batteries.. Can step up voltage with a 10dollar DC converot and a ferrite coil.

Not an issue. Only frauds have to go on marketing hype and sex like Tesla.....

You aren't required to buy a Tesla.

 

[Mr. H.]

OK. so post us the stats of a fuel cell vehicle that competes with a Tesla.

20 years ago, I was quite enthusiastic about fuel cell vehicles. However, the hydrogen storage systems and current densities have lagged behind the technology in the batteries. Possibly a hybrid system using super caps, or high density batteries for acceleration could be worked out.

With both technologies, price is a present barrier, with batteries looking like they will reduce the cost before the fuel cells.

Not interested in drag racing and I have no doubt that there is no fundamental design spec that prohibits FCEVs from winning a 1/4 mile against Tesla. You have some misconception that a ton of baterries producing high voltage is an advantage. Dont NEED supercaps or batteries.. Can step up voltage with a 10dollar DC converot and a ferrite coil.

Not an issue. Only frauds have to go on marketing hype and sex like Tesla.....

You aren't required to buy a Tesla.

Not yet, anyway. Once the Green Liberal agenda has succeeded in killing and burying all hydrocarbon supply, we will have no choice.

 

[PMZ]

Not interested in drag racing and I have no doubt that there is no fundamental design spec that prohibits FCEVs from winning a 1/4 mile against Tesla. You have some misconception that a ton of baterries producing high voltage is an advantage. Dont NEED supercaps or batteries.. Can step up voltage with a 10dollar DC converot and a ferrite coil.

Not an issue. Only frauds have to go on marketing hype and sex like Tesla.....

You aren't required to buy a Tesla.

Not yet, anyway. Once the Green Liberal agenda has succeeded in killing and burying all hydrocarbon supply, we will have no choice.

Actually, the Republican do nothing policy will spell the end of fossil fuels well before responsible use will.