Zone1 A Major Difference of the Catholic Faith

[The Irish Ram]

Because at any point in your life, there are three possible states; you can be moving towards God, you can be moving away from God or you can be static in your walk.

If you want to believe it's as simple as "confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead," then believe that.

I on the other hand will proceed with an abundance of caution to avoid paying lip service to God.

Thing is, when we accept Christ in our lives, and receive the Holy Spirit, our name is written in the Book of Life. If our current behavior effects our redemption, He would have to have angels sitting there erasing our names, then writing them back in and then erasing, then...
Redemption is a gift.

You left out the, "then you are saved" part when you quoted Romans 10:9-11. Christ said to believe that, because He said it, so, I believe it. And He put a period at the end of that sentence. Churches remove the period and hand us a list.
Christ makes it easy on purpose:
Matt. 11:28-30 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

And not meaning to offend, but isn't praying in rote giving God lip service?

 

[Meriweather]

No, no. We finally started to respond to the attacks levied against us, by 3 Catholics here. You just jumped in at the end of the skirmish. We got tired of thread after thread about the "Catholic hating Protestants", and how ignorant of the Bible we are. I doubt you could have missed them. I don't recall you stepping in to admonish the moronic assaults directed at us.
Those threads were coming in rapid fire with no intention of stopping. And civil answers got us nowhere. We came to the point where we had been patient enough. We started giving as good as we were getting. Two have stopped.

Catholics do not hate Protestants. On the other hand, some Protestants cannot even recognize eager outreach and a chance of in depth discussion. We never "gave", we simply took what you gave and growing bored, went on to other discussions. I suggest you stop imagining fights and concentrate on Biblical history. You seem viciously pleased to call an attempt at discussion "persecution" and haughtily walk off.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Catholics do not hate Protestants. On the other hand, some Protestants cannot even recognize eager outreach and a chance of in depth discussion. We never "gave", we simply took what you gave and growing bored, went on to other discussions. I suggest you stop imagining fights and concentrate on Biblical history. You seem viciously pleased to call an attempt at discussion "persecution" and haughtily walk off.

Nope. Still here. And I know you know what threads I am referring to because you took part in them. You didn't get bored, the other discussions you went to were the next ones misery started to go after the "non Catholics". They showed up suddenly, and in succession. And everyone of them was a hit piece on Protestants. So was the poll in the flame zone that backfired. How many years have you and I posted in this forum without incident, without taking "sides"? This shit is ridiculous. And out of the three of you participating, two have stopped. Why won't you?

 

[ding]

No, no. We finally started to respond to the attacks levied against us, by 3 Catholics here. You just jumped in at the end of the skirmish. We got tired of thread after thread about the "Catholic hating Protestants", and how ignorant of the Bible we are. I doubt you could have missed them. I don't recall you stepping in to admonish the moronic assaults directed at us.
Those threads were coming in rapid fire with no intention of stopping. And civil answers got us nowhere. We came to the point where we had been patient enough. We started giving as good as we were getting. Two have stopped.

Nothing I will say is going to make you see it differently but what you are saying just isn't true. There's a couple of Catholics that like to stir up trouble with their protestant brothers and sisters but meriweather and I are not one of them.

 

[ding]

Thing is, when we accept Christ in our lives, and receive the Holy Spirit, our name is written in the Book of Life. If our current behavior effects our redemption, He would have to have angels sitting there erasing our names, then writing them back in and then erasing, then...
Redemption is a gift.

You left out the, "then you are saved" part when you quoted Romans 10:9-11. Christ said to believe that, because He said it, so, I believe it. And He put a period at the end of that sentence. Churches remove the period and hand us a list.
Christ makes it easy on purpose:
Matt. 11:28-30 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

And not meaning to offend, but isn't praying in rote giving God lip service?

I've seen many Christians - Catholics included - who claim to have Christ in their lives and not behave as if they did.

Why are we even still discussing this? Believe whatever you want to believe. I'm not here to convince you. I'm just saying what I believe. You don't have to believe it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Nothing I will say is going to make you see it differently but what you are saying just isn't true. There's a couple of Catholics that like to stir up trouble with their protestant brothers and sisters but meriweather and I are not one of them.

You're not even in the picture, Ding.
There are a few Catholics that did stir up trouble. The threads substantiate that. 2 stopped.
Moving on is a good idea. I hope this ends here. Somehow, I have my doubts.

 

[Meriweather]

I hope this ends here. Somehow, I have my doubts.

It won't. You will continue to change words and change meanings so you can pick another fight and self-righteously throw insults as those who invite you into a discussion. I am thoroughly disgusted with you and your ignorance. You can't even identify a hand extended in friendship, and that is a mistake I'll never make with you again.

Oh, by the way...take the last word. I won't be responding. You have shown your true colors and while I can take a lot, I can't take this.

 

[The Irish Ram]

K...

Isaiah 44: 22 I have swept away your offenses like a cloud, your sins like the morning mist. Return to me, for I have redeemed you.”

 

[ding]

It would be nice if things changed.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It would.

 

[Meriweather]

It would be nice if things changed.

The delicious irony of that is that we live in a world of constant change and flux. Ever consider what you wish would remain the same? For me, I wish language would have remained the same, because due to the constant change in languages, the Tower of has never really gone away. Too much of what people think the Bible says wasn't said at all.

The other irony is the more things change, the more they remain the same. Hearing some atheists scoff at "Bronze Age Superstitions" is a good example of this. So much of what they were doing to get themselves into messes they were in are the same things we are doing today which means we are still create those same kinds of messes--some on a grander scale.

 

[Libby von H]

Once again you change words and meanings. Purgatory is not a time of punishment. It is a time of purification. Do you believe you will die in perfect purity, or is it safe to assume you may still be working on ridding yourself of some bad habits/behaviors up to the day you die?

Do you believe heaven is a place where bad habits/behaviors are welcome along with your soul/spirit? Do you believe that in heaven there is a garden of bad habits, and that God is there to welcome you into his house, bad habits and all? Perhaps you picture yourself pointing to Jesus and saying, "You already punished him for all my bad habits throughout all time."

Just as darkness cannot exist in sunlight, what is bad (like habits) cannot exist in what is good. What is good expels (purifies) that which is bad. If who we are is a bundle of bad habits, how can we expect to have an existence near God? What is pure is not repelled, but drawn closer.

YEs, you have it right....and even on earth you either rectify what evil you've done or at some point you will
IF I can tell a fake "I am sorry" so can God.

 

[Meriweather]

YEs, you have it right....and even on earth you either rectify what evil you've done or at some point you will
IF I can tell a fake "I am sorry" so can God.

One homily addressing purgatory began with the question: "Do you love God as much as he deserves to be loved?" In our daily lives, what do we put ahead of God? Do sporting events have a higher priority than church or prayer? Does keeping up with the news or social media? Perhaps it is something as mundane as a yard work or cleaning house. What is put ahead of serving God? Recreation? A good book? All have daily sins we fall into, many because of a lack of focus on God and God's will.

"I'll love God when I get to heaven" seem like, "I'll put off running until the day of the race." Imagine if we showed up to any event without first practicing. Would putting off learning to love God until our face-to-face meeting with him result in the best we are capable of offering? How well did we love God yesterday? Today? And tomorrow.

Would we want to meet God with less than our best? Or might we want to spend time purifying ourselves and our love for God until the time we can offer all.

 

[Libby von H]

Why don't you know what fate awaits someone who is in Christ? The Bible tells us.

Yes, but that is WHY you are wrong., we don't know whether we are in Christ for sure.
That those who are are secure, that does not mean that YOU know you are.

 

[hadit]

Once again you change words and meanings. Purgatory is not a time of punishment. It is a time of purification. Do you believe you will die in perfect purity, or is it safe to assume you may still be working on ridding yourself of some bad habits/behaviors up to the day you die?

Do you believe heaven is a place where bad habits/behaviors are welcome along with your soul/spirit? Do you believe that in heaven there is a garden of bad habits, and that God is there to welcome you into his house, bad habits and all? Perhaps you picture yourself pointing to Jesus and saying, "You already punished him for all my bad habits throughout all time."

Just as darkness cannot exist in sunlight, what is bad (like habits) cannot exist in what is good. What is good expels (purifies) that which is bad. If who we are is a bundle of bad habits, how can we expect to have an existence near God? What is pure is not repelled, but drawn closer.

Psalm 103:12

Yes, I expect to fall on my face before God and plead Yeshua's blood over my unrighteousness. I also expect Him to say, "I've already forgiven you, nothing more needs to be said".

 

[Libby von H]

If God knows everything we do, and forgives our sins while we are in the act of committing them, then there is no left over sin that God didn't already forgive us for, or that requires us to get rid of on our own somehow. God already got rid of it while it was happening. If we are in Christ, there is nothing to condemn us for. We go straight up.

3 LOGIC errors.

It can't in any way be called 'sin' (doing what God hates and forbids) if the person doing it adds in their heart "I will sin and God will forgive" God is not the fool you are.

God knows everything but sin itself is proof that He won't accept everything.

It makes no sense to claim that the same Bible that says better to die than sin also says 'Don't sweat it about sin"

You are stupid and are promoting the sin, the very great sin,of PRESUMPTION

"The sin of presumption is the distortion or vice directly opposed to the theological virtue of hope. It is an unwarranted or habitual expectation that eternal life will be gained without God's assistance, or that salvation will be granted regardless of one's personal response to God's grace."

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, I expect to fall on my face before God and plead Yeshua's blood over my unrighteousness. I also expect Him to say, "I've already forgiven you, nothing more needs to be said".

Some seem fine with appearing before God with less than their best. This versus those who are determined to keep trying no matter how often they fail. The parable of the wedding guest is a fine reminder of even when one is an invited guest and welcome, if s/he is not wearing the right attitude, they will be shown the door. Sins are forgiven...attitude is who one is, and that is something for all to consider: Is the wrong attitude also forgiven?

Possibly we are greeted at the gates of heaven (figuratively speaking) with the question, "Would you like to see God as you are presently, or would you like to wash up before entering his presence?"

 

[hadit]

Some seem fine with appearing before God with less than their best. This versus those who are determined to keep trying no matter how often they fail. The parable of the wedding guest is a fine reminder of even when one is an invited guest and welcome, if s/he is not wearing the right attitude, they will be shown the door. Sins are forgiven...attitude is who one is, and that is something for all to consider: Is the wrong attitude also forgiven?

Attitude, interesting. I would find any attitude that says in essence, "Here I am, acceptable to you through my own efforts, God", to be appalling.

Possibly we are greeted at the gates of heaven (figuratively speaking) with the question, "Would you like to see God as you are presently, or would you like to wash up before entering his presence?"

I am reminded of the minister who was confronted by a dope smoker who defiantly asked him, "Do I have to give up pot to become a Christian?". The minister answered, "No". The smoker belligerently pulled out a blunt and asked again, "You mean I don't have to give this up to become a Christian?". The minister said, "No, you don't. You don't get wash up before you get into a shower, and you don't clean yourself up before you meet Christ. That's something that He does, and He does it completely, He will work with you on what you need to give up and what you don't." So, you see, I fully expect to be completely overwhelmed by God's holiness, completely overwhelmed by my own sinfulness in contrast to Him, and completely unable to offer the slightest defense of myself when I am in His presence. The ONLY thing I can do is plead Christ's blood, and that will be enough. Nothing I can do can in the slightest make me able to demand acceptance in that encounter.

Here's the bottom line. I believe that NO ONE will be able to offer the slightest defense of themselves when they are before God, because our sinfulness will stand in stark contrast to His holiness. I don't care how long you think you can work on yourself in Purgatory, you will not be able to stand before God and say anything about your own holiness. And, finally, I do not believe that Christ cannot completely cleanse you in a moment, that somehow, He couldn't get the job done before He called us home.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Yes, but that is WHY you are wrong., we don't know whether we are in Christ for sure.
That those who are are secure, that does not mean that YOU know you are.

If you aren't sure then the fault is in yourself. Read John over and over until it sinks in:

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned

Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

Acts 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

2 Corinth.5:29 For He hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him
^
If you are the righteousness of God, what would prevent you from entering Heaven?
Our job is to BELIEVE. I don't know how much clearer the Lord can be...

 

[Meriweather]

Attitude, interesting. I would find any attitude that says in essence, "Here I am, acceptable to you through my own efforts, God", to be appalling.

I am appalled. Seriously. That is what you get from 'attitude'? Unbelievable. But moving on.