A basic question.

[taichiliberal]

Whats sad is the very policies you champion have driven up the cost of an employee so much that the companies are forced to move their jobs overseas to avoid their product from costing to much. Now your pissed at them, so now you want to punish them with taxes, while at the same time bribe them with tax breaks.

Do you see the endless circle? Regulate and tax and you'll have to regulate some more to prevent the "cause and effect"


You shouldn't vote for a political party. You should vote for a person. And you shouldn't vote for any person that champions regulations that cause buisnesses to factor in a "cost of government compliance" to their products and services.

There's your answer

The flaw in your analogy is that companies were "forced" to outsource....that is a fallacy because these companies were already profitable....they just wanted MORE profit than the next competitor (domestic). Cheap, near-slave labor is the quickest way to achieve that profit, and outsourcing is one answer. But as our local unemployment rate rises, outsourcing is more apparent for it's abhorent greed and disregard for the American public.

We've already had a sample of your deregulation and trickle-down....the results were Enron, S&L, Wall St. and investment bank debacles that has put us in the current dilema.

YOU shouldn't support individuals that vote to protect greedy individuals that screw the country.....and since the GOP votes lock step, they are the ones you don't vote for.

There's YOUR answer.

 

[Avatar4321]

So the corporations are supposed to solve our problems if we just turn them loose?
Dereg and no taxes?

Aren't corporate worshippers just so cute?

Dont make it so difficult to start businesses and entrepenuers will solve alot of problems.

I don't know why you guys seem to think corporations are so evil or the only types of businesses. They provide a very important service for us. They arent good or bad. They are just groups of people working together on a business venture.

I don't see how trying to control people through force really fixes our problems

 

[liebuster]

[

Only in your deluded little mind.......all you're doing is supporting a policy that is detrimental to the American job market all for partisan hackery. You're not clever, just stubborn.

What you are wanting is something that is only treating the symptom. I ran into someone today trying to fix piece of equipment by treating the symptom instead of the problem. He ended up putting $300 worth of parts for a problem that required switching two wires.

YOu don't fix something by saying, "if you don't do what I say, I'm going to tax you!"

The reason companies outsource is because the employees in the U.S. cost to much. Why is that? Its not because your not threating them enough. Its because your threating them to much. The government is constantly creating legislation that requires these buisnesses to comply and that costs money.

I'll give you an example:

In order for a hospital to accept medicare patients it has to conform to certain guidlines. It must take a smaller payment for services. It must maintain their building a certain way. It must get inspected and if there are any problems they get fined and have to fix the problem. (Look up The Joint Commission)

All these things cost money to do and someone has to pay it and its not going to be the hospital.....Its the consumer. If I remember right I believe some health care companies aren't even taking any new medicare patients because they don't make any money. Next thing you know congress is going to pass some legislation that forces them to accept medicare patients.

Now imagine if some legislation made you provide certain things for your employees even if your employees didnt ask for them or want them. That is going to make those employees cost more simply because the government said so. Whats logically going to happen is your going to find a cheaper employee and sometimes that employee is in India....

This is why buisnesses outsource. What the republicans voted down was only treating the symptom of bad legislation and policies not the cause of outsourcing.


Do you get it now?

 

[Oddball]

You'd also wouldnt think someone complaining about people dodging questions when he doesn't like the answer wouldnt be dodging questions himself.

It's difficult to see things clearly when you are red with rage though.

Dimitri!...Keep your feet on the floor when you're talking!

 

[Avatar4321]

[

Only in your deluded little mind.......all you're doing is supporting a policy that is detrimental to the American job market all for partisan hackery. You're not clever, just stubborn.

What you are wanting is something that is only treating the symptom. I ran into someone today trying to fix piece of equipment by treating the symptom instead of the problem. He ended up putting $300 worth of parts for a problem that required switching two wires.

YOu don't fix something by saying, "if you don't do what I say, I'm going to tax you!"

The reason companies outsource is because the employees in the U.S. cost to much. Why is that? Its not because your not threating them enough. Its because your threating them to much. The government is constantly creating legislation that requires these buisnesses to comply and that costs money.

I'll give you an example:

In order for a hospital to accept medicare patients it has to conform to certain guidlines. It must take a smaller payment for services. It must maintain their building a certain way. It must get inspected and if there are any problems they get fined and have to fix the problem. (Look up The Joint Commission)

All these things cost money to do and someone has to pay it and its not going to be the hospital.....Its the consumer. If I remember right I believe some health care companies aren't even taking any new medicare patients because they don't make any money. Next thing you know congress is going to pass some legislation that forces them to accept medicare patients.

Now imagine if some legislation made you provide certain things for your employees even if your employees didnt ask for them or want them. That is going to make those employees cost more simply because the government said so. Whats logically going to happen is your going to find a cheaper employee and sometimes that employee is in India....

This is why buisnesses outsource. What the republicans voted down was only treating the symptom of bad legislation and policies not the cause of outsourcing.


Do you get it now?

Not sure why it's so difficult to understand.

 

[taichiliberal]

Will someone please explain to me why the hell should I vote for a political party that DEFENDS companies and corporations outsourcing jobs to foreign countries only to sell the products to me at outrageous prices....AND get a tax break to do so?

**************************************

When your people are too damn stupid to finish school; too trifling to even show up for work; too damn irresponsible to even support your own children.... then out-sourcing becomes a necessity. A business executive has a duty to protect his stockholders... not the damn freeloading government teat-suckers.

And.... where do you get the "outrageous prices" remark from?


~Mark

So according to you anyone who is not a shareholder has no say in how an American business operates in America?

Do you think the life you enjoy now would exist if American history took that attitude, genius? Get off your ass, go down to the library and read up on Labor in America, FDR, Amendments regarding business.

Outsourcing is ONLY necessary for greedy folk to make more money without being responsible to their workers or the customers. Cheap labor is their answer, workers be damned. And if the American buyer has to pay high prices for the end product of a quality good, tfb.

You disgust me Mark.....as long as you got yours, fuck everyone else. Tell you what bunky, stay of federal roads, test your own water, food, etc. Don't call the cops, don't expect the military to do squat for you. Just rely on the deregulated corporation to take care of you...and don't you DARE complain about the fees they charge you.

 

[Urkie]

It's not about "losing money", it's about maximum profit regardless of who it hurts. That's GREED, my friend....that's how it was long BEFORE America came into existence and tried to ensure AGAINST corporate feudal systems.

But don't you understand that if they could make more money here then they wouldn't outsource? Outsourcing relects a bad domestic economic environment.

Could it be because of corporate lobbyist...hmmmmm?

Who do you think is enabling the lobbyists to get their way? Could it be the government...

 

[liebuster]

[

The flaw in your analogy is that companies were "forced" to outsource....that is a fallacy because these companies were already profitable....they just wanted MORE profit than the next competitor (domestic). Cheap, near-slave labor is the quickest way to achieve that profit, and outsourcing is one answer. But as our local unemployment rate rises, outsourcing is more apparent for it's abhorent greed and disregard for the American public.

We've already had a sample of your deregulation and trickle-down....the results were Enron, S&L, Wall St. and investment bank debacles that has put us in the current dilema.

YOU shouldn't support individuals that vote to protect greedy individuals that screw the country.....and since the GOP votes lock step, they are the ones you don't vote for.

There's YOUR answer.

Why should a company loose profit for the benifit of someone else?

Are you suggesting that Congress should impose profit limitations?

The reason people work is for profit.
The reason people make things better is for profit.
The reason you are typing into a computer is because someone wanted to make a profit.

And don't give me that deregulating mantra BS.

Enron broke laws. No amount of regulation would have stoped that.

AND THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CRISIS IS A RESULT OF GOVERNMENT THREATENING THE BANKS TO LOAN TO UNDERQUALIFIED PEOPLE!!!!!!YOUR GOLDEN BOY OBAMA EVEN SUED A BANK TO MAKE THEM LOAN TO UNDERQUALIFIED PEOPLE.

Now I'm not saying banks are guilt free here but things were working just fine before the government decided that all people should have a house.

Please stop watching Olbermann.

 

[liebuster]

[

Only in your deluded little mind.......all you're doing is supporting a policy that is detrimental to the American job market all for partisan hackery. You're not clever, just stubborn.

What you are wanting is something that is only treating the symptom. I ran into someone today trying to fix piece of equipment by treating the symptom instead of the problem. He ended up putting $300 worth of parts for a problem that required switching two wires.

YOu don't fix something by saying, "if you don't do what I say, I'm going to tax you!"

The reason companies outsource is because the employees in the U.S. cost to much. Why is that? Its not because your not threating them enough. Its because your threating them to much. The government is constantly creating legislation that requires these buisnesses to comply and that costs money.

I'll give you an example:

In order for a hospital to accept medicare patients it has to conform to certain guidlines. It must take a smaller payment for services. It must maintain their building a certain way. It must get inspected and if there are any problems they get fined and have to fix the problem. (Look up The Joint Commission)

All these things cost money to do and someone has to pay it and its not going to be the hospital.....Its the consumer. If I remember right I believe some health care companies aren't even taking any new medicare patients because they don't make any money. Next thing you know congress is going to pass some legislation that forces them to accept medicare patients.

Now imagine if some legislation made you provide certain things for your employees even if your employees didnt ask for them or want them. That is going to make those employees cost more simply because the government said so. Whats logically going to happen is your going to find a cheaper employee and sometimes that employee is in India....

This is why buisnesses outsource. What the republicans voted down was only treating the symptom of bad legislation and policies not the cause of outsourcing.


Do you get it now?

Not sure why it's so difficult to understand.

Because taichiliberal is enraged with class warfare. In his mind rich people are the oppressor and the middle and poor classes are the victims. He thinks that people are not in charge of their own destiny and are constantly victimized by the upper class

He also believes that government is the "Great Equalizer" and they are the only ones that can restore justice to the lower classes.

He probably has never looked back to the history of mankind and seen who is the oppressor and who is not.

 

[uscitizen]

So the corporations are supposed to solve our problems if we just turn them loose?
Dereg and no taxes?

Aren't corporate worshippers just so cute?

Dont make it so difficult to start businesses and entrepenuers will solve alot of problems.

I don't know why you guys seem to think corporations are so evil or the only types of businesses. They provide a very important service for us. They arent good or bad. They are just groups of people working together on a business venture.

I don't see how trying to control people through force really fixes our problems

Yeah I was against invading Iraq.

 

[Sallow]

Will someone please explain to me why the hell should I vote for a political party that DEFENDS companies and corporations outsourcing jobs to foreign countries only to sell the products to me at outrageous prices....AND get a tax break to do so?

It's the big red white and blue flag they stand in front of while holding a cross and praising the troops that does it.

 

[Avatar4321]

So according to you anyone who is not a shareholder has no say in how an American business operates in America?

If i don't own the company why should I be telling them what to do? it's not my property. The only say I should have in it is whether i want to buy their products or services or not. It's called the power of money. If they want it, they need to provide me with something I want or need.

Do you think the life you enjoy now would exist if American history took that attitude, genius? Get off your ass, go down to the library and read up on Labor in America, FDR, Amendments regarding business.

No, it would be much much better.

There is a reason the Depression of 1920 lasted a few months and the Depression of 1929 lasted 12 years and was called the Great Depression.

It's because in one Depression, the leaders cut taxes and cut spending and let the people govern themselves.

The other, government tried to micromanage, tax, spend, and overregulate businesses.

This is exactly why we won't be out of these tough economic times for a while. The policies of big government strangle economic growth. Obama is following the pattern of FDR so shockingly the economy is not getting better.

In fact, Obama may be doing worse with the current inflation policy driving up the cost of everything. It's not a coincidence that prices are going up.

Outsourcing is ONLY necessary for greedy folk to make more money without being responsible to their workers or the customers. Cheap labor is their answer, workers be damned. And if the American buyer has to pay high prices for the end product of a quality good, tfb.

Would you prefer expensive labor which creates expensive prices?

I think when they have a choice between going out of business or outsourcing, while keeping a few jobs around in the nation, the choice is obvious.

Not to mention American products aren't nearly as good as they were decades ago. It's funny but when you have to spend more money on costs of production, you can't make the products as well as they used to be.

What is really funny about all this is you liberals complain about hwo we should see ourselves as citizens of the world and how we shouldnt be so "self centered" etc. But you seem to have this belief that it's a horrible situation if people in foreign countries have jobs.

If someone in another country can do my job more effectively and cheaper, more power to them. I'll get another job. Or create one.

What is wrong with growing through the trials we have? Why should we not go through them when everyone else does? Why shouldn't we lose our job if it's not profitable?

People are much more resiliant then you give them credit for. They are far more creative too. I think you'd be surprised what would happen if you just let them be. We tried it in 1920 and it lead to the roaring twenties and the middle class.

You disgust me Mark.....as long as you got yours, fuck everyone else. Tell you what bunky, stay of federal roads, test your own water, food, etc. Don't call the cops, don't expect the military to do squat for you. Just rely on the deregulated corporation to take care of you...and don't you DARE complain about the fees they charge you.

The funny thing about corporations is, you don't have to do business with them.

Unfortunately with the government, they don't give us a choice whether we deal with them.

 

[Avatar4321]

So the corporations are supposed to solve our problems if we just turn them loose?
Dereg and no taxes?

Aren't corporate worshippers just so cute?

Dont make it so difficult to start businesses and entrepenuers will solve alot of problems.

I don't know why you guys seem to think corporations are so evil or the only types of businesses. They provide a very important service for us. They arent good or bad. They are just groups of people working together on a business venture.

I don't see how trying to control people through force really fixes our problems

Yeah I was against invading Iraq.

I know. You don't like it when people dont need a dictators permission to do anything.

 

[uscitizen]

So according to you anyone who is not a shareholder has no say in how an American business operates in America?

If i don't own the company why should I be telling them what to do? it's not my property. The only say I should have in it is whether i want to buy their products or services or not. It's called the power of money. If they want it, they need to provide me with something I want or need.

Do you think the life you enjoy now would exist if American history took that attitude, genius? Get off your ass, go down to the library and read up on Labor in America, FDR, Amendments regarding business.

No, it would be much much better.

There is a reason the Depression of 1920 lasted a few months and the Depression of 1929 lasted 12 years and was called the Great Depression.

It's because in one Depression, the leaders cut taxes and cut spending and let the people govern themselves.

The other, government tried to micromanage, tax, spend, and overregulate businesses.

This is exactly why we won't be out of these tough economic times for a while. The policies of big government strangle economic growth. Obama is following the pattern of FDR so shockingly the economy is not getting better.

In fact, Obama may be doing worse with the current inflation policy driving up the cost of everything. It's not a coincidence that prices are going up.

Outsourcing is ONLY necessary for greedy folk to make more money without being responsible to their workers or the customers. Cheap labor is their answer, workers be damned. And if the American buyer has to pay high prices for the end product of a quality good, tfb.

Would you prefer expensive labor which creates expensive prices?

I think when they have a choice between going out of business or outsourcing, while keeping a few jobs around in the nation, the choice is obvious.

Not to mention American products aren't nearly as good as they were decades ago. It's funny but when you have to spend more money on costs of production, you can't make the products as well as they used to be.

What is really funny about all this is you liberals complain about hwo we should see ourselves as citizens of the world and how we shouldnt be so "self centered" etc. But you seem to have this belief that it's a horrible situation if people in foreign countries have jobs.

If someone in another country can do my job more effectively and cheaper, more power to them. I'll get another job. Or create one.

What is wrong with growing through the trials we have? Why should we not go through them when everyone else does? Why shouldn't we lose our job if it's not profitable?

People are much more resiliant then you give them credit for. They are far more creative too. I think you'd be surprised what would happen if you just let them be. We tried it in 1920 and it lead to the roaring twenties and the middle class.

You disgust me Mark.....as long as you got yours, fuck everyone else. Tell you what bunky, stay of federal roads, test your own water, food, etc. Don't call the cops, don't expect the military to do squat for you. Just rely on the deregulated corporation to take care of you...and don't you DARE complain about the fees they charge you.

The funny thing about corporations is, you don't have to do business with them.

Unfortunately with the government, they don't give us a choice whether we deal with them.

Hmm, Electricity? Gas? Water in many locations, food, medical care? Medicine?

Glad to know you are against privatization.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why should a company loose profit for the benifit of someone else?

Are you suggesting that Congress should impose profit limitations?

The reason people work is for profit.
The reason people make things better is for profit.
The reason you are typing into a computer is because someone wanted to make a profit.

And don't give me that deregulating mantra BS.

Enron broke laws. No amount of regulation would have stoped that.

AND THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CRISIS IS A RESULT OF GOVERNMENT THREATENING THE BANKS TO LOAN TO UNDERQUALIFIED PEOPLE!!!!!!YOUR GOLDEN BOY OBAMA EVEN SUED A BANK TO MAKE THEM LOAN TO UNDERQUALIFIED PEOPLE.

Now I'm not saying banks are guilt free here but things were working just fine before the government decided that all people should have a house.

Please stop watching Olbermann.

It's funny, the New Testament has been around for 2000 years and people still don't understand the simple fact that law doesn't save us.

It doesn't matter what laws you pass: corrupt people don't follow them. Passing a law doesn't make dishonest people honest. The problem is TCL want's to pass laws to address symptoms of the problems after the fact.

The problem isnt businesses. The problem is corrupt people doing business. You don't eliminate corrupt people by passing laws because they break them. Law has no power unless you give it power with your consent. Dishonest people don't consent to it. So laws end up restricting the honest people trying to do business and not doing a thing about the dishonest ones until it's long too late.

You have to treat the problem (The dishonest people), not the symptom (Economic problems). And there isn't a darn thing the government can do to treat that problem. Punishing after the effect doesn't stop the evil. just punishes it afterwards

There is only one solution to end corruption: Every individual needs to choose to be honest. There is no other solution.

The natural law of economics states that the market will correct itself if corruption is around. That correction is painful, but it's the natural law of things. We can delay the correction, but it makes it a heck of alot more painful then if we just recognize our mistakes and repent.

 

[Avatar4321]

So according to you anyone who is not a shareholder has no say in how an American business operates in America?

If i don't own the company why should I be telling them what to do? it's not my property. The only say I should have in it is whether i want to buy their products or services or not. It's called the power of money. If they want it, they need to provide me with something I want or need.



No, it would be much much better.

There is a reason the Depression of 1920 lasted a few months and the Depression of 1929 lasted 12 years and was called the Great Depression.

It's because in one Depression, the leaders cut taxes and cut spending and let the people govern themselves.

The other, government tried to micromanage, tax, spend, and overregulate businesses.

This is exactly why we won't be out of these tough economic times for a while. The policies of big government strangle economic growth. Obama is following the pattern of FDR so shockingly the economy is not getting better.

In fact, Obama may be doing worse with the current inflation policy driving up the cost of everything. It's not a coincidence that prices are going up.



Would you prefer expensive labor which creates expensive prices?

I think when they have a choice between going out of business or outsourcing, while keeping a few jobs around in the nation, the choice is obvious.

Not to mention American products aren't nearly as good as they were decades ago. It's funny but when you have to spend more money on costs of production, you can't make the products as well as they used to be.

What is really funny about all this is you liberals complain about hwo we should see ourselves as citizens of the world and how we shouldnt be so "self centered" etc. But you seem to have this belief that it's a horrible situation if people in foreign countries have jobs.

If someone in another country can do my job more effectively and cheaper, more power to them. I'll get another job. Or create one.

What is wrong with growing through the trials we have? Why should we not go through them when everyone else does? Why shouldn't we lose our job if it's not profitable?

People are much more resiliant then you give them credit for. They are far more creative too. I think you'd be surprised what would happen if you just let them be. We tried it in 1920 and it lead to the roaring twenties and the middle class.

You disgust me Mark.....as long as you got yours, fuck everyone else. Tell you what bunky, stay of federal roads, test your own water, food, etc. Don't call the cops, don't expect the military to do squat for you. Just rely on the deregulated corporation to take care of you...and don't you DARE complain about the fees they charge you.

The funny thing about corporations is, you don't have to do business with them.

Unfortunately with the government, they don't give us a choice whether we deal with them.

Hmm, Electricity? Gas? Water in many locations, food, medical care? Medicine?

Glad to know you are against privatization.

I am not sure what to say to this simply because you have drawn the exact opposite conclusion from what I clearly said.

 

[Sallow]

You'd also wouldnt think someone complaining about people dodging questions when he doesn't like the answer wouldnt be dodging questions himself.

It's difficult to see things clearly when you are red with rage though.

Dimitri!...Keep your feet on the floor when you're talking!

You do have some impeccable taste in cinema..I grant you that.

 

[The Rabbi]

What isn't? Gasoline, Food, clothing, etc.

Now, are you going to answer the question, or just waste time and space stalling and bullshitting?

Gasoline, food and clothing are all cheaper now both in inflation adjusted terms and in terms of percentage of family income than ever before in history.

You really don't know very much, do you?

I know that you still haven't answered the question. And I know that only a complete asshole would say that things are cheaper now than say 30 years ago....unless you're only 20 years old and don't know a damned thing beyond your birthday. Unless you're from another country or planet, you'd know that the minimum wage has been lagging behind the COLA for DECADES until Slick Willy (Bill Clinton) got into office. When I was in high school, the bus ride to my school...one town over....was 25 cents. From 1972 to present, it's increased by $2.00. That means, every time you had an increase, it was by 100%. Now factor in the gas pump prices, utility rates during the various "energy" and "oil" crisis over the years, lay offs, closing of steel and auto plants, etc., and you might get a clue as to how absurd your assertion is.

Quit stalling and get your ass in gear, bunky.

I see you're decompensating here. You've been told the premise of your quesiton is asinine. Several times. From several different posters.
You've been shown why. Your response is always some bizarre class warfare rant about corporations screwing people. You cannot grasp a simple fact, like gasoline, clothes and food are all cheaper today than in years past.
I'd say you are heading towards Iggy.

 

[WillowTree]

I'm betting tachi dumb ass voted for obie wan, and obie wan bailed out GM who promptly announced it would build an 800 million dollar plant in Mexico. who ya gonna vote for this time tachi dumb azz?

I sincerely hope you're some silly high school kid. If not, you're pretty sad.

Wake up, you fool....I DIDN'T DO THIS TO YOU....YOU'RE SAINTED GOP DID. If you can't answer the question honestly or intelligently, then stop wasting time and space with your rants.

and all the while yer bitchin cause nobody answers the question you blindly slog forth with your talking points and don't answer the question. what about GM and the 800 million dollar plant in Mexico. Why should you vote for democrats,, they did that to you, not the gop.

 

[WillowTree]

Gasoline, food and clothing are all cheaper now both in inflation adjusted terms and in terms of percentage of family income than ever before in history.

You really don't know very much, do you?

I know that you still haven't answered the question. And I know that only a complete asshole would say that things are cheaper now than say 30 years ago....unless you're only 20 years old and don't know a damned thing beyond your birthday. Unless you're from another country or planet, you'd know that the minimum wage has been lagging behind the COLA for DECADES until Slick Willy (Bill Clinton) got into office. When I was in high school, the bus ride to my school...one town over....was 25 cents. From 1972 to present, it's increased by $2.00. That means, every time you had an increase, it was by 100%. Now factor in the gas pump prices, utility rates during the various "energy" and "oil" crisis over the years, lay offs, closing of steel and auto plants, etc., and you might get a clue as to how absurd your assertion is.

Quit stalling and get your ass in gear, bunky.

I see you're decompensating here. You've been told the premise of your quesiton is asinine. Several times. From several different posters.
You've been shown why. Your response is always some bizarre class warfare rant about corporations screwing people. You cannot grasp a simple fact, like gasoline, clothes and food are all cheaper today than in years past.
I'd say you are heading towards Iggy.

him is having a librul meltdown and needs a reality check. yup