7 States Sue over Contraception Mandate. It's not just the Catholics, OBUMMER!

[Quantum Windbag]

what if christians sceintists want the same specail treatment?

1. It is not special treatment.
2. Christians Scientists don't use doctors, I doubt they buy insurance.
3. If you work for a Christian Science business they probably don't provide insurance at all.

 

[del]

Simple enough solution.

Universal Health Care. Get employers out of the picture altogether.

The notion I could be denied medical treatment because my employer is a religious fanatic is kind of frightening.

You can't, but thanks for proving how stupid you are.

again

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Simple enough solution.

Universal Health Care. Get employers out of the picture altogether.

The notion I could be denied medical treatment because my employer is a religious fanatic is kind of frightening.

That is NOT a solution. That's just Obama taking it to the next step which is his goal anyway.

You don't think this move by Obama is part of his goal of forcing governnment healthcare on us?

Very possibly. employer-based health insurance is already an albatross on the neck of American business. Europe and Japan have universal health care, and are a lot more competitive.

I do think that Obama is trying to preserve the current system for as long as possible because culturally, we like to think of ourselves as "rugged individualists". But even the Insurance Industry has admitted that the system as it is can't go on.

Obama thinks American businesses are the most competitive businesses in the world, is he wrong?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Very possibly. employer-based health insurance is already an albatross on the neck of American business. Europe and Japan have universal health care, and are a lot more competitive.

I do think that Obama is trying to preserve the current system for as long as possible because culturally, we like to think of ourselves as "rugged individualists". But even the Insurance Industry has admitted that the system as it is can't go on.

Well, what you think is unimportant.

It's obvious Obama is going to add mandate after unfunded mandate on insurance until it becomes impossible for employers to keep proving it.

Then of course voters will clamor for something and there Obama will be ready to roll out his one payer system he has always wanted.

That's the real plan, and it is all too obvious.

It's not what I think, it's what the reality is. We have the worst system in the world, hands down, but peopel are making money off of it.

Sorry, making employers provide common sense coverage is not an undue mandate. The Church isn't pleading poverty on this one. Providing birth control will be cheaper than paying for pregnancies. Their objection is a religious one.

Oh, if only the Catholic Church was so concerned when their priests were molesting children.

We have the worst health care system in the world, which is why no one from Mexico, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Great Britain, France, Russia, China, or Japan ever come here to get medical care.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not what I think, it's what the reality is. We have the worst system in the world, hands down, but peopel are making money off of it.

Sorry, making employers provide common sense coverage is not an undue mandate. The Church isn't pleading poverty on this one. Providing birth control will be cheaper than paying for pregnancies. Their objection is a religious one.
Oh, if only the Catholic Church was so concerned when their priests were molesting children.

Exactly!!

And in this country we are guaranteed the right to religious freedom. The Government is supposed to protect those guaranteed rights.


Nice strawman attempt.

The right to religious freedom does not extend to violating business and labor laws. It never has.

The Supreme Court disagrees, but thanks for playing.

 

[JoeB131]

Simple enough solution.

Universal Health Care. Get employers out of the picture altogether.

The notion I could be denied medical treatment because my employer is a religious fanatic is kind of frightening.

You can't, but thanks for proving how stupid you are.

Well, you're right, I can't. Because we have laws.

Which you knuckleheads would overturn, given the chance.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The right to religious freedom does not extend to violating business and labor laws. It never has.

Um, as the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, it sure as hell does.

Can you name the laws that Church owned BUSINESSES are currently allowed to violate without consequence or penalty?

The American with Disabilities Act.

 

[Valerie]

i am as religious as they come, was reared Catholic, and i honestly do NOT see this as a freedom of religion issue. If this was the Catholic Church and the employees of their diocese, then i would be against it and fight tooth and nail against it....

But IT IS NOT the Church that is being forced to pay for or cover women's contraceptives for those with insurance....it is the catholic charities which is a secular run charity, where 50% of its money is funded by you and me via our taxes, that employs a secular work staff.

I see this move by the catholic charities strictly them getting involved with politics....

a church should NOT be able to force their religious views on to their secular staff employees.....THAT is what breaks the first amendment imho.....especially if the gvt allows them to force their religious views on to the employees in a hospital or university ( that gets 50% of their money from the government) .....

many republicans were saying the church should not have to pay for insurance with this coverage, and almost immediately obama got the insurance companies not to charge them for it....so it ain't money like many repubs keep regurgitating....

it isn't a church it is a non profit business, who should be held to the same rules as other non profit businesses...

now i have never been crazy about the overall mandate in the first place and maybe this is why the right wing is making a mountain out of a mole hill on this....but i respectfully believe you are WRONG to oppose this on the grounds of supposedly ''religious freedom''.....oppose the mandate, but this? it makes no sense what so ever!

I agree...And what is up with these exemptions exactly...........???

On March 22, 2010 President Obama signed into law legislation that requires most Americans to purchase government regulated health insurance by the year 2014.

... The law gives Christians who participate in Health Care Sharing Ministries a special exemption from the mandate to purchase insurance.




More importantly, we thank God for His protection and favor on our Ministry and the continued opportunity to serve one another.

Health Care Sharing Ministries are the only “organized healthcare concept” to receive a special exemption from the taxes, penalties and regulations that are a part of this law, as these apply to insurance companies.

Medi-Share - Healthcare Reform exemption



As a Medi-Share member you are exempt from the “individual mandate” that will require all other Americans to purchase insurance by 2014 or face financial penalties.


(page 107 & 128 of the final law).
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3590enr.txt.pdf

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Simple enough solution.

Universal Health Care. Get employers out of the picture altogether.

The notion I could be denied medical treatment because my employer is a religious fanatic is kind of frightening.

You can't, but thanks for proving how stupid you are.

Well, you're right, I can't. Because we have laws.

Which you knuckleheads would overturn, given the chance.

No, you can't because you can still pay the doctor for medical care even if you do not have an insurance from your employer. Your problem isn't getting health care, it is that you want someone else to pay for it.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Show the rw's something bright and shiny and they forget all about

ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID!!

 

[Richard-H]

The state has the responsibilty of setting employment laws and standards.

This is not an issue of individual religious freedom - employees have the choice whether to take contraceptives or not. No one is being forced to take contraceptives.

If these religious institutions were actually good at what they did none of their employees would take contraceptives.

Instead the real issue is that many religious women disagree with their church's teaching on this subject and take contraceptives whether or not it is provided for in any insurance plan.

These religious institutions DESPARATELY DO NOT WANT statistical records showing the number of there 'religious' employees that take contraceptives. It will prove that they are a total fraud and/or failure.

Meanwhile, the conservatives are desparately in need of any political issue that they can possibly create. And this, quite pitifully, is about the best they can do.

Once again the phrase "Give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's" has no meaning to these 'religious' hypocrites.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It's not just the Catholics, OBUMMER!

No one ever said it was.

Hence: social conservatives.

This is yet another tedious, inane battle of the Culture War, having to do with politics, not religion. Republicans use these wedge issues in an attempt to divide Americans and create factions likely to go to war with each other. Republicans hope that these conflicts will draw attention away from substantive issues they have no idea how to address.

Republicans hope to realize some perceived political advantage in an America at war with itself.

 

[Care4all]

You can't, but thanks for proving how stupid you are.

Well, you're right, I can't. Because we have laws.

Which you knuckleheads would overturn, given the chance.

No, you can't because you can still pay the doctor for medical care even if you do not have an insurance from your employer. Your problem isn't getting health care, it is that you want someone else to pay for it.

isn't someone else paying for the majority of your health insurance, like your employer? Or is the employer paying your health insurance PART of your total compensation, like it was for me when I worked for a corporation, they included what they paid for my health insurance as part of my total compensation and at the end of the year gave me broken down, what they paid me....their share of my health insurance, their share of my social security, their share for my salary and for my life insurance and for my bonuses and for my company stock received and for my Dental etc etc etc...all got labeled and totaled as my TOTAL Compensation Package....each year they added that all up and sent me an analysis....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The state has the responsibilty of setting employment laws and standards.

Do they?

This is not an issue of individual religious freedom - employees have the choice whether to take contraceptives or not. No one is being forced to take contraceptives.

They are, however, being forced to pay for them.

If these religious institutions were actually good at what they did none of their employees would take contraceptives.

What makes you think any of their employees do?

Instead the real issue is that many religious women disagree with their church's teaching on this subject and take contraceptives whether or not it is provided for in any insurance plan.

That is not the issue.

These religious institutions DESPARATELY DO NOT WANT statistical records showing the number of there 'religious' employees that take contraceptives. It will prove that they are a total fraud and/or failure.

I didn't know that priests and nuns took contraceptives. What, exactly, are the statistics on that?

Meanwhile, the conservatives are desparately in need of any political issue that they can possibly create. And this, quite pitifully, is about the best they can do.

They didn't create this issue, the liberal Catholic bishops who support Obamacare did.

Once again the phrase "Give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's" has no meaning to these 'religious' hypocrites.

If people's health belongs to the government does that mean the government can kill people who do not eat healthy?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, you're right, I can't. Because we have laws.

Which you knuckleheads would overturn, given the chance.

No, you can't because you can still pay the doctor for medical care even if you do not have an insurance from your employer. Your problem isn't getting health care, it is that you want someone else to pay for it.

isn't someone else paying for the majority of your health insurance, like your employer? Or is the employer paying your health insurance PART of your total compensation, like it was for me when I worked for a corporation, they included what they paid for my health insurance as part of my total compensation and at the end of the year gave me broken down, what they paid me....their share of my health insurance, their share of my social security, their share for my salary and for my life insurance and for my bonuses and for my company stock received and for my Dental etc etc etc...all got labeled and totaled as my TOTAL Compensation Package....each year they added that all up and sent me an analysis....

Is it my fault a system was set up before I was born that dictates that other people pay for your health care?

 

[NYcarbineer]

um, as the constitution is the supreme law of the land, it sure as hell does.

can you name the laws that church owned businesses are currently allowed to violate without consequence or penalty?

EEOC and the Constitution, especially the latter because it is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND.

What EEOC laws can Catholic hospitals violate?

 

[NYcarbineer]

So let me get the cpomplain some of you have striaght.

You believe that one's religion gives one the right to supercede national policy?

Okay.. my religion informs me that I can descriminate in hiring anybody who is a believer of any religion whatever..

Is that okay with you guys?

Because remember now, it's like MY PRECIOUS RELIGON so the entire society else has to bow down to whatever harebrained ideas I have, right?

Nitwits.

Are you a religion?

I doubt it.

Talk about nitwits:

C. Exceptions
1. Religious Organizations

Under Title VII, religious organizations are permitted to give employment preference to members of their own religion.[42] The exception applies only to those institutions whose “purpose and character are primarily religious.”[43] That determination is to be based on “[a]ll significant religious and secular characteristics.”[44] Although no one factor is dispositive, significant factors to consider that would indicate whether an entity is religious include:

Do its articles of incorporation state a religious purpose?
Are its day-to-day operations religious (e.g., are the services the entity performs, the product it produces, or the educational curriculum it provides directed toward propagation of the religion)?
Is it not-for-profit?
Is it affiliated with or supported by a church or other religious organization? [45]

This exception is not limited to religious activities of the organization.[46] However, it only allows religious organizations to prefer to employ individuals who share their religion.[47] The exception does not allow religious organizations otherwise to discriminate in employment on protected bases other than religion, such as race, color, national origin, sex, age, or disability.[48] Thus, a religious organization is not permitted to engage in racially discriminatory hiring by asserting that a tenet of its religious beliefs is not associating with people of other races. Similarly, a religious organization is not permitted to deny fringe benefits to married women but not to married men by asserting a religiously based view that only men can be the head of a household.

Compliance Manual Section 12 - Religious Discrimination


This exception in the EEOC laws is there specifically for the same reason - to protect the Supreme Constitutional rights of religious organizations.

The same applies here. Obamacare and other business regs can never trump the Supreme Law of the Land.

Thank goodness.

That does not apply to businesses run by Catholics that are not primarily religious, i.e., a hospital, or a university.

 

[Care4all]

No, you can't because you can still pay the doctor for medical care even if you do not have an insurance from your employer. Your problem isn't getting health care, it is that you want someone else to pay for it.

isn't someone else paying for the majority of your health insurance, like your employer? Or is the employer paying your health insurance PART of your total compensation, like it was for me when I worked for a corporation, they included what they paid for my health insurance as part of my total compensation and at the end of the year gave me broken down, what they paid me....their share of my health insurance, their share of my social security, their share for my salary and for my life insurance and for my bonuses and for my company stock received and for my Dental etc etc etc...all got labeled and totaled as my TOTAL Compensation Package....each year they added that all up and sent me an analysis....

Is it my fault a system was set up before I was born that dictates that other people pay for your health care?

did i say it was your fault???

I never considered it my employer paying for it...i considered it as part of my pay, my compensation for working for them, for accomplishing and beating my work goals....so even though it may appear that your employer is paying it, they are NOT, you are with what you 'produce' for them while working for them....

 

[NYcarbineer]

Um, as the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, it sure as hell does.

Can you name the laws that Church owned BUSINESSES are currently allowed to violate without consequence or penalty?

The American with Disabilities Act.

Catholic hospitals and universities can ignore the Americans with Disabilities act? Seriously?

Can you link to that, please?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

isn't someone else paying for the majority of your health insurance, like your employer? Or is the employer paying your health insurance PART of your total compensation, like it was for me when I worked for a corporation, they included what they paid for my health insurance as part of my total compensation and at the end of the year gave me broken down, what they paid me....their share of my health insurance, their share of my social security, their share for my salary and for my life insurance and for my bonuses and for my company stock received and for my Dental etc etc etc...all got labeled and totaled as my TOTAL Compensation Package....each year they added that all up and sent me an analysis....

Is it my fault a system was set up before I was born that dictates that other people pay for your health care?

did i say it was your fault???

I never considered it my employer paying for it...i considered it as part of my pay, my compensation for working for them, for accomplishing and beating my work goals....so even though it may appear that your employer is paying it, they are NOT, you are with what you 'produce' for them while working for them....

Insurance is meant to defray the cost of unexpected expenses. JoeB wants people who will never use, or need, contraception to pay for it because...

Come to think of it, I don't think he actually has a reason he wants them to pay other than Obama said it was a good idea. I object to him wanting other people to pay for things simply because he wants other people to pay for things.