65 Girls At Ohio High School Pregnant

[Mariner]

I looked up the study on the web to clarify the meaning of the numbers. The pledgers were 6 * more likely to have oral sex than other teens who were NOT having intercourse, not than those who were. So it's not that they were just substituting oral sex for intercourse. It's more like they were so uneducated about the risks, based on their schools' "ignorance is the best policy" abstinence-type education, that they were having much more oral sex than teens who didn't formally abstain.

Like lots of other policies that have their origin in the Christian wing of the right wing, abstinence-style sex-ed seems ready for the trash heap of history. It's time we distribute condoms and real sex ed not just at home but worldwide, where epidemics of AIDS and other STDs, along with overpopulation, need to be addressed. It's time we stop funding faith-based social initiatives (Do you want a Muslim charity coming to help you when you're down andout?). It's time we accept that evolution is science and I.D. is baloney. It's time to get religion out of government, and back in our private lives, where it belongs. It's time we give up the idea of "dominion" over the ecosystem and recognize that every breath and step we take makes us part of that ecosystem. Some of us would like those breaths to have less soot and a more normal percentage of carbon dioxide in them.

Mariner.

 

[Said1]

Is this the study you are referring too? http://cira.med.yale.edu/events/brueckner.pdf

 

[musicman]

I looked up the study on the web to clarify the meaning of the numbers. The pledgers were 6 * more likely to have oral sex than other teens who were NOT having intercourse, not than those who were. So it's not that they were just substituting oral sex for intercourse. It's more like they were so uneducated about the risks, based on their schools' "ignorance is the best policy" abstinence-type education, that they were having much more oral sex than teens who didn't formally abstain.

The study is loaded and preposterous, as are your conclusions. Surprise, surprise. In the first place, they do not factor in the monogamous nature of pledgers' relationships; this would have been a crucial piece of information.

Second - and more important - in the context of sex education, an abstinence-based approach is about five minutes old. Only those with an ax to grind would declare failure so quickly and gleefully. Your side has had an undisturbed thirty years to pander its foolishness, and the disastrous results are everywhere one looks.

Like lots of other policies that have their origin in the Christian wing of the right wing, abstinence-style sex-ed seems ready for the trash heap of history. It's time we distribute condoms and real sex ed not just at home but worldwide, where epidemics of AIDS and other STDs, along with overpopulation, need to be addressed. It's time we stop funding faith-based social initiatives (Do you want a Muslim charity coming to help you when you're down andout?). It's time we accept that evolution is science and I.D. is baloney. It's time to get religion out of government, and back in our private lives, where it belongs. It's time we give up the idea of "dominion" over the ecosystem and recognize that every breath and step we take makes us part of that ecosystem. Some of us would like those breaths to have less soot and a more normal percentage of carbon dioxide in them.

Mariner.

Your personal politics are well-known to this board. Do you have anything OBJECTIVE to add to the discussion?

 

[Powerman]

Wow, Powerman - maybe we could just tie executions to test scores. I can feel society getting better already; reaping those "net benefits" you've been talking about!

Uneducated people are very important to our society. Not everyone should have a college degree. We need labor.

 

[Mariner]

everywhere one looks? Teen pregnancy rates have been falling nicely in areas with information-based rather than abstinence-based sex education.

You don't need 30 years to do the experiment. A single high school class will suffice. For example, the one with 65 pregnancies that started this thread.

My wife is a school nurse, and spent years at a city high school. Despite her Catholic upbringing, she concluded that real sex ed was by far in the students' best interest, and ended up with a bowl of condoms on her desk. How does withholding information help teens?

Mariner.

 

[musicman]

You don't need 30 years to do the experiment.

It's a good thing, because we don't HAVE thirty years! My point is that the liberal counterculture has had free rein in attacking America's institutions for at least that long - and it's not going to get fixed in the blink of an eye.

A single high school class will suffice.

That's a bit imperious of you, isn't it? By what authority do YOU get to frame the parameters of the experiment? Well, you don't - and it's a good thing , since your choice would be:

For example, the one with 65 pregnancies that started this thread.

What a surprise - you'd choose a school already laid to waste by the permissive culture and the entitlement mentality - and give it five minutes to straighten up and fly right!

This is what's known as LOADING THE EXPERIMENT, Mariner.

 

[Annie]

Uneducated people are very important to our society. Not everyone should have a college degree. We need labor.

You however are supposedly 'educated', though not wise. You sound very much the Wile (D) Coyote type:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27795

 

[musicman]

You however are supposedly 'educated', though not wise. You sound very much the Wile (D) Coyote type:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27795

This guy kills me, Kathianne. His assertions manage to be baseless and base at the same time!

 

[Annie]

This guy kills me, Kathianne. His assertions manage to be baseless and base at the same time!

Yep and he never steps back to look at what he's saying. :coffee3: Both extremes have the type, in both cases they are at a minimum, annoying.

Well MM, have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[musicman]

Yep and he never steps back to look at what he's saying. :coffee3: Both extremes have the type, in both cases they are at a minimum, annoying.

Well MM, have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

And the same to you, Kathianne. All the best to you and yours!

 

[Powerman]

Yep and he never steps back to look at what he's saying. :coffee3: Both extremes have the type, in both cases they are at a minimum, annoying.

Well MM, have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

You are so full of yourself. I always take a second look at what I'm talking about. I don't know where you get off thinking that you're somehow superior to me in any way but it's just silly. Maybe it's because you're older, or because you're an admin, or maybe it's because you have a higher post count. I really don't get it though. I'm not extreme at all. I'm a more politically balanced person than most on this board. I do feel strongly on certain issues but at least I form my own opinions and don't just do whatever Sean Hannity tells me to do.

 

[Mariner]

that the reason for the increased pregnancies in this school was not the change in its sex ed program from old-fashioned informational to abstinence-based. Instead it was the fault of the surrounding permissive culture.

But if abstinence-based sex ed isn't adequte to overcome permissive culture, then what's the point of it? Maybe its supporters need to heed the research and refashion their methods before trying out an ineffective program on innocent teens--and their often unwanted children.

Mariner.

 

[musicman]

that the reason for the increased pregnancies in this school was not the change in its sex ed program from old-fashioned informational to abstinence-based. Instead it was the fault of the surrounding permissive culture.

Precisely.

But if abstinence-based sex ed isn't adequte to overcome permissive culture, then what's the point of it?

The culture war will be waged on many fronts. Sex ed represents one battle.

Maybe its supporters need to heed the research and refashion their methods before trying out an ineffective program on innocent teens--and their often unwanted children.

Mariner.

Focusing on this tree or that, you're failing to see the forest. Root causes, Mariner - root causes. These are what must be addressed. The entitlement mentality. The obliteration of any and all restraints on human behavior. Liberalism is a cancer; we conservatives mean to cut it out. We want our country back.

 

[musicman]

that the reason for the increased pregnancies in this school was not the change in its sex ed program from old-fashioned informational to abstinence-based.

Mariner.

Pretty clever turn of a phrase, Mariner - I almost missed it. "Old-fashioned informational" - I like that. Good, old-fashioned, traditional, tried-and-true, familiar, friendly, condom-distibuting "informational". It's as if chastity, decency, morality, and common sense represent some dangerous, newfangled end-run around time-honored, wise, and proven teaching methods. Nice try.

Only problem is, for "proof" of liberalism's benefits to our culture - of which "informational sex ed" is a prime example - one need only look at the smoking ruins of our society. Your friends have held sway for over thirty years, Mariner - and they damn near destroyed this nation. I other words, their mission was very nearly accomplished.

But it's over now. The war is on.

 

[007]

You however are supposedly 'educated', though not wise. You sound very much the Wile (D) Coyote type:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27795

It's a known fact Kath, intelligence, even with continued education, does NOT guarantee any amount of "common sense".

 

[Abbey Normal]

It's a known fact Kath, intelligence, even with continued education, does NOT guarantee any amount of "common sense".

That's for dang sure.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Hmmmm...Sounds like "abstinence only" ain't workin' now, don't it.

Although it was already pointed out that abstinence based is not the same as abstinence only, you still going on calling it abstinence only. hmmmm

wrong info in, wrong conclusions drawn.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

digging up an old thread.



Thirteen percent of the 490 girls at Timken High School in Canton, Ohio, are pregnant, contrasting with the national average of 8%, which has been falling over the past decade, the... AP/Yahoo! News reports. Teen pregnancy "is a widespread issue" in many urban areas, according to Jay Green, chair of the University of Arkansas' education reform department. Green and Greg Forster, both senior fellows at the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, released a report in January 2004 that found 20% of urban 12th graders and 14% of suburban 12th graders have been pregnant. .

well, if the school is at 13% and The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research found 20% and 14% of girls pregnant, then isnt the school lower in its rate?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

What increase are you guys talking about?

Pregnancy and birth rates among teenagers have varied considerably over time. Figure 1 depicts rates of birth among women aged fifteen through nineteen years from 1940 to 1999. Teen birth rates were at their highest from the late 1940s through the early 1960s, mirroring the elevated rates seen among all women of childbearing age during this time period, commonly referred to as the "baby boom." More recently, birth rates showed a relatively modest increase in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and declined steadily thereafter. Data for 1999 indicated that the teenage birth rate in that year fell to a record low of 49.6 births per 1,000.

Checkout the graph ...
http://childhood.families.com/teenage-pregnancy-402-405-chdv
Another site that shows the same sorta stuff beginning in the 50s..
http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content2/teen.pregnancy.html

Young girls (Teens) have always gotton preg..Nothing new..But as both sites show the rate is declining.

wouldnt the increase in abortions be influencial in greatly reducing BIRTH rates after the sixties?

 

[MissileMan]

well, if the school is at 13% and The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research found 20% and 14% of girls pregnant, then isnt the school lower in its rate?

Read it again. The 20% and 14% referred to 12th graders only.