62 Miles (City) Per Tank . . . of Compressed Air

[asterism]

Are you trying to say it will cost $10 to recharge the tank?
If you are, would you like to put some money on it?

To air charge a tank large enough to propel a car weighing 500 pounds carrying 2 passengers weighing, GVWt. 750 lbs, 62 miles powered entirely by compressed air would cost more than $10 to fill at home (and significantly more than $10 at a commercial convenience station).

My rationale is based on the First law of thermodynamics/conservation of energy: "The law of conservation of energy is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created or destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy."

You don't have to explain the FLoT to me, I'm a physicist.
if you really believe it will cost $10 to fill the compressed air tank, warranty it with some money. I'll match any amount you can afford to lose without welshing. We can settle up anonymously with Paypal.

How can one settle anonymously with Paypal?

 

[Immanuel]

Okay, I'm hittin' the hay shortly, but why is everyone knocking this technology?

Just look back at the cars of the early 20th century and compare them to today's cars. If such technology is possible, I say get to work on it and fast... before the oil companies can find the pen and paper to buy out who ever is working on it!

Immie

 

[Synthaholic]

The 1000 psi number came from my understanding of physics. Here's linkable evidence:

World's First Air-Powered Car: Zero Emissions by Next Summer - Popular Mechanics



True. So I'm curious about why you said this:



None of those claims are even remotely true.

Whether you understand physics or not is irrelevant. You pulled the 1000 psi number out of your ass, based on someone else's design, yet you want me to argue your arbitrary figure instead of the OP. Sorry.

No, I asked for a link to the specs. You never provided one. I then did a quick calculation based on my understanding of physics and got to about 1000 psi, knowing that all the designs I've ever been exposed to were well over that.

I don't have the specs. Maybe you are under the impression that I built this compressed air car. I did not. But I did find the website and posted it here for discussion.

I suggest you use the contact link at their site and ask them all your wonderful questions. The come back here with your answers. It'll be fun!



Nope. It's too expensive to buy and to use.

Your biased opinion.

Nope because it would cost much more in electricity costs.

That's where solar comes in. <----LINKS!!!

Nope.

What are you trying to link to? Quote it here, linking to it. I'm not going to search long documents, trying to discern what you think you know.


Or try this one:

How Much Gas Does Your State Use Per Person? » INFRASTRUCTURIST

Neither of your links refutes the $2500 average per year gas cost.

"running it for 2 minutes each day will use hardly any energy at all." - that's not a claim that's remotely true?

Nope.

Link?

Now, maybe a $79 Sears compressor might not do it - or maybe it would, but the OP states that this would be a low cost option. I would imaging that wouldn't be the case if you had to buy a very expensive compressor.

Your imagination does not correlate to reality.

You've got nothing.

 

[edthecynic]

Heh!

Yeah, Tata has a design that one day will allow refueling at specific stations in 2-3 minutes but 220-380v compressors included with the car will take 3-4 hours to refill.

The Air Car - zero pollution and very low running costs

Now how much electricity is used running a 220v compressor for 3 hours? 10 bucks here. So $10 for 180 miles. That's a cost increase, not a decrease and it's not cleaner at all since all that electricity is still consumed.

Ten bucks to run a compressor for 3 to 4 hours!!!

My friend has an all electric 2 bedroom house and his highest electric bill is $350 a month in the winter. That's less than $12 per day to heat the house, the water, burn the lights, run the refrigerator, the dishwasher, TV and stereo and you expect me to believe that running a small compressor for 3 to 4 hours uses almost as much electricity as a whole house uses in the winter.

Define "small." Remember, the compressor has to fill a tank to over 1000 psi. Do you know of any "small" compressor that can do that?

I guess it depends on the definition of "small."

As opposed to the ignorant reactionary leftist? One that is clueless about how much it costs to fill up a tank capable of moving a car?

If I'm so "clueless" about how much it costs to recharge the tank of the air car, why don't you warranty your claim of $10 per tank, SUCKER????

Sure.

Back when I was doing construction we'd have temporary power hooked up to the house and were given detailed billing of our usage. Running nothing but an air compressor to power paint sprayers and impact wrenches because there were no lights or electrical outlets (we were hanging drywall and painting), the bill worked out to about $3 per hour that the meter was running.

I don't see a dollar figure that you are willing to back that $3 per hour anecdotal figure up with, therefore it's WORTHLESS.

You do know that the car was first released in France and they have the cost of recharging it at French electricity rates, which are higher than the USA, using the BUILT-IN compressor that takes 4 hours, don't you? Of course you do, that's why you won't put up any money against me.

 

[American Horse]

Are you trying to say it will cost $10 to recharge the tank?
If you are, would you like to put some money on it?

To air charge a tank large enough to propel a car weighing 500 pounds carrying 2 passengers weighing, GVWt. 750 lbs, 62 miles powered entirely by compressed air would cost more than $10 to fill at home (and significantly more than $10 at a commercial convenience station).

My rationale is based on the First law of thermodynamics/conservation of energy: "The law of conservation of energy is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created or destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy."

You don't have to explain the FLoT to me, I'm a physicist.
if you really believe it will cost $10 to fill the compressed air tank, warranty it with some money. I'll match any amount you can afford to lose without welshing. We can settle up anonymously with Paypal.

To asterism: If I'm so "clueless" about how much it costs to recharge the tank of the air car, why don't you warranty your claim of $10 per tank, SUCKER????

You do know that the car was first released in France and they have the cost of recharging it at French electricity rates, which are higher than the USA, using the BUILT-IN compressor that takes 4 hours, don't you? Of course you do, that's why you won't put up any money against me.

I for one don&#8217;t; source on that?
And now the vehicle is loaded down with a BUILT-IN compressor?

At any rate, read my statement; my disagreement is in the real cost per mile. If the above (France stuff) is accurate, then the miles it will travel, loaded, cannot be 62 miles.

I posted the blurb on FLoT, not to tutor you but to remind you to consider the proposition we&#8217;re discussing here:
The vehicle, from the data sheet, basic model, weighs 320 kg or 710 pounds; we can assume a single passenger/driver at 190 pounds totaling 900 pounds.

The WORK required to move a vehicle with a passenger (weighing total 900 pounds) a distance of 62 miles is 900# X 5280 ft. (ft/mile) X 62 mi. = 294,624,000 Foot pounds (FPE=F.)

or 294,624,000-F

1-kwh (KWH=WORK - CHART) = 2,655,000F.

Therefore:
294,624,000-F divided by 2,655,000F per kwh = 110.97 KWHr. that is the work (energy) to deliver the required foot-pounds to move the loaded vehicle 62 miles.


Furthermore, to convert electrical energy to mechanical energy to charge the tank with air, and then to change the compressed air to mechanical energy to move the vehicle is not done at 100% efficiency. You, as a physicist, are much more capable than I to calculate that; what is it &#8211; 90%? ... 85%? We do know that it is not 100%.

So let&#8217;s use 95% (which we know is far far too close to 1.0)

110.97 kwh/.95 = 116.81-kwh

Utility rate: $0.1 per kwh (which you used is among the lowest US rates) gives us a cost of about $11.68 per 62 mile trip.

That is the whole bone of contention for me. The salient points are 62 miles, vehicle size/weight, and energy cost to deliver
So where is the proof otherwise from the France case?

Respectfully, you're the physicist; is my math skewed?

 

[asterism]

Whether you understand physics or not is irrelevant. You pulled the 1000 psi number out of your ass, based on someone else's design, yet you want me to argue your arbitrary figure instead of the OP. Sorry.

No, I asked for a link to the specs. You never provided one. I then did a quick calculation based on my understanding of physics and got to about 1000 psi, knowing that all the designs I've ever been exposed to were well over that.

I don't have the specs. Maybe you are under the impression that I built this compressed air car. I did not. But I did find the website and posted it here for discussion.

I suggest you use the contact link at their site and ask them all your wonderful questions. The come back here with your answers. It'll be fun!



Nope. It's too expensive to buy and to use.

Your biased opinion.

Nope because it would cost much more in electricity costs.

That's where solar comes in. <----LINKS!!!

Nope.

What are you trying to link to? Quote it here, linking to it. I'm not going to search long documents, trying to discern what you think you know.


Or try this one:

How Much Gas Does Your State Use Per Person? » INFRASTRUCTURIST

Neither of your links refutes the $2500 average per year gas cost.



Nope.

Link?

Now, maybe a $79 Sears compressor might not do it - or maybe it would, but the OP states that this would be a low cost option. I would imaging that wouldn't be the case if you had to buy a very expensive compressor.

Your imagination does not correlate to reality.

You've got nothing.

Good luck with your dream.

 

[asterism]

Ten bucks to run a compressor for 3 to 4 hours!!!

My friend has an all electric 2 bedroom house and his highest electric bill is $350 a month in the winter. That's less than $12 per day to heat the house, the water, burn the lights, run the refrigerator, the dishwasher, TV and stereo and you expect me to believe that running a small compressor for 3 to 4 hours uses almost as much electricity as a whole house uses in the winter.

Define "small." Remember, the compressor has to fill a tank to over 1000 psi. Do you know of any "small" compressor that can do that?

I guess it depends on the definition of "small."

If I'm so "clueless" about how much it costs to recharge the tank of the air car, why don't you warranty your claim of $10 per tank, SUCKER????

Sure.

Back when I was doing construction we'd have temporary power hooked up to the house and were given detailed billing of our usage. Running nothing but an air compressor to power paint sprayers and impact wrenches because there were no lights or electrical outlets (we were hanging drywall and painting), the bill worked out to about $3 per hour that the meter was running.

I don't see a dollar figure that you are willing to back that $3 per hour anecdotal figure up with, therefore it's WORTHLESS.

You do know that the car was first released in France and they have the cost of recharging it at French electricity rates, which are higher than the USA, using the BUILT-IN compressor that takes 4 hours, don't you? Of course you do, that's why you won't put up any money against me.

Sorry but I'm not going to play your silly trolling game. If you can figure out a way to anonymously settle the bet I'm in. If I'm incorrect I'd gladly pay up.

 

[edthecynic]

To air charge a tank large enough to propel a car weighing 500 pounds carrying 2 passengers weighing, GVWt. 750 lbs, 62 miles powered entirely by compressed air would cost more than $10 to fill at home (and significantly more than $10 at a commercial convenience station).

My rationale is based on the First law of thermodynamics/conservation of energy: "The law of conservation of energy is an empirical law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created or destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. The only thing that can happen to energy in a closed system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy."

You don't have to explain the FLoT to me, I'm a physicist.
if you really believe it will cost $10 to fill the compressed air tank, warranty it with some money. I'll match any amount you can afford to lose without welshing. We can settle up anonymously with Paypal.

To asterism: If I'm so "clueless" about how much it costs to recharge the tank of the air car, why don't you warranty your claim of $10 per tank, SUCKER????

You do know that the car was first released in France and they have the cost of recharging it at French electricity rates, which are higher than the USA, using the BUILT-IN compressor that takes 4 hours, don't you? Of course you do, that's why you won't put up any money against me.

I for one don’t; source on that?
And now the vehicle is loaded down with a BUILT-IN compressor?

At any rate, read my statement; my disagreement is in the real cost per mile. If the above (France stuff) is accurate, then the miles it will travel, loaded, cannot be 62 miles.

I posted the blurb on FLoT, not to tutor you but to remind you to consider the proposition we’re discussing here:
The vehicle, from the data sheet, basic model, weighs 320 kg or 710 pounds; we can assume a single passenger/driver at 190 pounds totaling 900 pounds.

The WORK required to move a vehicle with a passenger (weighing total 900 pounds) a distance of 62 miles is 900# X 5280 ft. (ft/mile) X 62 mi. = 294,624,000 Foot pounds (FPE=F.)

or 294,624,000-F

1-kwh (KWH=WORK - CHART) = 2,655,000F.

Therefore:
294,624,000-F divided by 2,655,000F per kwh = 110.97 KWHr. that is the work (energy) to deliver the required foot-pounds to move the loaded vehicle 62 miles.


Furthermore, to convert electrical energy to mechanical energy to charge the tank with air, and then to change the compressed air to mechanical energy to move the vehicle is not done at 100% efficiency. You, as a physicist, are much more capable than I to calculate that; what is it – 90%? ... 85%? We do know that it is not 100%.

So let’s use 95% (which we know is far far too close to 1.0)

110.97 kwh/.95 = 116.81-kwh

Utility rate: $0.1 per kwh (which you used is among the lowest US rates) gives us a cost of about $11.68 per 62 mile trip.

That is the whole bone of contention for me. The salient points are 62 miles, vehicle size/weight, and energy cost to deliver
So where is the proof otherwise from the France case?

Respectfully, you're the physicist; is my math skewed?

Well, if you were lifting the car and passenger 62 miles in the air you would have a case. But it takes considerably less work to push the weight 62 miles on wheels.
For example, I had a Triumph Spitfire and the starter went on it. I couldn't lift the car, but I could push the car with the driver side door open fast enough to hop inside it, pop the clutch and jump start it by myself.

While you didn't put up any money, you went through so much trouble with your calculations I'll post the link to the recharge costs with the car.

Car runs on compressed air, but will it sell? - U.S. news - Environment - Green Machines - msnbc.com

How it works
In both cars, an electric pump compresses air into the tank at a pressure of 300 bars. The pump plugs straight into an ordinary household socket and takes four hours to complete the recharge.
"When you get home you normally plug in your cell phone," said Braud. "Well, now you do that with your car too."




The already attractive economics of the Air Car — MDI claims a recharge costs just $2.50 at French electricity prices — can only get more persuasive if oil prices stay high.
"It certainly can't hurt," said Braud. "It will help encourage people to switch over."
The Air Car's pistons, pumped by the escaping compressed air, can take the vehicle up to 70 miles per hour. It can travel 50 miles at top speed on a full tank, or further at lower speeds.
Slightly pricier hybrid versions achieve higher speeds and longer ranges by running on a combination of compressed air and conventional gasoline, or bio-fuels derived from organic matter.

 

[editec]

Compressed Air powered cars solve ZERO energy problems.

They are a stupid idea EXCEPT for possible powering vehicles in places were ZERO pollution can be tolerated.

This is not immediately apparent to all of us?

Come on folks this is 8th grade science.

Converting energy into potential energy results in losses every time it is done.

Compressed air is nothing but potential energy that we spend more energy making that we can use.

I dont;' give a crap what compressor you use more energy to compress the gas is lost than is turned back into potential energy.

You might as well suggest that the solution to the energty problem is to tow everybody car up hill so that when we need to use it we can us GRAVITY.

WAKE UP and smell the laws of THERMO DYNAMICS

 

[asterism]

You don't have to explain the FLoT to me, I'm a physicist.
if you really believe it will cost $10 to fill the compressed air tank, warranty it with some money. I'll match any amount you can afford to lose without welshing. We can settle up anonymously with Paypal.

To asterism: If I'm so "clueless" about how much it costs to recharge the tank of the air car, why don't you warranty your claim of $10 per tank, SUCKER????

You do know that the car was first released in France and they have the cost of recharging it at French electricity rates, which are higher than the USA, using the BUILT-IN compressor that takes 4 hours, don't you? Of course you do, that's why you won't put up any money against me.

I for one don&#8217;t; source on that?
And now the vehicle is loaded down with a BUILT-IN compressor?

At any rate, read my statement; my disagreement is in the real cost per mile. If the above (France stuff) is accurate, then the miles it will travel, loaded, cannot be 62 miles.

I posted the blurb on FLoT, not to tutor you but to remind you to consider the proposition we&#8217;re discussing here:
The vehicle, from the data sheet, basic model, weighs 320 kg or 710 pounds; we can assume a single passenger/driver at 190 pounds totaling 900 pounds.

The WORK required to move a vehicle with a passenger (weighing total 900 pounds) a distance of 62 miles is 900# X 5280 ft. (ft/mile) X 62 mi. = 294,624,000 Foot pounds (FPE=F.)

or 294,624,000-F

1-kwh (KWH=WORK - CHART) = 2,655,000F.

Therefore:
294,624,000-F divided by 2,655,000F per kwh = 110.97 KWHr. that is the work (energy) to deliver the required foot-pounds to move the loaded vehicle 62 miles.


Furthermore, to convert electrical energy to mechanical energy to charge the tank with air, and then to change the compressed air to mechanical energy to move the vehicle is not done at 100% efficiency. You, as a physicist, are much more capable than I to calculate that; what is it &#8211; 90%? ... 85%? We do know that it is not 100%.

So let&#8217;s use 95% (which we know is far far too close to 1.0)

110.97 kwh/.95 = 116.81-kwh

Utility rate: $0.1 per kwh (which you used is among the lowest US rates) gives us a cost of about $11.68 per 62 mile trip.

That is the whole bone of contention for me. The salient points are 62 miles, vehicle size/weight, and energy cost to deliver
So where is the proof otherwise from the France case?

Respectfully, you're the physicist; is my math skewed?

Well, if you were lifting the car and passenger 62 miles in the air you would have a case. But it takes considerably less work to push the weight 62 miles on wheels.
For example, I had a Triumph Spitfire and the starter went on it. I couldn't lift the car, but I could push the car with the driver side door open fast enough to hop inside it, pop the clutch and jump start it by myself.

While you didn't put up any money, you went through so much trouble with your calculations I'll post the link to the recharge costs with the car.

Car runs on compressed air, but will it sell? - U.S. news - Environment - Green Machines - msnbc.com

How it works
In both cars, an electric pump compresses air into the tank at a pressure of 300 bars. The pump plugs straight into an ordinary household socket and takes four hours to complete the recharge.
"When you get home you normally plug in your cell phone," said Braud. "Well, now you do that with your car too."




The already attractive economics of the Air Car &#8212; MDI claims a recharge costs just $2.50 at French electricity prices &#8212; can only get more persuasive if oil prices stay high.
"It certainly can't hurt," said Braud. "It will help encourage people to switch over."
The Air Car's pistons, pumped by the escaping compressed air, can take the vehicle up to 70 miles per hour. It can travel 50 miles at top speed on a full tank, or further at lower speeds.
Slightly pricier hybrid versions achieve higher speeds and longer ranges by running on a combination of compressed air and conventional gasoline, or bio-fuels derived from organic matter.

Please explain to the class how a compressor can charge a tank to 300 bar (that's 4351 psi) for $2.50?

Here's a handy formula:

HP x .746 x hours x Kw cost / motor efficiency

Assuming $.15 per Kwh and a 100% efficient motor, that means $2.5 would run a 22hp compressor for one hour or in the example you quoted, a 5 hp motor for 4 hours.

Now tell us where we can get a compressor that reaches 300 bar in an hour using a 22 hp motor, or a compressor that reaches 4351 psi on 5 hp in any time frame?

 

[Immanuel]

Compressed Air powered cars solve ZERO energy problems.

They are a stupid idea EXCEPT for possible powering vehicles in places were ZERO pollution can be tolerated.

This is not immediately apparent to all of us?

Come on folks this is 8th grade science.

Converting energy into potential energy results in losses every time it is done.

Compressed air is nothing but potential energy that we spend more energy making that we can use.

I dont;' give a crap what compressor you use more energy to compress the gas is lost than is turned back into potential energy.

You might as well suggest that the solution to the energty problem is to tow everybody car up hill so that when we need to use it we can us GRAVITY.

WAKE UP and smell the laws of THERMO DYNAMICS

Sorry, but the way I see it is that if we all had that kind of an attitude, we'd still be trying to figure out how to make a wheel round.

Immie

 

[edthecynic]

I for one don’t; source on that?
And now the vehicle is loaded down with a BUILT-IN compressor?

At any rate, read my statement; my disagreement is in the real cost per mile. If the above (France stuff) is accurate, then the miles it will travel, loaded, cannot be 62 miles.

I posted the blurb on FLoT, not to tutor you but to remind you to consider the proposition we’re discussing here:
The vehicle, from the data sheet, basic model, weighs 320 kg or 710 pounds; we can assume a single passenger/driver at 190 pounds totaling 900 pounds.

The WORK required to move a vehicle with a passenger (weighing total 900 pounds) a distance of 62 miles is 900# X 5280 ft. (ft/mile) X 62 mi. = 294,624,000 Foot pounds (FPE=F.)

or 294,624,000-F

1-kwh (KWH=WORK - CHART) = 2,655,000F.

Therefore:
294,624,000-F divided by 2,655,000F per kwh = 110.97 KWHr. that is the work (energy) to deliver the required foot-pounds to move the loaded vehicle 62 miles.


Furthermore, to convert electrical energy to mechanical energy to charge the tank with air, and then to change the compressed air to mechanical energy to move the vehicle is not done at 100% efficiency. You, as a physicist, are much more capable than I to calculate that; what is it – 90%? ... 85%? We do know that it is not 100%.

So let’s use 95% (which we know is far far too close to 1.0)

110.97 kwh/.95 = 116.81-kwh

Utility rate: $0.1 per kwh (which you used is among the lowest US rates) gives us a cost of about $11.68 per 62 mile trip.

That is the whole bone of contention for me. The salient points are 62 miles, vehicle size/weight, and energy cost to deliver
So where is the proof otherwise from the France case?

Respectfully, you're the physicist; is my math skewed?

Well, if you were lifting the car and passenger 62 miles in the air you would have a case. But it takes considerably less work to push the weight 62 miles on wheels.
For example, I had a Triumph Spitfire and the starter went on it. I couldn't lift the car, but I could push the car with the driver side door open fast enough to hop inside it, pop the clutch and jump start it by myself.

While you didn't put up any money, you went through so much trouble with your calculations I'll post the link to the recharge costs with the car.

Car runs on compressed air, but will it sell? - U.S. news - Environment - Green Machines - msnbc.com

How it works
In both cars, an electric pump compresses air into the tank at a pressure of 300 bars. The pump plugs straight into an ordinary household socket and takes four hours to complete the recharge.
"When you get home you normally plug in your cell phone," said Braud. "Well, now you do that with your car too."




The already attractive economics of the Air Car — MDI claims a recharge costs just $2.50 at French electricity prices — can only get more persuasive if oil prices stay high.
"It certainly can't hurt," said Braud. "It will help encourage people to switch over."
The Air Car's pistons, pumped by the escaping compressed air, can take the vehicle up to 70 miles per hour. It can travel 50 miles at top speed on a full tank, or further at lower speeds.
Slightly pricier hybrid versions achieve higher speeds and longer ranges by running on a combination of compressed air and conventional gasoline, or bio-fuels derived from organic matter.

Please explain to the class how a compressor can charge a tank to 300 bar (that's 4351 psi) for $2.50?

Here's a handy formula:

HP x .746 x hours x Kw cost / motor efficiency

Assuming $.15 per Kwh and a 100% efficient motor, that means $2.5 would run a 22hp compressor for one hour or in the example you quoted, a 5 hp motor for 4 hours.

Now tell us where we can get a compressor that reaches 300 bar in an hour using a 22 hp motor, or a compressor that reaches 4351 psi on 5 hp in any time frame?

Simple! Just buy the air car, it comes with its own pump!!!!!

 

[asterism]

Well, if you were lifting the car and passenger 62 miles in the air you would have a case. But it takes considerably less work to push the weight 62 miles on wheels.
For example, I had a Triumph Spitfire and the starter went on it. I couldn't lift the car, but I could push the car with the driver side door open fast enough to hop inside it, pop the clutch and jump start it by myself.

While you didn't put up any money, you went through so much trouble with your calculations I'll post the link to the recharge costs with the car.

Car runs on compressed air, but will it sell? - U.S. news - Environment - Green Machines - msnbc.com

How it works
In both cars, an electric pump compresses air into the tank at a pressure of 300 bars. The pump plugs straight into an ordinary household socket and takes four hours to complete the recharge.
"When you get home you normally plug in your cell phone," said Braud. "Well, now you do that with your car too."




The already attractive economics of the Air Car &#8212; MDI claims a recharge costs just $2.50 at French electricity prices &#8212; can only get more persuasive if oil prices stay high.
"It certainly can't hurt," said Braud. "It will help encourage people to switch over."
The Air Car's pistons, pumped by the escaping compressed air, can take the vehicle up to 70 miles per hour. It can travel 50 miles at top speed on a full tank, or further at lower speeds.
Slightly pricier hybrid versions achieve higher speeds and longer ranges by running on a combination of compressed air and conventional gasoline, or bio-fuels derived from organic matter.

Please explain to the class how a compressor can charge a tank to 300 bar (that's 4351 psi) for $2.50?

Here's a handy formula:

HP x .746 x hours x Kw cost / motor efficiency

Assuming $.15 per Kwh and a 100% efficient motor, that means $2.5 would run a 22hp compressor for one hour or in the example you quoted, a 5 hp motor for 4 hours.

Now tell us where we can get a compressor that reaches 300 bar in an hour using a 22 hp motor, or a compressor that reaches 4351 psi on 5 hp in any time frame?

Simple! Just buy the air car, it comes with its own pump!!!!!

Ok, let's try this another way.

Please explain the physics that would have to take place to convert 16 kWh of electricity to 4351 psi using a 5 hp compressor.

 

[JoReba]

Awesome technology, totally clean, and you can fill it up from your garage!


***********************************************************



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• A basic version from € 3500
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The fruit of more than ten years of researches, MDI’s mono-energy engines operate on a totally eco-friendly basis using compressed air stored at high pressure.
These engines are used on vehicles designed for urban use, backup generators or industrial tractors. They are particularly tailored for applications where the torque has an importance and when an averagely moderate power is needed.
Together with the zero pollution engines, some other versions having the same technical basis have also been created by MDI, they are known as the dual-energy engines. In the case of dual-energy engines, an energetic adjuvant (petrol, diesel, oil, alcohol or gas) is burned in an external continuous combustion chamber. These dual-energy engines have more range and the amount of toxic gases released is very low.

• Less than two Liters per hundred Kilometers (at 90 Km/h for MiniFlowAIR)
• Zero NOx,
• 3 to 4000 times less unburned HC compared to conventional engines.
• 3 times less C02 emissions in comparison to classic engines.

These engines will be fitted on production generators. Regarding the vehicles that will be operated using these engines; there will be no pollution when used in towns as they would be operating on the ‘compressed air mode’ only.
On the motorway these engines provide a good range thanks to the combustion of the liquid or gas adjuvant.
Finally based on this new technology, MDI has imagined and developed a « thermodynamic theory » which will give rise to further improvement in the years to come, thus creating a real energetic revolution.
All MDI engines have an active chamber and are protected worldwide by patents.
They can be used for a wide range of applications, varying from 4 to 75 hp.
The engines will be used in the following:

• Urban transporters
• MDI’s eco-friendly cars (OneFlowAIR, MiniFlowAIR and CityFlowAIR)
• MDI’s urban transporters (MultiFlowAIR)
• Production and backup generators
• Tow tractors and fork-lifts
• Agricultural tractors
• Boat engine
• Light aircraft engine

Guess waht? It still takes carbon producing electricity to compress the air for the car. Understand ... ? Lol. In fact, the air engine is much less thermodynamically efficient than an electric car.

 

[Synthaholic]

Now, this is the compressed air car that I want!

2010 Volvo Air Motion Concept Design


Let’s face it, nearly everybody in the world is affected by the price of fuel and this has affected our lifestyle. But with the Volvo Air Motion Canyon Carver, gasoline is history. That’s right, this is a vehicle that uses no gasoline at all but still considered to be a fast car. This car uses air to run.

Its exterior is designed like a clamshell; a body made from carbon fiber and can hold up to four people. The normally heavy conventional internal engine is replaced by compressed air motors. Theses motors cool down instead of heating up when it is under load, making heavy cooling systems unnecessary for the vehicle, thus making it lighter. Instead of gasoline stations, the mounted air tank of the vehicle is filled with compressed air using “Air Replenishment Sites”; these sites are outfitted with a wind-power air turbines suspended one-thousand feet in the air. This car makes people say goodbye to gasoline, gasoline-powered cars and/or vehicles, and although this doesn’t eliminate the need for gasoline completely, it eliminates one of the machines that need it the most.