5'2", 110lbs. Can you handle him?

[Sweet Willy]

I hate to argue with you but let me add.. not just weak hearts die in electrocution..A Heart beats in rhythm to an electrical impulse.. all you have to do in interrupt that impulse and send it in another direction and the heart will stop beating.. conversely if the heart beats in an aberrant rhythm you can shock it and get it in synch again. Ohm's law..

Ohms Law? You're kidding me?






Arm chair electrical geniuses.

you've proven yourself to be the biggest idiot on the board and it took you no time at all.. congratulations.. psuedolawyer

I respect your right to that opinion.

Ohms law is not an opinion. You don't get that kind of lattitude.

Please, go on about this "Ohms law".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Tasers can kill??? News to me folks. I had no idea. Seriously.

Sorry, my son is just about 16 is about 5'2" and weighs right around the 110 mark. A big kid he is not. If a short, middle-aged mom in good shape can handle this kid, two cops - regardless of gender or height - certainly should have been able to handle this kid. No excuses.

Aren't cops trained to assess situations? If he was learning disabled - and that can mean many things - this may very well have been apparent by his response to the cop's questions. If my son were confronted by anyone, they would know within 5 seconds after he answered a question that he was special needs. Not saying the same is true for this kid but . . . . it may be.

People on drugs sound just like the learning disabled ... too close to call in most situations and with all the cops killed by junkies because they didn't think they were, meh, tasers are the least harmful. Only those with heart problems are at risk of dying from them, and you can't expect a cop to ask for medical history in the field.

A learning disabled kid may very well present as a drug addict . . . but he wasn't. He wasn't armed, he wasn't big and he was learning disabled. Since the kid had no weapon you mean to tell me they couldn't have gotten a pair of cuffs on him without using a taser? If two cops cannot handle a kid this size then maybe they should be on desk duty.

And they knew he was learning disabled, not on drugs, and not armed how, precisely? They tasered him because they had no way of knowing any of the above.

 

[Sweet Willy]

People on drugs sound just like the learning disabled ... too close to call in most situations and with all the cops killed by junkies because they didn't think they were, meh, tasers are the least harmful. Only those with heart problems are at risk of dying from them, and you can't expect a cop to ask for medical history in the field.

A learning disabled kid may very well present as a drug addict . . . but he wasn't. He wasn't armed, he wasn't big and he was learning disabled. Since the kid had no weapon you mean to tell me they couldn't have gotten a pair of cuffs on him without using a taser? If two cops cannot handle a kid this size then maybe they should be on desk duty.

And they knew he was learning disabled, not on drugs, and not armed how, precisely? They tasered him because they had no way of knowing any of the above.

You are citing ignorance as an excuse?

This should be interesting.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It is used all over the world and accepted as reasonable force.

Again ... yes it is ... depending on the situation.

Shooting and killing a suspect is also reasonable force in certain situations.

You must mean common sense? No one is accusing the police of using common sense, an error of judgement maybe, but hardly likely to be murder.They acted within the guidlines and training but we all know they could have physically arrested the boy without much injury to anybody, at the same time I am positive they didn't think the tazer would kill the lad.

"We all know" it because we're hearing the details after the fact, sitting in our comfy computer chairs, Monday morning-quarterbacking it. We weren't there, in the heat of the moment, watching this kid jump out of the car and haul ass, wondering if he was doing so because he had a gun and was going to start shooting people if we chased him down.

Hindsight is fucking 20/20, especially when it's not our own actions we're looking at.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Please.

I was arrested a couple of times as a teenager when I weighed all of 110 lbs and even though I resisted the cops were able to get me down and cuff me w/out any difficulties. I was bumped up a bit but there was no stink made about it because I was guilty as all hell and a little soreness didn't kill me.

can you say beyond a shadow of a doubt that taser force in this situation was unreasonable?

Of course not. Just like you cannot say beyond a shadow of a doubt that taser force was reasonable. Neither of us are arbiters of such a thing. We are obviously in the realm of opinion here, counselor

Actually, the Internal Affairs investigation said it WAS reasonable, according to the article, and they ARE the arbiters of such a thing.

 

[KittenKoder]

Let me explain this really slow, since you don't or won't get it: ELECTROCUTION is DEATH by electric shock. If you had been electrocuted, you wouldn't be here.

If you are elctrocuted by an outlet in your home, you die. Get it? If you live, you got shocked. How many amps do you think that typical circuit is rated for? 15? 20? How much does it take to kill a person? How did you get shocked but NOT electrocuted by a 20 amp circuit? Do you know? Is a taser AC or DC? What's the difference?

You are largely ignorant of this subject.

Let me repeat, since you are so slow, YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN ELECTROCUTED.

Then what is the act of having electricity passing through you?

Alternating current allows electricity to be transported longer distances with fewer amps, thus why power lines are AC. Tasers use pules current, a mixture of alternating and direct ... sort of. 20 amps will kill you most likely, few people will survive that, wall outlets are at 15 amps and have about a 50% chance of killing a seemingly healthy person. Now, if you are done baiting ... tasers are not deadly to most people, they lack the amperage to kill unless there is a heart defect.

The internet crash course isn't going to save you.

Electrocution, again, is DEATH by electrical current. Having current passed through you is electrical shock.

And now that you have your internet search education, you've gone from saying that most people aren't killed by an electrical outlet shock to saying that it's a 50/50 proposition. And that's healthy people. If we add in the unhealthy, how many people are killed? And what is this about amperage? Before you were measuring taser current in watts?

You can fool some people with that song and dance.

Being technically minded does not mean I know how to communicate with you fleshlings, and it was a mistype. English may be my primary language, but that doesn't mean I can communicate with it perfectly. Hell, I don't even know how to explain half of what I do on computers to another programmer ... I just know it. Amperage is what I had meant, I fixed it ... apparently after you read it, amps are what kill you, they are what gives electricity the real "punch" ... volts hurt, amps can kill. Yes, your song and dance is just getting old. You would blame cops for doing the right thing ... probably hang them out to dry until YOU need them ... then you'll rant and rave that they didn't do enough.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Police in Detroit had trouble with 16 year old boy, 5 feet, 2 inches tall, 110 pounds. So they tasered him and it killed him.

The tasers are getting a bit out of hand. If you can't handle a scrawny kid, find a job you are qualified for.

Just my 2 cents.

'No excuse' for learning-disabled teen's Taser death, mother says - CNN.com

I worked with autistic/ retarded people for years and one in particular who weighed about 135 lbs and would toss 3 or four of us around like we were rag dolls.

So until you've handles a "scrawny kid" like that, reserve judgment.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm not accusing these cops of murder either. I think that they used poor judgement in tasering the kid. I think the force they used was unnecessary but I certainly don't think they thought they were going or intended to kill the kid ... that's silly.

We agre it was accidental then?Debate over.

Of course it was accidental. There was no intent to kill the kid, IMO. My position is that kid didn't have to be tazed in the first place and had they used proper judgment he'd be alive.

Of course, if HE had used proper judgement, he'd be alive.

 

[WillowTree]

Ohms Law? You're kidding me?






Arm chair electrical geniuses.

you've proven yourself to be the biggest idiot on the board and it took you no time at all.. congratulations.. psuedolawyer

I respect your right to that opinion.

Ohms law is not an opinion. You don't get that kind of lattitude.

Please, go on about this "Ohms law".

I had to think about this for a bit,,, real real real slow??? You think Ohm's law is about Law??? as in lawyer law/??

 

[Cecilie1200]

Taser safety issues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I would think 2 in a thousand seems high. However, I would like to see the numbers when taking into account ALL people. Not just healthy people. After all, we can't take medical histories and know if it's OK or not taser them.

Or can we assume that since most cops wear a vest we can safely shoot them with only some pain?

Someone with a weak heart is just as likely to die from being jostled to, hitting the chest right and heard enough can throw even a healthy person into cardiac arrest. Striking the head can cause a person to feel fine for about an hour then suddenly drop dead with no signs of injury. As I said, anything can kill you, if used correctly.

What I want to know from you is if electrocution is fatal or not? Until you can settle the score on your knowledge of fatal electrical incidents I have to disregard anything you have to add here.

So, is electrocution fatal or not? You claim to have been electrocuted many times and seem to be no worse for it. This is EXTREMELY vitale to the value of anything you have to say here. I don't think you know a damned thing about what is fatal regarding electric shock.

Electrocution CAN be fatal. The fact that you keep using it as a buzzword (no pun intended) doesn't mean anything. Also, ANY electrical current carries the possibility of intefering with the heart's pacemaker and triggering heart failure. In fact, that's exactly what a defibrillating machine is DESIGNED to do. It stops the heart's pacemaker when it's malfunctioning, so that it will hopefully reset itself and go back to working properly.

At a guess, I'd say people dying from tazers, which SHOULD be a non-lethal voltage, are a fluke caused by bad interaction with the pacemaker. It happens, much the same as a handful of people have bad reactions to general anesthesia during surgery and die on the operating table. It doesn't mean that the anesthesia is being recklessly or improperly used, or that it's dangerous in general and should be discontinued. Shit just happens.

 

[Article 15]

Seems people would rather the cops go back to shooting people. Well, I'm all for that, fewer criminals ultimately.

Just a tad of hyperbole there ...

How about reasonable force, KK?

Is it reasonable for two cops to have to tazer a little kid like that?

What did you want them to do? And be specific.

Two cops, one 110 lb kid?

Seriously?

But since you asked ...

Any cop should be able to singlehandedly overpower a 110 lb kid, wrap his arms up, put him on the ground and cuff him. But since they had two cops to handle this 110 lbs (did I mention this kid was one hundred and ten pounds?) they could have simply had one cop overpower the kid, wrap his arms up, put the him on the ground and restrain while the other one cuffs.

Not too difficult at all. This is a 110 lbs kid not a 200 lb grown ass man.

 

[Yurt]

Just a tad of hyperbole there ...

How about reasonable force, KK?

Is it reasonable for two cops to have to tazer a little kid like that?

What did you want them to do? And be specific.

Two cops, one 110 lb kid?

Seriously?

But since you asked ...

Any cop should be able to singlehandedly overpower a 110 lb kid, wrap his arms up, put him on the ground and cuff him. But since they had two cops to handle this 110 lbs (did I mention this kid was one hundred and ten pounds?) they could have simply had one cop overpower the kid, wrap his arms up, put the him on the ground and restrain while the other one cuffs.

Not too difficult at all. This is a 110 lbs kid not a 200 lb grown ass man.

what is this?

 

[WillowTree]

Someone with a weak heart is just as likely to die from being jostled to, hitting the chest right and heard enough can throw even a healthy person into cardiac arrest. Striking the head can cause a person to feel fine for about an hour then suddenly drop dead with no signs of injury. As I said, anything can kill you, if used correctly.

What I want to know from you is if electrocution is fatal or not? Until you can settle the score on your knowledge of fatal electrical incidents I have to disregard anything you have to add here.

So, is electrocution fatal or not? You claim to have been electrocuted many times and seem to be no worse for it. This is EXTREMELY vitale to the value of anything you have to say here. I don't think you know a damned thing about what is fatal regarding electric shock.

Electrocution CAN be fatal. The fact that you keep using it as a buzzword (no pun intended) doesn't mean anything. Also, ANY electrical current carries the possibility of intefering with the heart's pacemaker and triggering heart failure. In fact, that's exactly what a defibrillating machine is DESIGNED to do. It stops the heart's pacemaker when it's malfunctioning, so that it will hopefully reset itself and go back to working properly.

At a guess, I'd say people dying from tazers, which SHOULD be a non-lethal voltage, are a fluke caused by bad interaction with the pacemaker. It happens, much the same as a handful of people have bad reactions to general anesthesia during surgery and die on the operating table. It doesn't mean that the anesthesia is being recklessly or improperly used, or that it's dangerous in general and should be discontinued. Shit just happens.

didn't I read the autopsy was not complete?? people who are tazed go over like falling trees,, it's possible he suffered a head injury or something.

 

[Article 15]

can you say beyond a shadow of a doubt that taser force in this situation was unreasonable?

Of course not. Just like you cannot say beyond a shadow of a doubt that taser force was reasonable. Neither of us are arbiters of such a thing. We are obviously in the realm of opinion here, counselor

Actually, the Internal Affairs investigation said it WAS reasonable, according to the article, and they ARE the arbiters of such a thing.

Cops investigating cops.

 

[Article 15]

What did you want them to do? And be specific.

Two cops, one 110 lb kid?

Seriously?

But since you asked ...

Any cop should be able to singlehandedly overpower a 110 lb kid, wrap his arms up, put him on the ground and cuff him. But since they had two cops to handle this 110 lbs (did I mention this kid was one hundred and ten pounds?) they could have simply had one cop overpower the kid, wrap his arms up, put the him on the ground and restrain while the other one cuffs.

Not too difficult at all. This is a 110 lbs kid not a 200 lb grown ass man.

what is this?

lol ...

An expression.

 

[Article 15]

We agre it was accidental then?Debate over.

Of course it was accidental. There was no intent to kill the kid, IMO. My position is that kid didn't have to be tazed in the first place and had they used proper judgment he'd be alive.

Of course, if HE had used proper judgement, he'd be alive.

Sure but his lack of judgement didn't warrant death.

 

[WillowTree]

Of course not. Just like you cannot say beyond a shadow of a doubt that taser force was reasonable. Neither of us are arbiters of such a thing. We are obviously in the realm of opinion here, counselor

Actually, the Internal Affairs investigation said it WAS reasonable, according to the article, and they ARE the arbiters of such a thing.

Cops investigating cops.

Well, we can assign OJ's jury,, I'm sure they will come up with the conclusion that will please you!

 

[Cecilie1200]

A learning disabled kid may very well present as a drug addict . . . but he wasn't. He wasn't armed, he wasn't big and he was learning disabled. Since the kid had no weapon you mean to tell me they couldn't have gotten a pair of cuffs on him without using a taser? If two cops cannot handle a kid this size then maybe they should be on desk duty.

And they knew he was learning disabled, not on drugs, and not armed how, precisely? They tasered him because they had no way of knowing any of the above.

You are citing ignorance as an excuse?

This should be interesting.

You are suggesting they're not supposed to make decisions until they know EVERYTHING? THAT should be interesting.

They made a reasonable decision based on the information they had to work with at the time. That's why the IA investigation - which I can assure you is in a better position to decide than you hanging out on the Internet - ruled that those cops did nothing wrong.

People make decisions every day with less-than-complete knowledge. Some people, like you, do nothing BUT.

 

[Sweet Willy]

[
Electrocution CAN be fatal. .

No. Electrocution IS fatal. Using Electrocution to describe a non fatal electric shock or burn is "BUZZ WORD".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Just a tad of hyperbole there ...

How about reasonable force, KK?

Is it reasonable for two cops to have to tazer a little kid like that?

What did you want them to do? And be specific.

Two cops, one 110 lb kid?

Seriously?

But since you asked ...

Any cop should be able to singlehandedly overpower a 110 lb kid, wrap his arms up, put him on the ground and cuff him. But since they had two cops to handle this 110 lbs (did I mention this kid was one hundred and ten pounds?) they could have simply had one cop overpower the kid, wrap his arms up, put the him on the ground and restrain while the other one cuffs.

Not too difficult at all. This is a 110 lbs kid not a 200 lb grown ass man.

I didn't ask you to speculate on "should be able to" and "not difficult at all'> I asked you to tell me SPECIFICALLY what they were supposed to do in THIS SPECIFIC situation, if not taser him. As usual, I am having to ask you AGAIN, because you refuse to pull your head out of your ass and actually use it to think, rather than merely separating your ears.

Strike one. Try again, and see if you can answer the question.