2015, the beginning of ice free arctic?

[Old Rocks]

No amount of evidence is going to convince those that have made up their mind to ignore reality.

 

[Saigon]

wider and wilder, with an overall warming

Why is it that none of the charts you've ever posted shows that?

Why is it that you ask, when you know full well you won't look at the answer?

I can post charts that prove this point very clearly - will you commit to looking at them and discussing them sensibly?

 

[SSDD]

No amount of evidence is going to convince those that have made up their mind to ignore reality.

The fact that warming has stalled for going on 2 decades now in spite of steadily increasing atmospheric CO2 is reality and tells thinking people that CO2 is not the control knob for the climate. Warmers, as you note, dismiss all evidence to the contrary and continue to beleve that CO2 is causing climate change and no amount of observable evidence around you is going to alter your belief.

 

[SSDD]

Ha! Wonderful stuff, SSDD - you rarely fail to make me laugh out loud.

So just to be clear here - there are FIVE major independent sources of climate data.

You ignore all five of them.

Is that correct?

The two individuals are NOT major independent sources for anything. The fact that you believe they are and represent them as such is further indication of your dishonesty.

The three that are left have all been caught red handed blatantly tampering with temperature records. Why would you believe anything coming from agencies that have been caught altering data?

 

[SSDD]

I missed that because it doesn't exist except in the myths, lies, and fantasies that rattle around in your little denier cult bizarro-world echo chamber. Your "abundance of undeniable proof" is a fantasy that you can't produce or show us.

In your koolaid stupor, you are evidently unable to differentiate between observable reality and myth. Multiple examples of data tampering have been posted here on this board, you have commented on them, and yet, believe they are a myth. You grow more detatched from reality every day. Stop drinking the koolaid.

 

[SSDD]

You're the liar here, SSoooDDuuumb, and a rotten one at that. You're a scientifically ignorant retard parroting the myths and lies the fossil fuel industry propagandists have spooned into your little pea-brain. Your denial of reality is just pathetic.

No thunder, you are the liar...or duped beyond belief. As to parrotting, you make me laugh considering that you remain completely unable to actually discuss any scientific topic on your own and are constrained to cut and paste parrotting of the material you are spoonfed by your high priests.

The only words of your own you have, as evidenced by this post are impotent name calling that smacks of inferiority and desperation.

 

[SSDD]

The earliest fossil evidence for anatomically modern Homo sapiens dates back only about 200,000 years. We have evolved to be suited to the climatic conditions that have prevailed over that time. The Earth has been in a Great Ice Age for the last 2.5 million years. The human race has never experienced the very different climate ranges that occurred before the Ice Age. Climate conditions not seen in millions of years that the excess CO2 we've dumped into the atmosphere are going to recreate, BTW.

The people who spoon feed you your information are obivously keeping you in the dark regarding the temperature swings that have happened over the past couple of hundred thousand years. It has been a great deal warmer than present within the past 200,000 years without increased atmospheric CO2. That should tell you something if you weren't in a continuous koolaid stupor.

The human race has never lived in a world where global average temperatures were 8 or 10 degrees hotter than present. The more important point that you're trying to ignore, is that when the human race lived during glacial periods, there weren't 7 billion of us to feed.

8 to 10 degrees warmer? Who is predicting that within the next million years. Even the most wacko crackpots aren't predicting that much temperature rise. But the paleorecord tells us that the bulk of earth history has been that much warmer and that life, both land and marine, both animal and plant have not only survived, but flourished.

We have lived in temperatures considerably warmer than the present within the past couple of hundred thousand years. This paper:

A probabilistic assessment of sea level variations within the last interglacial stage

Published in Geophysical Journal International finds that during the last interglacial, 115 to 130 thousand years ago, temperatures were higher and sea level rose at a much higher rate. In fact it found that sea level rose 8 meters higher than present northern hemisphere temperatures peaked at about 5 degrees warmer than present (again, warmer than even the crackpot warmists are predicting) and southern hemisphere temperatures peaked at 3 to 5 degrees warmer than present.



How will climate change affect food production?
The Guardian
By the Grantham Research Institute and Duncan Clark
19 September 2012 07
[/quote]

The grantham institute? Are you kidding? You believe science coming out of a school of economics and political science and ignore actual science being published in actual scientific journals? Stop drinking the koolaid, it is adversely affecting your ability to distinguis reality from cartoons. Here is a hint.....Foghorn Leghorn is not a real person.

 

[Saigon]

The three that are left have all been caught red handed blatantly tampering with temperature records. Why would you believe anything coming from agencies that have been caught altering data?

Firstly, because I have never seen any solid evidence that an records have been "tampered with".

Secondly, because I have never seen any solid evidence that any "tampering" was not done for good scientific reasons.

Thirdly, because there are numerous independent sources for data - perhaps 40 or 50 - and they all show roughly similar results.

You ignore all of them. Of course.

 

[Old Rocks]

No amount of evidence is going to convince those that have made up their mind to ignore reality.

The fact that warming has stalled for going on 2 decades now in spite of steadily increasing atmospheric CO2 is reality and tells thinking people that CO2 is not the control knob for the climate. Warmers, as you note, dismiss all evidence to the contrary and continue to beleve that CO2 is causing climate change and no amount of observable evidence around you is going to alter your belief.

My, my, still repeating this old lie. So, lets see how it has been 'stalled'.

Warmest years on record, NOAA;

1. 2010
2. 2005
3. 1998
4. 2003
5. 2002
6. 2006
2009
2007
9. 2004
10. 2012

How soon until we see the next big jump, like we saw in 1998? And then the last decade will look cool.

 

[IanC]

Ian C -

I am not really sure how many sources of weather data you think we need.

Personally, I think 5 is adequate - even if 1 or 2 of them are not using entirely their own data. Given both you and SSDD can find reasons to reject all 5, I can't imagine adding a 6th or a 7th would make any difference.

We have also seen the data collected by individual countries has been rejected out of hand, so in all I think what we are seeing is Denier refusing to consider something in the region of 40 completely distinct and independent sets of data.

I call that silly, myself.

I presume you mean temperature not weather.

as usual you are distorting my position into a strawman that you can easily mock while totally ignoring the difficult questions that I pose.

all of the organizations draw from the same pool of known temperature collection stations therefore they are not independent.

all of the organizations adjust the individual station series for various forms of bias that could introduce error into the readings.

there is ongoing controversy over the adjustments and the infilling of empty grid cells where no measurements exist.

it seems like a rather extraordinary coincidence that every new 'improvement' leads to either increasing recent temps, lowering historical temps, or both.

I have shown you examples. the shape of Iceland's temperature graph was 'corrected' to remove a cold period that was a well known cause of economic hardship, and the Icelandic Met Office was concerned that their data was being changed even though it was thoroughly documented. I gave another example of how GISS added ~0.1C to contUS recent data and subtracted ~0.1C to contUS data to pre-WWII. and that was just from the 2007 data compared to the 2012 data. has there been some breakthrough in thermometer technology that necessitates such changes? no, but there has certainly been 'improvements' in temperature computer modelling.

I understand your preference to believe that scientists like Hansen are impartial and would only make legitimate changes. unfortunately when you actually examine the large and numerous changes in the last 15 years it is difficult to accept that there is not at least a subconscious bias to get the results that he wants.

 

[IanC]

No amount of evidence is going to convince those that have made up their mind to ignore reality.

The fact that warming has stalled for going on 2 decades now in spite of steadily increasing atmospheric CO2 is reality and tells thinking people that CO2 is not the control knob for the climate. Warmers, as you note, dismiss all evidence to the contrary and continue to beleve that CO2 is causing climate change and no amount of observable evidence around you is going to alter your belief.

My, my, still repeating this old lie. So, lets see how it has been 'stalled'.

Warmest years on record, NOAA;

1. 2010
2. 2005
3. 1998
4. 2003
5. 2002
6. 2006
2009
2007
9. 2004
10. 2012

How soon until we see the next big jump, like we saw in 1998? And then the last decade will look cool.

I wont go over my oft repeated comment that you dont understand the difference between warm and warming because you seem unable or unwilling to grasp the concept.

I also wonder if the method of calculating global temps used in, say, 1998 would still give the same order of warmest years.

 

[Old Rocks]

There is a natural variation imposed on the warming. We have had several La Ninas since 1998, and a low Solar TSI. But it has not cooled. Even by Dr. Spencer's chart, the years since 1998 have been very warm.

UAH Global Temperature Update for January, 2013: +0.51 deg. C « Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

Note on his graph the differance before 1998, and after. When the next jump occurs, then reflects natural variantion, and levels a bit, you will once more be claiming the warming has leveled off. Even as the following decade establishes new records, you will be claiming that it is not warming.

 

[RollingThunder]

I missed that because it doesn't exist except in the myths, lies, and fantasies that rattle around in your little denier cult bizarro-world echo chamber. Your "abundance of undeniable proof" is a fantasy that you can't produce or show us.

In your koolaid stupor, you are evidently unable to differentiate between observable reality and myth. Multiple examples of data tampering have been posted here on this board, you have commented on them, and yet, believe they are a myth. You grow more detatched from reality every day. Stop drinking the koolaid.

With denier cultists, when you challenge them to show you their supposed "abundance of undeniable proof", it is always either "I already showed you that" or "I can show you that", but it is never "here it is right now". LOLOLOLOL....and we all know why....

 

[SSDD]

No amount of evidence is going to convince those that have made up their mind to ignore reality.

The fact that warming has stalled for going on 2 decades now in spite of steadily increasing atmospheric CO2 is reality and tells thinking people that CO2 is not the control knob for the climate. Warmers, as you note, dismiss all evidence to the contrary and continue to beleve that CO2 is causing climate change and no amount of observable evidence around you is going to alter your belief.

My, my, still repeating this old lie. So, lets see how it has been 'stalled'.

Warmest years on record, NOAA;

1. 2010
2. 2005
3. 1998
4. 2003
5. 2002
6. 2006
2009
2007
9. 2004
10. 2012

How soon until we see the next big jump, like we saw in 1998? And then the last decade will look cool.

You are aware that NOAA has been caught repeatedly altering temperature records aren't you? In fact , they have cooled 754months since 2008 with 98% of those months being prior to 1960 and they have warmed 793 months since 2008 with 72% of those months being after 1959. How can you possibly expect anyone to believe their claims are accurate?

 

[SSDD]

Firstly, because I have never seen any solid evidence that an records have been "tampered with".

Liar.

Secondly, because I have never seen any solid evidence that any "tampering" was not done for good scientific reasons.

Liar

Thirdly, because there are numerous independent sources for data - perhaps 40 or 50 - and they all show roughly similar results.

Liar

 

[SSDD]

With denier cultists, when you challenge them to show you their supposed "abundance of undeniable proof", it is always either "I already showed you that" or "I can show you that", but it is never "here it is right now". LOLOLOLOL....and we all know why....

Here...right now. Just for you, although they have been provided to you more than once. The koolaid must be having an adverse effect on your memory as well as your perception of reality.

If you want more, just ask. Examples abound.

 

[RollingThunder]

With denier cultists, when you challenge them to show you their supposed "abundance of undeniable proof", it is always either "I already showed you that" or "I can show you that", but it is never "here it is right now". LOLOLOLOL....and we all know why....

Here...right now. Just for you, although they have been provided to you more than once. The koolaid must be having an adverse effect on your memory as well as your perception of reality.

Oh, SSoooDDuuumb, my "perception of reality" is just fine, unlike yours, you delusional nitwit. Too bad about your retardation; must be a bummer for you. You would have to be retarded to imagine that this denier cult blog dreck somehow constitutes "undeniable proof" that the world's temperature records have all been tampered with by a huge conspiracy of scientists working for many different governments, scientific agencies, universities and other scientific institutions. Which is basically your insane claim.

The surface temperature records were collected with a variety of different instruments, at differently sited locations in the city or the country, at different altitudes, and with changing technology over the years. The fact that scientists have gone back and analyzed a lot of the old data and made some corrections to compensate for all of those differences in order to produce a more globally comparable data set is neither surprising nor evidence of some dastardly conspiracy by all of those thousands of scientists to distort the record for nefarious purposes. It is only conspiracy theory nutjobs like you who fall for that nonsense.

Of course this whole line of nonsense is one of the denier cults standard propaganda memes. Here's a good explanation.

‘The temperature record is unreliable’–But temperature trends are clear and widely corroborated

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If the AGWCult was active in the 1930's they would have said the Arctic would be ice free by 1940

 

[Old Rocks]

SSDD

Here...right now. Just for you, although they have been provided to you more than once. The koolaid must be having an adverse effect on your memory as well as your perception of reality
.........................................................................................................................................

Well dumb fuck, that first graph is the temperature for the lower 48 in the US, less than 2% of the worlds surface. Not only that, 2012 exceed 1934.

2012 Was the Hottest Year in U.S. History. And Yes ? It?s Climate Change | TIME.com

It’s official: 2012 was the hottest year on record in the continental U.S. — and it wasn’t even close. Last year beat the previous record holder — 1998, the summer of which I spent broiling to death as a New York intern — by a full 1ºF (0.56ºC). That’s a landslide, by meteorological standards. That’s Alabama beating Notre Dame to a bloody Irish pulp last night for the college football championship. It was really, really hot last year.

I could cite more statistics to prove the point, but I think this map from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration does it better than anything else:



Read more: 2012 Was the Hottest Year in U.S. History. And Yes ? It?s Climate Change | TIME.com

 

[skookerasbil]

Global warming stopped 16 years ago, Met Office report reveals: MoS got it right about warming... so who are the 'deniers' now? | Mail Online