2000 - Now dead

[Max Power]

Doesn't matter if they're from Iraq. What matters is that they're in Iraq.

Who are they? Al Queda? Sunni insurgents?

If they weren't there, they'd be here, and if they were here, we'd have 2000 dead civilians

Any evidence for this statement?


Now, let's look at this analytically. Al Queda attacked Madrid last year, right? So, apparently, "they" aren't exclusively "there."

IIRC, terrorist attacks worldwide are on the RISE, not including Iraq, which means that "they" are pretty much all over.

And if you're going to say "Yeah, but they aren't attacking HERE, and that's what matters," well, you could've made the same argument on 9-10-01.

 

[insein]

How are these men dying so that I don't have to deal with more bombings in my homeland?

How is this taking the fight to the enemy, if 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9-11 were from Saudi Arabia?

Lets see. Terrorists want to bomb America. They got through 3 major times and had uncounted efforts thwarted. Americans attack their base of operations so the terrorists goto defend their base instead of carrying out offensive plans. Sounds like a simple strategy to me. What part didnt you get?

Born Saudi Arabian and worked for Al queda in Afghanistan, Iraq and wherever they asked them to. Which included in America. Bin Laden was born in Saudi Arabia but hasnt been there for quite some time and is most despised by the Saudis. Since he is Saudi Arabian we should ignore that he was based in Afghanistan and Iraq and attack the Saudi's? Thats a pretty f'd up logic to me.

 

[manu1959]

Where are all the freedom fighters at the moment? I think to truly answer that question, we would have to invade every country and see who attacks us.

no need they have all traveled to iraq to kill americans....

 

[manu1959]

Who are they? Al Queda? Sunni insurgents?


Any evidence for this statement?


Now, let's look at this analytically. Al Queda attacked Madrid last year, right? So, apparently, "they" aren't exclusively "there."

IIRC, terrorist attacks worldwide are on the RISE, not including Iraq, which means that "they" are pretty much all over.

And if you're going to say "Yeah, but they aren't attacking HERE, and that's what matters," well, you could've made the same argument on 9-10-01.

does it matter who the are?

you are right they are everywhere and have been since before you were born

they did attack here prior to 9/11 or did you forget the first time they tried to blow up TWTC

 

[Max Power]

no need they have all traveled to iraq to kill americans....

Really?
All of them?
So who bombed Madrid last year? Ghosts?

 

[Max Power]

Lets see. Terrorists want to bomb America. They got through 3 major times and had uncounted efforts thwarted. Americans attack their base of operations so the terrorists goto defend their base instead of carrying out offensive plans. Sounds like a simple strategy to me. What part didnt you get?

Born Saudi Arabian and worked for Al queda in Afghanistan, Iraq and wherever they asked them to. Which included in America. Bin Laden was born in Saudi Arabia but hasnt been there for quite some time and is most despised by the Saudis. Since he is Saudi Arabian we should ignore that he was based in Afghanistan and Iraq and attack the Saudi's? Thats a pretty f'd up logic to me.

So now you're telling me that Bin Laden's base was Iraq?
Proof?

 

[manu1959]

Really?
All of them?
So who bombed Madrid last year? Ghosts?

basque sepratists funded by the cia

 

[Max Power]

does it matter who the are?

you are right they are everywhere and have been since before you were born

they did attack here prior to 9/11 or did you forget the first time they tried to blow up TWTC

Well, yes it does matter who they are, because you are referring to different people. The people who blew up the WTC in '93 aren't in Iraq right now, are they?

Are they related at all? Some of them are (the al Queda operatives). Most of the insurgency in Iraq isn't.

Don't use the pronoun, "they," if you aren't sure how to use it.

 

[Max Power]

basque sepratists funded by the cia

Umm...

 

[manu1959]

Umm...

prove that it was al queda.....

 

[insein]

And if you're going to say "Yeah, but they aren't attacking HERE, and that's what matters," well, you could've made the same argument on 9-10-01.

No we couldnt. 2/26/93 was a previous attack. 4/19/95 was another bombing, maybe not al queda but from a terrorist organization it definitely was. 8/7/98 The US embassy bombings in Africa where 213 people died including 12 US civilians.

I dont think the fingers in the ears and over the eyes approach is a good way to go for foreign policy.

 

[Max Power]

No we couldnt. 2/26/93 was a previous attack. 4/19/95 was another bombing, maybe not al queda but from a terrorist organization it definitely was. 8/7/98 The US embassy bombings in Africa where 213 people died including 12 US civilians.

I dont think the fingers in the ears and over the eyes approach is a good way to go for foreign policy.

So... how are we any safer now?

 

[manu1959]

Well, yes it does matter who they are, because you are referring to different people. The people who blew up the WTC in '93 aren't in Iraq right now, are they?

Are they related at all? Some of them are (the al Queda operatives). Most of the insurgency in Iraq isn't.

Don't use the pronoun, "they," if you aren't sure how to use it.

i was refering to people that wish to do harm to non radical muslims....they....get over yourself and don't be such a pompous ass.....where do you go to university?

 

[manu1959]

So... how are we any safer now?

so........how are we not any safer?

the answer is .... you have never been safe and you never will be safe ...

 

[Max Power]

so........how are we not any safer?

the answer is .... you have never been safe and you never will be safe ...

Such is the price of freedom.

 

[insein]

So now you're telling me that Bin Laden's base was Iraq?
Proof?

Oh im so glad you asked.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/092503F.html

* Abdul Rahman Yasin was the only member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb to remain at large in the Clinton years. He fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddam's hometown, that show that Iraq gave Mr. Yasin both a house and monthly salary.

* Bin Laden met at least eight times with officers of Iraq's Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam's son Qusay, and met with officials from Saddam's mukhabarat, its external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, who was speaking before the United Nations Security Council on February 6, 2003.

* Sudanese intelligence officials told me that their agents had observed meetings between Iraqi intelligence agents and bin Laden starting in 1994, when bin Laden lived in Khartoum.

* Bin Laden met the director of the Iraqi mukhabarat in 1996 in Khartoum, according to Mr. Powell.

* An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid-1990s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with Saddam's men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator, Mr. Powell told the United Nations.

* In 1999 the Guardian, a British newspaper, reported that Farouk Hijazi, a senior officer in Iraq's mukhabarat, had journeyed deep into the icy mountains near Kandahar, Afghanistan, in December 1998 to meet with al Qaeda men. Mr. Hijazi is "thought to have offered bin Laden asylum in Iraq," the Guardian reported.

* In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested near the Afghan border by Pakistani authorities, according to Jane's Foreign Report, a respected international newsletter. Jane's reported that Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, now al Qaeda's No. 2 man.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,779359,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132682,00.html

Al-Qaida running new terror camp, say Kurds

Michael Howard in Halabjah, Iraqi Kurdistan and Julian Borger in Washington
Friday August 23, 2002
The Guardian


A radical armed Islamist group with ties to Tehran and Baghdad has helped al-Qaida establish an international terrorist training camp in northern Iraq, Kurdish officials say.
Intelligence officers in the autonomous Kurdish region of Iraq told the Guardian that the Ansar al-Islam (supporters of Islam) group is harbouring up to 150 al-Qaida members in a string of villages it controls along the Iraq-Iran border.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005133

One striking bit of new evidence is that the name Ahmed Hikmat Shakir appears on three captured rosters of officers in Saddam Fedayeen, the elite paramilitary group run by Saddam's son Uday and entrusted with doing much of the regime's dirty work. Our government sources, who have seen translations of the documents, say Shakir is listed with the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel.

This matters because if Shakir was an officer in the Fedayeen, it would establish a direct link between Iraq and the al Qaeda operatives who planned 9/11. Shakir was present at the January 2000 al Qaeda "summit" in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, at which the 9/11 attacks were planned. The U.S. has never been sure whether he was there on behalf of the Iraqi regime or whether he was an Iraqi Islamicist who hooked up with al Qaeda on his own.

Hmm lets just take these for starters and see what you can do to refute them.

 

[insein]

So... how are we any safer now?

We have acknowledged that the enemy wants to kill us and we are no longer trying to arrest and prosecute a corpse. Instead we are trying to kill potential bombers.

 

[manu1959]

Such is the price of freedom.

not really .... they are killing people in every country all over the world .... even in some of the most opressive countries in the world terrorist kill civilians ....

 

[insein]

man that ended pretty quickly. I was hoping for some incoherent banter followed by a few off the wall one-liners. How disappointing.

 

[-Cp]

Just what I thought. 2000 or two million, it doesn't matter to you guys. The killing is rationalized because it's in the name of the ol' red, white and blue.

Dude, had your Oprahfied, wussified, pansyfied, CANDY-ASS been running the show back in before we became the greatest nation ever, we'd still be under British Rule...