Zionism's Dead End: Separation and Transfer

[georgephillip]

George, the Palestinian Arabs are lucky to even be in the region altogether:

Moshe Dayan Lost An Opportunity to Rid Israel of Arabs

Read the article, even the Arabs were surprised that Moshe Dayan let them stay.
Had the Arabs won the war in 1967, I have no doubt every single Jew would have either been killed or expelled.
Again, Moshe Dayan let the Palestinian Arabs stay after Israels stunning defeat in 1967, in which the Palestinians Arabs participated in, with the intention of driving every Jew out.

Arabs in Palestine reacted in self-defense against Zionist colonialism in 1967 just as they did in 1948. The fact that Arabs lost the fight doesn't mean the Jews have the legal or moral right to continue stealing land and water from other Semites; it simply means that those who own the government of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet endorse Jewish $upremacy in Pale$tine.

 

[toastman]

George, the Arabs in 1949 and 1967 were the aggressors and that is not up foe debate. We've been through this countless times.
You try to paint this picture that the Arabs with their army that was massive compared to the Israeli army were the victims, when they attacked on three fronts. Did the Israelis invade Syria, Jordan or Egypt in 1948 or 1967???

 

[Roudy]

George, the Palestinian Arabs are lucky to even be in the region altogether:

Moshe Dayan Lost An Opportunity to Rid Israel of Arabs

Read the article, even the Arabs were surprised that Moshe Dayan let them stay.
Had the Arabs won the war in 1967, I have no doubt every single Jew would have either been killed or expelled.
Again, Moshe Dayan let the Palestinian Arabs stay after Israels stunning defeat in 1967, in which the Palestinians Arabs participated in, with the intention of driving every Jew out.

Arabs in Palestine reacted in self-defense against Zionist colonialism in 1967 just as they did in 1948. The fact that Arabs lost the fight doesn't mean the Jews have the legal or moral right to continue stealing land and water from other Semites; it simply means that those who own the government of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet endorse Jewish $upremacy in Pale$tine.

Why was it okay for Arabs to expel, kill, steal from, ethnically cleanse, and torture almost a million Jews from the 1940's to the 1970's,, that had been living in their countries for centuries?

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries, often simply cited as Jewish exodus from Arab countries (Arabic: التهجير الجماعي لليهود من الدول العربية والإسلامية* at-tahjīr al-jamāʻī lil-yahūd min ad-duwal al-ʻArabīyah wal-Islāmīyah) was a mass departure, flight[1] and expulsion of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Muslim countries, from 1948 until the early 1970s.
Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. From the onset of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War until the early 1970s, 800,000–1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951 and amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.[2] 600,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries had reached Israel by 1972.[3][4][5] By the Yom Kippur War of 1973, most of the Jewish communities throughout the Arab World, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, were practically non-existent.

Many Jews were required to sell, abandon, or smuggle their property out of the countries they were fleeing.[10][11][12] By 2002 Jews from Arab countries and their descendants constituted almost half of Israel's population.[5] In the aftermath of the main exodus wave from Arab League states, an additional mass-migration of Iranian Jews peaked following the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when around 80% of Iranian Jews left the war-torn country for US and Israel. Through the 20th century, Turkish Jewry had mostly emigrated due to economic reasons and Zionist aspirations, but since the 1990s increasing terrorist attacks against Jews caused security concerns, with the result that many Jews left for Israel.

 

[georgephillip]

George, the Palestinian Arabs are lucky to even be in the region altogether:

Moshe Dayan Lost An Opportunity to Rid Israel of Arabs

Read the article, even the Arabs were surprised that Moshe Dayan let them stay.
Had the Arabs won the war in 1967, I have no doubt every single Jew would have either been killed or expelled.
Again, Moshe Dayan let the Palestinian Arabs stay after Israels stunning defeat in 1967, in which the Palestinians Arabs participated in, with the intention of driving every Jew out.

Arabs in Palestine reacted in self-defense against Zionist colonialism in 1967 just as they did in 1948. The fact that Arabs lost the fight doesn't mean the Jews have the legal or moral right to continue stealing land and water from other Semites; it simply means that those who own the government of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet endorse Jewish $upremacy in Pale$tine.

Why was it okay for Arabs to expel, kill, steal from, ethnically cleanse, and torture almost a million Jews from the 1940's to the 1970's,, that had been living in their countries for centuries?

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries, often simply cited as Jewish exodus from Arab countries (Arabic: التهجير الجماعي لليهود من الدول العربية والإسلامية* at-tahjīr al-jamāʻī lil-yahūd min ad-duwal al-ʻArabīyah wal-Islāmīyah) was a mass departure, flight[1] and expulsion of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Muslim countries, from 1948 until the early 1970s.
Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. From the onset of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War until the early 1970s, 800,000–1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951 and amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.[2] 600,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries had reached Israel by 1972.[3][4][5] By the Yom Kippur War of 1973, most of the Jewish communities throughout the Arab World, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, were practically non-existent.

Many Jews were required to sell, abandon, or smuggle their property out of the countries they were fleeing.[10][11][12] By 2002 Jews from Arab countries and their descendants constituted almost half of Israel's population.[5] In the aftermath of the main exodus wave from Arab League states, an additional mass-migration of Iranian Jews peaked following the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when around 80% of Iranian Jews left the war-torn country for US and Israel. Through the 20th century, Turkish Jewry had mostly emigrated due to economic reasons and Zionist aspirations, but since the 1990s increasing terrorist attacks against Jews caused security concerns, with the result that many Jews left for Israel.

Your link:

"Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

When western imperialists operating through the UN allowed 65 0,000 Jews to inflict their state upon 1.2 million Arabs in Palestine, life became very difficult for approximately equal numbers of Arab refugees in Palestine and Jews in the surrounding states.

The blame lies solely with Zionist colonizers from Europe who appealed to every authoritarian government from Russia's Tsar to Hitler to enhance their colony in Palestine.

 

[toastman]

Arabs in Palestine reacted in self-defense against Zionist colonialism in 1967 just as they did in 1948. The fact that Arabs lost the fight doesn't mean the Jews have the legal or moral right to continue stealing land and water from other Semites; it simply means that those who own the government of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet endorse Jewish $upremacy in Pale$tine.

Why was it okay for Arabs to expel, kill, steal from, ethnically cleanse, and torture almost a million Jews from the 1940's to the 1970's,, that had been living in their countries for centuries?

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries, often simply cited as Jewish exodus from Arab countries (Arabic: التهجير الجماعي لليهود من الدول العربية والإسلامية* at-tahjīr al-jamāʻī lil-yahūd min ad-duwal al-ʻArabīyah wal-Islāmīyah) was a mass departure, flight[1] and expulsion of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Muslim countries, from 1948 until the early 1970s.
Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. From the onset of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War until the early 1970s, 800,000–1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951 and amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.[2] 600,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries had reached Israel by 1972.[3][4][5] By the Yom Kippur War of 1973, most of the Jewish communities throughout the Arab World, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, were practically non-existent.

Many Jews were required to sell, abandon, or smuggle their property out of the countries they were fleeing.[10][11][12] By 2002 Jews from Arab countries and their descendants constituted almost half of Israel's population.[5] In the aftermath of the main exodus wave from Arab League states, an additional mass-migration of Iranian Jews peaked following the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when around 80% of Iranian Jews left the war-torn country for US and Israel. Through the 20th century, Turkish Jewry had mostly emigrated due to economic reasons and Zionist aspirations, but since the 1990s increasing terrorist attacks against Jews caused security concerns, with the result that many Jews left for Israel.

Your link:

"Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

When western imperialists operating through the UN allowed 65 0,000 Jews to inflict their state upon 1.2 million Arabs in Palestine, life became very difficult for approximately equal numbers of Arab refugees in Palestine and Jews in the surrounding states.

The blame lies solely with Zionist colonizers from Europe who appealed to every authoritarian government from Russia's Tsar to Hitler to enhance their colony in Palestine.

Notice how you completely avoided his comment regarding Jewish exodus

And once again George, for the millionth time 650 000 Jews DID NOT inflict their state on the Palestinian Arabs. That is just typical Arab propaganda. The Jews came to make their own state

 

[georgephillip]

George, the Arabs in 1949 and 1967 were the aggressors and that is not up foe debate. We've been through this countless times.
You try to paint this picture that the Arabs with their army that was massive compared to the Israeli army were the victims, when they attacked on three fronts. Did the Israelis invade Syria, Jordan or Egypt in 1948 or 1967???

Did the British decapitate Arab resistance in Palestine in 1936?
Did Jewish capital receive 90% of European investment dollars between 1917 and 1948?
Did Jewish fighting forces outnumber their Arab opponents in 1948?
How many heavy weapons did Jewish communists in Palestine purchase from Czechoslovakia in 1948?
Who struck first in 1967?
The only issue beyond debate is Zionist dependence upon the western imperial powers for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

 

[toastman]

George, the Arabs in 1949 and 1967 were the aggressors and that is not up foe debate. We've been through this countless times.
You try to paint this picture that the Arabs with their army that was massive compared to the Israeli army were the victims, when they attacked on three fronts. Did the Israelis invade Syria, Jordan or Egypt in 1948 or 1967???

Did the British decapitate Arab resistance in Palestine in 1936?
Did Jewish capital receive 90% of European investment dollars between 1917 and 1948?
Did Jewish fighting forces outnumber their Arab opponents in 1948?
How many heavy weapons did Jewish communists in Palestine purchase from Czechoslovakia in 1948?
Who struck first in 1967?
The only issue beyond debate is Zionist dependence upon the western imperial powers for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

As for the Jewish fighting forces in 1948, the Jews used their ENTIRE military strength at 117, 500. Although this outnumbered the total combat forces of the Arabs USED in the war, the Arabs had WAY more military personnel on standby. So in hindsight, the Arab military was larger than the Jewish military.

The Jews struck first in 1967. But they didn't start the war. The Arabs had massed their troops by Israels borders, whilst making threatening remarks to destroy the Jewish state and "push the Jews to the sea" . Thank God the IAF took initiative and struck first, because had they not have done so, I have no doubt Israel would have been destroyed or would have come close to becoming destroyed.

Were all wars fought by Israel against the Arab states due to Arab aggression ans desire to keep the entire Middle East 100% Muslim? Yup

Do the Arabs suck at warfare? Yup

Do the Arabs, including the Palestinians, and their supporters always try to play the victim and make Israel look like the aggressor? Definite YUP !!

 

[Jroc]

George, the Palestinian Arabs are lucky to even be in the region altogether:

Moshe Dayan Lost An Opportunity to Rid Israel of Arabs

Read the article, even the Arabs were surprised that Moshe Dayan let them stay.
Had the Arabs won the war in 1967, I have no doubt every single Jew would have either been killed or expelled.
Again, Moshe Dayan let the Palestinian Arabs stay after Israels stunning defeat in 1967, in which the Palestinians Arabs participated in, with the intention of driving every Jew out.

Arabs in Palestine reacted in self-defense against Zionist colonialism in 1967 just as they did in 1948. The fact that Arabs lost the fight doesn't mean the Jews have the legal or moral right to continue stealing land and water from other Semites; it simply means that those who own the government of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet endorse Jewish $upremacy in Pale$tine.

The Arabs lost the fight they started Georgie...if not for them there would be another Arab or so-called "Palestinian" state. as it stands now there won't be, nor should there be.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

And to think that President Clinton brokered a deal to give the arabs 95% of the West Bank and they refused it.

The bottom line is the arabs want ALL the land for themselves with no Jews at all in Israel, which they will rename.

It is not going to happen.

 

[Jroc]

And to think that President Clinton brokered a deal to give the arabs 95% of the West Bank and they refused it.

The bottom line is the arabs want ALL the land for themselves with no Jews at all in Israel, which they will rename.

It is not going to happen.

Yep...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&]"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/ame]

 

[Roudy]

Arabs in Palestine reacted in self-defense against Zionist colonialism in 1967 just as they did in 1948. The fact that Arabs lost the fight doesn't mean the Jews have the legal or moral right to continue stealing land and water from other Semites; it simply means that those who own the government of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet endorse Jewish $upremacy in Pale$tine.

Why was it okay for Arabs to expel, kill, steal from, ethnically cleanse, and torture almost a million Jews from the 1940's to the 1970's,, that had been living in their countries for centuries?

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries, often simply cited as Jewish exodus from Arab countries (Arabic: التهجير الجماعي لليهود من الدول العربية والإسلامية* at-tahjīr al-jamāʻī lil-yahūd min ad-duwal al-ʻArabīyah wal-Islāmīyah) was a mass departure, flight[1] and expulsion of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Muslim countries, from 1948 until the early 1970s.
Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. From the onset of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War until the early 1970s, 800,000–1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951 and amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.[2] 600,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries had reached Israel by 1972.[3][4][5] By the Yom Kippur War of 1973, most of the Jewish communities throughout the Arab World, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, were practically non-existent.

Many Jews were required to sell, abandon, or smuggle their property out of the countries they were fleeing.[10][11][12] By 2002 Jews from Arab countries and their descendants constituted almost half of Israel's population.[5] In the aftermath of the main exodus wave from Arab League states, an additional mass-migration of Iranian Jews peaked following the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when around 80% of Iranian Jews left the war-torn country for US and Israel. Through the 20th century, Turkish Jewry had mostly emigrated due to economic reasons and Zionist aspirations, but since the 1990s increasing terrorist attacks against Jews caused security concerns, with the result that many Jews left for Israel.

Your link:

"Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

When western imperialists operating through the UN allowed 65 0,000 Jews to inflict their state upon 1.2 million Arabs in Palestine, life became very difficult for approximately equal numbers of Arab refugees in Palestine and Jews in the surrounding states.

The blame lies solely with Zionist colonizers from Europe who appealed to every authoritarian government from Russia's Tsar to Hitler to enhance their colony in Palestine.

So what you're saying is okay for the Arab Muslims to behave like Nazis and commit ethnic cleansing on over a million Jews, that had lived in those countries for hundreds and in sme cases thousands of years, but...not okay for Jews to then settle into a land that their ancestors lived thousands of years ago. These are not "Ashkenazi" Jews, mind you. They are direct descendants of the Babylonian Jews which fled the destruction of the first temple in Jerusalem. Today they comprise over half of Israel's population.

I'd say the Jews are home after many years in exile, and Israel is here to stay. Live with it, or don't, you blabbering anti Semite, who the **** really cares.

 

[Roudy]

And to think that President Clinton brokered a deal to give the arabs 95% of the West Bank and they refused it.

The bottom line is the arabs want ALL the land for themselves with no Jews at all in Israel, which they will rename.

It is not going to happen.

Yep...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&]"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/ame]

Great clip. It's called Palestinian mentality. And people wonder why there can never be peace.

 

[toastman]

And to think that President Clinton brokered a deal to give the arabs 95% of the West Bank and they refused it.

The bottom line is the arabs want ALL the land for themselves with no Jews at all in Israel, which they will rename.

It is not going to happen.

Yep...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&]"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/ame]

Great clip. It's called Palestinian mentality. And people wonder why there can never be peace.

Do these idiots realize that their interviews are broadcasted all over the internet for EVERYONE to see??
I ber you one this guy realized that this video went on youtube, he started to claim that he didn't really mean what he said and all the blah blah and what he really want was he wanted to destroy Zionism but not the State of Israel blah blah.

King of like Ahmedinejad's comment on how Israel will be wiped off the map soon. Once this video came out, all the Palestinian/Terrorist supporters came out and said "No No @ he didn't really mean that ! He meant he wantd the Zionist government wiped off the map !"

hahaha !

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

I love the way that Palwatch (Palestinian Media Watch) and MEMRI (Middle East Research Media Institute) show the arabs for what they truly are. A bunch of lying inept cowards. What they say in English and what they say in Arabic are completely different.

 

[georgephillip]

Why was it okay for Arabs to expel, kill, steal from, ethnically cleanse, and torture almost a million Jews from the 1940's to the 1970's,, that had been living in their countries for centuries?

Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries, often simply cited as Jewish exodus from Arab countries (Arabic: التهجير الجماعي لليهود من الدول العربية والإسلامية* at-tahjīr al-jamāʻī lil-yahūd min ad-duwal al-ʻArabīyah wal-Islāmīyah) was a mass departure, flight[1] and expulsion of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Muslim countries, from 1948 until the early 1970s.
Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. From the onset of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War until the early 1970s, 800,000–1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951 and amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.[2] 600,000 Jews from Arab and Muslim countries had reached Israel by 1972.[3][4][5] By the Yom Kippur War of 1973, most of the Jewish communities throughout the Arab World, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan, were practically non-existent.

Many Jews were required to sell, abandon, or smuggle their property out of the countries they were fleeing.[10][11][12] By 2002 Jews from Arab countries and their descendants constituted almost half of Israel's population.[5] In the aftermath of the main exodus wave from Arab League states, an additional mass-migration of Iranian Jews peaked following the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when around 80% of Iranian Jews left the war-torn country for US and Israel. Through the 20th century, Turkish Jewry had mostly emigrated due to economic reasons and Zionist aspirations, but since the 1990s increasing terrorist attacks against Jews caused security concerns, with the result that many Jews left for Israel.

Your link:

"Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century and Jews began leaving some Arab countries in the 1930s and early 1940s, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

When western imperialists operating through the UN allowed 65 0,000 Jews to inflict their state upon 1.2 million Arabs in Palestine, life became very difficult for approximately equal numbers of Arab refugees in Palestine and Jews in the surrounding states.

The blame lies solely with Zionist colonizers from Europe who appealed to every authoritarian government from Russia's Tsar to Hitler to enhance their colony in Palestine.

Notice how you completely avoided his comment regarding Jewish exodus

And once again George, for the millionth time 650 000 Jews DID NOT inflict their state on the Palestinian Arabs. That is just typical Arab propaganda. The Jews came to make their own state

I didn't avoid the fact that the Jews' exodus from surrounding Arab states began after Zionists purged hundreds of thousands of Arabs from their homes, businesses, and bank accounts in Palestine.

You continually avoid the Zionist pioneers' program of colonization of Palestine.

"Herzl's movement held its first congress in Basel Switzerland in 1897. After that, waves of Zionist pioneers started migrating into Palestine.

"They came to colonize, but not along the lines of traditional colonialism where the big power conquers a land to create new markets for itself, acquire more resources and exploit the indigenous population as a cheap source of labor.

"The Zionists did not come to exploit the Arabs but to completely replace them.

"The goal was to create an exclusively Jewish state with a Jewish majority.

"In order to achieve this, the Zionists had to destroy the Palestinian economy, steal the land, drive the Arabs out of the labor market, and erase the very memory they'd even been there.

"This meant carrying out a war on a number of fronts, reflected in the three slogans of the pioneer Zionists: 'conquest of land,' 'conquest of labor,' and 'produce of the land.'"

The Hidden Roots of Zionism

By 1948 650,000 Jews out of two million Palestinians used a UN fig leaf to create their "exclusively Jewish state with a Jewish majority." You are among those who help erase the historical record of an Arab majority in Palestine when Israel came into being.

 

[toastman]

If that were true , then why didn't Israel expel all the Arabs after they lost the war??

 

[jehan]

Do you have trouble comprehending English? Perhaps you need to read my reply slower and a few times.

It wasn't your reply though was it? It was a tangentially related copy paste job that didn't refute my assertion, which I repeat, was that Ben Gurion said "I support compulsory transfer. I don't see in it anything immoral." You too it would seem see nothing immoral in what today would be called ethnic cleansing, since you advocated that it was a "mistake" not to do it after 1967. I would argue this damages the pro-Israel argument. But please, feel free to sabotage your own position.

Your Ben Gurion quote which I put in red above is not the full full quote.

Seriously, if you fail to understand this post below then it will be obvious (as if it isn't already) that you simply are twisting history.

________________

When Hari does touch on pre-1948 history, he mangles it. In a Nov. 13, 2006 piece entitled “Ethnic cleansing returns to Israel's agenda,” Hari provides an incomplete and partially invented quotation by Israel’s first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to claim that Israel has long had a policy of ethnic cleansing:

I support compulsory transfer. I do not see in it anything immoral ... The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.

The first part of the alleged quote is taken out of context. Efraim Karsh, in his critique of a book by Israeli historian Benny Morris, quoted from the record of the Jewish Agency Executive meeting on June 12, 1937 (“Falsifying the Record: Benny Morris, David Ben-Gurion and the ‘Transfer’ Idea,” Israel Affairs, V4, No. 2, Winter 1997, p52-53). It reads as follows:

I saw in the Peel Plan [proposed by England] two positive things: the ideas of state and compulsory transfer. I support compulsory transfer. I don’t see in it anything immoral, but compulsory transfer can only be effected by England and not by the Jews... Not only is it inconceivable for us to carry it out, but it is also inconceivable for us to propose it.

Morris, who is mentioned in Hari’s column, denounces Hari’s writing as a misrepresentation of what he wrote. In a letter published in the Independent on Nov. 21, 2006, Morris writes that Hari “misrepresents my views, while peddling numerous historical errors.” Morris then points out that the second half of the alleged quote — that “The Arabs will have to go ... such as a war” — “is an invention, pure and simple, either by Hari or by whomever he is quoting (Ilan Pappe?)”

My first post on this thread, and my only point, was in response to a comment you made that struck me as self-injurious in the extreme, as you were noting that "in hindsight" it was a mistake not to transfer the Palestinians. I linked this to Ben Gurion's opinion that compulsory transfer was not immoral. It's pretty clear, to anyone reading this without a skewed perspective, that you share this opinion on the lack of immorality involved in what today would be ethnic cleansing. In your own words, you said, "That was a massive mistake in hindsight" with "that" referring to "letting" the Palestinians stay. There it is, a simple statement of support for ethnic cleansing. So what are we arguing about again?

Your point about "the full quote" has been responded to above, and it would have been great if you had cared to write your response instead of regurgitating your block of copy-paste text which goes on about a Johann Hari article. But thank you for further confirming the pitfalls of the copy paste method, which is often backed up by a frankly juvenile use of larger font size and the use of color as a substitute for actual debate.

In any case, here was my response to the full quote point, a couple of posts back:


Efraim Karsh...doesn't deny Ben-Gurion's words, in fact he cites them and merely continues the quote, with his thoughts about who should propose and carry out the transfer - technicalities which do not alter or efface what came before them, the part where he categorically states "I support compulsory transfer. I don't see in it anything immoral". This is an assertion that cannot be taken out of context; as Morris says he "laid his cards baldly on the table."

For example, consider the implications of this:

I support the compulsory transfer of the Sámi. I don’t see in it anything immoral, but compulsory transfer can only be effected by Norway and not by the Swedish people... Not only is it inconceivable for us to carry it out, but it is also inconceivable for us to propose it.

So I believe it is not immoral to ethnically cleanse the Sámi but I'm quibbling about technicalities - who should propose it and who should carry it out. That is, who should do the dirty work, since I don't want to be implicated. I want it done for me. By Norway.

I sincerely hope the problems with this position are clear. If not, then please consider the Ben Gurion comparison a compliment and continue to believe that you've refuted my point by happily copy-pasting somebody else's refutation of somebody else's article. This is after all a tried and tested way out of anything that might challenge your worldview.

 

[georgephillip]

George, the Palestinian Arabs are lucky to even be in the region altogether:

Moshe Dayan Lost An Opportunity to Rid Israel of Arabs

Read the article, even the Arabs were surprised that Moshe Dayan let them stay.
Had the Arabs won the war in 1967, I have no doubt every single Jew would have either been killed or expelled.
Again, Moshe Dayan let the Palestinian Arabs stay after Israels stunning defeat in 1967, in which the Palestinians Arabs participated in, with the intention of driving every Jew out.

Arabs in Palestine reacted in self-defense against Zionist colonialism in 1967 just as they did in 1948. The fact that Arabs lost the fight doesn't mean the Jews have the legal or moral right to continue stealing land and water from other Semites; it simply means that those who own the government of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet endorse Jewish $upremacy in Pale$tine.

The Arabs lost the fight they started Georgie...if not for them there would be another Arab or so-called "Palestinian" state. as it stands now there won't be, nor should there be.

Zionists working at the behest of western imperialism started this fight in the last quarter of the 19th century:

"Approximately 1.5 million Palestinian civilians have died since 1948,including the victims of the ethnic cleansing campaigns in the west in 1948-50 and in the east since 1967. Civilian deaths have escalated dramatically in recent years since the zionists developed their obsession with the Palestinian birth-rate,and children are often the target.

"There is only a small fine for killing a Palestinian in cold blood.

"It's based on a weapons charge,not murder.

"To understand the genocidal character of this vile regime,one need only glance at the responses from zionists; at least half advocate or at least imply approval of the killing of non-jews. Adocating genocide is by the way a reportable offence on Y/A. Aproximately 2000 civilian Palestinians are killed each year.

"If you are jewish and you shoot an 8-year-old Palestinian girl in cold blood,you will have your weapons license revoked for three months and pay a fine equivalent to 50-100 dollars U.S. It's considered by the 'government'to be more or less the same thing as shooting squirrals within city limits with a .22. would be in America.

"Zionists love to murder Palestinian children and they do it all the time. The military handles the mass-murders. We are not talking about suicide bombers or militants; those figures fall into another category. I am referring to wanton killing of civilians.
Source(s):
Pappe,Itan. "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" (Oxford,2003).
Amnesty Internation Annual Report (years 2000-2007).
Hass,Amira. "Drinking the Waters at Gaza" (1996)."

How many Palestinians have been killed since the creation of Israel? - Yahoo! Answers

 

[HistoryBefore67]

The number of "Palestinians" killed since 1920 in the conflict with the Jews/Israel is less than the number of Syrians killed by their own people in the last 3 years.

 

[toastman]

Arabs in Palestine reacted in self-defense against Zionist colonialism in 1967 just as they did in 1948. The fact that Arabs lost the fight doesn't mean the Jews have the legal or moral right to continue stealing land and water from other Semites; it simply means that those who own the government of the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet endorse Jewish $upremacy in Pale$tine.

The Arabs lost the fight they started Georgie...if not for them there would be another Arab or so-called "Palestinian" state. as it stands now there won't be, nor should there be.

Zionists working at the behest of western imperialism started this fight in the last quarter of the 19th century:

"Approximately 1.5 million Palestinian civilians have died since 1948,including the victims of the ethnic cleansing campaigns in the west in 1948-50 and in the east since 1967. Civilian deaths have escalated dramatically in recent years since the zionists developed their obsession with the Palestinian birth-rate,and children are often the target.

"There is only a small fine for killing a Palestinian in cold blood.

"It's based on a weapons charge,not murder.

"To understand the genocidal character of this vile regime,one need only glance at the responses from zionists; at least half advocate or at least imply approval of the killing of non-jews. Adocating genocide is by the way a reportable offence on Y/A. Aproximately 2000 civilian Palestinians are killed each year.

"If you are jewish and you shoot an 8-year-old Palestinian girl in cold blood,you will have your weapons license revoked for three months and pay a fine equivalent to 50-100 dollars U.S. It's considered by the 'government'to be more or less the same thing as shooting squirrals within city limits with a .22. would be in America.

"Zionists love to murder Palestinian children and they do it all the time. The military handles the mass-murders. We are not talking about suicide bombers or militants; those figures fall into another category. I am referring to wanton killing of civilians.
Source(s):
Pappe,Itan. "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" (Oxford,2003).
Amnesty Internation Annual Report (years 2000-2007).
Hass,Amira. "Drinking the Waters at Gaza" (1996)."

How many Palestinians have been killed since the creation of Israel? - Yahoo! Answers

How many of those 1.5 million Palestinians were killed by Israel ?