You're ridiculous if you think we gave into Kim and got nothing out of it.

[Muhammed]

The Democrat's way to deal with North Korea was to enslave 1.5 million American citizens and send them to Korea against their will to be used as cannon fodder. Or simply force marched into the Korean wilderness where they were abandoned to starve or freeze to death in the brutal winter. Over 57,000 American died, and an untold number were permanently disabled. There are still over 7000 MIA in Korea.

Fuck the jackass Democratic party of slavery. Anyone who votes Democrat is either extremely ignorant and/or lacking in any ethics or morals whatsoever. They're just plain evil.

 

[KissMy]

Kim got Trump to agree & publicly state "it is important to abide by the principle of step-by-step and simultaneous action in achieving peace, stability and denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.". That goes directly against what Trump administration has said so far.

Last month, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told the House Foreign Affairs Committee that "the model that we have laid forth is a rapid denuclearization, total and complete, that won't be extended over time." The administration's argument is that the incremental approach used by past administrations has allowed North Korea to extract rewards and incentives from the U.S., only to ultimately renege and refuse to give up its nukes.

Trump gave Kim what he always wanted. Trump rewarded Korea's nuclear achievements by giving Kim Formal World status as "Korea's Head of State" Kim is using that nuclear power to negotiate with the US & World for Korea!

Trump offered North Korea unspecified security guarantees, Trump also "guarantees that it does not seek to overthrow the current regime in North Korea." So now the USA has to protect North korea & it's Supreme Leader Kim.

He also suggested that the United Nations should consider easing sanctions on Pyongyang to reward it for progress towards giving up its nuclear program. "Sanctions are not an end in themselves," he said, "the Security Council, through its actions, should support the current diplomatic negotiations."

China's Shi Yinhong said Trump's pledge to halt military maneuvers is, from China's perspective, almost "too good to be true." Shi predicts that such a move could face stiff domestic opposition. If U.S. troops in South Korea were to really halt military exercises, he says, it could cause allies to lose confidence in Washington and undermine the entire U.S. military presence in Asia. Trump won't get China's military off those islands in South China Sea or from controlling & taking back Hong Kong.

 

[forkup]

First of all nothing concrete has happened on our side either. All of this was just talked about a couple of days ago. Let me ask you something. How hard do you think it would be to reinstate sanctions and continue shows of force on the Korean Peninsula in the event that Kim Jong Un is bullshitting us? Easy, very easy in fact; that's the answer. It's not like we gave him a mountain of money we can't get back. The real truth is in the last couple weeks North Korea has shown more willingness to cooperate than at any other point in modern history. If you're a leftie that dislikes war you should be happy about that. Hell, the left was worried he was going to go to war with North Korea at first. Now they are mad about unprecedented peace talks. You people are pathetic. I grew up believing the left wing is populated by honest intellectuals. Adulthood and the real world have a way of shattering ridiculous childhood perceptions.

Well let's be honest. Trump just legitimized one of the worst dictatorships in the world. I don't think that's necessarily the worst thing in the world after all maybe this will make N-Korea a bit better, but it does bring some moral implications. On the other hand making this a "oh the left is dishonest" thing is pretty hypocritical. You referred to the Iran deal. That deal, had a complete nuclear disarmament albeit limited in time and a way to verify that disarmament. Plus the full backing of the international community. Yet Trump walked away from that deal because it wasn't good enough. N-Korea has offered far less and you guys tout it as something that's worthy of a Nobel. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Mac1958]

First of all nothing concrete has happened on our side either. All of this was just talked about a couple of days ago.

This really has been something to watch.

I knew the hardcore Left would minimize anything good and inflate anything bad, but I must admit: I was surprised to see so many gleeful proclamations of abject defeat after one very short meeting. I don't know who they think they're fooling with this stuff. Maybe just themselves. And each other.

I really thought the Left was better than this. Another example of my being lousy at predicting political stuff.
.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don't understand this at all... Why are the progressives so puckered up about giving Kim Formal World status as "Korea's Head of State"... So he went to Camp with the Big Boys in Singapore and now he gets a Merit Badge... BFD... Please list the heads of State that has or will invite Kim to Brunch... He doesn't have didley squat... You suppose Kim will be invited to see The Supreme Leader of Iran... No not likely... He might have some sandal's to clean and boots to polish in China though... That is a possibility... You guys need to take a chill pill and let things happen...

 

[Olde Europe]

What you fail to understand is that there is no there there.

Where was no ‘agreement,’ no ‘deal’ – it was political theatre only, Trump’s desperate, pathetic attempt at some sort of ‘win.’

Quite. Or maybe he even understands there is no there there, yet, and has resolved to hope for the best to come, numerous prior deals that fell apart notwithstanding.

What angers me most are the brazen and overt double standards. The painstakingly negotiated JCPOA, working like a charm until the Trumpy resolved to violate it, is a "bad deal". The Trumpy's nothingburger is the Second Coming.

Those who point out the shortcomings are "ridiculous". Those who point out that keeping up a sanctions regime, hard to set up and keep working in the best of times, once "peace talks" are underway, is pretty close to impossible, are being decried as Trump haters. Those who hint that, once military exercises are publicly announced to stop, restarting them is going to make the U.S. appear to be in violation of the loudly proclaimed "deal" (that isn't), and thus weakens the U.S. position, are being called militarists. (That's while I'd suggest having these exercises, if at all, as far away from NK shores as possible so as to avoid provocations.)

IAEA inspectors know the whereabouts of every ounce of uranium in Iran's possession. They have not the first idea what the North Koreans have, or where. All we know is that North Korean centrifuges are spinning, churning out more bomb fuel. The former is a bad deal, the latter is a splendid achievement. Pointing out the disparity results in blank stares or denial (or worse).

One might resolve to find that evidence for laughably delusional, compartmentalized brains, and dismiss it all, were it not for the fact that the malaise apparently is festering in the upper echelons of the U.S. government.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Isn't it just amazing and jaw-dropping that the same folks who told us that the obscene and disgraceful Iran nuclear deal was a good deal are now claiming that we are getting ripped off in the North Korean deal, when that deal has not even been fully hammered out yet?

If we get genuine, verifiable denuclearization by North Korea in exchange for generous economic arrangements, as appears right now to be the thrust of the deal, that will be the deal of the century.

 

[Mac1958]

Isn't it just amazing and jaw-dropping that the same folks who told us that the obscene and disgraceful Iran nuclear deal was a good deal are now claiming that we are getting ripped off in the North Korean deal, when that deal has not even been fully hammered out yet?

Yes.

Such is partisan politics. Pretty transparent.
.

 

[sparky]

If we get genuine, verifiable denuclearization by North Korea in exchange for generous economic arrangements, as appears right now to be the thrust of the deal, that will be the deal of the century.

I've asked and asked just 'what' the deal is Trump has make with NK

The answer is, not much change at all from the original 2007 Denuke agreement Kim signed>>>

North Korea - Denuclearization

So prez do-nothing establishes himself as no more than adolesent hubris , while spitting at all those who out him....

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
So funny to watch the Fake News, especially NBC and CNN. They are fighting hard to downplay the deal with North Korea. 500 days ago they would have “begged” for this deal-looked like war would break out. Our Country’s biggest enemy is the Fake News so easily promulgated by fools!

6:30 AM - 13 Jun 2018

~S~

 

[SweetTea]

Not sure why this is so difficult for the left to understand. Trump said right after the meeting that it is a good start but Kim has to put his words into action. If Kim doesn't, there will be repercussions. We gave up nothing can't be taken back. No one in their right mind should have thought that Trump could met with Kim for 2 hours and have a specific deal with all the details hammered out. He got the agreement in principle and now they will work out the details. The difference between Trump and some others is that Trump will use military force and Kim knows it. The other glaring difference is that Trump approached this from an economic standpoint by threatening tariffs on China, which would destroy their economy, and offering Kim to ability for his country to flourish. There is both economic(via sanctions and MOST importantly, China) and real military pressures on Kim this time. We shall see what happens.

 

[sparky]

Not sure why this is so difficult for the left to understand. Trump said right after the meeting that it is a good start but Kim has to put his words into action. If Kim doesn't, there will be repercussions. We gave up nothing can't be taken back. No one in their right mind should have thought that Trump could met with Kim for 2 hours and have a specific deal with all the details hammered out. He got the agreement in principle and now they will work out the details. The difference between Trump and some others is that Trump will use military force and Kim knows it. The other glaring difference is that Trump approached this from an economic standpoint by threatening tariffs on China, which would destroy their economy, and offering Kim to ability for his country to flourish. There is both economic(via sanctions and MOST importantly, China) and real military pressures on Kim this time. We shall see what happens.

Not sure why the right can't understand this is all>>>

and can't 'specifically' state excatly what the 'deal' is

~S~

 

[sparky]

Statement by President Bush on Six Party Talks

Washington, DC
February 13, 2007

North Korea - Denuclearization Action Plan

Released by the White House
Office of the Press Secretary

PRESIDENT BUSH: I am pleased with the agreements reached today at the Six Party Talks in Beijing. These talks represent the best opportunity to use diplomacy to address North Korea's nuclear programs. They reflect the common commitment of the participants to a Korean Peninsula that is free of nuclear weapons.

In September 2005, our nations agreed on a Joint Statement that charted the way forward toward achieving a nuclear weapons free peninsula. Today's announcement represents the first step toward implementing that agreement.

Under the agreements reached today, North Korea has committed to take several specific actions within the next 60 days. Among other things, North Korea has agreed to shut down and seal all operations at the primary nuclear facilities it has used to produce weapons-grade plutonium and has agreed to allow international inspectors to verify and monitor this process. In addition to those immediate actions, North Korea has also committed to disclose all its nuclear programs and disable its existing nuclear facilities -- as an initial step toward abandoning all of those programs and facilities under international supervision.

The other parties have agreed to cooperate in economic, humanitarian, and energy assistance to North Korea. Such assistance will be provided as the North carries out its commitments to disable its nuclear facilities.

I commend Secretary Rice, Ambassador Hill, and our negotiating team in Beijing for their hard work.

 

[sparky]

I'll ask again how sanctions work against an insane dictator.....

~S~

 

[KissMy]

Trump was on Fox yesterday saying we are going to remove all US troops from South Korea!!!

 

[sparky]

Trump was on Fox yesterday saying we are going to remove all US troops from South Korea!!!

And he's convinced folks that letting our long standing gaurd down against Mr Insanity is actually going to end up all rainbows and unicorns.....

Our country's biggest enemy is the idiot who name calls & threatens 'fire & fury' against a mentally unstable dictator, then turns around & provides obsequious propaganda for that same dictator.

~S~

 

[Norman]

Trump was on Fox yesterday saying we are going to remove all US troops from South Korea!!!

And he's convinced folks that letting our long standing gaurd down against Mr Insanity is actually going to end up all rainbows and unicorns.....

Our country's biggest enemy is the idiot who name calls & threatens 'fire & fury' against a mentally unstable dictator, then turns around & provides obsequious propaganda for that same dictator.

~S~

We will save a lot.

There will be peace.

There wont be nukes.

HERO!

 

[Harpy Eagle]

What did you get out of it that you didn't have before?

What did North Korea get that couldn't be immediately reversed if they don't cooperate?

Legitimacy on the world stage.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Seawytch]

Can the OP explain why this is such a great deal, but we had to leave the Iran deal?

But the Singapore statement, which has been praised by Trump supporters and conservative pundits on cable television, also pales dramatically in comparison to the interim deal that Iran, the U.S. and other world powers signed in 2013.

That four-page document, called the Joint Plan of Action and signed in Geneva on November 24, 2013, ultimately paved the way for the JCPOA, which arms control experts generally regarded as an imperfect but effective way of preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but Trump repeatedly has called the “worst deal” ever.

Republicans hostile to Barack Obama blasted the Iran deal as appeasing a brutal regime. In contrast, pundits on Fox News lauded Trump for his diplomatic prowess in meeting with North Korea’s leader.

The Art of the Deal? Obama’s With Iran Was Much Better Than Trump’s With North Korea

 

[NoNukes]

Kim gave in because of the sanctions. Thank you Obama, well done.

The sanctions probably played a role. I think it's more about China than anything, though.

I believe he finally had to do something for his country because of the sanctions.

 

[NightFox]

None of that happened while Kim Jong Un is in power. He's not his father, and he's shown unprecedented willingness to cooperate with the west. He's talking about visiting Washington. I think it's for real this time, and I wonder how long people like you will foam at the mouth before finally realizing you are wrong.

That's what happens when the you're the supreme leader of the DPRK and the Chinese decide that NK has outlived its usefulness as a regional counterbalance. The smack upside the head from Beijing is the source of that "unprecedented willingness", the fact that Moon Jae-in and Trump recognized that opportunity is a credit to both of 'em, let's just hope the opportunity isn't squandered.

Yes, China is likely a large part of why Kim is cooperating. I mentioned that in another thread. That makes me even more sure it's serious this time.

IMHO China is probably the only "part", the North Koreans are nearly entirely economically dependent on the Chinese, if a lasting peace is achieved on a denuclearized Korean Peninsula then the need for a U.S. Military presence in South Korea will evaporate and open the way for a Chinese-South Korean economic alignment, thus vastly diminishing U.S. influence in Asia.

Make no mistake, if this all works out, China stands to benefit the most from it.

AND russia

That's true but IMHO Russia's stake is a far lesser one than China's since the Russian interest is purely trade based. On the other hand China looks down the road and sees a unified Korean Peninsula firmly within it's sphere of both economic and political influence and doing it without provoking a confrontation with the United States or its allies.