Your explanations?

[amrchaos]

An even bigger miracle would have been if the drunk driver hadn't even hit her at all

Then you've experienced some miracle because a drunk driver didn't hit you.

If you really want to compare the difference---Escaping a dangerous and highly fatal situation without harm seems more like a miracle than barely surviving one.

Doesn't really change the fact that it's still a miracle.

Miracles happen all the time

We can argue about if this was a miracle or not all day.

However, one thing that is sure--miracles, if they happen, are inconsistent. No one should rely on them.

 

[Derideo_Te]

There is a lot of evidence for the Christian deity as well.

Except that you can't provide a shred of credible evidence.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You don't get to claim that evolution is superior to creationism and list the criteria we must meet unless/until you can show how evolution meets the same requirements

Evolution meets all of those requirements whereas neither IDiocy nor creation "science" can even come close.

 

[amrchaos]

You know something

If the young earthers and creationists really want to 'discuss the controversy' all they have to do is re-introduce Philosophy courses(with a focus on critical thinking) back into the classrooms.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You know something

If the young earthers and creationists really want to 'discuss the controversy' all they have to do is re-introduce Philosophy courses(with a focus on critical thinking) back into the classrooms.

But that would mean raising taxes to hire more unionized teachers!

 

[Delta4Embassy]

She wanted to pray out loud.

Was her prayer answered?

Teen Trapped Inside Wrecked Car Asks To Pray Out Loud. Suddenly This Happens...

So God makes cars crash into each other to come save the day? There's a psychological condition about thats imilar to Munchausen by Proxy where people cause accidents or problems then play hero to get hero's attention.

 

[amrchaos]

Maybe not

All you need do is expand the "Social Studies Curriculum" and probably trade one of the history teachers out for a philosophy teacher.

Then again, History is probably the closest subject matter to philosophy, so a History teacher could teach basic philosophy themselves.

Probably don't need to hire one new teacher--just a matter of reorganizing and finding which teacher is best qualified.

 

[BluePhantom]

Well I don't know if this is a miracle or not. It seems to me that another truck showed up with more powerful tools so they probably would have gotten her out anyhow. It is pretty amazing that this girl asks to pray out loud and suddenly a priest shows up to pray with her and provide her with comfort. Is that a miracle? At the very least it's a hell of a coincidence. I don't think I would call it a miracle so much as simply God doing what God does and putting the right people we need at the right place when we need them.

 

[Hollie]

Well I don't know if this is a miracle or not. It seems to me that another truck showed up with more powerful tools so they probably would have gotten her out anyhow. It is pretty amazing that this girl asks to pray out loud and suddenly a priest shows up to pray with her and provide her with comfort. Is that a miracle? At the very least it's a hell of a coincidence. I don't think I would call it a miracle so much as simply God doing what God does and putting the right people we need at the right place when we need them.

Notwithstanding all those other folks who died, were the gawds just too busy with their administrative duties to save those other folks they let die?

List of motor vehicle deaths in U.S. by year - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[BluePhantom]

Well I don't know if this is a miracle or not. It seems to me that another truck showed up with more powerful tools so they probably would have gotten her out anyhow. It is pretty amazing that this girl asks to pray out loud and suddenly a priest shows up to pray with her and provide her with comfort. Is that a miracle? At the very least it's a hell of a coincidence. I don't think I would call it a miracle so much as simply God doing what God does and putting the right people we need at the right place when we need them.

Notwithstanding all those other folks who died, were the gawds just too busy with their administrative duties to save those other folks they let die?

List of motor vehicle deaths in U.S. by year - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Bad things happen, Hollie. I didn't say God saved this girl from death. I said that she asked for someone to pray with and it was given to her either by an amazing coincidence or some grand design that put that priest at the exact place and time she needed him. We make choices in life and God lets what we have chosen play out. If we choose to drive drunk or text while driving or put on makeup while driving, etc we are the ones putting ourselves and others in harm's way, not God.

 

[Avatar4321]

There is a lot of evidence for the Christian deity as well.

Except that you can't provide a shred of credible evidence.

Simply because you don't find the evidence credible does not make it non existent.

So you really didn't counter his point.

Personally I fail to see how you can get more credible than a personal witness from the Holy Spirit. If you want to know if God exists what better evidence is there than personal communication from God

 

[Derideo_Te]

There is a lot of evidence for the Christian deity as well.

Except that you can't provide a shred of credible evidence.

Simply because you don't find the evidence credible does not make it non existent.

So you really didn't counter his point.

Personally I fail to see how you can get more credible than a personal witness from the Holy Spirit. If you want to know if God exists what better evidence is there than personal communication from God

There is no evidence ergo it is not credible.

 

[Hollie]

There is a lot of evidence for the Christian deity as well.

Except that you can't provide a shred of credible evidence.

Simply because you don't find the evidence credible does not make it non existent.

So you really didn't counter his point.

Personally I fail to see how you can get more credible than a personal witness from the Holy Spirit. If you want to know if God exists what better evidence is there than personal communication from God

Your claimed personal communication is not evidence that can be shared in any meaningful way. And, what a coincidence that your alleged communication with the gawds is from the gawds that are customary to your familial/geographic location. A few thousand years ago, personal communication with the gawds would be with entirely different gawds.

Tell me, what is the difference between your assertion of communications with supernatural entities and a certifiably insane person's claim that he is Napoleon? Both are equally demonstrable and reasonable claims, (according to your standards), and why should I believe your claims of “communicatios with the gawds” is real, but the individual with cognitive impairment (claiming to be Napoleon) is issuing a false claim?

 

[BluePhantom]

There is no evidence ergo it is not credible.

Well it's a highly personal thing that is best interpreted by the individual. There are things I have experienced in my life that I simply cannot explain. Let me relate one. This may seem less miraculous reading it, but I can assure you that the experience was far different. I was driving back to Phoenix from Las Vegas one day and I was travelling on a two-lane country highway. I was driving this big Pontiac Montana road boat and going about 80-85 mph. I started to approach an intersection and there were three other cars at it. Two of those cars were stopped on either side waiting to enter the highway (blue and green cars below). The third car was turning left off the highway onto the side road (red car). The car entering the highway on my side (blue car) didn't see me coming and pulled out into the highway right the fuck in front of me. So have a look at this pic. This is what the situation was:

So I am barreling from the right side of the pic and this was close. There was no time for me to move my foot from the gas to the brake. I would have smashed into the blue car before my foot got there. I shouted out "JESUS!" Now I will be honest. I don't know if I shouted that as in "Lord, please help me" or as in "Ohhhhh FUCK!" But my hands jerked the wheel to the left shooting me into the oncoming lane so hard that I damn near rolled it. Then immediately jerked the wheel back to the right and somehow managed to thread the needle between the blue and red cars....in my road boat van at about 80-85 mph. i did not plan this. I didn't have time to analyze the situation and make a determination about where to steer the car. My hands literally started whipping the wheel without me even thinking about it. Take a second and look at how close those two cars are. That is a very accurate depiction of the room I had. Then imagine a Pontiac Montana pulling off that maneuver that fast. The only reason I didn't shit myself is because I didn't have time.

An amazing testament to lightning reflexes and how precise the brain can be in pressure situations? Maybe....maybe.

Blind ass, stupid, fucking luck? Maybe...maybe.

God hearing me invoke the name of the Lord, grabbing my hands and directing them to pull off a maneuver that I couldn't repeat in 10,000 more tries? Pretty fantastic explanation, I admit...but had you experienced it, you wouldn't rule it out. Well maybe you would. I can't...I will tell you that much. The entire sequence of events took place in no more than two seconds, probably less. And I can assure you of two things. Although I never met any of those drivers, it was so damned close that I am 100% certain all of them tell that story to this day. And second, if there were any atheists behind the wheel of those cars before that incident, there sure as hell weren't any afterwards.

Now is that proof of the existence of God? Absolutely not! At least not for anyone but me and perhaps the drivers of the other cars. But, I cannot find any other way to explain it that satisfies the experience. Just re-playing it through my mind gives me chills and terrifies me to this day.

 

[BluePhantom]

There is no evidence ergo it is not credible.

I will give you another one. This happened when I was a kid and I was spending the summer with my brother in Seattle. He enjoyed scuba diving and he had planned a dive in an area that was like a seaweed forest. During the summer the seaweed would grow into thick forests and there was good viewing at a lot of fish that would come to feed, blah, blah. So the morning of the dive came and he was very jittery because it was not uncommon for divers to get tangled in the seaweed and drown. So he leaves and about 10 minutes later he comes back and says he has an overwhelming feeling of dread and that something was telling him not to go on that dive. So he didn't go. As he unloaded his gear he looked in the sheath that held his diving knife and it was empty. I had taken out out about a week before to cut something and never put it back. After he beat me like a drum, he told me that he had a dream the previous night that he had gotten tangled int he seaweed, reached for his knife to cut himself free, and his knife wasn't there and he drowned.

Sheer coincidence? Maybe

Curiously freaky? Definately

God telling my brother he had better not dive that day? You know....take it how you will. He certainly tells that story and is convinced God was warning him. Who knows?

 

[Derideo_Te]

There is no evidence ergo it is not credible.

Well it's a highly personal thing that is best interpreted by the individual. There are things I have experienced in my life that I simply cannot explain. Let me relate one. This may seem less miraculous reading it, but I can assure you that the experience was far different. I was driving back to Phoenix from Las Vegas one day and I was travelling on a two-lane country highway. I was driving this big Pontiac Montana road boat and going about 80-85 mph. I started to approach an intersection and there were three other cars at it. Two of those cars were stopped on either side waiting to enter the highway (blue and green cars below). The third car was turning left off the highway onto the side road (red car). The car entering the highway on my side (blue car) didn't see me coming and pulled out into the highway right the fuck in front of me. So have a look at this pic. This is what the situation was:

So I am barreling from the right side of the pic and this was close. There was no time for me to move my foot from the gas to the brake. I would have smashed into the blue car before my foot got there. I shouted out "JESUS!" Now I will be honest. I don't know if I shouted that as in "Lord, please help me" or as in "Ohhhhh FUCK!" But my hands jerked the wheel to the left shooting me into the oncoming lane so hard that I damn near rolled it. Then immediately jerked the wheel back to the right and somehow managed to thread the needle between the blue and red cars....in my road boat van at about 80-85 mph. i did not plan this. I didn't have time to analyze the situation and make a determination about where to steer the car. My hands literally started whipping the wheel without me even thinking about it. Take a second and look at how close those two cars are. That is a very accurate depiction of the room I had. Then imagine a Pontiac Montana pulling off that maneuver that fast. The only reason I didn't shit myself is because I didn't have time.

An amazing testament to lightning reflexes and how precise the brain can be in pressure situations? Maybe....maybe.

Blind ass, stupid, fucking luck? Maybe...maybe.

God hearing me invoke the name of the Lord, grabbing my hands and directing them to pull off a maneuver that I couldn't repeat in 10,000 more tries? Pretty fantastic explanation, I admit...but had you experienced it, you wouldn't rule it out. Well maybe you would. I can't...I will tell you that much. The entire sequence of events took place in no more than two seconds, probably less. And I can assure you of two things. Although I never met any of those drivers, it was so damned close that I am 100% certain all of them tell that story to this day. And second, if there were any atheists behind the wheel of those cars before that incident, there sure as hell weren't any afterwards.

Now is that proof of the existence of God? Absolutely not! At least not for anyone but me and perhaps the drivers of the other cars. But, I cannot find any other way to explain it that satisfies the experience. Just re-playing it through my mind gives me chills and terrifies me to this day.

I had a similar experience. I was on my Moto Guzzi on a back country road doing about 90+ mph (at least). A moron in a car pulls out of a side road, sees me and stops dead blocking my lane entirely. There is an oncoming car in the other lane. I have nowhere to go but to hit the moron. I have the brakes on so hard the tires are moaning. (That is right before they lock up and start screeching). I am closing in on this moron so fast I can see his eyes bulging with fright! There is no way to avoid this because there is nowhere else to go and I was braking at the limit.

I am dead centered on the front door panel and so I put one leg up on the tank so that I could jump over the bonnet instead of slamming into the car. At the last millisecond I realize that the oncoming car is going to pass the front of the moron just before impact.

I pointed the bike at where the gap was going to be and went around the front of him with one leg still up on the tank. I would probably have slammed it against his fender it it wasn't on the tank it was that close. That entire episode lasted less than 2 seconds but it was probably less.

No, I didn't pray but I probably called the moron some choice phrases. I put it down to dumb luck that the other vehicle kept on going (probably never even saw me) and that I was riding one of the finest and most stable motorbikes that Italy has ever made. I had it up to 150 mph before over mountain passes so I was used to riding it and knew what it could do as far as acceleration, braking and handling were concerned.

The gap would not have been there if the other driver had slowed down or I had locked up the wheels on the bike. Seeing that gap and taking it at the last millisecond probably saved me from some very painful injuries, if not my life. I was operating on pure adrenaline and instincts and no, I never want to try that again.

So no divine intervention, just one of those things where you go home and make love to your spouse because you are still around to do it. My explanation is that if I was riding any other bike I probably would have crashed.

So I can trade war stories with you if you like but neither of us are going to convince the other with personal anecdotes.

 

[BluePhantom]

There is no evidence ergo it is not credible.

Well it's a highly personal thing that is best interpreted by the individual. There are things I have experienced in my life that I simply cannot explain. Let me relate one. This may seem less miraculous reading it, but I can assure you that the experience was far different. I was driving back to Phoenix from Las Vegas one day and I was travelling on a two-lane country highway. I was driving this big Pontiac Montana road boat and going about 80-85 mph. I started to approach an intersection and there were three other cars at it. Two of those cars were stopped on either side waiting to enter the highway (blue and green cars below). The third car was turning left off the highway onto the side road (red car). The car entering the highway on my side (blue car) didn't see me coming and pulled out into the highway right the fuck in front of me. So have a look at this pic. This is what the situation was:

So I am barreling from the right side of the pic and this was close. There was no time for me to move my foot from the gas to the brake. I would have smashed into the blue car before my foot got there. I shouted out "JESUS!" Now I will be honest. I don't know if I shouted that as in "Lord, please help me" or as in "Ohhhhh FUCK!" But my hands jerked the wheel to the left shooting me into the oncoming lane so hard that I damn near rolled it. Then immediately jerked the wheel back to the right and somehow managed to thread the needle between the blue and red cars....in my road boat van at about 80-85 mph. i did not plan this. I didn't have time to analyze the situation and make a determination about where to steer the car. My hands literally started whipping the wheel without me even thinking about it. Take a second and look at how close those two cars are. That is a very accurate depiction of the room I had. Then imagine a Pontiac Montana pulling off that maneuver that fast. The only reason I didn't shit myself is because I didn't have time.

An amazing testament to lightning reflexes and how precise the brain can be in pressure situations? Maybe....maybe.

Blind ass, stupid, fucking luck? Maybe...maybe.

God hearing me invoke the name of the Lord, grabbing my hands and directing them to pull off a maneuver that I couldn't repeat in 10,000 more tries? Pretty fantastic explanation, I admit...but had you experienced it, you wouldn't rule it out. Well maybe you would. I can't...I will tell you that much. The entire sequence of events took place in no more than two seconds, probably less. And I can assure you of two things. Although I never met any of those drivers, it was so damned close that I am 100% certain all of them tell that story to this day. And second, if there were any atheists behind the wheel of those cars before that incident, there sure as hell weren't any afterwards.

Now is that proof of the existence of God? Absolutely not! At least not for anyone but me and perhaps the drivers of the other cars. But, I cannot find any other way to explain it that satisfies the experience. Just re-playing it through my mind gives me chills and terrifies me to this day.

I had a similar experience. I was on my Moto Guzzi on a back country road doing about 90+ mph (at least). A moron in a car pulls out of a side road, sees me and stops dead blocking my lane entirely. There is an oncoming car in the other lane. I have nowhere to go but to hit the moron. I have the brakes on so hard the tires are moaning. (That is right before they lock up and start screeching). I am closing in on this moron so fast I can see his eyes bulging with fright! There is no way to avoid this because there is nowhere else to go and I was braking at the limit.

I am dead centered on the front door panel and so I put one leg up on the tank so that I could jump over the bonnet instead of slamming into the car. At the last millisecond I realize that the oncoming car is going to pass the front of the moron just before impact.

I pointed the bike at where the gap was going to be and went around the front of him with one leg still up on the tank. I would probably have slammed it against his fender it it wasn't on the tank it was that close. That entire episode lasted less than 2 seconds but it was probably less.

No, I didn't pray but I probably called the moron some choice phrases. I put it down to dumb luck that the other vehicle kept on going (probably never even saw me) and that I was riding one of the finest and most stable motorbikes that Italy has ever made. I had it up to 150 mph before over mountain passes so I was used to riding it and knew what it could do as far as acceleration, braking and handling were concerned.

The gap would not have been there if the other driver had slowed down or I had locked up the wheels on the bike. Seeing that gap and taking it at the last millisecond probably saved me from some very painful injuries, if not my life. I was operating on pure adrenaline and instincts and no, I never want to try that again.

So no divine intervention, just one of those things where you go home and make love to your spouse because you are still around to do it. My explanation is that if I was riding any other bike I probably would have crashed.

So I can trade war stories with you if you like but neither of us are going to convince the other with personal anecdotes.

Oh I know we won't. But we each see things like that in our own way and in such a way that gives it meaning perhaps. As I said...it could have been nothing more than blind, stupid luck except that I honestly felt like I had no control of my hands. As I replay it in my mind, I was more of a passenger screeching like a little girl while my hands were working independently. Maybe it was luck....or maybe I screamed Jesus and Jesus took the wheel. Just depends on how one wishes to look at it I guess. Like your experience though, I don't ever want to try it again to find out.

 

[BluePhantom]

There is no evidence ergo it is not credible.

Well it's a highly personal thing that is best interpreted by the individual. There are things I have experienced in my life that I simply cannot explain. Let me relate one. This may seem less miraculous reading it, but I can assure you that the experience was far different. I was driving back to Phoenix from Las Vegas one day and I was travelling on a two-lane country highway. I was driving this big Pontiac Montana road boat and going about 80-85 mph. I started to approach an intersection and there were three other cars at it. Two of those cars were stopped on either side waiting to enter the highway (blue and green cars below). The third car was turning left off the highway onto the side road (red car). The car entering the highway on my side (blue car) didn't see me coming and pulled out into the highway right the fuck in front of me. So have a look at this pic. This is what the situation was:

So I am barreling from the right side of the pic and this was close. There was no time for me to move my foot from the gas to the brake. I would have smashed into the blue car before my foot got there. I shouted out "JESUS!" Now I will be honest. I don't know if I shouted that as in "Lord, please help me" or as in "Ohhhhh FUCK!" But my hands jerked the wheel to the left shooting me into the oncoming lane so hard that I damn near rolled it. Then immediately jerked the wheel back to the right and somehow managed to thread the needle between the blue and red cars....in my road boat van at about 80-85 mph. i did not plan this. I didn't have time to analyze the situation and make a determination about where to steer the car. My hands literally started whipping the wheel without me even thinking about it. Take a second and look at how close those two cars are. That is a very accurate depiction of the room I had. Then imagine a Pontiac Montana pulling off that maneuver that fast. The only reason I didn't shit myself is because I didn't have time.

An amazing testament to lightning reflexes and how precise the brain can be in pressure situations? Maybe....maybe.

Blind ass, stupid, fucking luck? Maybe...maybe.

God hearing me invoke the name of the Lord, grabbing my hands and directing them to pull off a maneuver that I couldn't repeat in 10,000 more tries? Pretty fantastic explanation, I admit...but had you experienced it, you wouldn't rule it out. Well maybe you would. I can't...I will tell you that much. The entire sequence of events took place in no more than two seconds, probably less. And I can assure you of two things. Although I never met any of those drivers, it was so damned close that I am 100% certain all of them tell that story to this day. And second, if there were any atheists behind the wheel of those cars before that incident, there sure as hell weren't any afterwards.

Now is that proof of the existence of God? Absolutely not! At least not for anyone but me and perhaps the drivers of the other cars. But, I cannot find any other way to explain it that satisfies the experience. Just re-playing it through my mind gives me chills and terrifies me to this day.

I had a similar experience. I was on my Moto Guzzi on a back country road doing about 90+ mph (at least). A moron in a car pulls out of a side road, sees me and stops dead blocking my lane entirely. There is an oncoming car in the other lane. I have nowhere to go but to hit the moron. I have the brakes on so hard the tires are moaning. (That is right before they lock up and start screeching). I am closing in on this moron so fast I can see his eyes bulging with fright! There is no way to avoid this because there is nowhere else to go and I was braking at the limit.

I am dead centered on the front door panel and so I put one leg up on the tank so that I could jump over the bonnet instead of slamming into the car. At the last millisecond I realize that the oncoming car is going to pass the front of the moron just before impact.

I pointed the bike at where the gap was going to be and went around the front of him with one leg still up on the tank. I would probably have slammed it against his fender it it wasn't on the tank it was that close. That entire episode lasted less than 2 seconds but it was probably less.

No, I didn't pray but I probably called the moron some choice phrases. I put it down to dumb luck that the other vehicle kept on going (probably never even saw me) and that I was riding one of the finest and most stable motorbikes that Italy has ever made. I had it up to 150 mph before over mountain passes so I was used to riding it and knew what it could do as far as acceleration, braking and handling were concerned.

The gap would not have been there if the other driver had slowed down or I had locked up the wheels on the bike. Seeing that gap and taking it at the last millisecond probably saved me from some very painful injuries, if not my life. I was operating on pure adrenaline and instincts and no, I never want to try that again.

So no divine intervention, just one of those things where you go home and make love to your spouse because you are still around to do it. My explanation is that if I was riding any other bike I probably would have crashed.

So I can trade war stories with you if you like but neither of us are going to convince the other with personal anecdotes.

I will tell you this though. The jack-ass in the car that pulled out in front of me....I am 99% certain he didn't even know I was there until I zipped by his nose. Those three drivers must have been looking at each other like 'who is going to go first?' because they were all on paths that conflicted with the other. So they were probably so busy looking at each other that they didn't even see me coming until I was right on top of them.

Now once I got past, I pulled over and got out to gather myself and I looked back down the road and all three of those cars were also pulled over. The drivers were out walking around aimlessly like a bunch of zombies. But that driver that pulled out had to be thinking "ok I will go firs.......(ZOOM).......WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?!?!?"

 

[HaShev]

You done talking to yourself flooding the forum in hopes people don't see your blunder?

Here's another problem with your conclusion.
When I was a teen running errands for my office I was rushing to get to the bank before it closed, so I was like power walking and suddenly I got a walkers cramping stomach muscle and it slowed me down a few seconds enough to see bricks fall off an old brick row home bldg and fall right in front of me thus saving my life.
According to a few people my being a nemesis of Jesus and his holy spirit means if Jesus was in control I'd walk under the fallen bricks, so how would I be part of your so called miracle unless you admit you are talking out your bottom or admit God favors me more the Jesus.

 

[amrchaos]

If 'near misses' only happened to Christians, then there maybe something to their claims.

However, near misses happens to everyone despite their religious beliefs.