Yes, it was all a lie about Obamacare

[OnePercenter]

before you know it the only people in this country with healthcare will be illegal aliens and welfare slugs

....and the wealthy. Just think, if Reagan hadn't screwed with the HMO act none of this would be necessary.

 

[Trajan]

What?

You mean government fucked something up again?

I was so sure that THIS TIME they would get it right...

906 pages of law should have covered everything right?

Assholes.

It was obvious to me that when Obama repeatedly used 46 million as number of uninsured this was going to be a GIGANTIC cluster...K!
When his own Census said 10 million uninsured were not citizens, and 14 million only needed to register with Medicaid and they were covered it proved to me they didn't know what they were doing!
But when he falsely included 18 million people THAT didn't want health insurance I KNEW this was a huge fraud!
Subtract that 42 million above and you find ONLY 4 million that truly wanted and needed health insurance.
So that's why taxing lawyers 10% of $200 billion income would pay a $5,000 a person premium. BUT then I found out lawyers gave OBAMA/Congress $300 million in 2008!
Unlike the tanning salon lobby that didn't and found themselves now responsible for 10% tax all because tanning causes cancer!
Well lawyers cause $850 billion a year in defensive medicine... why are they exempt other then they are fellow lawyers with Obama and 47% of Congress!

Obama never used the 46 million number.

no he didn't, so in effect the lies about the huge number the Dems used in the run up, to soften up the nitwits with the usual emotional mawkish crap never existed.......

wow, you found something he didn't lie about, congrats dude...

 

[TemplarKormac]

before you know it the only people in this country with healthcare will be illegal aliens and welfare slugs

....and the wealthy. Just think, if Reagan hadn't screwed with the HMO act none of this would be necessary.

Maybe if you idiots hadn't elected Obama, none of this would be necessary.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Sarah Palin is credited with the death panel myth. In August 2009, she claimed Democrats would create a “death panel,” in which government bureaucrats would decide whether disabled and elderly patients are “worthy of healthcare.” Despite being debunked by fact-checkers and mainstream media outlets, this myth has persisted.

The rules that govern who get's organs is determined by UNOS, a nonprofit corporation whose board is made up of half organ transplant doctors and half organ recipients. The determination of who gets the transplants must be made based on science not emotions. Sebelius did exactly what she should have done. To have the HHS step in and attempt to override transplant rules based on emotional appeals would be wrong.

UNOS

SCIENCE??? NOT EMOTION???

So I suppose you have NO problem that 670,000 fetuses are aborted each year strictly because of emotion, not science?
Why not sterilize those women that come in for their 2nd or more abortion of which 47% of all abortions are by these women?
Science would say letting these poor ignorant women go through the pain of abortion is just medieval!
Using your "SCIENCE" not emotion shouldn't that apply to those women that keep getting pregnant???

Your post is a diversion.
If you want to switch topics, open an abortion thread.

Since Obamacare covers abortions, I think he/she should stay here. If you want to, posit an argument.

 

[Trajan]

before you know it the only people in this country with healthcare will be illegal aliens and welfare slugs

well thats harsh but hey, I have said all along, the 60% or so who liked their access and care etc. will now see it lowered to bring the bottom 20% up.....if you are not getting a means tested dole, earned income tax credits etc. , your care and access will be submarined.....its the only way to make this work at all, that is, if it does 'work'....

 

[TemplarKormac]

The conclusion from your link

and

"Tens of millions don't have insurance"?????

OK let's do the numbers again!
18 million DON"T WANT HEALTH insurance because they don't need it and pay their expense out of their pocket! WHY force them to buy insurance?
14 million ARE ALREADY COVERED BY MEDICAID! DO YOU understand?? THEY JUST NEED TO REGISTER!!!
That means 32 million either don't want or don't know they are covered.
Finally even the census says there are 10 million that are COUNTED AS UNINSURED that are ILLEGAL ALIENS!!! Do you understand?
That leaves 4 million NOT TENS of millions!!!

NOW you never ever addressed the issue of taxing lawyers at 10% since like tanning salons that Obama taxed because tanning generates cancer /insurance claims,
TAX the lawyers $200 billion a year! Since you don't seem to respect the EXPERTS who are telling you that nearly $850 billion in DUPLICATE TESTS are caused by FEAR of
LAWYERS! Lawsuits! So take the 10% tax like Obama taxed tanning salons and use the $20 billion to buy insurance for the 4 million uninsured!
Then when the uninsured goes to hospital the hospital means tests "uninsured" finds can't pay.. registers and then HOSPITAL BILLS the Uninsured Health Ins. Co.©!
The hospitals then are audited to make sure they are NOT "padding and Passing" sometimes at 6,000% over costs and watch Medicare/insurance cos. claims cost drop!
Between the two less $850 billion defensive medicine and the padding and passing" easily $200 billion a year in cost savings!

Please think what I'm writing about!
A) There are only 4 million truly that want and need insurance... the rest don't want, are covered or not legal!
B) Lawyers cause $850 billion in defensive medicine costs.. tax them 10% and use to pay the 4 million that need coverage!

Why are these two concepts totally ignored by you???

Where did you get your numbers? 18 million don't want health insurance???

Medicaid home

Heads up.

The deadline for uninsured Americans to buy health insurance under the new federal health care reform law is quickly approaching. But a new survey shows almost two-thirds of uninsured Americans still aren’t sure whether they’ll comply – and many are confused about whether they’ll be eligible for tax credits to help pay premiums.

This information comes from a new survey, conducted on behalf of InsuranceQuotes.com by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. The survey reveals that 64 percent of the uninsured say they haven’t decided whether they will buy health insurance by Jan. 1, 2014, as required by the Affordable Care Act (ACA), which is also known as Obamacare.

The future of health insurance for uninsured Americans | InsuranceQuotes.com

Seems like they are planning on taking Obama up on his promise to let them keep the plans they currently have.

 

[Trajan]

Here's another lie about obamacare:

"There are no death panels!"

In fact, as we all knew, there will be death panels in obamacare. Kathleen Sebelius just conducted the first death panel when she denied the lung transplant for that little girl. Thank God a judge told her to **** off and allowed the girl to get her lung and have her life saved.

Sarah Palin is credited with the death panel myth. In August 2009, she claimed Democrats would create a “death panel,” in which government bureaucrats would decide whether disabled and elderly patients are “worthy of healthcare.” Despite being debunked by fact-checkers and mainstream media outlets, this myth has persisted.

The rules that govern who get's organs is determined by UNOS, a nonprofit corporation whose board is made up of half organ transplant doctors and half organ recipients. The determination of who gets the transplants must be made based on science not emotions. Sebelius did exactly what she should have done. To have the HHS step in and attempt to override transplant rules based on emotional appeals would be wrong.

UNOS

transplants sure that a different story not that a Judge didn't take it out of the medical panels hands.... but the IPAB? ok what would you call it? come up with an honest name that describes what it does ........and why does Congress have no oversight?

 

[Trajan]

hey, obama has volunteered to go on the exchange...

 

[OnePercenter]

before you know it the only people in this country with healthcare will be illegal aliens and welfare slugs

....and the wealthy. Just think, if Reagan hadn't screwed with the HMO act none of this would be necessary.

Maybe if you idiots hadn't elected Obama, none of this would be necessary.

Maybe?

 

[OnePercenter]

before you know it the only people in this country with healthcare will be illegal aliens and welfare slugs

....and the wealthy. Just think, if Reagan hadn't screwed with the HMO act none of this would be necessary.

Maybe if you idiots hadn't elected Obama, none of this would be necessary.

Reagan reformed the original HMC) Act of 1973 to include a fund to subsidize the establishment of for-profit HMOs

Fighting Against the Evils of For-Profit Health Care: The Patients’ "Bill of Rights"

 

[healthmyths]

Sarah Palin is credited with the death panel myth. In August 2009, she claimed Democrats would create a “death panel,” in which government bureaucrats would decide whether disabled and elderly patients are “worthy of healthcare.” Despite being debunked by fact-checkers and mainstream media outlets, this myth has persisted.

The rules that govern who get's organs is determined by UNOS, a nonprofit corporation whose board is made up of half organ transplant doctors and half organ recipients. The determination of who gets the transplants must be made based on science not emotions. Sebelius did exactly what she should have done. To have the HHS step in and attempt to override transplant rules based on emotional appeals would be wrong.

UNOS

SCIENCE??? NOT EMOTION???

So I suppose you have NO problem that 670,000 fetuses are aborted each year strictly because of emotion, not science?
Why not sterilize those women that come in for their 2nd or more abortion of which 47% of all abortions are by these women?
Science would say letting these poor ignorant women go through the pain of abortion is just medieval!
Using your "SCIENCE" not emotion shouldn't that apply to those women that keep getting pregnant???

Your post is a diversion.
If you want to switch topics, open an abortion thread.

No you stated transplants based on "science"... so you opened why "science" is used in transplants ... but emotion is allowed in abortions?
Because when 47% of women who have an abortion had had an abortion before... that is pure emotion... i.e. she got pregnant in a fit of logic... or passion?
And those are the abortions that should be done AS WELL as a sterilization of the woman who when she had the first abortion agreed.. if she has another abortion she'll be sterilized!
There is absolutely NO scientific rationale to support women who can't be responsible for their own bodies as those women who need another abortion demonstrate!

 

[WillowTree]

]Only a complete moron would want to turn over the management of their health care to the government.

[/B]

we have plenty of those on this board they're all liberals too

 

[Flopper]

Here's another lie about obamacare:

"There are no death panels!"

In fact, as we all knew, there will be death panels in obamacare. Kathleen Sebelius just conducted the first death panel when she denied the lung transplant for that little girl. Thank God a judge told her to **** off and allowed the girl to get her lung and have her life saved.

Sarah Palin is credited with the death panel myth.

Not really. She was only repeating what others said before.



The point she was attempting to make was specifically about the elderly because of the context of the discussion. She knows, as everyone who correctly predicted death panels in obamacare knows, it will make decisions on who gets care and who is told "tough luck".

Despite being debunked by fact-checkers and mainstream media outlets, this myth has persisted.

What has persisted beyond logic is the left's claim that there aren't any death panels now so there never will be. Fact check all you want to NOW, but what everyone says is that there will be death panels and you cannot fact check something that hasn't happened yet.

Of course it has now.

The rules that govern who get's organs is determined by UNOS, a nonprofit corporation whose board is made up of half organ transplant doctors and half organ recipients. The determination of who gets the transplants must be made based on science not emotions. Sebelius did exactly what she should have done. To have the HHS step in and attempt to override transplant rules based on emotional appeals would be wrong.

UNOS

Kathleen Sebelius denied the girl her chance to get her transplant. She did not pass the buck, she denied it. It took a federal judge to over rule her. Sebelius and the Government should have no business making any decision like that at all. Of course she will when obamacare is in full swing.

No, she did not deny anything. She refused to intervene and ask that the UNOS rules that governs transplant be set aside. She said Medical experts should make those decisions.

Had she intervened, she would have been setting a precedent for government to make life and death healthcare decisions, in other words death panels. You accuse the government of having death panels and then you expect the HHS to make life and death healthcare decisions. You can't have it both ways.

Sebelius won't intervene in girl's transplant case - NBC News.com

 

[Dragonlady]

]Only a complete moron would want to turn over the management of their health care to the government.

[/B]

we have plenty of those on this board they're all liberals too

It works in Canada, Denmark, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, France - in fact, every first world nation except the US, has government funded and managed health care. And every single one of those countries does it better and cheaper than the US.

We all think you people are idiots for putting up with your crappy for profit model that only insures those who don't need it.

 

[EriktheRed]

Sarah Palin is credited with the death panel myth.

Not really. She was only repeating what others said before.



The point she was attempting to make was specifically about the elderly because of the context of the discussion. She knows, as everyone who correctly predicted death panels in obamacare knows, it will make decisions on who gets care and who is told "tough luck".



What has persisted beyond logic is the left's claim that there aren't any death panels now so there never will be. Fact check all you want to NOW, but what everyone says is that there will be death panels and you cannot fact check something that hasn't happened yet.

Of course it has now.

The rules that govern who get's organs is determined by UNOS, a nonprofit corporation whose board is made up of half organ transplant doctors and half organ recipients. The determination of who gets the transplants must be made based on science not emotions. Sebelius did exactly what she should have done. To have the HHS step in and attempt to override transplant rules based on emotional appeals would be wrong.

UNOS

Kathleen Sebelius denied the girl her chance to get her transplant. She did not pass the buck, she denied it. It took a federal judge to over rule her. Sebelius and the Government should have no business making any decision like that at all. Of course she will when obamacare is in full swing.

No, she did not deny anything. She refused to intervene and ask that the UNOS rules that government transplant be set aside. She said Medical experts should make those decisions.

Had she intervened, she would have been setting a precedent for government to make life and death healthcare decisions, in other words death panels. You accuse the government of having death panels and then you expect the HHS to make life and death healthcare decisions. You can't have it both ways.

Sebelius won't intervene in girl's transplant case - NBC News.com

Aren't decisions like this basically what private insurance companies do, too?

 

[Flopper]

Not really. She was only repeating what others said before.



The point she was attempting to make was specifically about the elderly because of the context of the discussion. She knows, as everyone who correctly predicted death panels in obamacare knows, it will make decisions on who gets care and who is told "tough luck".



What has persisted beyond logic is the left's claim that there aren't any death panels now so there never will be. Fact check all you want to NOW, but what everyone says is that there will be death panels and you cannot fact check something that hasn't happened yet.

Of course it has now.



Kathleen Sebelius denied the girl her chance to get her transplant. She did not pass the buck, she denied it. It took a federal judge to over rule her. Sebelius and the Government should have no business making any decision like that at all. Of course she will when obamacare is in full swing.

No, she did not deny anything. She refused to intervene and ask that the UNOS rules that government transplant be set aside. She said Medical experts should make those decisions.

Had she intervened, she would have been setting a precedent for government to make life and death healthcare decisions, in other words death panels. You accuse the government of having death panels and then you expect the HHS to make life and death healthcare decisions. You can't have it both ways.

Sebelius won't intervene in girl's transplant case - NBC News.com

Aren't decisions like this basically what private insurance companies do, too?

Yes, but not as much so as in years past.

 

[AmazonTania]

]Only a complete moron would want to turn over the management of their health care to the government.

[/B]

we have plenty of those on this board they're all liberals too

It works in Canada, Denmark, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, France - in fact, every first world nation except the US, has government funded and managed health care. And every single one of those countries does it better and cheaper than the US.

Are you sure?

We all think you people are idiots for putting up with your crappy for profit model that only insures those who don't need it.

Needs are relative. Only individuals can determine what their needs are.

 

[EriktheRed]

No, she did not deny anything. She refused to intervene and ask that the UNOS rules that government transplant be set aside. She said Medical experts should make those decisions.

Had she intervened, she would have been setting a precedent for government to make life and death healthcare decisions, in other words death panels. You accuse the government of having death panels and then you expect the HHS to make life and death healthcare decisions. You can't have it both ways.

Sebelius won't intervene in girl's transplant case - NBC News.com

Aren't decisions like this basically what private insurance companies do, too?

Yes, but not as much so as in years past.

Well, would it still not be fair to say, then, that these so-called death panels aren't really different than the decision-making bodies of private insurance firms?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Here's another lie about obamacare:

"There are no death panels!"

In fact, as we all knew, there will be death panels in obamacare. Kathleen Sebelius just conducted the first death panel when she denied the lung transplant for that little girl. Thank God a judge told her to **** off and allowed the girl to get her lung and have her life saved.

Sarah Palin is credited with the death panel myth. In August 2009, she claimed Democrats would create a “death panel,” in which government bureaucrats would decide whether disabled and elderly patients are “worthy of healthcare.” Despite being debunked by fact-checkers and mainstream media outlets, this myth has persisted.

The rules that govern who get's organs is determined by UNOS, a nonprofit corporation whose board is made up of half organ transplant doctors and half organ recipients. The determination of who gets the transplants must be made based on science not emotions. Sebelius did exactly what she should have done. To have the HHS step in and attempt to override transplant rules based on emotional appeals would be wrong.

UNOS

You can believe there won;t be death panels if you wish.
The first item Obama mentioned after he LIED and said we would see our insurance get cheaper by $2500 per year was the term "efficiency"..
That is a buzz term for " we will decide what we will cover and if it's too expensive, we won't cover it".
Senior citizens are going to get the short end of the stick. They will be told "we will medicate you to keep you comfortable. You're 68 years old and we're not going to absorb the cost of a heart bypass that we know will allow you to live a normal life. We suggest you get your affairs in order. Thanks for contributing to the system, but we have younger people who's lives are of more value to save."
Of course the gate keepers from the federal government won't actually use those words. They will soft pedal the message.
Obamacare is a multi-trillion dollar boondoggle that will increase costs and decrease access to care.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Good catch.

The actual numbers are actually worse.

Not quite. California's cheapest bronze plan (i.e. the one that's supposed to be $20,000) is $219/month for a middle-aged person, or about $2,600 per year. With an individual premium like that, family plans are virtually certain to be less than $10,000/year.

Similarly, the cheapest bronze plan for a family in Vermont (a state with limited competition due to its size and a regulatory climate well above anything imposed by the ACA) is about $11,600. Meanwhile, most families in the exchanges will pay significantly less than those prices if they choose those plans.

So you've only inflated the actual prices by roughly a factor of two. Baby steps toward honesty!

The Bronze level is nothing. One may as well not even have insurance.