Yeah, let's play a game

And if you say, that Russians should rebel against regime defending Russian people and obey regime killing Russian people, it is pretty equal to saying that Russians should march in disciplined columns directly in the European gas chambers and ovens.
Ukraine is not killing Russians outside of Ukraine's border. Except for that stupid incursion into Kursk.
Russians should end the stupid SMO. Too many are dying for nothing.
If you look at the pretext for invasion, 48 dead on both sides in Odessa, vs the 1,000,000 or so dead in the war, it was a stupid war.
No one from the EU needs to march Russians into gas chambers when the Russians march to death in Ukraine, so stupid
 
If we look at the entire prehistory of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the biggest surprise for me is the fact that there wasn't a single politician in Ukraine who would say something like this:
"We are persistently provoking an armed conflict with Russia. If it happens, what will our country gain from it? We won't be able to win, but maybe we'll get some benefits? What benefits?"
Ukraine declared independence in 1991 90% of the people voted for it.
You can say you are provoking a war with Russia, but if Russia wants Ukraine back any excuse for war will do.
The ultimate benefit is independence from Russia.
And this is the main question. Because from the very beginning, it was clear that there was no benefit for Ukraine in conflict with Russia. There are benefits for Western countries and the USA, but Ukraine, having taken on all the dirty work, not only gets no benefits, but also loses a lot (people, territory, industry, energy, money, markets, and even remnants of sovereignty).
Ukraine sacrifices men and wealth to keep their independence, otherwise they are slaves to Russia.
But there wasn't anyone who asked the simple question: "Why are we doing this?" And if someone had asked, then perhaps an obvious answer would have occurred to them: "Our government has betrayed and sold out the people. We will be sacrificed and destroyed for the sake of foreign interests, under the guise of the greatness of the nation and the necessity of hating Russia." It's like throwing a fighting rooster into the ring, watching the fight with excitement and placing bets. But what does the rooster ultimately get? In the end, it dies, bleeding, and behind the fence, another rooster is being prepared, ready to fight to the death, only to get nothing in the end.
Ukrainians voted for independence, 90% said yes to independence.
This is the largest deception since the Second World War. "Because we're not slaves. We're fools." And now, it turns out that we're not just fools, but slaves as well. Do they have right to rebel against Kiev's regime?
Are you writing about Ukraine or Russia?
Russians fighting in Ukraine are Putin's fools.
Ukrainians are fighting Russians for their own country, like our Revolutionary War, independence from the British king.
 
Ukraine is not killing Russians outside of Ukraine's border.
Nobody has right to kill Russians anywhere. If they believe that "sovereignity" (or any other fancy word) gives them right to kill Russians - they'd think better. We gave them sovereignity, and we can take it back.

Except for that stupid incursion into Kursk.
Russians should end the stupid SMO. Too many are dying for nothing.
Much more will die soon. It is not for nothing. It is to defend Russian people.

If you look at the pretext for invasion, 48 dead on both sides in Odessa, vs the 1,000,000 or so dead in the war, it was a stupid war.
We don't look for pretext for invasion. We just eliminate the threat - people who believe that they have right to kill Russians.

No one from the EU needs to march Russians into gas chambers when the Russians march to death in Ukraine, so stupid
As I said earlier - if you think that Russians are stupid defending themselves, you'd think better. We are fighting NATO in Ukraine to avoid being sent to gas chambers. Right now we are doing quite well in proxy war, but, it seems to me (and not only me) we should bring war in Europe and America to force them to make acceptable peace. Shouldn't we?
 
Ukraine declared independence in 1991 90% of the people voted for it.
You can say you are provoking a war with Russia, but if Russia wants Ukraine back any excuse for war will do.
The ultimate benefit is independence from Russia.
Indepence from Russia is possible only with two conditions - you don't discriminate, abuse and kill Russians, and you don't make alliances with anti-Russian forces.

Ukraine sacrifices men and wealth to keep their independence, otherwise they are slaves to Russia.
And now they are carrion cannon fodder for NATO. It was stupid choice.

Ukrainians voted for independence, 90% said yes to independence.
They voted for independence when Ukrainian leaders promised them equal rights for everyone and neutrality. They didn't vote to become cheap cannon fodder for NATO.

Are you writing about Ukraine or Russia?
Russians fighting in Ukraine are Putin's fools.
Ukrainians are fighting Russians for their own country, like our Revolutionary War, independence from the British king.
People, who defend their right to speak their own language, to be laymen of their Church, to defend their wealth and safety - are they fools?
And people who decided to become cheap cannon fodder for the foreign powers are smart guys?
Do you consider yourself as a smart man? Do you want to sacrifice your own country for Ukrainian independence or right of French imbeciles nuke Russian cities?

And, technically, American colonists, have been fighting against their own country, British Empire, for the benefit of France, Spain and Russia. Were they Katherina's fools?
 
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You don't know a fig about both Russia and/or Ukraine and try to lecture somebody who is much better informed.
True. I don't have a dog in that fight. But I do know certain facts. Putin's war is more expensive than Putin bargained for, but he can't walk away with his tail between his legs, no matter how many young men die, his ego doesn't care, or he would cut a peace deal.
Really? Was it the same way right for subjects of British crown, living in American colonies, Texans living in Mexico, to Albanians living in Serbia, Kurds and Arabs in Iraq, Iran and Syria? Do you actually believe that people shouldn't fight against despotic, discriminating, abusive and literally genocidal regimes? Or you just turned on your racist regime, and say that Russians don't have basic human rights?
BTW, do Russians have the Right of Rebellion against Putin's regime?
People have always been able to decide when rebellion is necessary, the French Revolution, killing the Czar and his family, as examples. But being mistreated is different than fighting for a different flag, like the "Russians" being mistreated in Ukraine. I'm not seeing "ethnic cleansing" happening in Ukraine, Putin just wants to Ukraine in his sphere of influence. So there is a war
Oh my. You just said that Russians are mindless creatures, who doesn't know what is good and what is bad for them.
Is dying for Putin's goal of having Ukraine worth the cost? That is a personal choice.
We are Russians, we are taking whatever we like, especially, talking about cultural and intellectual things. And I'm not surprised that you are not current with Russian culture (given the nature of American regime, who keep Americans in darkness and feed them with shit). Talking about movies, there was a nice movie "The Last Paladin", among other things, understating visual conception of GOT (and some other Hollywood masterpieces). And in this movie, Kashey The Undead (the visual heir of King of Night)is a good guy.
We occasionally get Russian movies on Netflix. One was about a WW2 fighter squadron. Another about a tank crew. But other than those many references to modern Russians are like John Wick, fighting the Russian mob, or older classy Russians playing chess in Queens Gambit. I remember elegant classy Russian ice skaters, the Protopovs, nothing like Putin. But we never see Russian lives in general. One factoid I know is that Russian subways are spotless and have chandeliers for lights, we have subway thugs, and graffiti all over. Years ago I took my daughter for an interview at Brooklyn Law, and coming up the steps out of the subway there was shit on the hand rail. City animals.
1769882057075.webp
...Queens Gambit
1769882232981.webp
...subway graffiti.
You can't be serious. Russia is much more developed country (talking about internet) than the USA. First of all, we have our own platforms, plus neutral grounds like Telegram. Second - if you want something, you can always use VPN or other ways to get access. USMB is also blocked, so I use VPN.
LOL. That's an old joke that Russians invented everything.
Stop being that nuclear-phobic. Nuclear war is practically unavoidable, and the only question is who will win it and with what losses.
I hope you are wrong, for all of us.
Unrecognised Republic of Texas asked for the foreign help from the USA. Technically, the USA were a foreign land for Texas until it's annexation.
Sam Houston defeated Santa Anna in the battle of San Jacinto with no help from DC.
That is why we need to bring war in Europe and in the USA to coerce you into peace.
And you'll stop supporting them when your heartlands are in significant danger.
What do you think about nuclear destruction of Chicago? Or about another civil war?
Very bad idea. That would be called WW3.
 
True. I don't have a dog in that fight. But I do know certain facts. Putin's war is more expensive than Putin bargained for, but he can't walk away with his tail between his legs, no matter how many young men die, his ego doesn't care, or he would cut a peace deal.
It's not about ego. In Ukrainain conflict we are not acting in the logic of "raid" when you compare losses and benefits, and if loses are high you just try to cut the damage and end the venture. We are acting in the logic of elimination of the threat. More losses means that the threat is serious and you have to put more efforts to eliminate it.

People have always been able to decide when rebellion is necessary, the French Revolution, killing the Czar and his family, as examples.
So, Russian people of Donbass were right, fighting against Kievan regime? Don't you think that people of Odessa might also decide to rebel against it?

But being mistreated is different than fighting for a different flag, like the "Russians" being mistreated in Ukraine. I'm not seeing "ethnic cleansing" happening in Ukraine, Putin just wants to Ukraine in his sphere of influence. So there is a war
Russian sphere of influence is the whole world. Russia is a global power, if you didn't notice. And you are not seeing "ethnic cleansing" because you just don't see anything but American TV shows.

Is dying for Putin's goal of having Ukraine worth the cost? That is a personal choice.
Is dying for protecting Russian people worth the cost?

We occasionally get Russian movies on Netflix. One was about a WW2 fighter squadron. Another about a tank crew. But other than those many references to modern Russians are like John Wick, fighting the Russian mob, or older classy Russians playing chess in Queens Gambit. I remember elegant classy Russian ice skaters, the Protopovs, nothing like Putin. But we never see Russian lives in general. One factoid I know is that Russian subways are spotless and have chandeliers for lights, we have subway thugs, and graffiti all over. Years ago I took my daughter for an interview at Brooklyn Law, and coming up the steps out of the subway there was shit on the hand rail. City animals.
View attachment 1213457...Queens Gambit
View attachment 1213459...subway graffiti.
Are you banned in YouTube? Chandeliers are out of fashion nowadays.

Talking about design I like Novorigskaya station (for obvious reason people often call it Santa-Barbarovskaya).

LOL. That's an old joke that Russians invented everything.
Not everything. We just have some advantages of better centralisation.

I hope you are wrong, for all of us.
It was you, who practically said that Americans are not interested in making peace with Russia, and they see Russians as subhumans who can't see difference between right and wrong.

Sam Houston defeated Santa Anna in the battle of San Jacinto with no help from DC.
But winning battle doesn't mean winning war. Texas was asking support of the USA.
Anyway, would you support Alberta separatist, fighting against discriminative and genocidal pro-Chinese Canadian regime?

Very bad idea. That would be called WW3.
Why not? If you can't make peace with Russians, you are part of the problem to be solved. And no, "bringing war" doesn't necessarily mean direct attack. Proxy attacks can be very persuasive and distractice, too, especially with WMD. Like, you know, 911 effectively distracted America from support of Muslim terrorists.
 
Her is, for example, the radius of Geranium/Shahed cruise missiles, deployed on Cuba. Even without WMD they may be a threat.
IMG_20260131_235201_437.webp
 
It's not about ego. In Ukrainian conflict we are not acting in the logic of "raid" when you compare losses and benefits, and if loses are high you just try to cut the damage and end the venture. We are acting in the logic of elimination of the threat. More losses means that the threat is serious and you have to put more efforts to eliminate it.
I re-read the history of the Ukraine war, and how Putin kept giving NATO ultimatums, which NATO ignored.
The longer the war goes, the weaker Russia becomes.
So, Russian people of Donbas were right, fighting against Kiev's regime? Don't you think that people of Odessa might also decide to rebel against it?
I doubt it, or they would have done it by now.
Russian sphere of influence is the whole world. Russia is a global power, if you didn't notice. And you are not seeing "ethnic cleansing" because you just don't see anything but American TV shows.
If you believe that, fine.
Is dying for protecting Russian people worth the cost?
Dying in a needless war is not worth anything.
Are you banned in YouTube? Chandeliers are out of fashion nowadays.
Very nice subway system. Our DC Metro is nice, but not the NYC subways.
1769901613186.webp

It was you, who practically said that Americans are not interested in making peace with Russia, and they see Russians as subhumans who can't see difference between right and wrong.
I never said that, and you know it.
But winning battle doesn't mean winning war. Texas was asking support of the USA.
Anyway, would you support Alberta separatist, fighting against discrimination and genocidal pro-Chinese Canadian regime?
Bad analogy. Separatists in Ukraine are an insignificant minority.
Why not? If you can't make peace with Russians, you are part of the problem to be solved. And no, "bringing war" doesn't necessarily mean direct attack. Proxy attacks can be very persuasive and distracting, too, especially with WMD. Like, you know, 911 effectively distracted America from support of Muslim terrorists.
Conventional War is counter-productive except or the Military Industrial Complex.
A nuclear war is the end of civilization.
 
Cuba has no gas. Trump may be ensuring that the US keeps these out of Cuba.
View attachment 1213568
As if he can do it. The only reliable way to prevent selling long range UAV to enemies of America, is don't sell weapons to enemies of Russia and Iran. And it is what he can't do.
 
I re-read the history of the Ukraine war, and how Putin kept giving NATO ultimatums, which NATO ignored.
And look, where NATO is going now. And think, that the things can become much-much worse for you.

The longer the war goes, the weaker Russia becomes.
It simply not true. And even it was true, it would be just another reason to finish the war by decisive victory over NATO.

I doubt it, or they would have done it by now.
They tried in 2014, this rebellion was supressed. But there still a lot of people who hate Nazies (like absolute majority of the city). Right now they are more useful for Russia as sources of information and for limited sabotage acts. People just wait for being liberated, it is more safe, from their point of view. But if they think that they are left alone, and if SBU (Ukrainian heir of KGB) decide that Kievan regime needs good rebels to do bad things to draw NATO in the war, and Russia decide that even limited NATO forces are unacceptable, and NATO forces just need a pretext to send additional forces (and in all those four things we can be pretty certain), there will be rebellion.

If you believe that, fine.
I just better informed. Both about Russia and Ukraine (and, may be, about few specific things in Latin America). I can't be sure about your motivations, may be, you can't speak freely, may be you just playing fool, and in fact you are not that ignorant and wishful-thinking creature you want to demonstrate.

Dying in a needless war is not worth anything.
This war won't be needless. This very discussion proves that Americans need a lesson. Don't you?

Very nice subway system. Our DC Metro is nice, but not the NYC subways.
View attachment 1213572

I never said that, and you know it.
Didn't you say that Putin is a monster? Doesn't it mean, that Russian people are stupid and immoral to allow monster to rule them? Didn't you posted Goebbels-style article that Russians elected Putin because they love dictatorship?
I don't like Putin (or, to be specific, his scenic image, for I see difference between a person and a role). Putin's regime did a lot of wrong and stupid things (at least from my point of view). But defending Russian people (including attacks against Ukraine or NATO if necessary) isn't a "mistake". It is his duty. It is our duty as human beings.

Bad analogy. Separatists in Ukraine are an insignificant minority.
Of course they are not. Before 2014 the Party of Regions had more than 50% of votes. Now, when significant part of Nazi-fanatics are dead, and moderate guys see that NATO (especially the USA) betrayed Kievan regime... In the case of fair and free elections, separatist in most regions will win.

Conventional War is counter-productive except or the Military Industrial Complex.
A nuclear war is the end of civilization.

Of course not. Let's play game. Russia successfully nuke US nuclear forces, hit only military targets, (but significan part of Montana and Dacotas should be evacuated because of fallouts) and, after it the USA has only one survived SSBN (USS "Wyoming", twenty Trident-II missiles with, say, three 100-kt warheads each) in Atlantic and, say, few submarines in Pacific, at detterence patrol against China (you need days to attack European part of Russia, if you do it - China will be perfectly save to attack the USA).
Russia say: "Right now we attacked only military targets and we suggest peace deal (we want Alaska and California). But if you retaliate, we'll destroy seven your cities for every our, and then we'll demand unconditional surrender. We give you twelve hours (without bombing military targets in your cities) to think, and evacuate your civilians"

You are a decision-maker. You can order the only survived Atlantic SSBN attack Moscow, but, highly likely, Moscow ABD will intercept all 60 warheads. Even if some came throw, Moscow population (especially state-essential personnel) is partly evacuated, partly shelptered. May be, you'll kill few dozens or hundreds of thousands civilians. But then Russia will destroy seven large American cities and then continue bombing until your unconditional surrender. You can order to attack, say, ten smaller, and poorly protected cities. It will lead to destruction of seventy American cities and then, also bombing campaign until unconditional surrender.

What will you choose?

But even if you choose "fight until last American man, woman and child", elimination of America doesn't mean "end of civilisation" in any meaningful sense. I love America, but it is just a little part of the world.
 
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And if Geranium-2/Shahed missiles are already on Cuba, what Trump can do to protect American assets in the USA? Impose the state of national emergency?
 
There will be no need in nuking US cities if the USA accept pretty generous (given the circumstances) peace terms after Russian counter-force strike (I'm almost sure that you won't accept them before nuclear strike). Yes, significant territories in Wyoming and Montana will be depopulated but who cares about freaking Montana at all?
The people who live in Montana, like our daughter and her family.
You should visit there. I recommend Flathead lake and Glacier Park region.
 
Why take ANY damage? No need to. The US is all about generating wealth and prosperity. Call it Capitalism.

What will civilization look like in 20-years? Will AI solve nuclear fusion, or will it always be 20-years into the future?

What will AI do in the arms race? Will there even be a need for militaries? Trump wants $600b more for defense in 2027 for a total defense budget of $1.5T. This is getting ridiculous. There are better things to spend money on than weapons.

Trump is taking Putin's "Black Fleet" off the oceans. Better take the peace deal before the shit starts flying.
A reminder that the USA Defense Budget includes pay and benefits for the military personnel and the USA is the most generous provider of such when the full amount is tallied.
My point is it's not all just weapons.
 
I don't complain. We both know, that Budapest Memorabdum is nothing but pretext. And no, it was your side, who supported Maidan coup, i.e. an act of aggression against neutral Ukraine.


Of course they want, and they already did it. Bad or good, but they always do it.


But sometimes wars are lesser evil. Actually, they may even hope that Russia occupation after the war will be better than some kind of Thirty years war. Say nothing that America could force them to fight Russia, as Biden did with Ukraine.


Not always. Watch "First strike" (1979) or "The House of Dynamite" (2025). And if we are prepered to your retaliation and attacked first, the number of casualties will pretty acceptable (lesser than 20 mln killed). More acceptable that the number of victims in the case of "uncontrollable escalation" or "unacceptable peace".


Of course it's nothing even close to truth. (At least if you don't count scratches as "casualties" and "losses"). More realistic number is something close to 30k killed in a year. More or less close to death count in car accidents. Do you consider situation on American roads as a "meat-grinder"? I mean, you definitely don't like it, you want to decrease it, but without car traffic there will be much worse situation.


Plain lie. In the case of a regional war (if Russia is sure that America is absolutely neutral) Russia, according doctrine, will use tactical nukes. And Russia has a lot of them. Much more than France.


It might be disaster, but alternatives can be worse.


It's a fiction. In real life there are no flawless victories. You fight the war, and you have to pay the price. You just choose scenarios with minimal losses. Twenty million killed is "better" than fifty million killed, and fifty million killed is better than 100% of population genocided.

And, talking about fiction movies, there is a nice time travelling movie "One Hundred Years Ahead" (2024), and there is a choice between bright post-nuclear war (and the war included total destruction, with further rebuild, of Moscow) future in which Earth is controlled by Star Federation (good guys), or world in which there were no nuclear wars (at least Moscow wasn't destroyed) but Earth is controlled by the evil Pirate Alliance. Not that the protagonist have a lot of choice, the pirates want to kill him, and he fight mostly for his own life (saving Earth is just a nice bonus).



I doubt that American censorship will allow this movie on American screens.

Movie looks interesting.
Does come with English dubbing and/or subtitles ?
 
Let's play. The game is First Strike.


How many B-52 do you have airborn alert at everydays basis? The answer is simple - zero.
What does it mean in practical way?
It means that all your B-52 bombers are destroyed on the land by the First Russian strike.

The "game/movie" is 45+ years old.
A bit out of date.
 
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The people who live in Montana, like our daughter and her family.
You should visit there. I recommend Flathead lake and Glacier Park region.
If they really care about themselves, they should either vote against any confronation with Russia, or have fallout-shelters, respirators, and food and fuel supply. Or simply leave this region. We'll try to minimise civilian casualties in the first strike (apart from the pure humanitarian reasons, every survived civilian is an additional hostage for the further coerction game).
I've been to Wyoming once. Yes, nature there is nice.
 
The "game/movie" is 45+ years old.
A bit out of date.
And what changed since then? The number of American nukes significantly decreased, accurancy of Russian missiles and effectiveness of sensors, computers and communications significantly increased.
Russian regime became more acceptable for many Americans and American regime became lesser acceptable for even larger number of Americans.
The probability of successful first strike and successful coercrion into mutually acceptable peace terms had increased, not decreased.
 
Movie looks interesting.
Does come with English dubbing and/or subtitles ?
I believe there is English dubbing version, "Guest from the future" (2024) but I don't know if you can find it on legal and popular streaming services.

 
I can also suggest "Dark Planet (The Inhabited Island)" conception "A Russian among aliens", and there both Earth and Saraksh are post-nuclear war societies.


Or "The Blackout (Avanpost)", conception "even if 99,5-99,9% of population is dead, survivors should be able to fight and defend themselves and Moscow".

 
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